Spilling the Tea on HR Tech - Will the AI bubble burst soon? Analyzing the $2 trillion drop in market value, ethical AI regulations, and possible financial risks for tech buyers.

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We saw the same thing when we started moving to the cloud in a lot of solutions.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_01]: We started moving to the internet.

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Historically, yes, the bubbles were big and they burst really big

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and they could cause some real impact in people's lives.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But that early expending got us beyond where one company could imagine us could act.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Right? It was that huge industry-specific push to move something forward.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we're seeing in the AI right now.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I do think we need a lot of probably spending that isn't going anywhere.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_01]: What I think people have to do on the business side, though, especially business leaders,

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_01]: is making sure they're not spending more than they could afford to lose.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the HR Huddle Podcast, presented by Sapient Insights Group,

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: the ultimate resource for all things HR. It's time to get in the huddle.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome, everyone, to Spilling the Tea on HR Tech, where we focus on the hottest HR tech news

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: everyone needs to know to be in the know. We break down the news the week and help you

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_01]: make sense of what it means for our industry and how it can impact your organization.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And we are recording today on August 14th, 2024, just before everybody's running into

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: starting off their school year. So we know a lot of school shopping is going on and other

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_01]: things this week. I'm your host, Stacey Harris, Chief Research Officer and Managing

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Partner for Sapient Insights Group, a research and advisory firm. And joining me today is my co-host,

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Cliff Stevenson, Director of Research and Principal Analysts for Sapient Insights Group.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Cliff, what a week we're running into all the September events that are coming up.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So lots of tea for us to spill today. I believe another 10 seconds.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's right. We brewed up a big pot. It's like we're going back to school as well.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I know that my sister's children are going to be out there. So shout out to Maddox and

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Cash. I know you probably listened to this on your way to school. That would be amazing.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, we have a lot, a lot to go through from all over a lot of interesting stories. And

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_03]: for those of you keeping scored home, we're talking about AI. It's going to be a big one today.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_03]: But there's been a lot of news that even if you only loosely follow these stories,

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_03]: you may have heard a few of these. So I'm pretty excited. I don't know if you want to jump in or

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_03]: we want to talk about any of the other stuff we have going on first.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's talk a little bit about where everybody can catch us over the next two to

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_01]: three months because you and I are getting back on the road again. And we're at the same time

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: finishing off the big annual report that we do every year. Right? So maybe just a quick

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: reminder for everyone that we are getting ready to publish the, we're going to sort of do

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_01]: backwards the report delivery this year. So we're going to be delivering before the full reports out

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_01]: are what we call our voice of the customer segments. So the data that's around all the vendors and

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_01]: their user experience and vendor satisfaction will come out first this year because we're going to

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: be presenting that information at the HR technology conference this year. And then

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: the full report will be available on October 31st. And I think we're probably going to do

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: some pretty big events around that so everyone should watch their news for it. Cliff, I

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: don't know about you, but I've already got my Halloween costume for that event. Don't you?

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, definitely. I'm excited. Going to be going as a UX versus VS chart.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_03]: That's going to be the hottest one this year, I think. There you go. But we're also going to be

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: at a lot of events. So one of the first events I think you might be able to catch one of us

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that would be the Oracle Cloud Rold on September 9th through 11th. Cliff will be representing

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Sapey Insights there. He'll be showing up to gather all the news and take all the

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: information. So if you have any specific questions for Cliff while he's there capturing

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: information, please let us know. Also, we'll be at the HR technology conference which is,

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: oh goodness, my dates are not sitting here in front of me, Cliff. It's September, what,

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: 23rd this year, right? Yeah, it's that week. I want to say it's like the 22nd through the 26th

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_03]: with the kind of big days being the 23rd and 24th. We're going to be there the entire

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_03]: week. So that Monday through that Thursday evening, maybe even Friday for a few of us,

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_03]: we'll be there. So if you're going to be at HR tech, you will be able to find us. We are going

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: to be at a lot of scheduled events, but we are leaving some time to be on the expo floor as well.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. And just because I had to go look over to the side here to get it,

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: September 24, September 25 and September 26. So we were close. We were in there somewhere.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But there'll be a lot of events you'll be catching us. So our first event that week on September

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: 24th, which is that Tuesday when we're doing women in HR tech, our CEO Terry Zipper is going to be

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: presenting with Daniel Bichon who will be talking about the creating a culture of data transparency

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: for HR. That's a really big conversation and how it impacts things like pay equity and

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: women in leadership. And then you can drop by my keynote session, keynote mega session,

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: which will be on Wednesday at 1pm. And just a shout out to everybody who pushed to have it back

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: on the first day again. I know that was one of the conversations that we had last year. So thank you

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: everyone because that's why it has moved to the first day. That's going to be the voice

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: the customer highlights from our annual 27th annual HR system survey. Cliff will be helping

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: me put some of that together so he'll be out in the audience if we have additional questions.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we also will be signing my books and giving out some books for some exciting things

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: that people are going to be promoting at the IROM booth, which is 5502 I think. And that will also

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_01]: be we're doing our HR Huddle podcast interviews there with Terry Zipper CEO. And then Cliff,

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_01]: we just got some brand new things that we added to the list, which was kind of crazy.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Cliff and I just they were they had a spot open, they needed someone to fill something

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and they both Cliff and I said, Hey, we've got some content that we think will be valuable.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So on Thursday at 1pm, we are going to be doing a session called the technology

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: agnostic approach to skills management with Cliff and Stacy. So this is when you and I have done

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_01]: we've got some insights into what's happening in the skills management space,

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but we also have some fresh off the press data that we'll be able to share in that session, right?

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_03]: That's exactly it. And it'll be kind of a continuation because you know anyone that

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: listens to show anyone that reads what we put out knows that skills management is something

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: especially from Stacy that we think doesn't get enough of a light shown on it. And so

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_03]: we're going beyond beyond just saying, Oh, here's some stuff about skills management,

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_03]: but really getting into the specifics beyond, you know, of course, the vendors and what's new

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and what's involved in technology, but how you can apply these things and what you should

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: be looking for in the future. Because it's something that I think, you know, as we start

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_03]: getting through the news is going to be a bit of a theme for this week is how well we've done at

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_03]: sort of using that data to understand the trends of what we're going to see in the future.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's going to be a big part of the paper this year. We have a full segment on skills

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: management and not from the sense of I think we've always got to be careful with the skills

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: management conversation because sometimes I think people put it out in the market as

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: necessary and easy, but it's not it is necessary and really hard. And so we're

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_01]: going to we're going to give you some of the reality check around practically implementing

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: a skills management strategy and what organizations are doing and what vendors are

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: using and what outcomes they're getting. So I think it's going to be exciting.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_01]: After HR Tech, though, we're also going to be at several events. Cliff, you and I will both

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_01]: do the I Solved Connect event October 7th through the 10th, which is just a few weeks after

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01]: HR Tech will also be at the unit for event on November 6th to 7th, which is that's more

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_01]: of an analyst event, but they're coming usually do a lot of their work internationally. They are

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: doing more work in the States and so they're going to be bringing a group of their production team

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and executives over to talk to the analyst here in the United States. And then we'll be at UKG

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Aspire November 12th to 13th and Workday Europe event this year on November 12th to 14th. So

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_01]: a packed calendar up through the end of at least the Thanksgiving holiday. Cliff, this is going

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_01]: to be it'd be a lot of running around. I'm going to ask you the one question I think

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody's on everybody's mind. Will we hit the October 31st date to get the whole paper out?

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I you know, I think we're going to have it done before but you know,

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_03]: it's more than just the writing as we always say, right? It's also checking, you know, the data,

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: double checking, adding in new things because as we talk about on the show,

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: new developments happen all the time. We want to make sure that's reflected. We don't just

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_03]: say, Hey, this is what it was and just deal with it. We like to always keep updating and

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_03]: having everything ready. So I think for that reason, we need to be able to have those other

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_03]: sections, you know, we have those voice to the customer. They're so important for anyone that's

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: dealing directly with vendors and needs to know where it stands and what's new and who they

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_03]: should be watching. But those other areas are just as important strategy in the business of HR,

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_03]: for instance, implementation and change management that tells you, okay, I have the tech. What do I

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_03]: do with it? And we get a lot of different perspectives and a lot of different styles too. You know,

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: if you're like, Oh right, we I just want tons of data. Well, we've got it. But you're like,

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_03]: also, I need someone to kind of walk me through a day in the life, give me more of a story,

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_03]: tell me how this goes through and how this might apply to my business. That's in there too.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a reason it's, you know, over 200 pages. And believe me, we'd make it shorter if it could

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_03]: be. But we want to make sure that there's something there for everybody. Yeah, it's kind of nice.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: For the long term, I always have we always had a small team that was pulling this paper together.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And but it was also not as big as it has been in this in these last couple of years,

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: it was a little bit smaller, probably about half of what we did in many cases, if not less.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: But I will have to say, I always felt like that getting it done was was a heavy,

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: heavy burden on the shoulders, right? Because there was so much that was involved in this research.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's nice to have a team and to have Cliff leading that team kind of really ensuring that

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: he's confident we're going to hit the dates. I don't have to worry about it. It just makes my

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: heart feel really, really good, Cliff. So thank you to hear that confidence. And I know I'm

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: starting to see the data and we've already started talking about the data. So it's going

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: to be good this year. That's all I got to say. So just my two cents.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: No. And we mentioned it on the last episode, but highest number of respondents of all time.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the data point I'll give you right now for free. Don't have to buy the paper to know this.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_03]: 3,318 respondents just absolutely amazing. And I'm really looking forward to

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_03]: we're all looking forward to sharing all of that data and insights with you all.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you all for especially if you took the survey or even

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_03]: distribute in any way that you were involved. All that thanks goes out to you.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I know we'll be putting out, I think you're going to put a blog out this week if we can get

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: all of our T's, Crosstine's dotted that will give a little bit more detail on some of that sort of

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_01]: demographic information. We do also have for distributors coming up a webinar at the end

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_01]: of this month on even more details on kind of what are the demographics of those who

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: participate in the research. So that's coming up for anybody who was a distributor.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, we've got so much going on. And then on top of it, we've got a full

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: bed of content here. They talk about what's going on in the market. So Cliff,

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: we better jump into that so that we can talk about it.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Enough about us. Right? Let's talk about, let's start by talking about SD works.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like I'm going to go right back to them on us because they are in the paper.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_03]: They're one of the companies that we track. And when I mentioned new things happening,

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_03]: they have acquired F2A from Ardian or Ardian, not 100% sure on that,

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_03]: who was the investment house that held F2A. So, you know, for the most part,

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_03]: this helps SD works get into the Italian market reading from what they're talking about. This is

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_03]: a big part of the geographies, but it's also some of the specific software

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_03]: that's needed for that geography. And just really again, you know, as we've talked about it

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_03]: numerous times, you know, really understanding the needs of specific markets and understanding

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_03]: what is the best way to approach those and meet those needs in a way that works best for both companies.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that that's what we're seeing here. We don't know the exact dollar amount,

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_03]: but you know, as always very interesting to see, you know, obviously the bigger player here is

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_03]: SD works, one we've known and watched for a very long time. But, you know, they clearly

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_03]: saw that, you know, this is an important geography and set of, you know, specific parts

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_03]: of the software that they needed to be able to have in order to serve them. So pretty interesting

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: stuff. And I always like to see those sort of things that happen within just EU because a lot

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_03]: of times it gets thought of as sort of monolithic, right? We're just like, oh, that's an EU based

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_03]: company. But it just like if you're a United States base, and we always talk about, oh,

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_03]: California has got its own set of regulations. Remember that the EU, although they have certain

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_03]: rules, it does not mean that it's all the same. There is still a lot of geographical dissimilarities

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and changes and unique little elements that can go within municipalities within, you know,

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_03]: provinces within countries and counties and all of the little parts even within

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_03]: countries within the EU. So, you know, and that's proven out by the fact that

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: this was the move that SDWorx wanted to play. Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I think we're hearing

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: more and more about the idea of globalization of payroll, getting all of your data at least in one

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: view in one format. The payroll data is becoming more and more important to strategic decision

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: making inside the organization. And so I'm not surprised to see this. I do think that, you

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_01]: know, there's a lot of conversation to be had about what is a true global payroll versus

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_01]: what is sort of a global payroll aggregator versus what is an organization that has sort of

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: pulled together a coalition of payrolls that are and the services behind them, which is really

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: important, then the support behind them. I think it was one of the things they called out in this

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: press release was more than 1200 experts supporting 6000 customers, right? Now across

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the two business units. So that shows how big and how much effort it takes to do payroll

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: in a really good way. You just don't use many resources probably for some of the other

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: SaaS based solutions in the market that are running for various organizations, but payrolls

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_01]: are you have to have your your compliance experts embedded into the work that you're doing. So I

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_01]: was glad to see this. I think we're going to see more from SDWorx. I know we've had a

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_01]: couple of friends of ours like Luke who have gone over to SDWorx. I'm waiting to see

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_03]: how they expand what they're doing here. Yeah, absolutely. And not a acquisition but a partnership

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_03]: but also in that era of sort of expanding the offering. Beeline and Upwork announced a strategic

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_03]: partnership. So Upwork, I'm always curious which people might know better, but Upwork is

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: definitely the organization I knew better that right that's a big collection of what we just

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_03]: say contingent workers, workers all different types, a lot of freelance workers and Beeline

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_03]: primarily known for their vendor management system, their VMS. So by doing this, you've got that entire

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_03]: network of Upwork professionals that can now be surfaced within the Beeline platform,

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_03]: really giving you kind of even more of an all in one shop for anyone that deals with a large

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_03]: amount of contingent workers that's looking for a sort of one spot where they're like find the

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_03]: workers, pay the workers, stay in compliance with all the workers depending on your area.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_03]: So again, really see again what they saw in the market is clearly a need that needed to be addressed

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_03]: which is kind of I think the best kind of moves to make rather than just simply saying okay,

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_03]: we're buying this or partnering just a partner. This is a, everyone says strategic partnership

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_03]: but I think that this really kind of really makes the case. It's easy to understand

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: how both of these organizations saw the fit. Yeah, this one is interesting. I like Beeline.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So a few, I don't know if it's been about maybe two years now. Back, Beeline picked up what was

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Upmost which was another sort of smaller competitor that came out of the contingent

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: workforce space whose CEO now is over a Dan who's now over at SAP Success Factors as the

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: president of the Success Factors application area, right? So kind of small world how all of this

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: is kind of working out because SAP Success Factors has that very strong

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: field glass product which is in this space, right? I think you're just seeing more and more

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: the contingent workforce become an HR conversation. It's not just a vendor management conversation

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and that gig worker role which is a little different than pure sort of contract relationships

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: which might be like an RBO or something that or an out placement service that you might have had,

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: right? And so we're seeing all these kind of merging and working together. This is in direct

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_01]: competition to something like what we've seen happen over at Workday with Imley, right? So

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're going to see more and more of this happen. I think Beeline is one of those companies

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that probably was on a spreadsheet somewhere. You didn't quite know all the things that they

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_01]: were doing. You're going to see them a lot more as they continue to expand what they're

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_03]: doing in the space, right? Absolutely. And I loved that you have such a good institutional

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_03]: knowledge of where people were and where they went. It really feels like this is really the

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_01]: spilling the tea sessions. It gets to be a really small world really quick.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But speaking of how big it is in terms of just growth and size, Employee made the Inc. 5000

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_03]: fast growing companies. Now, Employee, you've been thinking, oh, fast growing companies,

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_03]: haven't they been around? It's probably because you're thinking of all the companies that

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_03]: fall under their umbrella. So that's Jazz HR, Lever, Jobvite, Nexting, RPO. So that's all

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_03]: under that. So that sort of consolidated group is why they'd be considered a fast growing company.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, and it's not one of those things like, oh, we made the top 5000. It wasn't even

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_03]: closer. I think it was 2862, number 2862. So they just blew past a whole lot of other

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_03]: companies and obviously really making a move. And those represent a lot of companies, I'd say

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_03]: more or less in the, well, obviously the RPO space, we can see that. But in the sort of early part

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_03]: of the town life cycle, but a whole lot of different sort of organizations and clearly all

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_03]: under those same stewardship. So just again, I like to see the sort of growth that's one of the

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_03]: things that we talk about here, we're not curating, we're not saying, oh, you know, we've mentioned

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_03]: before when there's been job cuts. It's just really the fact is that we're seeing a lot of

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: growth in this area and we're going to talk a little more about that later about where we're

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: seeing some growth because yeah, there is some dire news, but there's also a lot of

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_03]: strength in this market as well. Yeah. And I think it goes to also share,

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and Cliff, you and I have talked quite a bit about this about in some cases,

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: brands become really strong under the point solutions. And in some cases, you'll see

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_01]: point solutions get bought up by other HR platforms that become part of the HR platform.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Some cases you see something like this where they're just and what we saw with organizations

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_01]: like Indeed, right, where they're just, they just continue to buy more of some of the same,

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_01]: right, of what they already have. They just expand their market share, have different options

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_01]: for different people. And applicant tracking this tools, I think are one of those where

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_01]: it's sort of hard to create something with a lot of breadth and depth that meets all the needs

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_01]: of all the different sort of organizations. And so we do see that this is one where oftentimes it

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_01]: gets sort of sucked into a different conglomeration of things, right? That's right. There's,

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_03]: as you were saying earlier about skills management, it's, you know, it seems like

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_03]: it's just one simple thing, but really there's a whole lot to it. So, you know, then I think that

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_03]: just proves it, right? Because there's clearly a market need for it. And more growth we're seeing

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_03]: expansion within organizations adding to it, Paychex has announced an employee engagement

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_03]: solution. And, you know, I'd have to see this sort of coloring book chart to see if there's

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_03]: anything left that Paychex doesn't have a solution for, but they're going to have

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Paychex Flex engage. And this is going to be, you know, everything you might think of within

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_03]: engagement platform. And honestly, I think a little bit more too, because we're seeing,

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, beyond just sort of communication, we're seeing some of the recognition space and

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_03]: some of the other things, you know, performance reviews and rewards that are all within this

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_03]: pretty broad offering, you know, extension of what they have available. So pretty neat. I know that

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure we'll get a chance to dive in a little deeper to it. But, you know, just so that you

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_03]: listeners know, we often do know about these things when we're under an NDA and can't say

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_03]: things too. So it's all sometimes it's just like relief. Yes, here we go. We're telling you,

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_03]: but we always tell you as soon as we're legally allowed to. But really need to see just because

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_03]: for what I was saying at the beginning, it's kind of cool to see a true full suite,

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_01]: something that we've talked about for a long time. Yeah. And I think it's important to always kind

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: of remind people of the size of some of these organizations, right? So Paychex has over 745,000

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_01]: customers, right? Like the only kind of comes close and now they have a lot of SMBs. And so

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_01]: they don't serve the same number if you look at total number of sort of employees individually,

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_01]: right? As the larger firms. But, you know, really the two names you tend to always hear

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_01]: together is Paychex and ADP. They just have such a big view of particularly the SMB market, right?

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So they have about 16,000 employees now at Paychex that are committed to serving those

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_01]: organizations. And that's just it's a massive amount of investment in understanding sort of

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: what are the needs of the SMB market for many of them, right? I do think, you know, we've

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: seen Paychex, they've had solutions in place for a while around performance and compensation. I think

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: a bit of this is they've put some updated new wrappers around some of what they already had,

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_01]: right? They've created more of a dashboard feel with this engagement solution, right? To

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: something that they already had sort of in place in their Flex product. Which from what I

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: understand and our conversations with them, Flex is kind of the primary they're using

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: across all the primary solutions except for the very smallest, right? And I think this is, you know,

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the things that you and I have said for a while is that the HR technology space is no longer

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_01]: there's not a lot to innovate left, right? It is a highly commoditized market. So a lot of

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: the conversation now comes down to value full suite conversations, you know, integration of

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: data, integration with the partners who will have a few of those small innovations that you

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely will always need in this market, right? It just shifts the buying conversation a little bit,

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I think for a lot of organizations, particularly us and beginning in the market, we're trying to

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_01]: simplify their worlds more, right? So I'm excited to see Paychex continue to sort of expand what

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: they're offering in a more sort of holistic way. I believe we're going to be at HR Tech

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_01]: doing one more of their every year at HR Tech. We do a podcast with them where they kind of

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: present that to their customers, right? So I'm sure we'll get into some of this topic

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: at the HR Tech conference here in a few weeks, but I just think this is a bigger conversation

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: about what's happening to all the pays if you want to call them right? Yes. It comes,

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: the pay cores, the pay velocities, the pay rate, they're all competing in a very tight

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: market. And I think you do have to make some noise about when you're starting to tie some

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_03]: of these things together in a better way, right? Yeah. And I think that term use simplification

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_03]: is key because that's what they're looking for. Another thing that's interesting because

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_03]: you were mentioning that you don't sort of realize just how many maybe employees or even

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_03]: in this case, we're going to talk about just candidates are reach out by or touched by in an

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_03]: HR safe way by some of these organizations. This was a report that came out from Isems

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_03]: that showed that there's actually quite a bit of demand and supply people taking jobs,

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_03]: especially in the tech market, despite what you might have heard about,

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, as they call it economic uncertainty, they're seeing that there is actually increases,

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_03]: not just again in applications, but in jobs are being hired. And you start to really think

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_03]: about these numbers when we're talking about the really big, you know, applicant tracking systems

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and TA companies like Isems, they're looking at 200 million applicants with 5.5 million

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_03]: hires annually. So, you know, you start to really think about that's a very large data

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_03]: set that's larger even than ours. So it's like when ADP kind of gives a jobs report,

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_03]: it has a little more weight because it's not, you know, based on speculation and saying,

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, this is what we're seeing. So I always like to see that in some of these organizations

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_03]: using their data in a broader market and giving a sense of what's really happening out there,

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_03]: especially considering that, yeah, there is a lot of uncertainty in the job market and no

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_03]: one's saying that there isn't, but there is also still a heavy demand and supply for these jobs.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And I think her exact Ria Maas, who is their global head of workforce and customer

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_01]: insights at Isems, exact quote was that while the focus on the labor market has heated up,

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: we've seen a lot in the last month on, you know, this stock market, which I think we're

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: going to get into in just the next conversation, had a bit of a bit of a crash because of

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: some news on, at least in the United States on labor stats along with the AI conversation.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Her comment was that the labor market itself has not melted away.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, our data I think is probably going to come pretty close to this as well that

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: there's turbulence, there's been a lot of hold and wait in our space. And because there's

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: been a lot of hold and wait, I think you're seeing actually more activity,

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: because now people are like, okay, I have a direction. I have a next step that I'm taking.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's probably not going to show up for maybe another two to three months, but I

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: wouldn't count out sort of an economic sort of increase in certain areas and

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: certain industries. And that's really what I think is going to be happening is you're

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: going to really want to double down on what industries are going to be growing.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And something like healthcare, no matter what's happening in the market,

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to see growth in the healthcare space, right? So.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And I wouldn't count out anything that you ever said, because I think you're

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_03]: something like $5,900 for $5,900 on predictions. So whatever Stacey says, take it to the bank.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_03]: But as I said, it's not all great news. And but you know, speaking of times we've

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_03]: talked about this and been right. And I'm usually a little more or I know you're very

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_03]: shy about this, I'm trying not to be as much, but one of the big stories that

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_03]: made national news, and you might have heard this even to our global listeners,

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_03]: is that they found a sort of devaluation and drop in the total value in the AI market by,

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_03]: well, they're saying $2 trillion. I actually think it's slightly, you could think of that

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_03]: because they're saying $2.6 trillion. But remember the way they're looking at that

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_03]: is they're taking some of the biggest companies that are considered AI companies.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But Google and Meta, they have more than that. So yes, a lot of that drop was due to

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_03]: lower earnings than expected on AI products. And that sort of snowballs, right? Once

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_03]: that's just how the investment markets work. What does that mean? Well, that is something

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_03]: we have mentioned that this is a for-profit set of businesses. They're not making AI

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_03]: to sort of advance this isn't through the government. They're looking for ways

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_03]: which can be monetized. And as we've talked about before, in earlier news stories,

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of them are losing money. They're putting these AI products out for free or for cheaper

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_03]: than it costs them, develop and run them with the resources required that resource

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: intensive things for you as listeners, I would just say that doesn't mean, okay,

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_03]: AI was a bubble that's burst and it's gone now. It just means that as we've always said,

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_03]: you need to be thoughtful about what is your use of AI and how is it actually more efficient?

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Is this something that is making your life better? And what is that worth? Is it worth the amount

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03]: that is going to cost? Because even if it's free now, it is not always going to be.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Is this a service or is this a process that you absolutely cannot do without AI?

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Then then you might want to be a little more nervous about how you have your organization

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_03]: structured. But this is kind of the proof of what we've been talking about for a long time is that

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_03]: for all the hype that is still a costly venture, a costly technology and, you know,

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_03]: not be going away, but you may see a slowing down of putting AI into everything.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Is my thoughts on this? Yeah, I think again, after the likes as they say it,

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_01]: of Google and Meta revealed that they're spending on an technologically far exceeded

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Wall Street's expectations, I think most people probably could have told them that that was

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: what was happening. The one quote was, this is amazing about face like we've crashed into

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_01]: a brick wall and I'm like, well, I think only the people who weren't really watching what was going

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_01]: on crashed into a brick wall. We all knew and this is again another situation where

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: there's no easy button getting this right cost money. And the reason I just have to keep

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_01]: reading the reason Google and those guys didn't come out earlier with their genitive AI tools

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_01]: or their versions of Genitive AI tools before what we saw with chat GDP

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_01]: is because they knew there were problems with those that they weren't going to be

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_01]: perfect. I think what we're seeing in the market right now is organizations like chat gpt and others

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: are saying, okay, we know we're going to learn together and this they've taken that risk.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But that also means that you're taking that additional budget across the market, right? Like,

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_01]: like more people are investing in that concept instead of a small research and development

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_01]: group, right? And maybe that's the way to do it. Maybe that's the way we got up with all

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_01]: got to sort of be able to pay into this to actually see the kind of movement that we're

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: expecting to see. So I'm not, I think we just caution isn't the right word that I want to use

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_01]: here. I think it is truly more a matter of practicality. Really thinking about this. We saw

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_01]: the same thing when when we started move to the cloud and a lot of solutions, we started

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_01]: moving to the internet. Historically, yes, the bubbles were big and they burst really big and

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_01]: they could cause some some real impact in people's lives. But that early expending got us beyond where

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: one company could imagine us could act, right? Like it was that that huge industry specific push to

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_01]: move something forward. And that's what we're seeing in the AI right now. And so I do think we need

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of probably spending that isn't going anywhere. What I think people have to do on

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: the business side though, especially business leaders is making sure they're not spending

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: more than they can afford to lose. That's what it comes down to like any other risk and

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: gamble that you're making in the market. That's the conversation because it's going to take

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_01]: more than we expect to get to where the day of the robot coming to our door and fulfilling

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: our services and answering all of our questions without having to worry that it's going to

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_01]: tell us to glue pizza or glue things onto our pizza. But once it's there, and I think

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_01]: you've mentioned this several times, but if this is the worst AI you'll ever get, right?

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not completely in agreement with all that because I have seen it go backwards in math

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: since it's been released because it's picking up some bad math issues. But I do think that,

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, everybody is trying to trying to figure out how we get to that next step where AI is

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_01]: is making our worlds easier and not just telling us pretty poems, right? And we're

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_01]: getting there. We're seeing them. We see that in our data. We will have specific examples

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_01]: of how AI is helping organizations. But we're also going to show in our data that it's not a

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: no easy button, not enough with the switch and done type of thing. Right? That's right.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, part of that comes from our ability to sort of oversee it, right? Which I

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_03]: think kind of leads us into a really great post. This was from Sam Turnpenny talking about the

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: EU AI Act. And as we've often seen in the past, generally, not always, but most of the time,

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_03]: anything in the sort of the HR or people regulation or even tech regulation, let's just say

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_03]: regulation tends to start in the EU and then is a sort of version of that a sort of water down

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_03]: version or at least some guidance from that comes to the United States. But due to the

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_03]: globalization that Stacey mentioned earlier, you really still have to be aware of it and probably

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_03]: you need to adhere to it. And he talks about, you know, there's still, it doesn't, you know,

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_03]: it's not completely in effect, but some of the early stuff that's going to be in the next six

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_03]: months have to do with places where you're just not allowed to use AI. So things like you

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: can't use it for determining emotion, right? You can say, oh, this person was angry in

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_03]: this meeting, therefore they're fired or anything like that. You know, that sort of thing determining

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_03]: physical characteristics of a person is out. The sort of things that I would consider yet,

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_03]: that makes sense. But then again, if you don't regulate it, people will take advantage of it.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_03]: That's just the sad truth because you know, they'll do it under the auspices of no,

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_03]: this is helping people. This is, you know, in a way helpful. So if you don't regulate it,

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_03]: those things will happen. But it's an interesting and good set of guidelines that

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_03]: helps from that sort of other side of that AI perspective, right? Some of it is the what we're

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_03]: guiding and what we're asking you to do, what we're pushing. And this is sort of the

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_03]: pushing from the other direction, right? It's like, no, no, no, you need to go this

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_03]: direction so you don't hit that wall, right? You need to go over there while we're trying

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_03]: to go faster, faster. No, maybe a little left and slow down. So you know, just

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_03]: pretty interesting stuff as always, we'll have a link to his post and these notes,

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: anything of the major stories will be in the show notes, both on YouTube and on LinkedIn.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And I just want to call out the one thing that they note that employers using AI to source

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: screen select candidates will have to comply within two years. A fundamental rights impact

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_01]: assessment, which I think everybody should be aware of what that is, appointing a suitably

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_01]: trained and qualified person to oversee these AI systems. We've been talking about a chief AI

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: ethics and responsibility role for a while informing people when they are interacting with an AI tool.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_01]: That's sort of that's a fairly easy, somewhat easy thing not all the time. Ensuring the data is put

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01]: input into the tool is relevant and representative. So not inputting extra stuff, which is a great

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_01]: thing. And I love to bring in a bunch of data so that it can kind of decide what's important.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So you might have to do it, assess some of your tools for that. And following instructions

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_01]: to keep certain records, reports, certain incidents and more like so kind of following what

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_01]: happens with that AI along the way. Those are things you're going to have to do, right? So no

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_01]: matter where you're at, you've got to follow some of this stuff. The big thing is to understand

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_01]: how big these fines can reach. And I think that was the one that we've been talking to quite

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_01]: a few organizations recently about their compliance needs. And in this particular one,

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_01]: the highest fines can reach up to 35 million, I think that's euros, right? Or 7% of company-wide

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_01]: worldwide turnover percent wise, right? Like that's that can be massive for a large organization,

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_03]: especially global organization, right? So yeah. Yeah. And sort of if we can wrap it up,

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to talk about one that you sent this to me and I found it fascinating because

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_03]: it's talking about an organization, a Scotiabank specifically. So you know, you and saying,

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, how do we sort of start using creating an ethical AI culture? And,

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, some of these seem more like practical, but I think that was a term that you used earlier

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_03]: as well. You know, how do we get it more accurate? But, but serving the purpose of what

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_03]: is it we're trying to do, you know? So using AI to train AI, taking people's responses and

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_03]: putting that back into the model rather than saying, okay, what's wrong this amount of time?

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_03]: But like, how do we improve that? And thinking about how people want to interact, you know,

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_03]: if you're dealing with a chatbot, you don't want to say the exact same thing to chat,

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_03]: but just as you wouldn't with the human, right? It's like, what did I just waste my

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: time. So what do you do? You get, you see a sort of summary of what was discussed. And that

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_03]: is what the next chatbot goes on. They see really nice results, you know, they saw,

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, over the last two years, the accuracy levels gone up from 35% to 90%,

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_03]: which is great. Although that first number 35% tells me that tells you where the AI is for

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of these organizations. But he says it's hopefully getting better all the time.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, just in general, I do like the focus was on what is, how is this affecting

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_03]: people? That was the final goal rather than just how is this affecting efficiency.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And Scotiabank, first off, they're out of Toronto, Canada, not.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Toronto, Nova Scotia.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But I used to work with them.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it American anything north of me?

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Not to call you on the ground.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: No, you got me.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But I used to work quite a bit with Scotiabank back in the early days.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I worked a lot on it with them on the learning and development world that they

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: were in, right? And they were one of the most progressive L&D functions that I had worked with

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: in quite some time. But technology was always a challenge, right? For every organization,

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: the challenge. And I think to me, this really highlights a really well thought out partnership

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_01]: between kind of the idea of what we're presenting to our customers and to our clients and what

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_01]: we're doing and to help our internal employees and bringing AI to that conversation, right?

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they won that Data IQ Innovation Award for the work they were doing.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: This is not HR specific, but it's had an impact on HR. It has an impact on employees, right?

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I just really liked that this was very focused on ethical conversations,

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_01]: very focused on what they couldn't share and definitely was about meeting the employee

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and the customer where they were at in that conversation and making sure that the two

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_01]: were getting the best of what this could offer versus it was just kind of getting people to a

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: first level and well, that was good enough. We're going to get them off our plate now, right?

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_01]: They really were thinking about how do I get them through the entire cycle that I need them to

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_01]: get through. So I thought this was good. I think it's just a good example of how people

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_01]: should think about their strategic approaches to AI versus just a one-time or an embedded

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_03]: element of things, right? Exactly. And like I said, I put the link in because

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_03]: that was what was interesting to me too, because I think in theory we always, we say, you know,

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_03]: you need to be taking ethical approach. This was great to see how that is applied and what we mean

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_03]: by that and how it can really have real results that aren't just okay, we need to be more ethical.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_03]: What does that mean? But it also helps the business. This is a win-win and it was really

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_01]: wonderful to see. And I think we're kind of wrapped up. I know there was one additional

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_01]: conversation here about preexisting beliefs about AI at work. This was a Forbes article,

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_01]: but I think they took this off of some of the Microsoft presentations and materials that we've

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_01]: seen recently as well, right? But they were really talking about how 41% of employees were

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_01]: showing skepticism about using AI at work this summer. Oh no, this is Asana's work

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_01]: innovation lab. That's what it was. It wasn't Microsoft. So this was coming out of Asana,

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_01]: which we use so just very... That's a solution we use quite effectively to run our projects

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: internally. So I thought this was interesting because they were pulling this from data they

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_03]: had captured from their customers, I think, right? Yeah, exactly. And it gets to something that

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we started talking about, if not last episode, the one before, which is this idea of

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_03]: trust, which is something that comes up a lot when you're talking about things like

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_03]: data governance or just any use of data, but AI has that same concepts of the times, how just

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_03]: human trust works and understanding that if you lose it, it's gone for a long time and

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_03]: how do you build trust? And how does the psychology of people work with something like

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_03]: AI when trust can be a big issue and how they got through those ideas of skepticism

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_03]: or outright resistance or just needing to adapt, which is a form of trust, right? Being willing to

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_03]: change. So I found it fascinating because again, it's a tool that I can understand what it's like

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_03]: to use it day after day and where those sort of functions come in and how you can

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_03]: think about people just like in the last story, how you can think about people using it and

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_03]: what are the practical effects that this is going to have by using this technology and what

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_03]: can you do to improve those effects on people? Yeah, if you're someone trying to build more

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_01]: trust in AI in your organization, which I know some organizations are, this I think is a good

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_01]: article to read and definitely an interesting study. I would go down to the study not so much

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_01]: to the article. Articles are oftentimes very light on this kind of topic, but I would go down to

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_01]: the study and the conversation that Rebecca Heinz, who's head of us on his work innovations

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_01]: lab is having and maybe we can even reach out. That's a good idea. Maybe we can talk and

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_01]: see if they'd be willing to come on the show, on our partner show on the HR huddle. Because I think

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_01]: this is a conversation that everyone should have, right? Which is we want to understand what it takes

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_01]: to help employees and human beings change when we stop thinking about what they need

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_01]: to make them feel comfortable with change and we just start shoving things in

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_01]: or we don't give them enough value or purpose in making that change. Then you know,

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_01]: the work environment is not only are they not doing what we need them to do or they're only

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_01]: getting around it. It just reminds me for those who maybe are a little bit older and has ever

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_01]: gotten a chance to see the movie office space, not the TV series. And the TCP reports, if anybody

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: remembers those, that is what it feels like when you're pushing it without giving them a why and

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_01]: helping them understand the value proposition. So my two cents on that one. All right. When

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I've showed my age, Cliff, I think we need to wrap up for the day because we're already over again.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just imagining everyone smashing the AI machines with the hammer in the field now.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I know. Yes.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Get a voice playing in the background.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah. Okay. Now, now everybody, if you haven't seen that show yet, it is a cult classic.

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It's really, really good. You got to go look it up. It's a great movie from the early 90s, right?

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Or was it 2000s? Yeah.

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. As we wrap today on all of our great conversations on AI and what's happening in the

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_01]: market, just a reminder, this full annual A-Tier System Survey White Paper will be available on

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_01]: October 31st with the update. But if you buy it now, this is just a hint to everybody. If you

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_01]: buy it now, you'll get last year's and next year's. So a great opportunity to do that.

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We once again have covered more than 200 HR vendors this year in our research and in our data

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and again, lots and lots of participants in the survey this year. Also, please go to the website

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: to sign up for the newsletter to get ongoing updates on our research launches where we'll

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_01]: be speaking and visiting if we couldn't catch it all in our podcast and then details on

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: when we're launching the actual research itself. Be sure to listen to our sister,

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_01]: HR Huddle podcast. HR, we have a problem hosted by our CEO, Terry Zipper. And if you like

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[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_01]: about hearing about the podcast so that just know that that's just kind of personal kudos for me and

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Cliff. So don't stop doing that either. To stay up to date with immediate breaking A-Tier Check

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_01]: News and to get all the behind the scenes content, you can follow us at Sapient Insights

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[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_01]: sure all of these things get out on a daily basis and to your hands in a timely manner.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to our listener community. We couldn't do this without you. You are what make this

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_01]: a valuable conversation for us. And that's it this week for the for this episode. It's

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_01]: still in the TNHR Tech. We hope it's been just the very needed to get the start,

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the engines running this week. We're really excited the next couple of weeks you're gonna hear more

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and more coming out about the research so be sure to keep tuning in and we'll be back in two weeks

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_01]: with another pot of boiling hot HR Tech updates and insights and maybe some early

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_01]: sneak peek set what's in their report this year. So thanks everyone. Bye.