Finding Your Net Mirth: How Humor, Trust, and Community Can Transform HR

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Evolve Talent and HR Show. We're building the rooms where HR and talent leaders learn, connect, and evolve. I'm Anna Morgan, and this is the space where people-first leaders come for courageous conversations. Whether you're leading from the C-suite, emerging as a new voice, building community, or driving change within your organization, this show is for you. Every episode brings voices that are driving change in the HR and talent community. We're going to get into the strategies, conversations, and the strategies, and the strategies.

[00:00:30] And movements that matter. Because here's what we know. Every conversation matters. Every introduction, every shared experience, it creates momentum that extends far beyond the room. And that is the EVOLVE multiplier. When we collaborate, overcompete, when we connect with intention, the opportunities, the relationships, and the impact compound across our entire community. You've tuned into a podcast, but this is actually your connection to the entire EVOLVE ecosystem.

[00:01:00] New episodes come out weekly. Now it's your turn to EVOLVE. Welcome. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the show. I'm Anna Morgan, and I'm super excited today to have my friend Peter join us. Peter, what is the correct way to pronounce your lovely Irish last name? Because I don't want to get it wrong. As a woman married to an Irishman. So I'll let you educate us.

[00:01:27] Perfect. I go with what my family have traditionally done, which is feeling. There is space in the world for various other pads. I don't care for them necessarily, because when people say felon, I'm inside to say, hey, I beat those charges. Or felon is not succeeding. But yeah, felon. So felon good. Okay. And it's not like full on. Well, I do like Spanish desserts, but no.

[00:01:53] Same, same. Well, thank you. Thank you for being here. And just to give our listeners some context, you and I were complete strangers until we sat at the same table at a conference out in Las Vegas called Transform. And I believe that was back in 2024. Does that sound about right? That sounds exactly right. Yes. All right. So this was our third Transform this year, which I wouldn't miss it. It is an incredible event.

[00:02:20] And as the talent leader that is now in events, hat tip to all of them that plan that event, because it is well executed and massive and just full of great speakers like you that have stepped on stage and shared your expertise and your comedy and laughs for the community.

[00:02:41] So thank you for being part of that community. But yeah, so it all started around a lunch table and we became fast friends and kindred spirits over a little plushie that I was carrying around of my little mascot, Lily, the French bulldog. And I sent you off with that for your daughter after the first Transform. And I believe that plushie is alive and well today.

[00:03:07] Yes. Yes, that's the plushie. I mean, I felt a little bit bad because you were so generous and kind. I think you had a finite number of plushies. So getting was pretty special. And I said it was my daughter, which was true. But what I didn't divulge until later is that she wasn't six. She was at the time 60. Hey, teenagers love a good plushie too, right? Thank you for being so forgiving. Part of me felt like I pulled a fast one. But yeah, it was a beautiful plushie and a great conversation.

[00:03:35] And we were there with Jessica Winder, another Transform speaker. And yes, what they've done in a few short years with Transform is jaw-droppingly good. And the community building and just the culture of that conference is something else. They're definitely a group that I look up to. And I hope to have some more conversations.

[00:03:55] I would love to interview Samara and some of her team here one day as well. But yeah, there's a reason that we don't see new conferences just popping up left and right in the HR and talent space. Because it's an art and it's a beautiful thing to bring people together to connect, learn and elevate the world of work. But it ain't easy. Hats off. And to you as well.

[00:04:46] Hats off. Hats off. Hats off. I did that for 20 years, speedy go through the decades, including a little tour of duty in your neck of the woods down in Georgia in the Atlanta area. It's a lovely time, a year and a half. And then, yeah, I found my current home in New York City in Manhattan, where I'm proud to have two kids, the aforementioned 16-year-old, 19, and her brother, Micah, girl, is Ariel.

[00:05:16] The brother, Micah, is 21. And yeah, life is good. Career-wise, after the 20 years in-house HR, I went out on my own, kind of like a fellow solopreneur like yourself. Okay. And thank you. And initially, I did some culture projects for the first year, year and a half, because some of the companies I was with had this great track record of winning Best Places to Work awards, and Glassdoor this and Glassdoor that. So that was kind of like the natural beginning.

[00:05:43] And one client asked me to find them ahead of people. And of course, solopreneur, enthusiast that I was, they're like, is that service you provide? And I'm like, of course it is. I'm adding that to my product list now. Exactly. Dash to Google to search for a template, a service agreement, and quickly found one and sent one over. And now, 145 people and talent leader placements, that's the biggest part of my business. Still do an occasional culture project and still love those.

[00:06:13] But yeah, it's the placements of chief people officers, chief talent officers, total rewards. All right. That's what keeps the kids' college bills paid. That's amazing. Well, I mean, 145 people leaders is definitely respectable and commendable. You were also like HR's most watched comedian. I would say like, which gets you in more trouble?

[00:06:37] The fact that you placed 145 HR leaders and talent leaders or that you're the most watched HR comedian out there? You're very kind to mention that. They're quite synergistic, I think. And thankfully, fingers crossed, no trouble to speak of so far. But yeah, I have fun with this HR comedy stuff. That transforms. Tamara has been gracious enough to give me a stage there for the last few years, which is a ton of fun. And we're hoping to broaden that to not just me.

[00:07:07] I'd love to kind of be an open mic, which maybe we could put you on the spot and see if you have some funny content to share. Oh, gosh. I mean, on the spot, maybe not. Not here or now. Maybe a transform. Okay. Yes. Well, yeah. I have all kinds of ideas. We can certainly plant me in the audience, maybe. All right. I'll take that for now. So one of your taglines is like, what is your net mirth?

[00:07:35] And at first I was kind of like, huh? And so I want you to explain it yourself for our audience and then explain what does mirth have to do with HR and talent? Sure. So I think we only have one life to live and one career to go through. So it took me a while, but after 20 years at house, I was a chief people officer and I was kind of being bred a bit too thin. It was kind of like, it was a... Like many people leaders today? Oh my God. Even more so.

[00:08:05] Because this is 10 years ago. I can't imagine the personal pressures today. But still, I was like, I want more joy in my work. So I, step one was to pick the favorite 10% of my job and try and build a business on that for more than one company. And we talked a little bit about that already. And that gave also room for me to double down a little bit on something that had been there with the comedy.

[00:08:28] I had dabbled in things like taking a stand-up class and back in 20 years ago and really liked it and hit it off with the teacher who was an MC at a local club, Comic Strip Live on the Upper East Side. And he liked my work, so he'd give me spots where I wouldn't have a student in one of these classes. You have to bring your own crowd. That's how they make money. They bring the stuff. Yeah. But I was so good. I didn't get paid, but I got free soda and I got to take the mic without having to bring audience members. That was very... Oh, okay. Yeah.

[00:08:58] So I had it made in the shade. Then life gets busy and of course I was still doing the in-house job. So I didn't have a ton of time, but I'd seize opportunities for mirth when I would get them. So I did a column for employee benefit news for three years that was kind of like a humorous one. Other little things. So anyway, when I became a solopreneur, there was more time. And so I began to do more of this. Speaking at conferences, doing disrupt HR videos. And you mentioned the kind of most viewed thing. Yeah.

[00:09:27] I do impersonations on these disrupt HR videos. The kind of... The conceit is, I call them imposter syndrome videos. But because I'm very proud of HR, the extended conceit is that I do impersonations of popular celebrities or fictional characters attempting to do HR. Because all the other departments think they can do our job and then it's easy. In theory, it's so simple. But then, yeah, you step in and try to do it and let's see how you execute. Yes. Yeah. So I'm being all these characters, giving it a try. And they don't do well.

[00:09:56] They flounder because it's a hard job. But yeah, I guess the challenge because the disrupt HR format is five minutes, 20 off slides. So I do a little intro and then 19 impersonations in five minutes. So that was a challenge as well. And so they became popular. So there was a sequel, Imposter Syndrome 2, The Relapse. We'll do Imposter Syndrome 3 next year. It's a ton of fun. And it's all about building HR up.

[00:10:26] So it's never anti-HR jokes. I don't believe in that. We have another community, which now evolved, but we're building this little community, an open mic night called Funny HR People. But it's all very HR positive. We don't want to hear HR dissing. You can make fun of ourselves a little bit. We're not that precious that we can't make fun of ourselves. But no real slamming of HR because the job is hard enough. Let's support each other. 100%. Well, and then going back to like, what is your net mirth? Like, what is your net worth?

[00:10:55] And for other people that were like me where their words can be challenging, I was like, let me just make sure I understand what mirth means. And it's just joy, right? It's just laughter.

[00:11:05] And so what is your net laughter or mirth is a result of using these strategies, I'm understanding, to either help you secure those talent professionals or to help support you as you were evolving kind of in your career as a corporate and solopreneur. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think just having that element of mirth and joy is so important.

[00:11:33] Like life is too short to just be doing something that you don't like. I like being a chief people officer, but I thought of something I'd like more where I'd have more mirth. And that came in two forms. Doing the bits of the job, which weren't necessarily funny, but just my favorite bits of the job. And then the fact that it gave space to do some actual humor work. Which is like more of the creative side, the playful side, the embracing the inner child side.

[00:11:59] And I absolutely love these conversations in HR and talent because of my lived experience in like super corporate was like, we can't have any fun. All right. Like nobody wants to dress up like firefighters because they're just Debbie Downers. And I'm like, come on, easy and it's fun. Anyway, and so I'm like, let's have a little fun in the world of work. I mean, it's hard out there.

[00:12:26] And why not leverage humor and laughter and joy as a retention strategy, an engagement strategy, permission slip for your employees to be themselves. Like I think you've been in the same rooms I have where we hear the challenges HR and talent are dealing with. And it's masking and it's playing the political game.

[00:12:49] And while also balancing all the things outside of work and aging parents and struggling kids and all the things. So I really respect that you're bringing these tables or these conversations in a humorous way to our community. And in 2024, what Disrupt Talk, your first one, was the most watched across the United States. Is that right? Or even the world? Well, you're very kind. Yes. Even the world. I mean, how did that feel? I mean, it felt great.

[00:13:19] And it's like that it was something to just like let your shoulders, because things were pretty intense there. Let your shoulders relax. Let them descend a little bit. Yeah. I had other HR leaders in the New York Disrupt HR circles tell me, which was great, more valuable than the views, that it just gave them the confidence to do something a little bit silly in their own Disrupt HR talk. Like mine was 100% silly, all 20 slides.

[00:13:49] Whereas they might have had the serious topic that they were going to do this perfect corporate story arc in 20 slides. And then after I see mine, they're like, you know what, let me slip in three funny ones to just wake up the crowd. And that's finding your next mirth. And we definitely need more of that for sure. I did one Disrupt Talk out in Sioux Falls. And I mean, it was a labor of love. And so now you're headed into your third Disrupt Talk is what you said, right? Coming.

[00:14:19] Well, just on the imposter syndrome, I'm a bit of a Disrupt junkie. So this is 11th or 12th because I've done all. Yeah, I did one that was actually more popular than imposter syndrome because real business problems need to be solved as well. Imposter syndrome one and two are pure nonsense. But I did one on cultural desk back in 2017. That's, I don't know if it's the most viewed ever, but it certainly had like 46,000 views. Okay.

[00:14:46] A concept of like, almost like tech desk and where you're sloppy with the code, but it's fine. You'll fix it later, but you need something to look pretty for a client or for a partnership or VC tech. So cultural desk is accumulated in the same way, but instead of being sloppy with your code base, you're being sloppy with your people. But it's a whole lot harder to get out of cultural debt because notwithstanding AI, probably remembering things better than code did when I wrote this in 2017.

[00:15:14] People do still remember better than the dot ones and zeros. So the idea was to stay out of cultural debt. So yeah, I'm a junkie. I'm glad you've done it. I hope you'll do another one. Yes, I did. I did it on my journey being alcohol free coming up in recruiting.

[00:15:30] So it was all about recruiting to recovery and how organizations can become more aware of people with substance abuse and alcoholic challenges in their general population and how they can be more inclusive.

[00:15:45] And not using booze as a bonding strategy and show their people that there is support available and also make the support actual tools and resources that are valuable more than half a day out of the office or something like that. So more to come. This year, I shared the stage with another speaker and we talked about community building.

[00:16:09] So I am still stepping on stages if it is just my own to share my experience, strength and hope of sorts. So yeah. I'm sure there's plenty more to come on a variety of stuff. Yeah. And I would love to have, speaking of being creative and fun, and I'm kind of going off on a tangent, but any of us that have been in HR talent long enough, we have been in the rooms where.

[00:16:34] HR is talking crap about the recruiters and recruiters are talking trash about the HR and it's just a trash fest, right? And it's their fault and their fault. And I don't know about y'all, but I've worked in a wide variety of industries and sizes of companies and HR and talent looks totally different.

[00:16:54] Their function, their responsibility, all the things, which is why I also believe that HR and talent should be in the same rooms, learning together, connecting and collectively elevating the world of work because we understand each other. Like, let's stop griping about each other and let's get the job done, right? Yes. Which is probably a lot of some of your content, but in a favorable way.

[00:17:19] So with that, like, is there one particular joke that lands just with HR that doesn't land with other populations? Like, period. Is there a standout one? Well, there's a lot. These open mic nights, I'm going to give somebody else's joke because I like to elevate the brave performers. My buddy and I, a guy called Ashley Bendell from ADP, created this funny HR people thing.

[00:17:42] And so we have 50 or so people upstairs of a bar, but there's definitely plenty of room for non-alcoholic participation as well. But we don't lack volunteers because HR has an infinite supply of stories. We see the strangest human behavior in the organization. Sometimes we're the only one who get a full view of it. The only one that hears the create, and recruiters are like that too. I can't tell you the amount of candidates that I've held space for in a variety of ways.

[00:18:12] Oh, yes. Yes, yeah. I mean, humans are fascinating creatures. But this one woman got up on the bike bravely on her first night that she was there and had a recommendation for how to keep your job in corporate America when you're around the boardroom table. And some of the other operators in the room start voicing how we're going to save money. And, of course, the least human-centric of strategies, Slash and Bird, and her secret weapon was Botox.

[00:18:40] So they couldn't see the horror that was in her mind showing up in her face. So that was her career tip. And then the house just erupted. I love it. I love it. And that's where you talk about, like, humor differentiates, period. But I think it's more than that. Like, talk to me about humor as a trust accelerator.

[00:19:01] And I ask that because my own lived experience, like conferencing and being out in community, is either my ability to make someone laugh or feel good, that accelerator to all kinds of opportunities and connections. Yeah. And I'm fascinated by sort of the science of humor as well. And I had a whole webinar once on this very topic with a guy called Charles Green. And he's worked in professional services, which I did when I was in-house.

[00:19:29] I was in Madison Avenue, the ad biz, for about a decade. And a lot of the companies there... They were a madman. I was a madman. That was advertising for cigarettes like Dodd Draper or whatever. Back in the day, yeah. It was a little later. It was in the 2000s. But yeah, so this Charles company called Trusted Advisor. Okay. And the book behind it is called Trusted Advisor. It has a whole section about trustability, trustworthiness. And there's an equation.

[00:19:58] And it's very intuitive as to how you can be more trustworthy. So above the line, and there's kind of three factors that multiply. And one of which is your credibility. So that's like knowing your stuff, knowing your terminology, the lingo, the space. And then there's a couple of other factors. I'm not going to go into a whole detailed academic discussion on that. But just on the credibility one, I found, and Charles agreed, that the data bore this out, is that you can show your credibility in a field like HR.

[00:20:28] And like a woman who said that she needed Botox to keep her job so that her jaw and forehead and everything wouldn't betray her reaction to this other executive suggestion. As someone who lost her corporate face when she went back, I really resonate with her Botox comments. Everyone in the room could relate. And that immediately gave her this credibility that she knows what it's like to be in a tough boardroom setting.

[00:20:57] And there's millions of examples of just that, using humor to show that you get it. And to show that you're an insider on how things really work in the world of HR and how they really work in boardrooms. So with that one joke, all of a sudden, we're picturing her in the boardroom, not in her cubicle. She's already credible. And he did it with a joke. So yeah, I mean, humor, it shows you're smart. It shows you know your stuff. The fact that you know your fighter so well that your novice is still learning.

[00:21:27] No, you've got the mastery to joke about it. Right. I don't know. To me, the other thing that's coming up is like comedy or being able to read the room the right way is almost like real-time feedback. And it also signals if it's working or not, in my mind. But keep going. So you said the one thing was your credibility. Yeah, well, I'll stop there. In terms of the deep dive, I'll quickly cover the rest because that's a great equation for business.

[00:21:54] And I use this, but I'm not being funny just for strengthening relationships and being trustworthy. I'll give you an example in like 30 seconds of when it doesn't work. Okay. That was my next question. Yeah. And then there's reliability is the next factor. So that's simple enough. Humor isn't such a big factor there. It's like if I showed up to this webinar on time, it's like just meeting your commitments. That's the basics. By the deadline, you meet it. And then there's another one on the top line called intimacy.

[00:22:24] And that's a little bit more nebulous, but it's about feeling safe with somebody. So I can tell you, Anna, that's some of my vulnerabilities or whatever, knowing that you're going to use that information to help me versus weaponizing it against me. So it's like a safety thing. Then, but not all the equation, which reduces trustworthiness is self-interest. So, selfish factor.

[00:22:46] And the one thing I promised 30 seconds ago was when I took my last chief people officer job, I got a call on my first day, Anna, from a vendor who wanted me to use their services. And they had a lot of urgency about me signing that day. Now, meanwhile, I'm signing like new hire forms. I have other things to do that day. And it's a complicated legal contract. So I'm like, I don't want to bother the legal department on my first day with a tight debt to buy your services. I'm sorry. So I wouldn't do it.

[00:23:15] But they were pushing super hard. And I later found out from a colleague of theirs that there was a big sales contest. And they were going to get double the commission for any business that closed before the end of that month. Of course they were. Yeah, they were, of course. But they were compromising my trust building with my own new colleagues for their own needs. So trust went out the window. I didn't sign that day. I didn't sign ever. So yeah. You probably like blocked, deleted. Oh no. No thank you. Exactly. Yeah. So, but yeah.

[00:23:45] When one watching it for you, that kind of WIIF is turned up too loud, trust goes out the window. But that's the thing to watch. And then the three on top multiply each other. So the credibility, reliability, and the intimacy. It's such a cool equation. Yeah. And humor can accelerate it. 100%. And how I've come up like in my own journey of entrepreneurship, creating content for LinkedIn or social media.

[00:24:12] I was taught like be careful about being too witty or funny or using too many puns, right? Because with social media, we generalize and distort content. And that can make it hard to convey. But at least through your talks, those are recorded and a lot easier to consume.

[00:24:33] So you said you do a small amount of the culture work now, but more of it is really on the hunt for great people leaders, right? And is that from ICs to executives or are you only focused on C-suite, VP, and above? No, it's pretty broad. I mean, I stick with HR. That's my people and talent. Those are my people and my 33,000 LinkedIn connections. But yeah, not precious on level.

[00:25:01] It's encouraging for some viewers or listeners. Yeah. Fear that human beings are going out with the dinosaurs in terms of four of the last placements I've made were in recruiting. Our jobs out there for people who find people, not agents, actual human living, breathing human beings. And three of them were ICs and one of them was like a VP type level. So yeah, I hire everything from C-suite down to ICs. And the good is that recruiters are actually experiencing a little uptick.

[00:25:32] Yay! Let's go, let's go. So, I mean, whether it's a recruiter or HR professional, within that first 10 minutes of meeting this people leader, is there a golden thread of commonality that stands out to you? Or is that golden thread that has been a part of each of those person's stories or portfolio that has helped you create the result for them?

[00:25:55] Yeah, I mean, there are some common themes, which hopefully if someone's on the lookout now or down the road for a better thing, which may be helpful. They could do a whole other webinar just on this, but I'll give a few highlights. I think a lot of it is, Anna, about the match, meaning that I have 145 different placements. And of that, there are probably 120 different companies. Different companies, yeah. Hiring managers.

[00:26:20] So a lot of it is about the individual fit and the priorities in that business for the next 18 months. A lot of my clients value the fact that I am a former chief people officer and have their 20 priorities in the five-page JD. And I'll have the credibility, back to the trust equation, from having done it for a while, to sell, hey, let's get real here. Of those 20 key priorities for the next 18 months, the top four.

[00:26:48] Do they really have to be perfectly, infinitely knowledgeable at stock plans and learning and development and throwing parties or whatever? It's just a lot. I make them focus and then I'll go out to market for people who have those top four things. In terms of which person who has the top four things who gets the job, it'll be a function of how well they tell their story.

[00:27:14] So I love a good LinkedIn profile that has those bullet points with impact that situation X needed an intervention, problem statement, align the company on how to respond, and then got that lift in retention and recruiting. This may be with a nice percentage or a dollar sign. Measurable things. So everyone needs to be documenting their wins. Oh, yes. Let's just say it for those louder in the back because we've all had that moment.

[00:27:42] And if you haven't, God bless you, but you're blindsided and all of a sudden you don't have access to your inbox or all the things that you thought you were going to have data on. So when I was coaching job seekers in our space, which are talent and HR, I'm like, make a note to remind yourself each week to put that in an external Google Doc or somewhere that's outside of your network. So if or when you need it, you have it. Indeed. I don't know.

[00:28:11] I'll go on a little tangent of my own for a second. In your travels at Transform, have you come across Stephanie Murray, recruiting professional extraordinaire? Murray is a last name. I will glance down and double check why you tell me the story. Yeah. So she has a new app called RepVera. And it is a cool idea.

[00:28:31] Instead of the Google Doc, it's a place to put all of your wins and your references into a living, breathing, verified place that can carry you. Whether you're using Stephanie Murray's RepVera or just keeping your Google Doc up to date or your LinkedIn with those. Because I think your current employer shouldn't be offended if you are talking about excellent things that happened in your department and in your purview.

[00:28:59] So it's not disloyal to talk about your accomplishments while you're still employed there. You don't just have to have the company paragraph on, oh, this company makes these widgets and they're awesome. No, it can be about you as well. Yeah. So yeah, document those wins, track them, tout them. Because sadly, HR people aren't always the best for tooting their own horn. They're naturally sometimes just very helpful and they want to help others and just kind of facilitate. Yeah. Do not pass them the mic or shine the light on them.

[00:29:27] They are the problem solvers and the mama bears and papa bears taking care of everybody else. And I had a candidate say to me one time, he was like, I would rather stab myself in the thigh with a fork than talk about myself. And I was like, yeah, this is going to be fun. Yeah. Quite dirty, I'm sure. Hopefully you got the fork out of his hand. Yeah.

[00:29:53] But I understand the conundrum that HR and talent leaders are in with social media. Because I've had my own, well, my brand has served me and helped me and elevated me internally and externally. I have had a CHRO say to me, well, if everybody gets active on LinkedIn, then our competitors will see them and they'll try to steal them. And I just looked at her and I was like, that is a you problem.

[00:30:22] That is a culture problem. If you're scared because your people are going to be active on social, that they're going to get snatched up, then are you secretly really insecure that you're not meeting your associates needs? Amen. Yeah. I got the same question or concern a decade ago after one of my companies won something on Lastdoor. And an audience member at the awards gathering was like, yeah, what if they get too visible? I'm like, I think you kind of want that.

[00:30:52] You want this rising employees and then be sure to keep them happy. That's on you. Right. And I mean, and you have to trust, yeah, that you're doing the right thing as a people leader, that you're offering the right things to keep them engaged and loyal. And if the thought of them dipping their toe on being more visible on social gives you a panic attack, then there's more work to be done. Right. Yes. In that regard.

[00:31:18] I personally would love to see more senior talent and people leaders active on LinkedIn because, again, it just gives the company employer brand a story. It allows the employees to see what that VP or CHRO is talking about that maybe they don't get to step into their office and have some face time. And it deepens the relationship.

[00:31:43] And I can say that also from personal experience where people would walk by my cube and be like, I love what you're doing on LinkedIn. And I would be like, I didn't even know you were following me. So I think that's a good invitation for our listeners to keep your information updated. Again, track your wins wherever it makes sense for you.

[00:32:05] And then don't be afraid to share what you're doing, how you've done it and the results that you've received because that's what we're going to want to know anyway. It is. And in my placements, those who own their wins are the ones who have more confidence, who will interview better and get the offer. 145 people, say 120 plus clients.

[00:32:29] Is there in 2026 a commonality that clients are saying, I gotta have this? Or is a commonality that you're seeing among these placements so far? Yeah, I guess the usual sort of things of accomplishments. But the special sauce for 2026 is probably around just agility and nimbleness. So folks who are stepping in to the AI revolution in confident ways.

[00:32:58] And they don't have to have necessarily done that yet. Maybe their company is a bit of a slow adopter and they don't have great work stories. They might have great private life stories about their own agents or whatever. But as long as they've been through something really transformative, it doesn't have to be AI. It could be a really complex integration when the last company was acquired. It could be embracing the last revolution, be it crypto or whatever the case may be.

[00:33:24] Or a company going through a massive pivot and then leading the charge on that change management. So, yeah, not just confidence around their HR skill sets, but confidence around project managing massive change of some kind. And it doesn't have to be, oh, I did all this amazing AI stuff. That doesn't hurt. But just change in general is extra valuable right now.

[00:33:46] So would you say for a recruiter or HR business partner who wants to become a senior leader, like they should be focusing on change management stories around agility and transformation, building that now to be able to position themselves for that senior leadership role? Is there anything else? I do. I do. Well, you, again, the HR people who like to do other things and would rather stab themselves and talk about themselves. Maybe they don't have to talk about themselves with anybody else.

[00:34:16] But do reflect on your own career. Yeah. And maybe you've got some really big pivots that you helped lead and that you've put on your resume. Just like reflect the wild stories you've gone through, the mergers, the acquisitions, big life changes where you maybe moved halfway around the world, lawyer, and how did you adapt? Yes. Think about those through a fresh eyes document. And maybe you've already done the kind of transformation projects that will make you more hireable in 2026.

[00:34:45] And if you haven't and you have chances to lean into them, probably not alone, there'll be cross-functional projects where you get to have some fun with other forward-looking colleagues. Yeah. And see if you can build out the reputation for being brave that is really hot right now. Yeah, exactly. So when you're talking to HR and talent professionals, I know a lot of us have been in extended job search and are frustrated with the process, right?

[00:35:14] When you're talking to this community and they're venting and they're like, I just can't blah. Is there a fill in the blank in that particular sentence that there seems to be a commonality of just complete frustration with, period? Yeah, it's hard. And sadly, there isn't kind of a magic wand because I'll often talk to folks who have been part of extended searches and they're already doing the right things.

[00:35:41] They aren't just applying into the void and they're meeting contacts, they're using introductions, and they're getting to somebody good in that organization to get eyes on their resume. And they're doing all the smart stuff. What about learning and community and conferences? And how are they kind of prioritizing that while being like, I need to land this gig and get some money in my pocket? Right. Yeah.

[00:36:11] I mean, if somebody has done all the right things in their little office, their home office, and I'm like, okay, you're doing all the right things, but please do add the following to your schedule. Go to that conference, check out Evolve, go to Transform, go to a funny night, go to a Disrupt HR event. They're all over the country. There are 70 different chapters all over the world. Shout out to Jen McClure, who spoke at Evolve this past year, which is amazing. Oh, yeah.

[00:36:40] Reap the benefits of what Jen and Anna and others have built because you've got these communities and you may not go to one of these things and meet somebody who's going to offer you a job the next day or whatever, but you'll have a new contact, a new perspective. Yeah. A new pathway in your search. I think that never search alone is a good motto. Yes. I wholeheartedly endorse that message as someone who has built communities her whole life.

[00:37:08] From COVID, I started, we had the Job Connection Tuesdays or the Job Search Hotline, and it was a play on the old Silver Song called Hotline, Hotline. Oh, nice. I'll play it for you. And then we did nine months on Clubhouse every single week, having various experts come on and give advice to job seekers.

[00:37:28] And then we did almost two years of LinkedIn Ask a Recruiter, which where myself and several like gracious recruiters just held space for job seekers and answered questions. What better way to have active recruiters giving candidates and job seekers the real information compared to just the dystopian, sad information that many job seekers are getting out on the Internet and on LinkedIn and stuff like that. So I think community is important.

[00:37:58] And I'm always curious, like, how do HR and talent professionals decide where they're going and where they're investing in their recertification credits or their community so that they can feel less lonely? We have an epidemic of loneliness. More than half of the United States has reported feeling isolated and lonely. So it's time to get out there. But how do they determine that? And what does that number look like?

[00:38:26] Yeah, I mean, I haven't in my placement of all these folks, I haven't seen, and it could be partially a function of the fact that I work with them all. Okay, add this to your intake question, Peter, for Anna. How many continuing education events do you go to a year? Yes, exactly. I think, continuing, I was focusing on the certification part. I haven't had so many clients say, oh, they must be SHRM or HRCI certified, or they must have done World at Work, whatever.

[00:38:53] And maybe because I work with a lot of startups where they have wild and crazy HR departments, and it's like they don't worry too much about old school certifications. So my advice, I guess, to folks would be, yeah, if you happen to get a recertification credit for an event, great. It was actually really weird. I did a comedy event not too long ago, which was sheer nonsense. It was like a one-man show.

[00:39:18] I did all my impersonations, all the disrupt HR ones put together, 38 different impersonations, and then some storytelling in between. And somehow, that genius organization finagled recertification credits for that utter nonsense. How they did it, I'll never know. Because our partner, Workology, she is on it and really makes us give detailed descriptions, links, like what they're going to get all the day. They must have lied, but they got the credits.

[00:39:47] But yeah, I wouldn't worry so much about the credits. I would say get out of that basement and talk to other awesome HR peers. Yeah. You can every couple of weeks. It's easy for me. I live in Manhattan and there's so many events. I could go to something literally every night. Every night, probably. Yeah. I end up going to one or two things per week, which is great. It's just my visibility. But yeah, a couple of times a month, I think we'll just refill your cup. It's time well spent.

[00:40:15] Now, for you, your own experience being on the conference circuit, can you think of one particular unexpected connection that you met at a conference that was just no one that you had planned on, that was kind of serendipitous, that ended up just being a new BFF, a great client, the perfect candidate, or just had that surprising and delightful outcome that you never could have anticipated connecting those dots?

[00:40:42] I'm such a believer in community like you. I could probably rattle off 50 of those. I'd say 10 to 15 just from Transform. Awesome. And for listeners, in April of the Fontainebleau in 2007. And it's wonderful. Last year was like 4,000 people. I'm sure this year it'll be 5,000. And with the new spanky hotel. That's why we only saw each other once. Yeah. It's big, but still has nice culture. Oh, yeah.

[00:41:10] Yeah, but Transform alone has led to amazing clients, candidates, business partners, referral partners. That's just one conference. Yeah. And then it's what you do from a strategy standpoint, too. And this is a whole other podcast episode.

[00:41:29] But if you dedicate time and finances to elevating your own personal learning and being in community, I believe there's a strategy to working a conference. And some I've done really well and some I've done poorly where it's like, okay, I have a goal. I have some key people that I'd like to meet or have some touch points with as future speakers or podcast guests or potential sponsors, etc.

[00:41:56] Just going and expecting just to learn everything is one thing. But then how you actually execute and leverage all of those touch points is really critical as well. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I love some great content and always in some sessions they have transformed. But as an HR headhunter, I probably focus more on making sure that I get a sponsored meal, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Because the sponsors are there.

[00:42:25] They want to host you. And then it'll be in a group of 12, 15, 20 people where you do get to link in with them and you do get to make that connection. So yeah, definitely go in with a strategy about rekindling existing relationships like we do every year. Then nurturing brand new ones and use your time strategically. And that'll be different for every conference and for every person. But yeah, go in with a plan. Yeah.

[00:42:53] And I always tell people to like share that you're headed to that conference more than just once. So you get those inbound messages saying, oh my gosh, I'm going to like, I'm going to this breakfast or I've been invited to this lunch and just expands your influence within the conference like ecosystem. Because it's hard going solo if you're not with a team or if you're just getting out into the conference scene to understand how to navigate some of the nuances.

[00:43:23] And to simplify it, one, just let people know that you're coming and then seek out other community members or people that you've always wanted to connect with more deeply from that LinkedIn circle. And say, hey, like, let's get a coffee or let's meet in between sessions. They always say like the magic happens in the hallways. But as well, we try to keep the magic in the ballrooms and in the hallways. So anyway. I think it is both. Yeah, you're so right. Get the word out there.

[00:43:52] You'll see, you might not get an attendee list as a member of the public, but you will see the speakers. And maybe those are, you can ping them. Hey, LinkedIn. LinkedIn. And then when you do get word out there by posting that you're going, you know the vendors are going to start advising you to things. Even if you don't want to buy ATSX or Learning Platform Y, don't just say, oh, annoying vendor. Maybe say yes, because you'll end up around a table with a dozen peers.

[00:44:19] And maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised that the vendor is worth a look. But if nothing else, you're going to make a bunch of new peer connections. And again, that's also how you manage that dinner. And I have other strong opinions about how post-conference activations are done well or okay, in my opinion. So we're coming close to time. So I want to be conscientious of that. So a couple of little rapid fire questions and then we can wrap up.

[00:44:48] So what is the best celebrity impression you do? And why do you think it's the best one? Brian, you really are the worst type of person. People love their Stewie Griffin, but they also are often surprised by the classics, the Star Wars. So Stewie there was doing performance feedback to Brian in case that wasn't obvious. And the Emperor Palpatine has been known to try his hat or his sparky hands. L&D.

[00:45:16] So much like young Skywalker, your training is there complete. Yes. Survey at the end. It's out of the Empire. Search you better. I love it. I love it. And I always think about how brave you are, Peter, when you're up on stage. And as not a lifetime trained comedian, someone who took a couple of classes, that has a background in traditionally boring HR.

[00:45:46] Like just the way that you have evolved to where you are today is amazing. So, all right. What is the most overused word in HR? Go. I'm not a huge fan of intentionality these days. I'm old school. I want everything to be intentional. So, the fact that something has to be called out, oh, let's be intentional about this thing. No, it should all be intentional. Nothing should be random. Yeah. So, I have a little bit of a beef with intentionality.

[00:46:14] For me, everything being intentional is table stakes. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. One benefit every company should offer, but they don't. There's so many. I used to do benefits for a living. I could be a whole other webinar. I think sometimes bereavement leave is sadly underserved. I think that's perfect. Done. Hey, look at your bereavement leave policy. And then look at your substance abuse policy. Amen. Amen. Yeah. So, what's next for funny people and for you?

[00:46:43] And I'm hoping that we can figure out some kind of connection or set for Evolve in the future. And Evolve is happening probably fall of 27. So, we've had enough of January. And with senior kid graduating, can't do spring in the middle of it. So, Atlanta's lovely. And sometime between September and December. It's not too hot. You're past the summer heat. So, count me in. Yeah.

[00:47:13] Maybe we'll take funny to connect the two. Maybe we'll take funny on the road. Yeah. Bring funny people on the road. Let's go. There's some good talent. And good talent that funny HR people down in Atlanta, I know from experience having lived there briefly. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. In the meantime, funnyhrpeople.com is the website. Mostly New York-centric for now. But, yeah. We want to travel. We want to have some fun on the road. Yeah. And it's the way to go. Yeah. Let's bring more mirth to more people. Every day. Mirth count.

[00:47:42] Yes. Yes. Exactly. Well, this has been so fun. I can't thank you enough for the work that you're doing and for the belly laughs and chuckles that you are creating. Whether it's at a big stage at somewhere like Transform or in your local community, it is something that's more powerful and potent than we probably actually realize.

[00:48:04] Tying back into the loneliness epidemic that we're all faced with, this type of content and having a leader like you that shows up like they do is so hugely important. So thank you for being here today. My pleasure. Thank you for having me, Anna, community builder and supporter of the cause and the people. Yes. Until next time, keep evolving. Tune in. Definitely subscribe. Let us know what you think.

[00:48:31] And if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to reach out. But we will list Peter's Disrupt Talks below, other names that were mentioned, and ways that you can follow and get involved with him and his community as well. So that is a wrap. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for joining the Evolve Talent and HR show. If the conversation landed, share it. Tell it later. Pass it forward. That is the multiplier in action. One connection at a time, building momentum across our community.

[00:49:01] And that is what Evolve is. We build the rooms where connection compounds into impact. So don't sleep on the in-person experiences, the IRL conferences, the executive tables, the fringe events, our community. Show up. That's where the multiplier multiplies. If you know, you know. Head over to evolve-conference.com to see what's evolving and how to stay connected. We'll see you next time. We'll see you next time.