EQ and the Art of Influence

[00:00:00] So you have probably watched someone with half your skill get way further than you and politely wondered, like, what the hell? So what is that person doing differently? How are they having greater influence? That's coming up now. Today, my guest is again, Jen Tricani. Jen's an emotional intelligence expert and executive coach with over 25 years of experience working with organizations ranging from

[00:00:28] Fortune 50 to family-owned businesses. She's the author of Ego vs. EQ and Choose Resilience. Hello, Jen. How are you? Hi, Andrea. Great to be here with you. Well, thanks, Jen. So today we're going to talk about influence. Influence is so important in HR. That's how we get anything done in HR. We rarely have much formal power.

[00:00:56] So we want to be more influential. What's the role of emotional intelligence? Well, if we go back to the definition of emotional intelligence, which I call the three R's, which is recognizing, reading and responding. So recognizing me and maybe what is my objective here? If I'm going to influence someone, I have an idea or an opinion or a direction that I think this person should go in.

[00:01:22] But then I have to read them. One, is this a good time to have this conversation? Right? So you might want to read their mood. Is this a time I can bring something up? And how receptive do they seem to be even physically? What are some reactions they're giving me to what I'm proposing? The other thing I really work hard when I'm reading others, and this might take a little time. So you might have to postpone your conversation until you do this.

[00:01:52] But I have to connect what I think they should do with something they care about. So I have people who will say, we love emotional intelligence. We'd love to do training on it. But our leadership, they don't want anything to do with it. They think it's all soft skills and, you know. And I always have to say, OK, well, what do they care about? And they care about something. Right.

[00:02:22] Whoever it is you're trying to influence, they might have a focus on profit. They might have a focus on getting promoted. They might have a focus on being seen as a subject matter expert. Right. Whatever this person cares about, whatever their motivation is. I have to put my idea in the context of that, how this is going to help them get that, more of that.

[00:02:51] Or if they don't do it, how it will risk them getting that thing that they want. So I'm taking all of the arguments out of the way I would perceive it or what I think the value is. And I'm putting it in the context of them. How do we know? Like, how do you figure out what they want? I know it's it can be tricky to figure out what they want. But I again, it takes a little bit of time. I've got to watch them and see what do they get excited about?

[00:03:21] What is the thing they tend to talk about the most in a meeting? What angle do they take? Is it the angle around people? Is it the angle around results? Is it the angle around service level? Is it profitability? They will reveal to you what they care about based on what they talk about, what they focus on. And if you if you have any other things that you've pitched to them, they'll usually have a question back to you. Like, how will this affect blah, blah, blah?

[00:03:49] Or we don't have the money in the budget. OK, now we know, you know, the money is the issue. So how do I put this in the context of how this will save us money in the long run? You just have to spend time watching and absorbing. And if you know that's your goal, that you're listening to figure out what they care about, you'll see the signs of it. It'll it'll appear. I'm thinking about like a situation where we want like an HR, we want a leader to manage their employee differently.

[00:04:18] I know we want them to care in some cases, right? We want them to show empathy when they might not feel empathy. So or we want them to say, hold the person accountable or consistently. Yeah, forget about it next week and let a bunch of things slide because like you have the consistency. You have to show up day after day and how do you influence them to do that?

[00:04:46] It's about listening for what that individual cares about. Yes. Yes, it is. And then putting it in the framework of that. Yeah. So some people, is this the reason some people have more natural influence while others don't? Like they are just naturally listening for things that motivate somebody? It could be. They they've figured this out.

[00:05:14] And and honestly, if you've been in sales at any point in your career, this is a skill that most salespeople have learned is how do I learn what that customer cares the most about so I can put my pitch in the context of that? And so if they've had some training that can help. And we do know that emotional intelligence is a mix of nature and nurture. So some of these we are predisposed.

[00:05:43] Some of these skills we might be higher in just naturally and others we have to learn. But I think the sooner we figure this out and we approach our our internal clients as a consultant would. People learn to trust us. And of course, influence grows dramatically with trust. Ah, I've done episodes on trust.

[00:06:11] But do you want to comment on on and I'll put links at the end. Do you want to comment on building trust in EQ's role in building trust? Yeah. So so building trust. I love the speed of trust by Stephen M. R. Covey and he goes through four elements of trust, which is really invaluable, I think, because

[00:06:36] when I'm recognizing, reading and responding, I am showing one, what is my intent? That's an element of trust. You can trust me because my intent is good. I'm sharing with you using my emotional expression, what I'm doing, why I'm doing it. OK, so I'm sharing thoughts, feelings, rationale. Two, I'm reading you. So I'm picking up.

[00:07:03] What do you consider to be a trust deposit? Like what if our bank account of trust? What is something I can do that makes you feel good about us and our relationship? So it might be an act of service. It might be coming to you in advance of something and giving you a heads up ahead of time, whatever that is. But it has to be what you count as a trust deposit. So I'm reading you to figure that out.

[00:07:30] And then I'm responding with capabilities and results, because we could have somebody who has very good intent who says yes to everything. But if nothing gets done and their track record is bad, I'm not going to trust them the next time they say yes, they will do it on time. Mm hmm. So you have to have all of those factors, integrity, intent, capabilities and results.

[00:07:57] The episodes I've done have been based on, well, with somebody who records with Charles Feltman. Charles Feltman wrote the Thin Book of Trust. His four elements are sincerity, reliability, competence and care. And there's like they're similar. Similar. Yeah. And in a low trust world, this is so important. So how do we learn influence? How do we go about learning influence?

[00:08:27] I would say it starts with EQ. And so I would recommend somebody take an EQI assessment. It's a self only. You can go online, answer some questions, but it gives you a baseline of where you're starting from. It gives you a sense of your ability to recognize yourself, your emotional self-awareness. It gives you a baseline of your emotional expression. How transparent are you to others?

[00:08:54] Because, of course, transparency is a key piece of trust and influence. Yeah. So that's a great place to start is to take an EQI, go through it, really internalize it and then start noticing other people and how they're reacting to you. And then what do they need from you? There's times that in HR, they want your opinion. But there's other times they just want you to hear them out and they want to brainstorm out loud.

[00:09:23] There's other times they want you to say, okay, well, if you go with this approach, here's what I see the risk is. If you go with this approach, here's what I see the risk is. Here's a third way. And they want more of like a professional opinion on the risk and let them decide. They don't want you to be the one deciding. Those things all build relationships and influence.

[00:09:48] So in HR, we have to deliver bad news, reinforce an unpopular decision. How do we do this using an EQ lens? Yeah. How do we do this well with an EQ lens? I can tell you how not to do it. Okay. I'm thinking of all the nots.

[00:10:13] I remember there was a time when I was working inside a company, inside their corporate learning and development group. And we had employees that worked in a call center. So they were working all hours, you know, into the evening hours. And my assignment are my peers and I all were assigned different groups. And I have a customer care group in my, and the company was sponsoring like a dinner party,

[00:10:42] you know, at one of those, you know, a Dave and Buster's activity center type thing. And so there was an event going on, but, you know, half the team was working that night. So it wasn't like we closed the call center for that meeting for the party. And somebody came and asked me if I would work late that night and do a training class for the group that was working. And I remember saying, oh, sure. You guys all go and have fun at the party and I'll stay home and work.

[00:11:11] And I was kind of doing it like sarcastically. Right. You're kind of joking. Yeah, but it definitely wasn't taken like that. And before long, I'm getting called into my boss's office and he's like, what happened there? Because they're saying, isn't this your job you're supposed to be doing? You know, and so everybody sarcasm is like so tricky. You have to be so careful with sarcasm.

[00:11:38] And so, you know, we sometimes try to, when we're delivering bad news, we're trying to lighten the mood. It's like, we have to be really careful that our tone. And then that was in the days when we were in person all the time. Imagine doing that virtual, right? On an email or an instant message or a Slack or a Zoom.

[00:12:00] So it is helpful to be careful to avoid sarcasm whenever possible, because I think it just gets misinterpreted really easy. Mm-hmm. The other example I'm thinking of happened to an employee of mine. When she was in a company, their company issued holiday bonuses at the end of the year. So it was like a standing thing based on the company's profit or whatever.

[00:12:25] And it was getting later in the year and no one had heard about the bonuses. And she was asking her boss, who was the VP of HR, hey, have you heard anything? My team is asking, do we know if we're getting bonuses this year or when they're coming? And she said, you know, I'm so sick of hearing about these bonuses. Does anyone think it doesn't affect me? I have a brand new special order BMW sitting on the lot waiting for me to get my bonus. So I'm on top of it, okay?

[00:12:54] I'll let you guys know as soon as possible when we're getting on. Yikes. I know. And I think it was her attempt to try and like show empathy, right? I'm with you guys. But it just fell so flat. She was like, my employees are trying to buy Christmas gifts for their children. They're trying to, you know, plan and not buy a new car. You know, this wasn't the bonus. Or you and your BMW. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:20] So be careful, you know, trying to show empathy when you're delivering bad news. Again, I think we're back to you have to have the assertiveness to be direct enough to give the bad news or deliver, enforce an unpopular policy. But you need to do it with empathy. So they have the support there. And you offer them, hey, I'm here. I'm willing to listen. But this is what's happening.

[00:13:49] And I owe it to you to tell you the truth. We sometimes put our own discomfort above what is in their best interest to hear. I avoid that difficult conversation because it's uncomfortable for me. It's uncomfortable for everybody, right? Nobody wants to deliver bad news. But I might avoid it out of my own concern for discomfort. And it's at the cost of something they really need to hear.

[00:14:17] And so I can't, I have to use my EQ to say, I owe it to them to tell them this. Mm-hmm. So empathy plays a role. But so the BMW is her attempt to empathize. Yes. Like terrible. How, what it does affective empathy look like in that stressful conversation?

[00:14:44] Well, I think it's validating why someone might be concerned or why they're asking. You know, it's being able to say, you know, tell me, tell me what the concerns are that you're hearing. What do you think their frame of mind is on this right now? And if the, if she'd heard, well, they're wondering if they're gonna, you know, how they're going to pay for Christmas. They're wondering what they're going to do for, you know, groceries, whatever it is.

[00:15:11] It gives that person a little bit more power than to come back and say, okay, I've been there. When I started at this company way back when, I remember those days. And so you may not have to have an identical experience, but you can at least get in the frame of mind of where they're coming from to say, I know that this is a stressful time for them waiting to hear. Let me see what more I can find out.

[00:15:38] There's not empathizing by sharing your own stress. It's right. It's reflecting back. Yes. It's cognitive empathy instead of experiential empathy. Oh. Right. Yay. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. Um, now another, like HR is constantly caught between employees who think HR should defend

[00:16:05] them and leaders who want HR to execute on the business. And they're the ones with the organizational power. Uh-huh. How does, um, EQ and or influence play a role in these tense situations? I mean, I get it even on the channel. Really? Where people are telling me on the channel that this is HR's job to do such and such when, you know, we are accountable to the organization and leaders. Yeah, I know.

[00:16:35] It is a balancing act. There's no question about it. And, and to have good employee relations, associate relations, to have engaged workers, they need to feel like they can trust HR and can go to HR to advocate for them. But vice versa, right? The company's has you there to protect the organization against, you know, risk and liability.

[00:17:01] So, um, it takes a special person, I think, to be a really solid HR professional these days. And being, and, you know, we're kind of back to being present in the moment of which, you know, can I represent the company well? Can I protect the assets without, um, making this employee feel like they're not important at all? They're just a cog in the wheel.

[00:17:29] I have another story, um, a client of mine who was in HR and they were doing layoffs and she was in a role where she was an interim global chief of HR. And, um, sadly they had a group that was attached to a product that was discontinued. So they were laying that group off. There was an employee in that group who was planning to retire because she'd worked there for 32 years, but sadly she was having to be laid off before her retirement.

[00:17:58] And in her exit interview, she asked the HR person if she could keep her employee badge because it had her picture on it that was taken on her first day of work. And she said, this would be a nice souvenir of my 32 years with the company if I could have this. But you could, you know, a lot of organizations use that badge as a security feature, right?

[00:18:25] It opens doors and it's got things built into the card key. So it's, it's something they usually collect back at the time of an, of an exit. And the HR person said, you know, I'm really sorry, but it's, it's one of the things I have to take back. I can't let you keep it. And she went back to her department after the meeting. She was very upset about it, complained.

[00:18:50] And now this HR person is being called badgezilla behind her back. Yes. And I heard this story. It actually made its way up the chain. The senior vice president heard about it. The CEO heard about it. And I thought, you know, I get it because on one hand, I can't blame her. She's totally following the policy. She's protecting the organization. She's doing what she needs to do.

[00:19:18] But on the other hand, did she have options to make this employee who had given 32 years of her life to the company to feel better about it? Maybe, you know. Could she have made a copy of the badge in some way? Could she have deactivated it in a way that it wouldn't have caused a problem? I mean, she's the global chief of HR at the moment. Could she just make an exception? You know?

[00:19:42] So I think having the flexibility in the moment, you know, it's discerning what's happening in front of me. And when do I maybe need to go off script? When do I need to get out of my own comfort zone in following the rules all the way to make something happen for this person? All right. What's a common mistake you see people making in an effort to be influential? Assumption.

[00:20:11] I think we make a lot of assumptions about someone else's motives or what they want. We might also struggle a little bit with putting burden on other people to, you know, do what seems very logical to us. Mm hmm. This is a no brainer. Why wouldn't you do this? And we don't take the time to really explain.

[00:20:39] We don't approach it in more of a consultative way, which is, you know, here are your options. I have an opinion on which option I think you should take. But in the end, this is your decision to make. And here's what I see your risks are of these different or upside and risk of these different choices. And so I think we have to surrender that, you know, I am the subject matter expert on this. I need to let, you know, even that leader that's not holding someone accountable.

[00:21:07] It seems so obvious to us what is going on here. Why isn't this person being held accountable? But if we can slow down and ask a few more questions and really explore what's behind them, not in maybe it's fear of conflict. Maybe it is too much empathy, you know, until I've really understood the root cause of it, it's hard for me to influence them to go in a certain direction. Mm hmm.

[00:21:35] Something I've seen people do in an effort to be influential that's backfired is what you talked about. Maybe it was in the other episode where I'm doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on their strength. Yes. Yes. And so they just keep doing the same thing over and over. It was successful once. Do it again. Recognizing that circumstances have changed now. Stepping back. What does it take to be influential here?

[00:22:06] Yeah. That old, you know. And as soon as it stops working, that should be a clue. No. What you've done before. That should be a clue that you need to step back. But yeah. So often we don't. It happens when we change companies too. You know, what we were rewarded for at the last place and the behavior that was perfectly acceptable. You take to the new job and suddenly it's not working. And you're thinking to yourself, how can this not work? This is like a core strength of mine. This is something I've been recognized for.

[00:22:35] So you double down on it and you miss the signs that are like, no, this does not work in this culture. Mm hmm. Yeah, that's that's also very true. OK. Where can someone learn more about being more influential in an organization and using EQ to do that? So there's a lot of resources on my website, which is penumbra.com.

[00:23:01] I also have articles on my LinkedIn page on being more influential. So you can find those there. I also have a podcast called Ego versus EQ and You. And we deep dive into emotional intelligence and all the ways to apply it, both at work and at home. So there's a lot of resources available. Many of them are free or no cost, low cost. So OK, I hope people check it out. Yeah. OK, I will.

[00:23:30] Before one more question, that EIQI test. Yes, that's probably not free. That one is not free, but I have a sample of it that can be downloaded for free. And that gives you a really good report on the 15 EQ skills. So you'll see the definition of them and some development tips for each one. And that is free. OK, I'm going to put a link to that. Well, thanks, Jen. I'm thinking about trust again. It comes up so often.

[00:24:00] And as an outcome of EQ, it's just so important because it releases the wheels. So that's what I'm thinking about. You people out there, the audience, what are you thinking about? Share in the comments. Jen and I also did a basic episode on emotional intelligence. And a link is beside me or you can find it in my list of episodes. Thanks for watching out there. We'll see you next time.