HR, We Have a Problem - How to build a successful HR tech strategy through stakeholder buy-in and system integration.

[00:00:00] You do. I've sent people off into the world of go find out what your stakeholders need and they're like, wow, they just wanted somebody to listen to what their problems were. So I'm starting to get this, right? And that's the truth. I mean, obviously they'd like to see some improvements, but just having somebody listen or ask the questions is like step one, right?

[00:00:26] If you don't know what our problems are, you can't solve them. You can implement all sorts of technology that we don't need or don't want. But if you listen, you can obviously do that more effectively and get the right solutions.

[00:00:43] Welcome to the HR Huddle Podcast presented by Sapient Insights Group, the ultimate resource for all things HR. It's time to get in the huddle.

[00:01:02] Hello everyone. Welcome back to the HR Huddle. I'm your host, Terri Zipper, CEO and Managing Partner at Sapient Insights Group. And I'm back for another exciting episode of HR, We Have a Problem.

[00:01:15] This is the show where we break down the big and most relevant issues of the day. We help you make sense of what they mean for you. And we talk a little bit about what you could do about them.

[00:01:26] Joining me today is Michelle Stewart. Michelle is Senior Manager of HR Systems at Federated Cooperatives in Calgary. Welcome, Michelle.

[00:01:37] Hi, thank you. Nice to be here.

[00:01:39] It's so great to finally get you on the show. She and I were talking beforehand. We've been trying to plan this thing for like a year. So super excited to finally bring it to fruition. There's a lot going on in the HR tech world these days. And we've been doing a lot of work around HR system strategy with the cohort that we've been running. And that's, that's been going really well. We kicked that off earlier this year.

[00:02:06] And I believe that this is kind of a passion of yours. And I was hoping that that's what we would spend some time talking about for the next 30 minutes or so. So does that sound like a good plan to you?

[00:02:17] Sounds awesome. Absolutely. It's an area that I'm passionate about. So I am happy to chat about it.

[00:02:22] Awesome. Then let's get into the huddle.

[00:02:25] Okay.

[00:02:26] So given, given the work that you do, and I know you, you recently took a new role, wanted to get a little more background on your experience and your career path and kind of how you ended up at HR systems and maybe tell us a little bit about, about your new job.

[00:02:43] Yeah, for sure. So I joined a federated co-op about six months ago now. So they are based in Western Canada. So British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. And what they are is a local cooperative. So it's the value of bringing everybody together to benefit from the synergies of, you know, being able to buy in mass. And what they have is in all the little towns across those provinces is, you know, that are often too small to have a big grocery store.

[00:03:13] They have a lot of these retails. And what they do is we buy in mass, share the, as, as customers in those small towns, you can buy a patronage to that co-op and then benefit from that co-op being there and, you know, being able to purchase. We have grocery stores, hair salons, there's an ethanol complex, there's a refinery. Yeah. So what happened is, you know, the refinery, for example, got built, a bunch of farmers got together and they're like, we need to create gas for all our equipment.

[00:03:42] And so built their own refinery. So it's really about, you know, those retail stores and providing service. So we are one organization that are, that is owned by 160 individual legal entities.

[00:03:57] So federated co-op is that group that comes together and, you know, does, like I say, buys all the commodities, gets that ability to, you know, benefit from the cost savings of buying for everybody.

[00:04:09] And, but we are owned by all those legal entities. So adds a complexity to our business.

[00:04:12] Right.

[00:04:13] Yeah. I started in HR tech. I kind of fell into it. You know, I kind of like to say that I grew up in HR tech.

[00:04:21] I went to school for IT. You know, my practicum coming out of school was, you know, sort of out of my post-secondary was at a small company doing desktop and server support.

[00:04:31] So I got to fix computers and I got to go out and support companies with their servers.

[00:04:37] And, you know, then I got into doing a little bit of development, development, building some custom apps and stuff.

[00:04:42] And it was really great foundational experience. But I had the opportunity then to get into the local healthcare and support them as an HR business analyst with an implementation project that they were doing.

[00:04:57] And so from there, I kind of just moved through HR tech as my career. So it was really, you know, kind of like I say, I just fell into it and I've grown up in HR tech.

[00:05:07] Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of how I got, I started working in payroll. And prior to that, I had worked in a co-op, a small company that where I did financial systems and they were implementing a new finance system.

[00:05:21] So I helped implement that. So when I came back to the U S I had been overseas, the, there was this payroll opportunity and I was like, well, I know how to do technology.

[00:05:32] And they were like, great. Come on in. Like, you know, at the time it was like anybody that knew anything about technology was like, you're in, you're in.

[00:05:40] And then you just kind of learn from there. Right. Like we were implementing a new system. So I was like, oh, okay, I've done this before.

[00:05:47] It may not be the same, you know, space, but I've done it.

[00:05:51] Yeah, exactly. Right. So I got to, I kind of came in and they're like, oh, you're going to co-lead this project.

[00:05:55] And I was like, excuse me, you know, but it was really great because I got to learn the system I'd never done before.

[00:06:02] Got to learn how to configure it, you know, from the vendor, got to learn how to build reports, got to teach the users who, you know, who are doing that admin work within the system.

[00:06:12] Worked with finance because they have obviously a connection to what we're doing in the HR space and then got to learn position management.

[00:06:20] Right. And do, you know, sort of, you know, balance the positions and keep the system updated.

[00:06:25] So it was really great. Like I got to just do everything and they trusted me, you know, which was, which was amazing.

[00:06:30] So from there I moved on to an oil and gas company.

[00:06:35] So I moved from healthcare to oil and gas and I did, I was a position management analyst.

[00:06:40] So really kind of doing org changes in SAP.

[00:06:43] I also supported, you know, like, so obviously did the position management, but also supported security.

[00:06:49] Like when there was requests for those elevated roles, got to do that.

[00:06:52] So it was really great.

[00:06:53] And that's when I was like, yeah, I really enjoy being a part of HR systems and being able to make enhancements and fix things in the system.

[00:07:01] I wanted more than just position management.

[00:07:04] From there I moved into the Calgary, the school boarded Calgary and got to be a business analyst working with an outsourced vendor.

[00:07:11] So this was, you know, kind of working with our AMS partner to, you know, to continue to develop the system.

[00:07:18] And it was then that I got asked, do you want to be on projects or do you want to be operational?

[00:07:23] And it was at that point in my career that I made a very conscious decision that I wanted to be operational support.

[00:07:29] Like I wanted to lead the charge eventually in that and just make an impact because projects are sexy.

[00:07:35] There are a lot of hard work and they're really sexy.

[00:07:37] But then you get to go away and there's somebody else left holding the bag.

[00:07:42] And that's where I was like, I want to make things better in the lives of my HR peers.

[00:07:48] You know, I want to help them realize that this new technology that they've got is actually not bad.

[00:07:54] It's good, you know, and it can really make their lives better.

[00:07:58] Because most people coming out of like a project implementation are always like, oh, it's not as good as our last system.

[00:08:03] And, you know, I mean, kind of a little bit hesitant to change.

[00:08:06] And I wanted to be able to help them realize that this was going to make a difference in their life.

[00:08:10] Yeah.

[00:08:11] You know, HR technology, it's been, in my experience, one of the most interesting because it touches everyone in the organization.

[00:08:21] Not that some other apps don't as well.

[00:08:23] But HR, pretty much everything touches everybody.

[00:08:28] And, you know, it's varied and unique.

[00:08:30] I mean, there are so many different areas that you, you know, dive into from, you know, recruiting and talent management to how to pay, you know, how to manage performance, how to just manage data.

[00:08:42] And now, you know, how to govern that.

[00:08:44] That's a massive amount of data, right?

[00:08:47] That goes into this.

[00:08:48] Well, and you're impacting your employees.

[00:08:51] And that's exactly it, right?

[00:08:53] There's all, although it's, it can be the same, it's different.

[00:08:57] It does, you don't never know what you're going to do on a day-to-day basis.

[00:09:00] And you are directly impacting the lives of employees.

[00:09:03] You know, kind of, you're that hero behind the scenes.

[00:09:06] Yeah.

[00:09:07] You know, it's kind of what I think.

[00:09:08] But yeah, it's just so interesting because it's always, there's always something to try and figure out and something that you can just do to make things better.

[00:09:16] Yeah.

[00:09:17] So, yeah.

[00:09:18] So, so from there, I moved into another small company and they had a Calgary-based HR system.

[00:09:24] I got to kind of work down in Texas to help them, you know, implement those modules in Texas.

[00:09:30] And I went out to the UAE and, you know, it was just really great experience to understand, you know, how are they getting their vacation accrual and what are their processes in the UAE compared to in Western, you know, into in Canada and in North America.

[00:09:43] So, you know, how do you take a system when you don't have a, you know, one of these large scale products and how do you make it work to the best of your ability?

[00:09:51] So that was really cool.

[00:09:52] Really great learning experience as well.

[00:09:54] And then that was also, you know, I kind of moved into leadership at that point, built a team up there.

[00:10:01] And then I moved out to a company in Ontario, which is a nuclear power plant and got to lead the team.

[00:10:07] They had just implemented Workday.

[00:10:09] So this was my first experience with a really a cloud-based product and got to come in and really set the foundation and the governance and kind of the expectations for how do we operationally support this product that has been, you know, has been delivered and how do we improve our ROI on it?

[00:10:25] I spent seven years out there working with that team before I came back home to Calgary because it's where my family is.

[00:10:31] And, you know, I've now been working in Oracle, you know, again, implementing a cloud-based system and doing the same thing here to help support the organization.

[00:10:41] Yeah.

[00:10:42] It's not a once and done.

[00:10:43] I mean, it takes on a life of its own, right?

[00:10:46] And then, you know, that whole thinking about what the short and the medium and the long-term strategy is for how these tools work together, interoperability, you know, just the long-term results that you're looking to get and the business outcomes that you're striving for.

[00:11:05] Well, and that's just it, right?

[00:11:07] It's that, you know, you're absolutely right.

[00:11:10] It's not a once and done.

[00:11:11] It is, you know, a living system.

[00:11:13] It's ever-evolving, and that's the benefit of it being cloud-based and having these technologies is to understand what it is that you can do, the new features that are being released, and how do you continue to make, leverage them in order to make things better for the organization?

[00:11:29] You know, so you always have to be evaluating and looking at, you know, where the gaps can be bridged because, you know, there's multiple releases a year that need to be realized and managed, and, you know, and you have to understand that sometimes things get delivered, and they are delivered light, and then they continue to evolve so that then you can, maybe where you couldn't meet the need before, you can now.

[00:11:56] You know, so it's fast-paced as well.

[00:11:59] That's the thing I would say about HR tech is it's fast-paced.

[00:12:02] Yeah, and even the small organizations that we work with have on average, you know, 10 systems they're using from an HR perspective, even if that includes things like some of their Microsoft suite, you know, so there's a lot of things.

[00:12:16] I was talking to a vendor at HR tech, and they said, well, we do releases every month.

[00:12:22] Wow.

[00:12:23] I said, well, okay, so you've got releases every month.

[00:12:27] Let's say you've got 10 or 12 HR systems.

[00:12:30] So if everybody's releasing something every month, which is not unusual for the cloud.

[00:12:35] Yep.

[00:12:35] You've got hundreds of new things coming out all the time, and the number of organizations that I walk into and have a conversation with about what they're looking for, it blows me away when they tell me what they're looking for, and I say, well, your system does that.

[00:12:54] But they don't even know because there's just so much coming out of solutions.

[00:13:00] They can't even keep up with it, and they certainly haven't had a chance to implement it or really sort of figure out how to operationalize some of those new features.

[00:13:10] Well, that's the thing, right?

[00:13:12] Well, it's a full-time job, too.

[00:13:14] You need people to take a look at it to understand what those features are, how they pertain to you as an organization, and you need to stay on top of it, right?

[00:13:23] Like, if there are features within this release that are currently not something that we want to implement, then we need to make sure that we're keeping a backlog of it and we're reviewing it.

[00:13:34] It needs to be a conscious decision to continue to either say, no, we're not going to turn this on, or yes, we're ready to now.

[00:13:39] And I think that's the thing is that when it comes to release management, there's all those items that come automatically delivered that you need to make sure that you're testing for and that you are looking at, right?

[00:13:50] So then they put those optional items to the back burner and often never get back to them.

[00:13:55] So it's about making sure you have that list and that you are looking at it and you're cross-referencing to them when requests come in for these gaps in your system.

[00:14:05] So it's really, and that's the structure around, you know, kind of HR systems that I find lots of organizations, you know, the ones that I have worked in, you know, haven't necessarily had.

[00:14:14] You know, they just need that foundation and that process to work through it.

[00:14:17] So it's about, like I say, keeping track of them, adding them to the backlog, making sure you're reviewing them, and making sure that when challenges come in, that you're understanding the problem.

[00:14:29] You know, a lot of times you have users come and they say, I want X.

[00:14:33] Okay, but what's the problem you're trying to solve?

[00:14:35] If you can give me that problem, now I can kind of understand.

[00:14:38] I can take it back and I can look at what those, you know, those enhancements we may not have turned on or what's coming in the product roadmap.

[00:14:45] And we can look at how we can solve that.

[00:14:47] You know, and I think it's also important to take a look at what can you do in the interim that's outside of your specific product to ease the burden.

[00:14:57] I had a conversation today with one of my peers and they were telling me about how there's, you know, the new product, you know, is more challenging and it's a bit of a lift.

[00:15:10] And, you know, they're waiting for this product roadmap to further evolve.

[00:15:14] And, you know, and I was like, well, what about RPA?

[00:15:16] Let's have a conversation about what RPA can do for you to remove those, you know, rinse and repeat items that are heavy lift so that you can focus on what you need to be doing.

[00:15:27] And it was like a light bulb moment that they just didn't even, they didn't even know what RPA was and yet let alone how it could ease their burden, you know.

[00:15:35] And so this excitement comes out from them in regards to, oh my gosh, we could, you know, we could, we could leverage something that means we don't have to be, you know, manually doing this for, you know, days on end, multiple times, you know, a period.

[00:15:51] Yeah, there's so much that, that, or, you know, this other, you know, machine automation, AI can do to support HR.

[00:16:01] And, you know, HR is not kind of tepidly walking into that, you know, trying to figure out where, where to use it and not be dangerous, right?

[00:16:11] Well, that's exactly it. And I think that's some of the challenges in the HR tech space that is, you know, in our personal lives, technology is evolving so fast, right?

[00:16:21] You think about our phones and you think about app updates and the things that you can do, the nudges that you get to, you know, to do something.

[00:16:29] The organization has to allow us to, you know, be able to advance our technology, but also within the confines of what the risk is for the business.

[00:16:37] And then, you know, that often can sort of slow us down from being able to move forward, right?

[00:16:42] So it can be a frustration point, but also understanding we have to protect the organization, right?

[00:16:48] You have to work within the guardrails of our infrastructure and what IT is, you know, kind of able to let us do.

[00:16:55] So it's, it's interesting that, you know, what you can sometimes do outside of the organization is so much more than what you can do inside of the organization.

[00:17:05] And to me, it's like thinking about those, the generations across the organization from the perspective of, you know, my, my daughter is 20, what she can do on her phone, she's going to be expecting to be able to do when she comes into the workplace.

[00:17:16] Exactly. I mean, we want to bring that consumer experience to our data. They're all blending together anyway.

[00:17:23] Our daily lives have completely blended in with our work lives.

[00:17:27] Look, we're all, you know, we're all working at home in our little corner offices or in the basement or wherever we can find a spot.

[00:17:35] So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's that real everyday, you know, consumer experience that people are looking for.

[00:17:43] And I think that's a big, it's something that the vendors are starting to pay attention to, but they're not as far along as I think we'd like to see them.

[00:17:53] Right. Exactly. Well, and that's just it, right?

[00:17:55] I have, you know, this is my organization. I bring my own device, right?

[00:17:59] So I've got a BYOD, my Teams is tapping on my watch, you know, which is really great.

[00:18:04] I don't have to carry two phones anymore until I'm on my day off and I don't want to be bothered by the Teams messages coming across, you know, those kinds of things.

[00:18:12] So finding that balance there and, you know, making sure that we're meeting people where they're at, I think is a big one.

[00:18:19] Yeah. So you walked into this role, I don't know, six or eight months ago.

[00:18:24] So did they have an HR tech strategy or were you kind of starting from scratch?

[00:18:29] And how did, how did you get that, get that going?

[00:18:32] So at FCL, so they are in a very unique place in terms of because of the size of the organization.

[00:18:41] So 25,000 employees, 160 legal entities.

[00:18:45] So we are partially implemented and still going live.

[00:18:50] And so, yeah.

[00:18:51] That's not unusual.

[00:18:54] And so, and so the thing is, is that the leader that was the leader of this team has now moved over onto the program, is getting that implementation.

[00:19:04] We have 100 legal entities live out of 160.

[00:19:07] And so, you know, they're the right now it's about, you know, kind of focused on that implementation.

[00:19:14] And so from a strategy perspective, you know, my, my sort of focus at this point is really about continuing to stabilize, you know, sort of helping from, from that perspective.

[00:19:26] And also to then sort of create more efficiency.

[00:19:30] So, you know, operationalize, create more efficiency.

[00:19:32] And then I want to get into the, into really building that strategy for HR tech with regards to, you know, what do we want?

[00:19:41] Like, you know, and thinking about what those, those needs are as we move forward.

[00:19:47] So we're not quite there yet because of the fact that we're in, you know, those two places.

[00:19:51] However, you know, what I, you know, I think is important is to take the time to understand what the business needs.

[00:19:59] So what are my peers within HR need?

[00:20:02] Where are the gaps?

[00:20:04] What is it that needs to be fixed immediately?

[00:20:06] And what are their blue sky visions, you know?

[00:20:08] And all of that feeds into the foundation of creating a strategy, even though we're not necessarily specifically building that at a roadmap right now.

[00:20:15] You know, it's, it's really about understanding what they know about the technology and what can I help them to, to understand, you know?

[00:20:25] And what I see consistently as I kind of go, you know, as I've gone from multiple organizations, everybody's got their own list.

[00:20:32] You know, you think about total rewards and recruitment and, you know, talent and that they've all got their own list.

[00:20:38] And they're all operating kind of in their own little world, you know?

[00:20:41] And so one of the things that I like to do is come in and create one backlog.

[00:20:45] So what is that one list?

[00:20:47] What are the things that need to be solved immediately, right?

[00:20:50] If we can get that low hanging fruit, then we've kind of take away that.

[00:20:53] We can start to then focus on the strategy, you know, understanding what the executive team wants.

[00:20:59] So what does my leadership want us to get out of this product?

[00:21:02] You know?

[00:21:03] Yeah.

[00:21:03] I mean, I tell people all the time, one of the critical components of this role is understanding your stakeholders.

[00:21:12] Right.

[00:21:12] Do you know who they are?

[00:21:14] And if you do, have you started to build a relationship with these people?

[00:21:19] Because they're going to be the key to your success as you move down the road.

[00:21:23] If they're not bought into what it is you're trying to drive through the roadmap, you're going to have a hard time selling it.

[00:21:29] I mean, they're a partner, you know, you need to be joined arms.

[00:21:33] Right.

[00:21:34] Well, and that's the thing, right?

[00:21:35] If you can get people in at ground level, then, I mean, you know, you get their buy-in.

[00:21:41] They may not necessarily fully understand it, but at least they feel like they've had a voice at the table, right?

[00:21:45] We're listening to them.

[00:21:46] We're understanding what is going on in their world.

[00:21:49] I mean, I'm not here to presume to understand what the problem is that they need solving.

[00:21:55] But if I can talk to them and build that relationship and that rapport with them and then listen to them, then we can then start to work together to solve the problem.

[00:22:04] And then that helps me with them, you know, being champions of the product and for them to, you know, be bought into it and not resistant to the change.

[00:22:16] Yeah.

[00:22:17] Yeah.

[00:22:17] The change is huge, right?

[00:22:19] And that's, I don't know, you know, how you guys are managing that because it sounds like this is a multi-year launch and rollout.

[00:22:27] But having those stakeholders on your side and engaged in the change management effort is huge.

[00:22:35] Well, and that's exactly it.

[00:22:37] And so, you know, I bridge, you know, I'm trying to, so the manager that is on the program for the implementation and myself from an operational perspective are arm and arm, right?

[00:22:47] So looking at it from the perspective of what are they doing?

[00:22:50] What are the new features coming out in these releases that we can leverage?

[00:22:54] How can we do this?

[00:22:55] And how do we make sure that we're, you know, we're talking to our stakeholders and that we are, you know, at the end of the day, we are here for them.

[00:23:02] And without them, we are nothing, you know?

[00:23:07] And, you know, I want to make sure, I really am a firm believer that I know I've done a good job when my HR peers are leveraging the technology without even realizing it.

[00:23:18] You know, it's running seamlessly for them.

[00:23:21] And they are, you know, they're just getting on with what they are good at, right?

[00:23:25] And we, from an executive perspective or a leadership, even if it's, you know, the HR leadership, they see HR systems as a strategic partner for them.

[00:23:35] You know, they are understanding that, you know, we are here to support them and we can give them some guidance on how they can optimize the processes so they can get to more, you know, to get to do more and to focus on other things as opposed to, you know, kind of having to run through technology.

[00:23:53] Technology and, you know, that operational kind of process.

[00:23:57] Yeah.

[00:23:57] Yeah.

[00:23:58] I mean, you can get excited about the new technology, but at the end of the day, if the teams and the department and the people who need it don't see value in it, it doesn't really meet its objective.

[00:24:10] Well, that's exactly it, right?

[00:24:12] And that's where it comes into how do we continue to improve the ROI on the product that we've just spent all this money and time implementing?

[00:24:18] Yeah.

[00:24:23] And that's where it comes to, you know, what's the thing that we're doing to then go back and make sure that it aligns with the overall business strategy?

[00:24:28] Because obviously there's the tech strategy, but then HR's got their strategy.

[00:24:34] So integrating with that and then ensuring that that's really aligned with the organizational, you know, goals.

[00:24:41] Well, that's the thing, right?

[00:24:43] And as I came into this organization, it's about understanding.

[00:24:45] So what were the goals that they had put in place?

[00:24:47] And what was it that they had for this year that I'm walking partway into, you know, and understanding, you know, what that means.

[00:24:57] And having that ongoing conversation, you know, I mean, from a strategic perspective, you know, looking for what is that people plan, if that's what they call it, or what is the strategic thrusts that they have within the organization?

[00:25:08] And tying it down to an understanding how that ties to the work that I, you know, my team is doing.

[00:25:15] I have been, you know, in organizations where they don't necessarily really define that, but it's a combination of understanding what that vision is for the organization.

[00:25:24] And then tying it to, you know, to, like I say, the HR strategic plan as well.

[00:25:28] And then pulling it down to making sure that the things that we are looking at are aligned to that, right?

[00:25:37] What are our goals for the year?

[00:25:39] What is it that is critical?

[00:25:41] And understanding that through those ongoing conversations with my leadership as well to make sure that we are not, you know, out in left field.

[00:25:50] And I think it's really, you know, critical to make sure that you're tying it back to the needs of the business.

[00:25:55] I mean, it's really easy to get caught up in, you know, not being able to see the forest for the trees.

[00:26:00] Very, yeah, no doubt.

[00:26:03] So you've been around HR systems for a while.

[00:26:06] What, what's your favorite thing or the thing you love most about HR systems?

[00:26:11] And, and then what's the thing that you love the least?

[00:26:15] I think we kind of touched on it a little bit, but you know, what I love is just,

[00:26:20] making sure that technology is running seamlessly in the background, right?

[00:26:24] That it is, people don't even realize that they have that technology.

[00:26:28] It's not a burden to them, you know, that it's really just helping them and them do what they need to do.

[00:26:35] I love seeing people get excited about possibilities of technology, you know, in the HR tech space.

[00:26:41] And, and helping them get to the place of being considered a strategic partner of their own.

[00:26:46] You know, like if that's really, really exciting to me.

[00:26:49] I think, you know, the biggest challenges or the things that I like the least is that, you know,

[00:26:56] being able to leverage the technology within the confines of the organization, right?

[00:27:00] So, you know, we have a number of people who don't have mobile devices.

[00:27:05] How do we make it so it's, it's accessible to them?

[00:27:08] And how do we, you know, how do we maximize the functionality that we have if, you know,

[00:27:14] if we can't let it through our firewalls, right?

[00:27:17] Like, I mean, there's just opportunities that sometimes are missed or have to be put on hold

[00:27:25] because the organization's, you know, IT strategy is, is just not quite there yet.

[00:27:31] And understandably so.

[00:27:33] Yeah.

[00:27:34] You know?

[00:27:34] Yeah.

[00:27:34] That is a, that is a significant key when you think about the blueprint for HR technology.

[00:27:40] You know, you've, you've got your HR tech stack, but outside of that stack are the other

[00:27:47] work operations and other technologies that, and strategies that have to be considered, right?

[00:27:53] Otherwise you end up with a different mobile strategy and a different content strategy.

[00:27:58] And you've got stuff all over the place that just makes no sense.

[00:28:02] Well, and that's the thing.

[00:28:03] And then you end up bringing in other technologies and like you say, adding to that stack,

[00:28:08] adding to the complexity.

[00:28:08] And then there's the, how do you know which product to use their, you know, for this or

[00:28:14] that?

[00:28:14] Like they're, you know, they're bots and they're AI and, you know, I mean, it's like, oh boy.

[00:28:19] Yeah.

[00:28:19] Well, and with 25,000 employees, you've probably got somebody over here saying, well, we're using

[00:28:23] this technology to do performance.

[00:28:25] And somebody else is like, well, we're using a different technology for performance.

[00:28:29] And now we've got like two or three different performance tools.

[00:28:32] Nothing is the same.

[00:28:33] There's no cohesive approach to performance.

[00:28:37] And, you know, now you're sort of, you got to back up before you can go forward.

[00:28:42] Right.

[00:28:42] Exactly.

[00:28:42] You go slow to go fast.

[00:28:44] Right.

[00:28:44] And, and that's the thing.

[00:28:45] I think that's really, you know, is really key is that at the end of the day, you need

[00:28:49] to, sometimes you need to go slow to go fast and you need to hear what the problem is

[00:28:53] in order to be able to kind of really understand.

[00:28:55] And people just want to be seen.

[00:28:58] Yeah.

[00:28:59] Right.

[00:28:59] It doesn't matter what you're doing.

[00:29:00] People just want to be seen and they want to be heard.

[00:29:02] And, and, and that's the thing for me is those relationships are key because, you know,

[00:29:08] you don't have to have all the answers immediately, but as long as you have that relationship and

[00:29:13] they know that you're there to help them get the most out of this technology, you can confidently

[00:29:20] say, I don't know, but I will find out and I will figure it out for you.

[00:29:23] And they, you, you quickly become a trusted partner for them.

[00:29:27] You do.

[00:29:28] I've sent people off into the world of go find out what your stakeholders need.

[00:29:33] And they're like, wow, they were just, they just wanted somebody to listen to what their

[00:29:40] problems were.

[00:29:41] Like I, you know, so I'm starting to get this right.

[00:29:44] And that's the truth.

[00:29:45] I mean, obviously they like to see some improvements, but just having somebody listen or ask the

[00:29:51] questions is like step one.

[00:29:53] Right.

[00:29:54] If you don't know what our problems are, you can't solve them.

[00:29:57] You can implement all sorts of technology that we don't need or don't want.

[00:30:03] But if you listen, you can obviously do that more effectively and get the right solutions.

[00:30:09] Well, and that's just it.

[00:30:11] If they don't feel like you're listening to them and, and trying to understand what their

[00:30:16] problem is, that's where they end up going back to the whole, I'm just going to tell you

[00:30:20] what to do.

[00:30:21] And you become order takers.

[00:30:23] And then you're in this vicious circle of, well, you didn't actually solve the problem.

[00:30:26] And now you're just layering on all these extra complexities.

[00:30:29] Right.

[00:30:30] So yeah.

[00:30:31] You told me you wanted a system, a succession plan system.

[00:30:34] You wanted a nine box.

[00:30:35] I got you a nine box.

[00:30:37] Right.

[00:30:37] What were you, what was the goal of the nine box?

[00:30:40] Right.

[00:30:41] Yeah.

[00:30:42] It, it's amazing.

[00:30:43] And it really, there's, you know, the questions you just have to keep peeling the onion.

[00:30:49] Right.

[00:30:49] Right.

[00:30:50] To make sure you really understand what it is they're trying to do.

[00:30:54] Well, and understanding where people are at, right?

[00:30:56] Some people are just really tentative around technology and helping them understand there's

[00:31:01] nothing to be scared about.

[00:31:02] And, you know, it's, we can undo what, what we need, if that's, you know, what we have to

[00:31:07] do.

[00:31:08] And, and just giving them comfort to know that we've got their back.

[00:31:10] Yeah.

[00:31:12] Is there anything from an HR tech perspective that you feel, you know, is still sort of

[00:31:20] on the horizon, something that you're waiting for?

[00:31:23] Like, when are they going to solve this, this particular problem?

[00:31:28] You know, I think it's, there's, there's so much in the HR tech space and it's hard,

[00:31:35] you know, I think the challenges is knowing everything that you could possibly do.

[00:31:39] And that, I think it's about how can we leverage, you know, AI bots, you know, RPA, right?

[00:31:49] Not just the conversational bots.

[00:31:50] How can we leverage all of those, those elements and, you know, nudges and, you know, and all

[00:31:56] of those pieces inside of the product that we have, right?

[00:31:59] So we don't have to tack them on, on top.

[00:32:02] That's what, you know, I kind of have these conversations like, okay, you know, yeah,

[00:32:05] we want to build a bot for this, but like, wouldn't it be great if we could just have

[00:32:08] it built into the technology?

[00:32:10] You don't have to go get another platform.

[00:32:11] You don't have to work through the governance process within, you know, IT to turn it on.

[00:32:16] You know, how do we, how do we really, and you see some of those, you know, some products

[00:32:22] are starting to do that more and more, but there's still that challenge with, you know,

[00:32:27] how flushed out is it?

[00:32:29] Yeah.

[00:32:29] You know, it's, it's really, it's really that, you know, and, and I think we really

[00:32:34] need to be focused on where, where the younger generation are at in, you know, and leveraging

[00:32:42] the technology there.

[00:32:43] You know, I, you know, I talk regularly about the fact that we need to be doing TikTok style

[00:32:49] learning, you know, and that, you know, so, so how can we, can we do those things within

[00:32:54] the technology to meet our younger generation coming in where they're at?

[00:32:59] Yeah.

[00:32:59] Yeah.

[00:32:59] Some of it is, you know, it sounds like what you're saying is less about a specific feature

[00:33:05] functionality.

[00:33:05] It's really more about how we integrate things and how we take advantage of the platforms

[00:33:12] that we have to simplify the processes.

[00:33:16] And as you said, make people, you know, not even realize they're using the technology, right?

[00:33:21] Like, oh, I was able to do this very seamlessly with, and it, I used, I touched 10 different

[00:33:28] systems, but I didn't know that.

[00:33:29] Right.

[00:33:30] Yeah.

[00:33:31] I did it with a couple of clicks and I got what I needed and, and I'm, I'm off to the

[00:33:36] races.

[00:33:37] Yeah, exactly.

[00:33:37] Like, you know, cause it's like to your point, right?

[00:33:39] There's that tech stack that is, you know, all the different products you need to go into

[00:33:43] and you've got to, you're going to go in here for that and there for the other and that

[00:33:46] for this.

[00:33:47] And, you know, and you're like, oh geez, I've got to track all my passwords.

[00:33:50] And, you know, I mean, but if we can, we can integrate it, like you say, and just make

[00:33:55] it so that that user experience is seamless.

[00:33:58] Doesn't matter what's sitting behind the scenes.

[00:34:01] Yeah.

[00:34:01] Yeah.

[00:34:02] They don't have to see how the sausage gets made.

[00:34:05] Right.

[00:34:10] So Michelle, if there was one thing that for our listeners, people that are just sort of

[00:34:16] contemplating starting to put together their strategy around HR technology, is there any

[00:34:23] advice you would give them just sort of something they could do tomorrow that might help them

[00:34:28] start to understand the landscape and start to put their ideas and thoughts together around

[00:34:33] this, this strategy?

[00:34:36] I mean, I think, you know, as I've mentioned, you know, it's that bringing that backlog together

[00:34:40] into one backlog and basically being transparent, you know, be transparent about what's possible

[00:34:48] and how and when you can deliver.

[00:34:51] People, you know, often frustration comes from not understanding the volume of work that's coming

[00:34:57] at the HR systems team and the technology team, you know?

[00:35:01] So if you can be transparent about the, you know, everything that's going on and you can

[00:35:07] help them understand, then you can build a strategy that says from an operational perspective,

[00:35:12] here's what we can do.

[00:35:13] Here's the capacity that we have.

[00:35:15] And this is, you know, these are the competing priorities.

[00:35:18] Which ones are we going to do?

[00:35:20] And decide that together, you know, as a larger team, then that will help you in building that

[00:35:25] trust with them.

[00:35:26] Right.

[00:35:27] That black hole approach of, you know, IT got, you know, days gone by is not what you

[00:35:34] want to do.

[00:35:34] You really want to kind of be transparent and, you know, and then evolve that, that strategy,

[00:35:40] build out that roadmap for your organization and keep going back to it.

[00:35:45] It's not a once and done.

[00:35:47] It's, it's a living document that is going to change as the businesses and HR's strategic

[00:35:53] priorities shift as well.

[00:35:54] Yeah.

[00:35:55] Yeah.

[00:35:55] I like that.

[00:35:56] Be transparent, prioritize.

[00:36:00] And, you know, at the end of the day, be curious because, you know, when, when somebody

[00:36:05] asks you, Hey, when are you going to get this done?

[00:36:08] Don't automatically assume that they need it tomorrow.

[00:36:11] Exactly.

[00:36:12] You know, sometimes that's a lot of what you do.

[00:36:14] You're like, Oh God, they need as soon as possible.

[00:36:17] Right.

[00:36:17] Instead of saying, well, you know, what's your timeline?

[00:36:21] How soon, you know, what are you looking to do?

[00:36:24] Cause you know, we've got some other priorities.

[00:36:27] Let's figure this out together.

[00:36:29] You know, I tell people all the time, be curious, ask questions.

[00:36:32] Don't, don't think you have to give the answer.

[00:36:34] That's exactly it.

[00:36:36] Cause it puts too much pressure on you.

[00:36:38] And then, and then you've suddenly, you're no longer transparent.

[00:36:41] Cause you've said, Oh, I'll get this done tomorrow.

[00:36:43] When you walk away and you know, you can't get it done tomorrow.

[00:36:47] Right.

[00:36:48] Exactly.

[00:36:49] And that's what I say to my team.

[00:36:50] I'm like, the first question I always ask is when do you need this by?

[00:36:53] People are not unreasonable.

[00:36:55] Right.

[00:36:55] And if you take the time to help them understand, you have, you know, all these things to do,

[00:36:59] but if you can, you know, understand what they, what the deliverable is and whether this is

[00:37:03] a must have or a nice to have and where it fits in what they're looking for, then that

[00:37:08] really helps build those relationships with, with your, you know, your customers and your

[00:37:12] peers.

[00:37:12] Yeah.

[00:37:13] We need to have you as a guest speaker on one of our cohort sessions come in and just talk

[00:37:18] about the real world.

[00:37:19] It's, it's pretty cool.

[00:37:21] I mean, all of these people are in and around HR systems.

[00:37:24] So they're, they're building their part of the cohort process is building their tech strategy.

[00:37:29] And some of them have a lot of experience.

[00:37:31] Others don't have as much experience.

[00:37:33] So they haven't seen a lot of the things that have happened in this world.

[00:37:37] So it's, it's been a lot of fun.

[00:37:39] It's been very, very interesting and fun and challenging.

[00:37:42] Yeah.

[00:37:42] I think it would be a great, a great, you know, course for, for people to take, you know,

[00:37:46] and I think it's really great that you, you know, you've put that together.

[00:37:50] Stacy and I've had lots of conversations about, you know, about this being kind of a gap,

[00:37:54] right?

[00:37:54] It's, it's, there's not a lot out there for HR tech professionals.

[00:37:59] You know, it's, you can go to conferences for your specific product and that's really

[00:38:05] great.

[00:38:06] But part of being a leader and part of being, you know, the trusted HR tech supporters

[00:38:13] for your organization is just understanding what tech is out there in general, right?

[00:38:16] And looking at how, if your, your main HR system can't meet the needs, what else can you do

[00:38:22] to help solve the problem?

[00:38:24] You know, and, and how do you build that in without making that, you know, tech stack

[00:38:29] more complex?

[00:38:30] You know, how are we simplifies, simplifying the experience, you know?

[00:38:35] But yeah, I think that's, that's, you know, operational, there's lots of stuff around,

[00:38:41] you know, project management, but how do you have that operational strategy?

[00:38:45] How do you understand what you need to do first and then what you can do later on?

[00:38:50] There, those are really, you know, like I say, projects are sexy, but you know what, in

[00:38:55] my opinion, operational support is meaningful and makes a big difference in the lives of,

[00:39:01] of the people that you see each and every day.

[00:39:03] And that is where I get passionate, you know?

[00:39:06] So there needs to be more stuff around how do you do operational support better?

[00:39:11] Because it's just as complex as project management.

[00:39:14] Yeah.

[00:39:14] It's exciting.

[00:39:15] It's fun to just talk about.

[00:39:18] I know.

[00:39:18] I love it.

[00:39:19] Well, Michelle, thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:39:22] This has been great.

[00:39:23] I know the people listening have enjoyed it.

[00:39:26] Looking forward to doing, doing this again at some point.

[00:39:29] I want to thank our producers, the Brand Method Media Group.

[00:39:32] I want to thank our marketing team.

[00:39:35] And I want to thank you for tuning in.

[00:39:37] That's all the time we have for this episode of HR We Have a Problem.

[00:39:42] If you enjoyed the episode, you can subscribe to it on your favorite podcast app.

[00:39:46] We'd love it if you'd leave us a review.

[00:39:48] We'd love to know what kinds of topics you want to hear about.

[00:39:51] Drop us a line or schedule a chat on the website.

[00:39:54] And we will be back in two weeks with another episode of HR We Have a Problem.

[00:39:59] Thanks, everybody.