Powered by the WRKdefined Podcast Network.
[00:00:00] Vlog Talk Radio November 18th, 2020. My parents' anniversary. Anyway, my friend. I'm going to talk about my friend today. Actually, I'm not going to talk about my friend. I'm going to talk about his cousin in New York City. She's got a
[00:00:42] daughter in her early 1920s. Hey, I better turn off the music on YouTube. Sorry, everybody. Just one second. Let me get rid of that. You're losing the... Hold on. Just let me go.
[00:00:53] 30 seconds in and you've lost half the crowd, dude. Okay, yeah. There's not such a big crowd to lose. Anyway, okay, hold on. My friend's got a cousin in New York City. She's got a daughter who's in
[00:01:05] early 1920s. She went for a job interview a few weeks ago in person, face to face with two people who were not wearing masks. Okay? Now this young woman, her mother and her father have all tested
[00:01:26] positive for COVID-19, right? Now I consider that hiring process to be outrageous. Okay? I'm mad. Some people don't believe that masks are effective, okay? Because regions in which masks are mandatory, like here where I am, we're still supposedly experiencing a surge of COVID cases right now.
[00:01:50] But after what New York has been through this year, it doesn't... Well, I... Doesn't it make sense? Let me ask. Doesn't it make sense just to be on the safe side and conduct your interviews over Zoom?
[00:02:03] And if you absolutely have to be face to face, wear a mask! Okay? Maybe this woman needs a job, this young woman. I don't know. But I don't know if I want to go to work for a company
[00:02:15] that acts like this. In fact, right now you can tell I have to control myself swearing. I have to control myself from swearing because I'm talking about it on... We're shooting animal!
[00:02:46] Animal? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I'm going to do a quick thank you for my sponsors. Staffingdebt.com. Staffingdebt.com. If you are an agency recruiter and one of your clients is cheating you, these guys specialize in dealing with recruiters and doing collections
[00:03:13] for them and all that stuff. They've also got backdoorhires.com. Apparently this software can detect when your former clients have hired someone behind your back without paying you. Okay? Staffingdebt.com. PCrecruiter.net. The Swiss Army knife of recruiting software.
[00:03:34] Honit. H-O-N-E-I-T.com. The online interview technology and finally, hire tool. H-I-R-E-T-U-A-L.com. The super duper sourcing tool. I'll tell you more about those things later. Jerry, somebody remind me to build these people okay? I'm not doing these ads every week and I never get any money.
[00:04:01] Okay? It's time for a shakedown animal. You Canadians are too nice. Let's go beat some people up here. Yeah. Yeah. I'm ready. Where do we have to go? And you know what? We can wear masks and no one
[00:04:16] will know who we are when we do it. Oh, true. Okay. Somebody, we got a guest today that I'd never heard of to tell you the truth before she volunteered for the show. I think she's new on the scene.
[00:04:27] Fairly new. But I was talking to her before the show. It sounds like she's going to be interesting. Her name is H-E-N-N-A prior. P-R-Y-O-R. Okay? Her middle name is merchant. Kind of. But H-E-N-N-A prior and I told her before the show, one of my grandmothers was named Hannah,
[00:04:48] but we won't get into that right now. Okay? I am going to introduce her. This is what she said on one of the Facebook groups. She's a recruiting coach. She was making tons of money as a recruiter.
[00:05:01] Okay? Tons. She likes to brag about it. I copied all her bragging down. Nice. Well, I'll start with her biggest brag. Okay? Here's what she says. I worked 830 to 330 with a one hour gym break daily, took six weeks of vacation and billed almost a million dollars in direct
[00:05:21] higher revenue in 2017. It absolutely can be done. Okay? And she says, a big part of the reason I switched out of running a desk full time and moving into coaching was I hate the way most
[00:05:35] leaders teach people how to do this business. It makes no sense and it's ineffective. Have I represented you properly, Hannah? You believe what I just said, right? Hell yeah. Hell yeah. And can I also add, it's not bragging if you've done it. Okay? Okay. So plug your business
[00:05:55] now. Plug your coaching. Now's your chance. Go ahead. Okay. No intro. I'll go right into it. So, you know, one of many people who's probably made this pivot but after 14 years in the industry and
[00:06:06] having results that were hard to beat, I decided I wanted to play a bigger game. I could keep, you know, staying in the industry and making the money but feeling like I had hit a capacity
[00:06:16] of what I could do or I could play a bigger game and I went and got executive coach certified. And so half of my business is doing that. But one of the things that became glaringly
[00:06:26] evident is that no one is teaching folks and staffing the art of written psychology or in other words sales messaging. And so what I do now is work with staffing firms largely and internal
[00:06:39] talent acquisition on dialing up and fixing their sales messaging. Okay. Okay. Let me cut you short. Okay. So what you're saying is this is how you should have started off. I've done 14 years
[00:06:51] of billing like close to a million dollars a year. Okay. Like he's right. What he said about me. Okay. But now I've moved into coaching and recruiters and my focus is on messaging. That's what you're telling us. Is that right or wrong? That's right. That's correct.
[00:07:09] Mind if I just clarify, just dumb it down a little bit for the audience like me. Sure. Okay. So there you were plugging away billing a million dollars a year and you decided that you just couldn't stand the way other people were being trained in recruiting.
[00:07:30] So you abandoned a million dollars a year to go help people who are half a day gosh darn it. They weren't being taught the job the way you thought they should be. That's very noble. Well, thank you. I wouldn't say fight like that. I wouldn't say I abandoned.
[00:07:47] You know, there's a point when listen humbly how much money does a person need? It wasn't about the money anymore. I wanted to let a million a year. Let's say not how much you need. I bet never did that set the sweet ring to it.
[00:08:01] I don't know. Yeah, yeah. You're a very realistic person then. Well, thank you. And frankly, you know, I was working for a two billion dollar company. So I don't want to be naive and tell you that
[00:08:14] had nothing to do with it. There's something very alluring about being in business for myself. So it was time to do it my way. And so one of the things that happened was, you know, I decided to do this but do it on my own.
[00:08:27] Okay, you know, we used to sing at the beginning of the show and you just said my way. If you want to do it, you know, I'm ready. I haven't done my vocal exercises this morning, but I'll let you take the lead if you really want to.
[00:08:42] Okay. Well, what's your website before we get into the show? Well, prioritygroup.com, P-R-Y-O-R-I-T-Y. Bad. Bad. If you're going to say priority, I mean, it's witty that you're using a pun on your name. Play on words. You'll like it. You'll learn to love it.
[00:08:58] If you go to a party, just I like to give advice. Okay? If you go to a party and you say priority group, that's easy to remember. But then you've got a funky spelling. That's stupid. I'm going to tell you, that's bad messaging. Okay?
[00:09:11] I'll tell you what, nobody needs to remember my website because there's no other henna priors. They just find me that way. When you have a memorable name, you don't need a memorable website. There's something so funny. It's not common. No one can, it's not memorable.
[00:09:25] Go ahead, Jerry. Were you going to, sorry, I told you I was going to criticize you. Yeah, no, that's fine. There's something just so oddly funny about a guy who never leaves his home giving a very successful person tips on how to introduce herself at a party.
[00:09:41] All right. Well, here's something. Here's something you'll see, Michael. I've got my recruiting animal. I was going to tell you before the show, my name is recruiting animal. You're on this show. Okay. Get that straight. You got to play the game.
[00:09:56] I was expecting it. My other site is going to be recruiterscopyclinic.com, but it's under development. So I didn't want to give you the one that's not done yet, but that one's easier to remember. Even worse. Yes. Good for you. Okay. Good for you. Okay.
[00:10:12] Okay. So I didn't realize you're all messaging. So I thought you were giving all kinds of recruiting advice, but we're talking about messaging, right? Mostly. You've got a lot to say about the phone
[00:10:23] and email. And so method of first contact. You say the phone is dead. Is that right? I've never said the phone is dead. I've never used the words the phone is dead. The phone is no longer the preferred first step in the sales cycle for most people
[00:10:40] in America and probably, you know, in Canada, you can tell me in 2020 and beyond. That is just not how we communicate anymore. Correct. You said, hold on, hold on. She said smiling and dialing doesn't work anymore. No one picks up their phone.
[00:10:56] Okay. That's correct. I elaborate from I went to correct your end. Did you want to say something? That doesn't mean the phone is dead. That means getting initial contact and beginning a relationship strictly via smiling and dialing is dead. Okay. So what's the first method of contact?
[00:11:15] The first method of contact has to be some sort of simultaneous, you know, you can leave a voicemail. I'm not saying that that's the devil, but most people are going to read their email before they listen to their voicemail. Most people are going to read your
[00:11:28] email and decide whether or not they're going to call you back based on your email. So I don't think it's either or it's both, but most people spend all this time leaving a great voicemail and their email says, Hey, left you a voicemail. Okay. Thanks.
[00:11:46] Glad to know that the email is not doing any work and that's where the emphasis needs to go in 2020 and beyond. Anybody want to interrupt the now before I continue? Anybody? Lots of people on the line. Anybody want to talk? Okay. So but you say,
[00:12:01] it's okay. You just said your email is your primary method, but you also say you only take five minutes to write an email. Lots of people say, Hey, if I'm going to depend on email,
[00:12:12] I got to spend a half an hour researching the target and then tell them that I like to eat the same brand of potato chips that he does and all kinds of stuff like that. Okay. What do you
[00:12:23] say about that stuff? Correct. Yeah. But you should still be doing that and still taking five minutes. And the reason is a lot of the work that comes into good messaging is done upfront. You do this ideal client avatar work and this research and the understanding
[00:12:38] your prospect work upfront so that you can build your own proprietary library of templates that sound like you that then come email time, you're just tweaking, which takes less than five minutes. So correct. Hold on a second. Wait, let me clarify something. Are we talking about business
[00:12:55] development emails or recruiting? Or recruiting emails and anything in our business, all of them. Okay. What's going to go in the subject line of a business development email? There's a million things, but I'll tell you what needs to happen in the subject line is
[00:13:12] first foremost and singularly it needs to make people curious. So they open the damn email and read the rest. So like with something like you are see Tiger Woods X wife now or something like that. You'll never believe what Marsha Brady is doing now. I mean
[00:13:34] stuff like that, like clickbait. You're being facetious, but you're not crazy. You'd open that. Nope. Yeah. Okay. Let's say I actually like it. Hold on. I see that stuff too. And I think so it could you actually put that in the subject line, Hannah and then put,
[00:13:54] you know, give the pictures of what she looks like, but also your recruiting message. Could you do it? Or I mean, you would just want an example. What? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So in a recent, a recent message that I went through with one of my
[00:14:07] students, we had this subject line as dream candidate equals cold lunch. Like what, you know, curiosity, right? What is she talking about? What is this about? And literally when you get into the message, you start talking about, you know, Hey, Mr. Client,
[00:14:21] I literally am letting my lunch go cold because I just met the dream candidate for the profile he told me about last week. Okay. But that email got opened. That email didn't get ignored. That person said, what's this person talking about? Right. Or you won't believe what this
[00:14:35] hiring manager said. The brain wants to know, well, what did they say? So Jerry wasn't far from the truth. Jerry was being facetious, but he's not crazy. He sees onto something there. I'm on to all kinds of stuff, but I can't really share it with the world for
[00:14:53] I got a suggestion for you. No, no, you told us everything I say you told us you deny, but you place a lot of legacy contractors and those are middle age people. And you say,
[00:15:06] you could put in there, you won't believe the great job this old man is doing something like that, right? Then a picture of the death. What about something like that? I don't know. I keep trying animal, keep trying, but no, I don't know if this is a legacy,
[00:15:22] you know, different generation person, you're not going to put in there. Carol Baskin did it. Do you agree? You know, they don't, they're not going to resonate with that. You know your audience, but you can still use formulas and patterns around
[00:15:34] what evokes curiosity. I think we all know Carol Baskin did it. It doesn't matter how old you are, my daughter knows my mother-in-law knows. We all know. Sure. But the point is, you know your audience. You tailor the psychology to your audience,
[00:15:53] but it still works. Okay. Well, you know what? This is a bit different. I mean, lots of people have told us they use email, but no, there was one guy on a few years ago,
[00:16:03] and he said he researched a candidate that no one else could get, and he found out that this guy liked from his blog Flaming Hot Cheetos. And the recruiter liked them too. So he sent an email
[00:16:16] and the head, that said subject was Flaming Hot Cheetos. And that's what he talked about, and he placed that guy. The guy replied, but nobody else has ever endorsed clearly far out subject lines. And you are endorsing them. Is that right? Do I understand you correctly?
[00:16:35] I'm endorsing subject lines that are different. Yeah, far out is a matter of interpretation. If it's a, you know, a certain generation of candidate, they'll appreciate that. If it's not, they'll, you know, they'll want something different. Well, I consider what Jerry was saying, far
[00:16:48] out, but I never thought of doing that myself and I like it. Okay. I mean, if you want to be like everyone else, if you want to be a sheep, go ahead and put new
[00:16:56] opportunity in the subject line. But in 2020, attention is a currency. You need to be able to stop someone dead in their tracks. People are checking their email in a hypnotic state.
[00:17:07] Do you want them to open your email? You can have the best candidate. You can have the best job order. But if no one's opening your email, guess what? It doesn't matter. Nobody cares.
[00:17:16] So you don't have to look really respectable like you're a lawyer or something like that, right? No, I know you still have to be respectable. You do not need to be stiff and robotic. There's two different things. You don't need to be trashy animal.
[00:17:30] Oh, come on, Fergie. You're talking about what Marshall Brady looks like now. I mean, that's not exactly classy, Jerry. Come on. Hey, well, I didn't send that dude. Okay, well, I was giving an example. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, send me money. Yeah, send me $50. That's worth $50, isn't it?
[00:17:54] Well, you know what? Hold on a second, Hannah. So you have a copywriting course. You don't just do person-to-person coaching. You actually have a course that people can take. Am I right about
[00:18:04] that? Correct. Yep, I have a training. You want to tell us how much it costs? So you want to talk money here or not? I don't care. Yeah, I mean, so usually I do it with teams. So really
[00:18:15] depends if it's an individual taking it or if it's a team taking it. But my pricing is likely to change for 2021. But right now for a team up to five people, it's $5,500, which I'm told by Danny
[00:18:25] Cahill is still way too cheap. So I'll probably go up next year. But that's how much it is for a team up to five. And then it changes depending on the size of the team up to that. I've got
[00:18:35] a team of 1,000 people doing it in a few weeks. And I'm putting together a quote for them, which is obviously going to be much more than that. Animal, I have to go. I have to interject here.
[00:18:42] I've got to start a new business right now. So I don't know if I can even finish this call. I just had an idea of how to make a lot of money. Well, just hold on for a little while longer.
[00:18:55] Usually last half the show. Okay? So hold on. Hannah, is Danny one of your mentors? Danny is somebody that I cold emailed maybe two months ago. So if you don't believe me on practicing what I preach, he responded right away, got on the phone with me, said,
[00:19:12] I love this. He asked me to be on his podcast and then he took my training program, paid for it, took it. And this is Danny, like the Michael Phelps of staffing. He took my training and has now been
[00:19:23] telling everyone about it, which has been pretty exciting, which is why- What was the subject line in your email to Danny? God, I don't remember. I have to look it up. Something that was curiosity inducing.
[00:19:35] I'm going to say that I saw him speak a couple of times a zillion years ago when he didn't have gray hair. And he likes pretty girls, okay? I just have to mention, at least that was my impression.
[00:19:45] What he used to complain about is ex-wife. Okay. So maybe I'm just extrapolating incorrectly. Sorry, Danny. I take it back. Maybe I'll edit the show. Okay. Listen, his preference of the side. He doesn't endorse many people. So you obviously know
[00:20:01] there's something there. If he endorses something that's not his training. So I'll leave it there. Okay. Okay. I want to talk about Honit. H-O-N-E-I-T dot com. Honit is online interview technology. You and your candidate call in to the same website. It tapes the call. It transcribes it into
[00:20:21] searchable text. It also, if you want, you can- It'll record it, video. I mean, it does everything. If there's an important question, you press a button before you get to that conversation. You talk about it with the candidate. You press a button when that portion
[00:20:36] of the conversation is over. It creates a little clip. You could send to the hiring manager. She can hear the sizzle, the enthusiasm and all the details of what the candidate is talking about. Okay. So that's Honit. H-O-N-E-I-T dot com. Okay. So that's the same principle that you're
[00:20:57] creating a message for the hiring manager that works. Our guest today, Hena says, I'm going to quote her. She says, most recruiters don't know how to maximize conversations and write effective messaging that converts and starts a real dialogue. Leaders are still teaching the old tricks
[00:21:16] from 20 years ago and it's so stale. You don't pull any punches, Hena, do you? Nope. Sure don't. Why? Why boy about her? Okay. What does that mean, old tricks from 20 years ago that are so stale? What do you-
[00:21:30] what do you got in mind there? Sure. I'll give you the biggest example. The biggest offender is 90% of recruiters and BD professionals start their email with, hi so and so, I'm John Smith from XYZ Staffing Firm. I have four years of experience doing permanent placement for
[00:21:48] IT, blah blah blah. No one cares, no one asked. Nobody wants to know all this stuff about you yet. It's 2020. We are feeling lonelier and disconnected more than ever. They want to know what's in
[00:22:02] it for them. Why are we blathering on about our credentials and our credibility as though it matters right off of that. It doesn't. It needs to go way further down in the message
[00:22:13] and people are still doing this all the time and so it's this outdated thing that we need to lead with this in order to be credible when really the reality is what people need to
[00:22:22] put in their messaging is not only the right information but the language that's going to hit the right emotional mark. Yeah okay so hold on, what comes up front? What is it then? I understand someone putting their credentials there. What do you want to see instead?
[00:22:37] A connection point, the very first few sentences need to convey the idea I understand you. I've done my due diligence. I know what's going on with you and your business and your industry.
[00:22:47] Now give me an example of that. Give me an example of that okay? Sure okay so let's say go ahead. Okay so it's November. Let's let's say in my world I was finance and accounting.
[00:22:58] Let's say you're prospecting a director of SEC reporting because you've done five minutes of legwork. You know that for SEC reporting they're about to enter the point in the year where they're going to start worrying about their 10k and things are going to get very busy
[00:23:12] and they're going to start working very long hours. Leading from a place of you know hey Mr. Hiring Manager I know you're about to jump into 10k season and probably have about five minutes between sips of coffee that you're reading this so I'm going to keep
[00:23:27] it quick and then the message would acknowledge that fact that this person has no time. Don't go on with your drivel about your processes and your database they don't care like you need to prove
[00:23:38] that you understand what they're going through and come from that place. Okay hold on a second let's hold on. Hold on. Jerry's still on the line. He places IT developers on contract okay?
[00:23:52] And so okay so what's he going to say to open up because you know he seems to like saying that you know he I well maybe he could say this you know if it's off offbeat like listen pal I've been in
[00:24:05] this business since you were in diapers okay could he start off like that? I don't like the idea of starting off like that. I think you could put that in the email later on. I think
[00:24:14] that's a great way to show that you're the real deal but I wouldn't start off like that. How could you start off? And neither would I by the way Hannah. I'm even though animal might use my
[00:24:27] name associated with a ridiculous example I'm smarter than that. Okay so thank you animal for the opportunity. Jerry what to these IT developers that if we're talking candidate side what's going on with them are they in high demand are they you know struggling to find good
[00:24:45] opportunities? Yes always always I mean it's always something current case I'm working with a company that it took me about a month to get anyone on the phone the phone is a waste of time so laying groundwork all around the place finally I was able to
[00:25:07] get them to acknowledge my existence two days ago and I have them on the phone with two very qualified candidates however what I said was I know that the person that you're looking for is extremely rare. I then listed the history of the software that they're using
[00:25:26] three generations of ownership ago this this software has been around for 30 years it's changed names four times I've placed people with that software each decade so I said I'm perfectly able to help you and I see these other five agencies are all
[00:25:43] sharing your same ride up all over the place. Yeah no no no perfect they call me and they're on the phone with my two candidates already. Well you brought up a great point you know when Michael
[00:25:53] says what else needs to be in that email you know you don't lead with this but anytime people have case studies or testimonials it boggles my mind how little people use them your best sales
[00:26:06] person isn't you let other people talk about you let other people be the reason that a client says this person knows what they're talking about so talk about you you did it exactly right talk about
[00:26:17] all the people that you've placed with this software skill set put a quote of one of your previous clients that you placed somebody like this with at the bottom of your email your best
[00:26:25] sales person isn't you I mean you've got to build that stuff into it. Okay Jerry says what did you make 30 calls did you say or how many times did you pursue these people chair?
[00:26:36] Oh it's been uh it's been going on for a month. Okay how many phone calls did you make so you were leaving voicemail that would you? I'm gonna say I've let me think here I not as many phone
[00:26:52] calls as a combination of I've texted two different people in there I've linked in you messaged connected with tried to anyway left voicemail emailed all with pretty much the same
[00:27:06] message I know exactly what you guys are trying to do and I can help I've been doing it for 30 years I really all I could say I didn't talk about Cheetos or Marsha Brady or any of that stuff it
[00:27:20] was simply very clearly and concisely I can handle what you guys are doing. A man enough for you okay yeah it would have been great if it was a woman uh a hiring manager I'm man enough for you
[00:27:35] boy oh boy yeah that's my yeah that's my specialty sexism that brings up another question how hard now I admire Jerry what Jerry did but how long should you pursue someone now
[00:27:48] there's some people say don't don't bug people uh you know you don't become a pest he had to become a pest before he got a response what's the story there and let me let me just interject animal let
[00:27:59] me just add I've decided that that is at the moment the only way you're ever going to get any new opportunities for new business. I have a hard time getting customers on the phone
[00:28:13] people are not interested in meeting new people right now you have to pound them and I that's that's exactly what I did with this company it's been a month. Yes and no okay I can't say that I
[00:28:25] totally agree with that you're going to have to pound them if you're to your own admission just now sending the same email six times in a row trying to get their attention yes if you're
[00:28:35] doing that you're going to have to pound them I would say if that first email didn't work switch strategies and try something else in hopes that the next one actually catches their
[00:28:44] attention if you do that hopefully you won't have to pound the same people over and over I would say you got lucky in that they got back to you and they finally recognized your worth but most of the
[00:28:54] people I talked to that are pestering the same people following up on their email five six times they get a response but usually the responses stop like bug off. Clearly we're not interested so yeah is that an example? Let me let me also clarify I certainly wasn't
[00:29:11] copying and pasting the same email but can I just clarify? Can I guess if there was a judge following up in there somewhere? Probably not I think that's uh that's fair I don't state the obvious when I'm good for you because I really don't I just
[00:29:27] don't that's well I appreciate it and there was no mention of hope you're safe trying time unprecedented unprecedented time yeah I do consider myself somewhat of a gifted word Smith
[00:29:43] good so I I do change it up and I think that that's really a key to anything that we're doing right now you can't use the same word you can't use the words the last people used or the
[00:29:54] next it's all you know I have friends that are candidates or employees at one time or another they they'll send me their a snapshot of their inbox that they use for their resumes you know most of these people don't use their real email address on their resume so
[00:30:15] they'll take a snapshot it's all the same every single one very few deviated all 90% of all the email cities candidates look exactly the same yep it's you're right you're right yeah people
[00:30:28] people really try to be safe and they try to be liked and I am screaming from the rooftops in this noisy overcrowded attention deficit market stop worrying about being liked and being safe worry about being different stand out that's the only thing that's going to get
[00:30:49] the needle moving for you truly okay I'm going to do an ad okay for pcrecruiter.net pcrecruiter is recruiting software and the thing about it is it's very versatile you customize it to suit your own
[00:31:06] workflow they don't impose anything on you okay and if you're too scared of technology to configure it yourself if that word configure makes you shiver they're happy to help you
[00:31:18] they want to help you if you're a recruiter they love you and big or small they help them all from your kitchen table recruiter or you're working in your mom's basement or if you're in a big tower in new york interviewing people without wearing a mask okay
[00:31:36] they will still help you check them out pcrecruiter.net why do you keep doing these ads if you never send them a I am going to send them a bill okay I'm gonna have to discount them when okay no seriously when
[00:31:53] when I told you to start bugging me and I will do it but I won't I don't need to bug you let's let's handle this right now when are you sending the end of the show's over okay as soon as the show's
[00:32:06] over today yeah today okay yes put all of them yeah okay sorry okay sorry about that Hannah hold on a second Kelly didn't mean to steal your time oh Kelly talent talks is still one of the people who
[00:32:21] comments on twitter and she says really digging digging she's cool really digging your guest Hannah Pryor today she makes sense and gets it okay there you go I want to give out a shout out to
[00:32:35] Graham Caulfield the expert at expert resume man okay he's also a regular twitter follower he's maybe even on the line he calls in and never says anything he's got an Australian accent
[00:32:47] he's kind of shy about that okay Michael G Cox haven't heard from you do you want to say anything because I think uh she's probably contradicted you some of your beliefs that's my guess
[00:32:58] anything Michael G Cox no no I haven't had any problems with what she said at all what what belief do you think she contradicted well I for some reason I've got the impression that
[00:33:09] you send those uh those standard emails okay uh I might be wrong okay no no you're probably wrong okay good what an aculation animal that's a slap in the face it wasn't it I'm not sure that's stupid
[00:33:27] none of us are that stupid come on okay okay okay I I believe that uh okay I'm gonna be you have to pester people and you know I find it's true you know you you call people five times they get
[00:33:41] back here and they don't like you but so what okay uh what about this no what about this Hannah if you um if people say if you're not pissing people off you're not doing a good
[00:33:52] job as a recruiter what do you what do you say to that no I think that's extreme I think if you're going to be that annoying then find a new job this is a people business it's a service business
[00:34:02] but I do agree with this idea of you know not worrying about so much about being liked and spending more time and being different I did hear saying maybe this is a more subtle way of
[00:34:12] saying what you just said but I like this idea that love me hate me there's no money in the middle right if you're worried so much about being generic and safe and pleasing everyone you please no one
[00:34:24] because no one sees you so it's more important to be different and rise above the noise than it is to be liked I don't I don't think you need to be a jerk but I don't think you need to spend your
[00:34:34] entire day trying to make everyone happy because I read a statistic 25 percent of people aren't going to like you no matter what you say no matter what you do so why are you worrying so
[00:34:42] much about using language that's going to please everyone on your social media and your emails it's not going to happen no matter how hard you try so you may as well spend a little bit of that
[00:34:51] extra energy trying to come across as different so that you're memorable you're not forgettable and you actually have a chance of getting a response okay let me ask you something did
[00:35:00] you just make that up or did you just add a quote uh no I read it I have it written down I'll give you a source it was something one of the marketing books I read hold on I'll give you a
[00:35:10] source on it Bobby Kennedy love me what was it love me like that one I heard somewhere I don't know who said who said I want to hear it again say it again it's good say it again love me hate me
[00:35:21] there's no money in the middle okay do you like that cherry cherry so I know I'm not gone there's no money in the hate I'm tired I'm tired of taking this from you I'm sitting I'm
[00:35:33] involved in this conversation dude yeah okay okay okay I like it here's what is the assumption that there is hate that there's money in the hate side of this as well no the assumption is that you need
[00:35:48] to stand out the assumption is that there's no money in mediocrity there's no money in trying to please everyone yeah Michael C. Cox I'm surprised he's got to explain that to you let them hate
[00:35:59] you let them be uninterested but the only chance of you of connecting with anybody is if you you know do something that might be considered extreme by some and a little off base biophones okay and then
[00:36:13] what's one of those things you're not really split don't think too deeply about it just yeah I like it okay I like it there's no money in the middle okay and there's probably is money in the middle not enough money and there's some there's a smidge
[00:36:30] of money in the middle is that better well how much is too much Hannah how much is enough yeah hold on you know that you know that song stuck in the middle again you don't want to be
[00:36:41] stuck in the middle again that's it that's a good one for you you can take it away from the show don't get stuck in the middle again okay goes with your other one okay Hannah says in the
[00:36:50] middle with you not okay again yeah I was hoping we could just move on and just all chuckle you know off the side here come on animal okay most people Hannah says most people in 2020 do not
[00:37:06] have the patience and attention span for a full and well thought out paragraph is that depressing yeah sure it is but we have to be mindful of what connects and converts and most humans don't speak
[00:37:21] in long paragraphs we speak in sound bites we benefit and connect and convert the most when we write like we talk what does that mean short short sentences Hannah is that what you're saying
[00:37:34] short sentences short words I don't know who told recruiters decades ago that the longer the word the more credible and professional and intelligent you sound absolutely false every copywriter will tell you that all long paragraphs and unnecessarily large words do is create distance
[00:37:54] between you and your reader people have no attention span they're skimming your email make it easy for them to understand what it is you're saying stop putting these giant blocks of text and
[00:38:05] giant words in when a short word will do it's annoying and it doesn't work to quote biggie pop I like to keep all of my songs with less than 30 small words perfect just saw him on a documentary last night good for you yeah he's been a favorite
[00:38:25] interesting guy but no he just said that last night okay but Hannah before you say something uh I sort of gathered this is kind of a motto of yours no jargon no fluff no stale training decks
[00:38:39] am I right about that absolutely no there's no there's no use there's no point in a in a world that moves as fast as ours does that we are assaulted by distractions cut to the point cut to the point
[00:38:51] like a laser make it interesting make it intriguing make people want to read more and get right to it there's no point in any of this window dressing that we've done for years because it used to be
[00:39:03] fine it doesn't work anymore we don't have the attention span anymore so it's extremely important to ever people you know people who are young like you okay they keep saying any more okay well
[00:39:15] what are you referring to I told you my my grandparents were illiterate they couldn't even read okay at least one set of them people and now you're you're saying oh they read long words
[00:39:25] and long paragraphs no they didn't okay just so that no no but to be fair to be fair when they were reading something they didn't have you know their Facebook notifications popping up over
[00:39:35] here and their text messages dinging here and their kids doing virtual school upstairs like mine are right now you know they didn't have the same thing they could do one thing at a time our 2020
[00:39:45] climate is such that you cannot do one thing at a time anymore it's very hard let's let's agree to disagree on on that okay sure oh what about emojis in moderation oh so they're okay extreme
[00:40:00] extreme moderation so that sounds like a no okay you just don't want to admit it am I right about that no it can but I think one one or two to be friendly or make a point is fine if you use more
[00:40:13] than one or two then you risk sounding like a teenager so in any sort of professional staffing one or two and really you know only if it's like to communicate a little bit of emotion
[00:40:22] or playfulness I don't want to see like eggplant emojis you know like smiley face yes egg plant okay okay you know you and Jerry had a little altercation on on Facebook Jerry you mind if I bring
[00:40:39] that up we do remember yeah I copied it please remind us animal dick wad oh wow see Jerry doesn't yeah remind us yeah okay I don't remember any altercation are you okay yeah I don't remember either I mentioned this woman being wrong about something
[00:41:00] but apparently you're saying she was okay at some point I posted something by a woman who who said negotiation is part of the process for white men women are seen as uh as you should
[00:41:14] be grateful for this opportunity since you don't think there's any better and then Jerry do you want me to read what you said Jerry I don't have to okay I agree with you Jerry by the way I agree with
[00:41:26] you I'm on your side in this okay okay but in lightness what did I say that day say it why what was it okay you said in my 30 years in my 30 plus years in working through
[00:41:41] negotiations for all sexes and genders my experience is this is entirely BS okay and and your whole point with you yeah disrespect you don't disrespect women and and I agree with you
[00:41:53] but henna didn't she said I can't say I agree with this go ahead henna no I don't agree with it women historically and statistically are at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiate before
[00:42:06] you go on I guarantee you're a thousand percent better at negotiation than me are you going to say that you're a typical woman or a very atypical woman I think I'm a more trained woman around this
[00:42:21] sort of thing therefore yeah I have an advantage 100% but I don't think that's the majority of job seekers go ahead now go ahead so you're saying women are not good negotiators is that what you're
[00:42:31] saying am I saying no absolutely not I think women women are at a disadvantage when it comes to the skill of negotiation it's a skill nobody's born knowing how to negotiate and nobody comes out of the
[00:42:45] womb going okay you know five dollars for you five dollars for me it's not how it works so but in general in general statistically you know we're already at a disadvantage we're already in a pay inequity situation and statistically right wrong or otherwise women don't talk about salary
[00:43:01] as much as men do with one another so because of that negotiation is inherently starting from a skewed place we don't have the same you know level playing field to start from nor are we given training
[00:43:13] on how to bridge that gap so it's always starting from a slightly behind place I don't know any man that's been given training on that I talk about salary I've done none of my friends
[00:43:30] yeah no not not that I know of I know your friends I'm just I'm giving you research I'm not talking about your friends I'm talking about the research I can only speak we don't believe research okay
[00:43:44] we believe our own experience go ahead do your friends talk about their salaries my no or Michael G Cox anybody does anybody talk about their salaries I'm just actually I have a cousin though who was an emergency doctor and he told told me how he
[00:44:02] negotiated he said he made sure he asked for a laptop in a parking place in a downtown hospital and he made sure they put it in writing and this guy it's his personality it's not his training
[00:44:15] he is an aggressive person and they came back when with the offer they left that stuff out and they tried to deny it but he had it in writing okay said they would they would give it to him
[00:44:27] yeah I mean you're hitting on this is this is a longer conversation but you're hitting on exactly that you know men historically have been rewarded for being aggressive in conversations like that women
[00:44:38] are historically perceived as man this person's being too forward or she's being a bitch or whatever it is so we can have a much longer conversation about that but we are coming from a different okay we're doing this for 30 years this is just not my experience
[00:44:56] Jerry just look at today we're telling this woman I was going to say girl affectionately from the start how much we're enjoying her company we're enjoying talking to her we're not saying
[00:45:07] you're a nobody because you're a woman okay I don't know what's going on she makes more money than we do I appreciate your I appreciate your kindness however where I'm coming from is a point of
[00:45:21] United States okay just to make it clear just to make it clear it wasn't kindness it's just ordinary but okay but what's this can you Hannah yeah would you mind pointing pointing us to this data
[00:45:34] that you're saying oh my god yeah I'm not talking about the yeah I'm not talking about this this salary disparity I'm talking about the data that talks about women in the workplace do not
[00:45:50] have a command of negotiation they don't have the training and they just simply don't negotiate because I'll point you to the data and I'll point you to all the the anecdotal research that
[00:46:00] supports it I'm happy to put it for you love okay hold on I'd like to move on but I do want to acknowledge one thing I acknowledge historically and maybe in some regions but I don't know if
[00:46:11] it's in my city women have been profoundly disrespected and and not given credit for who they are okay and subservient you know correct I'm all in with that okay really virtue signaling is duly noted
[00:46:26] animal no no I just want to acknowledge we saw that is a truth let the record of animal recognizes wait a second she keeps saying it's 2020 and I agree it's 2020
[00:46:40] I don't see I don't see people on this show and I don't I don't know if we're a select few uh you know maybe we are okay so the United States of North America it's a big place yeah maybe different
[00:46:50] regions are different but I just don't know you guys have not seen that play out in your own circles that's wonderful just know that your experience is not the universal experience as my experience is not the universal experience we can talk anecdotally about our circles all day
[00:47:06] I'm just telling you what the research says which I'm happy to okay got to do one more ad okay for higher tool hi retu al it is a super duper sourcing tool you know what there's lots of
[00:47:18] sourcing tools now okay it's it's the latest thing but on facebook whenever there's a discussion of sourcing tools all the top recruiters the famous recruiters that we all respect and sourcers they all include higher tool among the greatest among the best sourcing tools
[00:47:39] in fact they rave about it okay uh for the contact information that it can bring you the the time it saves and its ability to dig up a list of candidates for you to al higher tool dot com I
[00:47:54] was going to ask you about tools that you use but we won't accept that one thing I wanted to get you save it for a recruiter a website sorry you know what I have to apologize everybody I think I
[00:48:08] sort of derailed the conversation by going off into that uh you know that that yeah I didn't like that because because what you did was you you threw in the middle of a fantastic conversation
[00:48:21] that henna and I had had some argument there was no argument in the past so strictly for shock value I didn't say it was for shock value okay you should nope nope after this after this episode is over
[00:48:36] take a few minutes and ask yourself what was the value in that what why did you rekindle that argument uh huh where did where did that get us well I think there you know what I just
[00:48:49] think it might have been the wrong place for it I think I think it is a uh an interesting discussion so let's move on though I want to get to something else uh henna believe
[00:48:57] you have just brought up the subject without saying hey remember you guys argued about this I mean henna would he have been able to do that or did did did bringing that recent conversation up did that in validity your show is your show I still have love for
[00:49:15] you both so okay look okay okay look okay we're talking here about the person that I see everything it's more important it strikes it's got more more punch if it's personalized okay you guys had a
[00:49:29] discussion a few weeks let me move on uh you believe henna it seems to me that uh having a good website for recruiters very important and am I right about that yes and no I mean where what
[00:49:42] leads you to believe that I have a strong stake around that okay because you recommended uh here's what you said everybody you said uh you referred to uh jack copeland at staffing future they
[00:49:54] specialize in web design for recruiting and staffing then you followed it up you say everyone I know who has used them has definitely gotten gotten business from the upgrades that they provide yeah I believe I believe the thread that it was on with somebody asking for
[00:50:09] web recommendations so that was what you said is that yeah yeah somebody redesigned their website and it brought in business so that means to me that websites can be important are you going to say
[00:50:21] no sure sure yeah I won't I won't argue that I think what's most important at this point in time is one digital footprint so whether that's through a well done website whether it's a really intentional
[00:50:34] and dialed in linked in profile a really well written executive bio uh yes I definitely firmly and vehemently believe in the power of a strong digital footprint in this climate and especially going into 2021 whether that's a really well designed website is sort of up to somebody's
[00:50:51] budget in their situation but I think if it's all done so hold on I'll just add to that though I see I find this interesting you said that the website these guys provide is more like a true
[00:51:01] engagement funnel platform versus just a landing page so what does that mean an engagement funnel funnel platform so in marketing a funnel is essentially that you're you know capturing a lead through you know maybe it's a freebie or some sort of other lead generation tool and then
[00:51:18] they build in an automated process to nurture that person so there could be some sequences or there could be some other opt-in things like that I'm I'm not a web design person so
[00:51:28] I don't want to speak out of my playing field but my understanding is that the way they do it is you know very modern very well done very engaging and the returns are there on it I what I know and
[00:51:40] what I'm comfortable speaking to is just one digital footprint when it comes to the okay so let's shift so hold on I just found I found it interesting what you said uh okay I think they
[00:51:51] do it well I just don't want to do it in justice because I don't really know the nuances of it okay and so what what though are uh what kind of digital what what activities do you recommend in
[00:52:03] order to create the kind of digital footprint that you're talking about and what would the results be yeah so what's absolutely mission critical in 2020 and beyond is having a really locked up
[00:52:16] digital bio so I don't want to give one way of doing it because I think it depends on the industry if you're in a professional industry linkedin your profile should be really locked up
[00:52:24] you know if there's a company what does that mean what does locked up mean okay filled out yeah locked up means and I teach this in my training but a locked up linkedin bio is not a
[00:52:37] regurgitation of your skills a really well written bio is about you but from the point of view of your prospect it's a sales tool it's a quiet subtle sales tool so a really good bio
[00:52:53] will tell somebody what it means to work with you why they should trust you why you should be part of their you know network why you should be in partnership but it's written using the point
[00:53:04] of view of the prospect it's using the voice of customer it's using what they're looking for you know everybody's in the back of their mind thinking what's in it for me and we should be
[00:53:12] keeping that in mind while we're writing our bio okay can you give us an example or you could either make it up you talked with Jerry a bit about his business maybe you could speculate what that
[00:53:21] would look like or maybe yeah but here's my issue with with with what you just said I want to a lot of these people on their twitter bios and their linkedin bios it just seems like pure
[00:53:33] bragging and that turns me off okay so what are you talking about okay I mean you're hold on do you like people are saying I'm a thought leader I'm a visionary come on go
[00:53:46] that stuff is you know if you have a quote where somebody else says you know Michael is a visionary and then fine share the quote that somebody said animal how many times do I have to tell you
[00:53:57] in one show okay go ahead Michael you're allowed to call yourself that's not pretentious but no what I what I mean is you know yes there's a place for your credibility people need to need to know that you're credible so if you have awards and accolades and testimonials
[00:54:14] share them for sure I'm not saying not to do that but when I say you know write your bio about you but from the point of view of your prospects how can you make a connection inside of your bio
[00:54:23] I'll give you an example I started my career in the big four in public accounting so I got recruited like hell I got calls from recruiters all the time so something that I might write
[00:54:32] would be you know I used to hate being recruited but I love being a recruiter and I'll explain why you know this is what I hated and when I entered the industry this is how I said I would do it
[00:54:44] differently it's a story it's like a little bit of storytelling that it is about me it's about how I got into the industry but it's also telling the prospect something they want to know which
[00:54:53] is this is why working with this person is different or this is what they stand for or this is what they're about so you have an interesting that that I that gripped me right away
[00:55:02] what you just told us but not everybody's got it sounds to me like a good story they just fell into these no no but there's a bunch of different story styles you can use so if you don't have a
[00:55:11] compelling or an inspiring story for how you got into the industry there's other styles I teach it's literally an entire lesson in my training about different ways to write a compelling bio
[00:55:20] even if you have no story there's other ways that you can draw story into what you're doing even if you don't have a great backstory okay so you know what let's we're almost done but let's
[00:55:30] let's explore that story for a second so people were you were uh uh uh uh an accountant of some sort is that what you just told us yep and people were recruiting you and you didn't like the way
[00:55:40] they were recruiting you and so you said I'm gonna do this oh what was it that you hated what what was it you do you hated and that you do differently yeah well I think all the things
[00:55:49] we've talked about right it was impersonal it was clear that I was one of you know 10 000 people on a blast now again I'm not suggesting that everything is sent one to one you know nobody has time for
[00:56:01] that but a really well written sales message even if it's being sent in a blast feels like it was written just for you and there was too many times where I would get messages or phone
[00:56:11] calls that were clearly like this person didn't even take two seconds to look at my LinkedIn profile or to know what I did or to say anything that could make me feel like they understood me and
[00:56:21] that drove me nuts it also you know the presumptuous I have a job that would be a great fit for you you literally never talked to me how do you know it would be a great fit how do you even know
[00:56:29] that's something I would enjoy you know so presumptuous zero personalization you know that was an immediate delete for me and that's something that I vowed to never do I vowed to always
[00:56:38] make sure that some element of my reach out whether it was phone or email had a personalized component I never made assumptions about what people wanted next I think that's ridiculous
[00:56:49] you know and then I I pong my hat on that for a decade and a half and it worked okay if you did it for a decade and a half you're older than I thought
[00:56:59] and how can people get how can people get in touch with you again give us your new I'll spell your name for them but give us your new URL okay that's when's that going to be
[00:57:08] yeah it's recruiterscopyclinic.com it's it's in development I had I did it myself frankly and there's been so much attraction and so much interest in it that I haven't you know been happy with my
[00:57:19] own little DIY so I have it outsourced now to an actual professional web designer but it'll be recruiterscopyclinic.com the best way to get in touch with me and to get more information
[00:57:28] is just find me on LinkedIn I'm the only henna prior got a nice little blue top on you can find me pretty easily so just link up with me there shoot me a message I'd be happy to
[00:57:37] chat with anyone and okay let me show your name H E N N A first name yep second name P R Y O R I've enjoyed having you in the show I hope you come back sometime okay hey it was fun you guys are
[00:57:52] nice that I love it Michael G cock are you you
Sponsors
