073: Stop Playing Small - Unlocking Emerging Talent

[00:01:04] Hey, what's going on everybody? David Noe with SpeakEasy HR presented by Payroll Partners. We are back for another episode, episode 73. We're just rolling along here with this season of podcasting and brand new guest to talk about a really fascinating topic and I'm really excited to have him on. So Frank Kitchen, welcome to SpeakEasy HR. How are you?

[00:01:31] I'm doing great, David. Thanks for having me here. It's been a been Нah what? We've been talking for a while before we got on here, so it's great to be here. Yeah, that is the norm when I talked to people and then it's like, hey you want to come on? It might be six months from now, but that's that's how the bookings going with this so it's it's. I'm very blessed and fortunate to have such a long list of people that have said yes to an episode. And so now we get a chance to actually talk and get through your topic and bring your

[00:01:59] insights to SpeakEasy HR. So for folks that don't know you, Frank, if you want to tell people about your background, kind of what you've been into and what you're focused on right now. Yeah. So my name is Frank Kitchen. The last name is spelled just like the room in the house. And I joke around with people that I say, hey, I work with professionals at every level who want to stop playing small and cook up the success they're hungry for. And when I'm speaking, it's not really, quote, speaking into my journal or my diary.

[00:02:30] But for me, throughout my career, whether it be a professional speaker, I've been a retail manager, I've been a trainer, all the times I played smalls because I didn't really have anybody in my life to really try to bring the best out of me. So when I became a speaker about 20 years ago, I was like, hey, you know what? I want to work with groups where they're working to pull the best out of people and challenge them to achieve their best versus a lot of times we blame those people for not achieving their best. And it's not their fault. It's the organization or the leadership who didn't

[00:03:00] pour into them to build them up. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, leadership and people in leadership, nobody's perfect. You know, people make mistakes, people fumble through their career and owning a business. And so I think the more and more that I'm around business owners and like-minded people, like I get to hear their stories about how they did it all. And so I think the insights that you

[00:03:25] have to talk today in this topic, I think will be really fascinating. And I hope people learn and take away something or many things that they can really apply to their day to day. So, so you are out in what part of the country? You're out in Arizona? Yeah. I'm out in Phoenix, Arizona. So I've been out here now. It's crazy. Been out here 19 years. Used to be closer to you. Used to be out in Ohio before I moved out this way. There you go. It's, it's pretty hot here today. Actually, I'm in, I'm in Kentucky. We have

[00:03:54] 85 degree weather. It's been up and down, but I've been out to Arizona. I was there last year with my wife and it was April. It was really nice weather. I'm sure you're starting to see the heat come through and yeah, you, you actually might be hotter than us today. I think we're sitting at about 84 today. So, okay. Okay. Yeah, no, it's, uh, it's about that time. Kids are getting out of school. It's going to be summer break and people are going to be traveling a lot. So, um, so when

[00:04:19] you were growing up, Frank, um, you know, what, what did you want to do? Like after school, like what in fifth grade, you know, what do you want to do when you grow up kind of thing? Yeah. Well, I think at fifth grade is that typical piece where we all wanted to be like, either, you know, the astronaut or some type of, you know, sports athlete that was, you know, the area to go, but I wasn't necessarily, you know, gifted with those talents. But as I was getting older, I always had the ability to take, if you want to say, quote, complex

[00:04:46] ideas or subjects and teach it to people. So as I started to, to grow up, grow up, I got involved with a couple of leadership organizations at a college. And then also I was working retail. And many times I was a guy who was matched up with the newbie to teach them how to perform, you know, at their best. So I go, you know, it's like, I really love to get in some type of maybe it's teaching or training. So it's trying to discover what that would be. And the funny one was I have a advisor in college. Her name is Retta. And when I was about to

[00:05:15] graduate, I was bringing her my resumes, asking her to review my resumes and she, she, she gave me ideas. But then all of a sudden I started getting these letters in saying, Hey, decline, decline, decline. And I went back to her. I was like, I'm getting all these letters back saying I'm declined for these jobs, not enough experience yet. What's, what's going on? She goes, well, Hey, after I reviewed your resume, she goes, I sent them out to employers that I thought would be good for you. She goes, you've got a real talent for, you know, working with people and training people. So I saw these different training positions.

[00:05:43] So that was like, kind of like the first, you know, piece that, you know, jumped into like, Oh wait, there's opportunities to go work and train with people in development. So I thought maybe it's going to be an HR position or something there. And then it was funny. Last week I was in Las Vegas and my mentor, his name is Jim. Jim was in Vegas and we met up for dinner and we were talking and the big spot that really opened my eyes up and I was telling them, Hey, it's like 30

[00:06:09] some years later, I'm teaching what you taught us was there's a company's KB toy stores in the mall and I'm in college and I'm, you know, working and I went to go work at this toy store. And Jim was trying to push me into a management position. Like, no, I got to go to college. I got to go do this. But he had all these cashiers around him and he goes, Hey, my goal is I don't want to be recognized for my sales. I'll be recognized for the people that I promote. Yes. My goal is to get all of you, your own store. And we're like, what is this guy smoking? What's he on? Everybody in that

[00:06:38] meeting got their own store. And from that point, that kind of set me on this trail of what do I do to one is, you know, cook up the success that I'm hungry for, which is I want to be in a leadership role and be able to give my input. But the same point is, well, how do I bring others along with me? So speaking piece, this is going on 20 years this summer, but I realized I've been in development and training for 30 plus years now. And the whole piece is the part that gives me goosebumps is when

[00:07:05] people go, Hey, we can tell they work with Frank because they've got confidence and belief in themselves, or you're able to turn that group around to achieve a result that we weren't expecting. And that's what brings me joy. That's awesome. We are live on YouTube, LinkedIn, and Frank, I believe you have your, your accounts posted and streaming it as well. So if you are watching

[00:07:30] live, have a question for Frank chime in to the comment section would love to hear from you and would, would definitely appreciate your insights or just comments as we go along the way. So throw your questions out there. So, okay, Frank, I asked this, uh, uh, of all the guests, biggest piece of advice you've ever received in your career. The biggest piece of advice in my career got my good friend. He's there in Ohio. His name is Roger Campbell. And he told me this on stage. And I think this goes for life. He goes, um,

[00:08:00] can you be the Frank on stage that you are off stage? And what that means is let's work to be the best version of ourself because too many times we try to hold ourselves back to, you know, either fit into a group or to, you know, just acclimate. And I believe that hurts us. And I'll be honest, there's peace. I I've been fired. I've lost jobs, you know, because I settled, I, I tried to conform and become

[00:08:27] that person that the organization want me to be. And that's not who I was where my grandfather is always a person just kind of saying is like, Hey, you know what? Be the best version of yourself show that you've got some, uh, you know, quote, his word was gumption, but some assertiveness, you know, if I go see David in a meeting and you go, what's, where do you see yourself in the future frame? Like, I would like to have your position. It's not saying I want your position now, but it's saying, Hey, that's what I strive to go and be. And I worked for a couple of employers where when I stated

[00:08:54] that they go, you're too ambitious. I'm like, well, how can I be too ambitious? So then I toned that down, went to other employers and I got let off or fired and to go, you're not ambitious enough. So I started to recognize what Roger was teaching me was, I'm like, if I'm going to do anything in life, I'm going to go down with my best punch. So I'd rather say, Hey, you know what? I gave my best. I gave my all. It didn't work out. It wasn't meant to be versus, you know what? I tried to conform to that organization or group and I got fired and I wish I could have, could have gone back and

[00:09:22] change, you know, no, no more wish I could as type of thing. So it's like, Hey, be the best version of yourself, show your creativity, show your expertise, be willing to put the hand and say, Hey, I've got an idea because if not, then you get passed over. And it looks like, you know, you don't want it. And I'll just add one more thing to it. Working retail. I thought I was up for a management position. I didn't get it. Some other people got it. And here's the big piece. What Roger taught me was I went to the manager and I go, Hey, how come I didn't get that promotion?

[00:09:49] And they go, you never asked for it. You didn't look like you were interested in it. So I realized I was heard myself. I'm the guy who asked tons of questions, but that point I'm like, Oh, they'll find me. They'll see the work that I'm going to do. So be the best version of yourself. Don't try to be anybody else. Be the best version of you. I'm going to give you a mini air horn for that. The one and only SpeakEasy HR mini horn. So no, that's great. All right. So the world famous

[00:10:15] envelope icebreaker game. This is something I started at the beginning of this podcast. The first episode I did it and it's evolved. So we're going to transition to that. Hold on one second.

[00:10:38] Oh, there we go. Okay. So one through 15, pick a number and we're going to see what you pick. I'm going to go with my favorite number four. Number four. All right. Frank's got number four. And this is what's something recent that made you laugh out loud.

[00:11:04] I said last week was in Las Vegas for a conference speaking, brought my son with me. So made it a father son trip. We're driving back and like, Hey, let's go see the Hoover dam. Get off the exit to go. And there is a donkey walking down the middle of the street. So I'm taking my son to go see the dam and we see a donkey walking down. So we got some pictures and videos of which here's the funny part. Not the fact that the donkey was going down the street was I took pictures and friends go, Frank, what have you seen today? What's going on? And I sent the picture back of the donkey,

[00:11:34] but because I was so busy taking a picture, I didn't realize what the picture was. And let's just put this way. The, the, the donkey was very excited. So I'm going to go, Hey, it's like, what's up with that picture. And if I like look at the picture, I'm like, yeah, awesome. That was an HR issue. Oh, no, that's great. Well, thanks for, for playing that. Okay. So rapid fire questions.

[00:12:01] And we're going to slowly get into your topic here today, which is stop playing small, unlocking emerging talent. So rapid fire questions, biggest limiter of emerging talent, fear or lack of clarity. Fear. Fear. One word leaders should embody to unlock talent. Empower. Promote potential early or wait

[00:12:27] for proof. Promote potential early. Okay. More important mentorship or strength or stretch opportunities. Mentorship. Okay. And then finish this. People start playing bigger when they. Oh, get off the bench. I mean, there we go. We're going to get off the bench. There you go. That's awesome. All right. Just a couple of messages from our sponsor payroll partners,

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[00:14:17] Look us up, look me up on LinkedIn. We'd be happy to hear and talk about your situation. So, all right, Frank, just like everybody else with this, we take a look at your background and we take a look at what the guest wants to bring. And so we kind of get creative with this and trying to get a topic that really will hit the mark and help people learn and grow within their organization

[00:14:42] and in their personal situation. So we are live on LinkedIn. If you have a question for Frank along the way, please chime in. All right. So Frank, when you hear playing small, what does that actually look like in today's workplace? Well, like you said, playing small, we had the quick questions coming up. That's fear. And I think the big piece isn't a skills gap right now. It's a belief gap. And with so many of these employers I'm watching, like when me and my wife walk into stores and

[00:15:12] businesses is you recognize that we're not training people now to be leaders. We're not empowering them to do something bigger. So we're causing this area where they're going to be playing small. Let me just show up, you know, punch in, punch out, and I'm done because we're not seeing any reward for giving extra effort. You know, we're working people more hours, but not necessarily compensating them. We're not hiring from inside our organization. So why should I go play, play bigger? Yeah.

[00:15:40] You know, so you're not creating any of that loyalty because I'm like, okay, what's my opportunities? Or the case is in my area, if you quote, step out of line and you don't conform, then they may get rid of you also. So that creates, you know, fear there. So what are the opportunities that we're providing for people? If there's no opportunities, then that just creates fear and lack of belief. Yep. And that's what I hear when I talk to people about when I'm, when I'm interviewing people, I'm like, what are you not getting that you want in your next job? And it's opportunities

[00:16:10] to grow and learn and develop. So very important to have that. So what causes high potential talent to hold back even when they're capable of more? So when the doorbell rings, that holds people back there. I hope so. Well, that's the beauty of live interviews, right? So hitting the doorbell out there. But the big piece back to your question is as far as that

[00:16:40] potential is early on, as I said, back to when we talked about Jim earlier, we don't have somebody stating what their true goals is saying, Hey, you know what? I want to promote you. I want to give you more opportunities. That's the first piece of the belief saying that we see, see more in people. The idea is like, we're almost trying to treat everybody like a number and just to fill a slot versus joking with my last name is like, are we creating a shopping list of what we need? So if you and I are about to go do a barbecue, you're gonna say, Hey, Frank, here's what we need for

[00:17:08] that barbecue. But if the employers are just hiring people, it's like, well, why did you bring that person on? How do they align with the overall goal of the organization or the business? And we have to stop making it strictly about the business because those people they've got who come in, they've got their own belief and value system. They're either trying to take care of their kids, get a house, pay off the bills, go on a vacation. What's their motivators? Are we doing enough to really find out about those people's either intrinsic or extrinsic motivations

[00:17:37] and how they align with the company? But it's just more, Hey, top down, just do whatever the company says. We're not pushing. We're not challenging. We're not even training people. And when you train people, you show you care. So we're not sure we care about people. So guess what? They're not going to recognize their potential. Yeah. Yeah. You hit it on the mark right there with knowing your people and their motivations and their interests. You know, if you know someone's hobby or you know, someone's just

[00:18:05] ask them about something non-work related. Like if they have, you know, kids or, you know, something exciting going on in their life, like you will see their light, their face light up when you, when you ask them something about non-work related stuff sometimes. And so just building that trust with the team and helping them show, helping them really understand that you're there to, to help them grow and help them learn and just not be fearful of growth and fearful of,

[00:18:34] you know, the unknown. Like I think just fear, as you talked about before, like it just holds people back and they get used to a routine and they get used to a, a, a, you know, daily process of their job. And it's like, it just, it keeps them in that until something changes and they just either want it for themselves or they get potentially an opportunity to take on more. So, so how much of playing small is on the individual versus the organization? Would you say?

[00:19:03] Ooh, that's, I would love to say 50, 50, but I'm going to go over and just like, you know, really be challenging to say it's on the individual because too many of us are waiting around. When I say wait, I say it means you wish an idea turns out. So we blame and complain about somebody else, but we don't take our own personal responsibility. So if we've got a problem with the employer, then guess what? You can talk to the employer or you can leave. It still comes down to your choice. Yep. You know, don't wait for them. So we have to look ourselves in the eye. And you said about playing small. It's like, what am I doing to get better? It's not up to the employer to do

[00:19:32] trainings for you. Do you go to the HR department and say, Hey, is there a budget to go to this professional development conference? Are you watching YouTube videos? Are you reading books? Are you going to the library? That's not up to the employer to do that's up to you. So if you quote, want to, uh, break up with that employer before they break up with you, then what are you doing to prepare for that? Or if you're trying to get that promotion with the employer, well, what are you doing? So when you do get that job interview, you have to go write the resume. I mean, with AI nowadays, there's so much information out there that you can go and train and people laugh about AI right now

[00:20:01] because everybody thinks we're all using it. But there was a study I listened to a few weeks ago. They said right now there's only 12% of the world is using it and like 2% of companies. So that gives you an, you know, quote, unfair advantage against the competition right now where you can go do all the research to build yourself up and grow. So it's, it's up to us. Yes. The employers need to bring in, they need to pour into us, but that's a small percentage. I'll say it's like 70, 30 on us.

[00:20:24] Yeah. I am live with Frank Kitchen, founder and keynote of Frank Kitchen Enterprises. All right, Frank, what are the early signs a leader is unintentionally limiting emerging talent? Day one. I mean, day one, Becky, you said about asking questions. I love and I've watched different employers where if you're like, you know, you're, you're being onboarded and they bring you in, but I

[00:20:51] had some companies where they took you out for a lunch just to get to know you. You said on the personal side to find out what your motivations, where you'd worked before. So day one, you should be able to know. I mean, I'll throw the name out because people are like, oh, they don't throw names out. There's an enterprise rental car years ago, work for them. And I went in and there's a guy next to me as our first day. And we're standing next to each other. They have the employee meeting to like the kickoff piece and they have the meeting. We're in the meeting. We're dressed up. We're with

[00:21:18] everybody. Then the meeting's over. And then, uh, by the manager comes over like, Hey, how can I help you? That was day one. He and I looked at each other. Like, okay, this won't last long. I think we both lasted three months because guess what? They didn't even know that we were the employees there because it had been done by like, you know, the corporate and then by a smaller group. And then we got sent to like that location. But if we're in the store before it opens and we're dressed like everybody else, you should have an idea that we worked there. Yeah. So are we making people feel

[00:21:45] valued and important on day one? And whether it means we assign them a mentor to walk them through the facility and explain what's going on. If we get a chance to meet with leadership to understand who leadership is, because you get a lot of employers where people didn't even know who, you know, you have that undercover boss show years ago, people like that. You don't even know who the boss is. That's, that's a problem. Yeah. You know, explain it. So what are we doing to really onboard people to show day one that, Hey, we value you being here. Hey, here's the new person. We're bringing

[00:22:12] them in. It's not, Hey, it's just a new person. This is Frank. We had a chance to talk and Frank's got two kids and Frank lives. We have to show people they're valuable from day one. And that's what tends to be the problem is we don't express like the goals, why we brought them in, connecting with people and say, Hey, here's the potential you have for being here. You know, it's going to take some time, but here's where you can be day one. And personalize it, personalize that experience for people. It's going to go a long way, even though you don't even think about it sometimes. And when I hire people,

[00:22:42] I feel like the first week they have a lot going on, but we take them to lunch the first day. We, you know, really get them acclimated. They get to meet the team. They get to meet our owner. And it's just, it's, it's personalized to an extent. So, um, okay. So what's one moment or shift that typically unlocks someone to start thinking bigger? I believe the first piece is when you do have either you call it that leader,

[00:23:07] that coworker, that mentor employee who shows belief in them. You need somebody to come and unlock you and say, Hey, you know what? If you keep doing this, you could be here in a few weeks, a few months, a few years, just hearing that from somebody besides yourself, because yeah, we have to talk to ourselves, do our affirmations and go and do, but when you can hear it from somebody else, that's when things change. Like for me, um, when I started my speaking career,

[00:23:33] I had gotten fired on father's day and I had this belief that I could be a speaker, but when I got fired, it was father's day weekend. And I'd time for a speaker showcase. And my wife goes, take my dad with you. So I had to go take my father-in-law to the speaker showcase. You know, work is on the line right there. And he came and he watched. And then we went back to his house and during the conversation, he goes, Hey, Frank, I love what I saw. And he goes, um, this will be the hardest thing you ever have to do, but I believe you can

[00:23:59] do it. That just opened my mind up right there because I, I believed I could do it. But when you had somebody who had probably every right to say, Hey, give up, go find something real. Cause you know, my, my wife is as young as a daughter and you know, we've got his grandkids and he goes, I believe you can do this. That was a sign of leadership right there. So for us, we can't wait until the review because too many employers, they, they wait to the review. We are quick to criticize people, but slow to recognize. So like, Oh, you know what?

[00:24:27] In six months or their 90 day probation or their one year, we'll let them know how good they are. But by that point, they've already written the, I quit letter or they've already left. So if we see people doing something good or showing potential, we've got the belief, we've got to let them know right then and there. And once they see that they're going to go home, talk to their husband or wife, you know, their kids, like, guess what? You know, my boss or my employer said they, they believe me to say, if I keep doing this, there's potential to get this new project or get this piece here, get promoted. Maybe go travel to another country. If it's an

[00:24:56] international group, it's up to the leader of that group to start to share people like what they see. And we have to pull that potential out. Yep. Definitely giving you an air horn on that one. That one's great. Okay. So how should leaders balance giving opportunity versus expecting initiative? Ooh, so that is a great question. And the best piece I want to say is you said earlier about mentor, but there's something even better than mentor. There's a case where we can

[00:25:25] identify people pretty early on as if they've got either high level skills or maybe even leadership abilities. And it's almost a piece of, I worked for a company, I saw them do this. They said, okay, every supervisor nominate at least one employee feel that they've got potential to grow in this company. And then what they did was they had a weekly, you know, professional development meeting where it's like, okay, we're going to teach you all the skills, almost like an incubator within the company. We're going to teach you the skills. So when a position does open up,

[00:25:54] all of you will be ready. It's only like five or six people. Yeah. But then guess what? A lot of people did get promoted. So they actually were working from within the company to make people better. So as soon as that potential is displayed or is expressed like, okay, well, guess what? We're going to have to put you in this leadership incubator right here. So if somebody does leave or gets promoted, we can go ahead and fill in from within. So almost consider it. My wife always talks about, it's almost like the minor leagues. We've got the professional team, but do we have a

[00:26:19] triple A, a double A, a single A? What are we doing to really develop those people before they get into that spot? And we hear it in baseball all the time. We're sending that person back to the minors because they're not getting enough skills here at playing time. Let's go ahead and send them back down to make sure they can further develop that skill. So then when we do put them in that spot, they are better and ready to go. So are we doing that within our employment? Yep, definitely. So what role does feedback play in helping someone stop playing small and

[00:26:47] what are leaders getting wrong about it? Got it. Well, the first piece when we talk about feedback is it doesn't only have to come from the leader. It can come from us when you talked about the initiative earlier. We should be going out to seek feedback. Like it's scary. Like when I speak at the end of the speech, there's a QR code up on the screen and I asked the audience, what is your feedback? And they tell me what they like, what could be changed, what they didn't like. And I've got to have, you know, thick enough skin to understand if people are providing feedback, it's because they care.

[00:27:16] If nobody's providing feedback, that means they don't care. So for our first piece is if we want to know how well we're doing, we have to go ask for the feedback from the leader or the organization. But at the same point, the organization has to model this. So they need to go and make sure, hey, it could be quote, a weekly meeting, a monthly meeting, figure out where we provide feedback. Hey, here's what I saw that I liked. And here's an opportunity for growth. Don't say, hey, here's what you're good at. Here's what you suck at. Cause that's what too many companies go. It's like,

[00:27:44] you're bad at this, this, this, this. Okay. Hands in go team. That doesn't motivate anybody. It's strengths and opportunities. What are you doing really well? And where's your opportunity to get better? And we have to figure out some timing on where to do it. So when I used to work with college leaders, we had a point on the calendar where we would meet once a month to have some feedback conversations to say, Hey, here's what's working. Now, if we talk and communicate, you know, cause I saw most of these people every week and they say, Hey, that meeting doesn't have

[00:28:11] to happen. We've already had enough feedback during the week that we could push it off. But as a case where we put it on the calendar to provide some opportunity, and it wasn't just for me to give feedback to them. They gave me feedback on my leadership skills so I could be better. Essentially we're giving out the answers to the test. So feedback is something that's good and it needs to happen, you know, all the time. And I share with people, it's almost like a quote, my last name's kitchen taste testing. Yeah. If we're cooking right now and I explain to you where

[00:28:39] my goals are, where I want to go, then I'm going to say, Hey, can you sample this? Give me your honest feedback. You're going to tell me what I need to hear, not what I want to get me to where I want to go. So we got to ask ourselves, whether it be us, do we have some taste testers within our, you know, workplace right now where we can go to them for feedback on a consistent basis? All my feedback partners I meet with once a week or better yet, as that leader, we have to teach it. Hey, a lot of people think feedback is always negative. So early on, we bring people in and it's like, Hey, guess what?

[00:29:08] We're going to have a point where we're going to provide feedback because we want you to grow. Feedback is a growth ingredient, not a, you know, a negative, you know, it's not something that's going to put you down. We're not trying to pour water on the fire. We're trying to fuel you up. So we need to have these, you know, moments of feedback, call it a name, feedback meetings, where we're going to give people honest conversations on what they can do to get better and what they're doing very well.

[00:29:31] Yeah. No, that's great. I love, I love the way that you just said all that. And I think if, if somebody gets consistent feedback, good and bad, I think it eliminates the fear of making a mistake because I, I, I think you have to give people a chance to make mistakes. And if they're too fearful to make a mistake, they're going to probably make more mistakes. So, and we know if you're,

[00:29:58] you know, you know, I say good enough. So we got to find a better word for that one. If you are a very, you know, in tune leader, you're going to know when people need to fail. And then when you got to jump in and make sure they don't fail, cause it impacts everybody. And I had a leader that I worked with, I was, you know, helping out mentoring. And she sat next to me at one point, she goes, Hey, Frank, she goes, you knew her that was going to fail. Didn't you? I'm like, yes. And she goes, and you let us fail. I go, yes. And she goes, you didn't even try to stop us. Like, nope.

[00:30:29] And she goes, you did it because you know, we won't do it again. Right. And like, yep. And, and that was the end of the conversation. That was the best learning lesson. And I said, I was like, Hey, I was like, if I would have jumped in there, fixed the problem. Cause I was like, I could see the problem a mile away. I was like, but if I would have fixed the problem, like you would have never seen or understand it. So there's points where we need to fail. That's feedback. Also feedback, you know, failures, feedback to where we can go back through and understand most of us, the reason we're good at something is because we burned something in the

[00:30:54] past. So we can go back and tell people like, well, Hey, don't do this. And usually when I get either emerging or experienced professionals who are stuck and like, what should I go and do is like, Hey, go seek out feedback. Cause I can, the feedback you need to do is somebody you look up to, or, you know, you want to mentor you or somebody you see online. I was like, go up and ask them as I can, here's the feedback you want. What's the biggest, the mistake that they made and what did they learn from it? I was like, don't ask people about their successes, ask about their failures. I was like that way you don't repeat that failure, but that speeds up the process for you.

[00:31:23] Yep. Yeah. There's so many good questions that I, I generally try to ask something about in, in, you know, the phone interview process, when I'm talking to people, it's like, you know, what's been your biggest accomplishment projects you've been on all that stuff, you know? And if we get to the point of bringing them in for a, for an in-person meeting, you know, it's, it's, where did you fail? Where did you improve? Like, what, what did you learn from

[00:31:51] that? Like, we, we know people make mistakes. Like if they made mistakes and they got fired, you know, I, I look at resumes and I'm like, how did they go from job to job to job in the last six year? You know, I hear about them weekly where people have mass layoffs still, you know? And so people are still getting laid off through, um, a variety of reasons, but, but yeah, I mean the,

[00:32:20] the, the amount of failure and how people learn from that, I mean, getting people out of their comfort zone, they will grow making mistakes. They will grow. So, um, that's what organizations have to do to, to, to, to keep people motivated. Um, so, okay, Frank, so how can an organization create an environment where emerging talent feels safe to step up and take risks?

[00:32:48] Got it. Well, before I answer that question, you, you brought up something a second ago about interviews. So this kind of ties in with this question and you're talking about the questions that you ask and I've, I've got to, you know, just, you know, beat my, beat the drum really quick for everybody watching, listening to this. When you do do interviews and you start to make your top 10 list of questions, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, do not do them in order. I mean, that's, that helps answer your question right there as far as how we're going to

[00:33:14] help these people grow because guess what? We may ask question one and question 10, maybe the next question that follows along with it. We don't have to go in order. And when we're going to ask people, don't ask them yes or no questions because that's pretty easy. I love to ask for stories or experiences so we can better understand the context of why they either are coming here to work or why they left it. And then better yet during the interview process, if these people are coming in, this goes back to your question. There's too many people right now. And you're saying about

[00:33:40] from, you know, one board, bring these people in, we're in this piece of saying that people are overqualified. Well, guess what? They wouldn't be applying there if they didn't want to work there. I mean, that's something we have to think about from day one, because I had a friend recently was watching the thing on LinkedIn, had lost her employment, but she had gone through cancer. But then it was like reaching out for different places. And it goes, all the places are coming back saying, Hey, you know what? Overqualified, overqualified. So it goes, thanks for making the choice for me. She was reaching out for a place that she wanted to work

[00:34:10] that is going to align with her personal health and also that she wanted to stay in her state. So back to your question, we're saying, okay, what can we do to really, you know, bring these people along is what are the questions we're asking from day one? Because some of the questions that we ask are going to, you know, turn people off or say, okay, this is not the right spot for me. So during the interview process, or as you said, we start to go, it's like, yeah. So, you know, how long do you plan on staying here? That's you already communicated that you think that they're

[00:34:40] going to leave. So they're going like, okay, they must not want me here. You know, what's going on? You know, why, why did you apply here? Guess what? They want it to be there. It should be like, Hey, what do you feel that you can bring here to us? What skills or talents? So I think it's up to the employers and the businesses to get better with their questions. That's going to help out because that really impacts the mindset of the person either during the interview process,

[00:35:07] or once they get in is the, some of the questions that we're asking them, are there questions of empowerment or questions of belittling people. And if we're belittling people right off the bat, they're already now going to get ready for the next interview or for the next job, because they're going like, man, you should hear some of the questions that they're asking me right now. Cause as you said, Oh, you've had six employers before. It's like, you know, so how long do you plan on being here? What you think? And then you tell them like, Hey, those jobs, like they left,

[00:35:35] they might have to step out as a poor employer, poor boss case of me. I worked for employer where that person, I didn't do a legal stuff. They ended up in federal, federal penitentiary. Guess what? That was the reason that I left. I'm like, I didn't want to end up in jail either. So I think it just comes down to what are the questions that we're asking early on, even during the process of right now, cause they talk about all the college graduates, it's college graduation season, just even on the applications, upload your resume,

[00:36:01] but then you have this 20 minute Q and a, it's like, well, you want them to fill out this 20 minute, 30 minute question of which everything is already on the resume, but you want them to have the resume. So you already made the process of even trying to go apply for you painful. So why do I want to be there? Yep. You know, versus, you know, it's working with some college students. Hey, if we're doing like a marketing group or whatever, it's like, then guess what? Put together a 20 minute video of me and how you'd market my company. Boom. That's a better thing than, you know, some of the process

[00:36:31] that we do with these, you know, questionnaires or these websites will go here. We want somebody who's very unique, very different, but then we make them all fill out the same application, which allows us not to differentiate yourself from anybody. Or we let a computer AI goes filter through it. And like, I always would go down to HR and say, Hey, I want all the applications and I want to look at it. I'm like, well, Frank, we've got the computer search student. Like, no, it's like there's certain words and things that I'm looking for that the computer will never find. Your computer is trying to find either the word management or leadership. I want to find out how they work with people before, because this is a people position.

[00:37:01] Yep. That's so, so important. And I'm glad you brought all that up because, you know, I think the main reason just from the employer's perspective, I think their first instinct is to look at someone's background. And if they're overqualified, they're probably asking for more money than they can afford and budget for that role. So it is important to share as much as you can on that job posting about the comp, the job description,

[00:37:30] because if someone is applying for a job and they see the comp, hopefully they understand that's the comp. It's not, you know, it's going to, it's not going to be more, it's not going to be probably less, but like, you know, I've looked at resumes and I've said, okay, that person is definitely qualified, probably overqualified. Yep. I'm, I'm questioning how much money they're potentially looking for in that next job. And that is, I think why a lot of people just pass on those kinds of

[00:37:57] people. So again, schedule a call, ask them, say, Hey, you've had 20 years experience. You know, what are you looking for to be excited about the next role? What kind of comp are you looking for? Yeah. And a lot of times people will tell me they're like, Hey, I'm looking for 75 grand a year. I want good benefits and I want a place to grow. Great. I think we can do that potentially. You know, it's like, so again, that, that right there, I think when people look at someone overqualified,

[00:38:24] they're like, Oh, well, they're probably, they're probably looking for way more money. Yeah. And we're losing great candidates because they think it's going to be the money or they're going to leave. But in the case across the street from me right now, my neighbor, he is retired, but he still wants to keep working. He doesn't want to be in the house. It drives, it drives him crazy. He's like, I got to be active. And he's been a management, been in leadership, all these spots, but he just wants something right now to get him out of the house. Yep. Guess what? He's not asking for money. He's got his retirement and social security.

[00:38:52] He's looking for something just to be active, but also close to home. He doesn't want to have to drive 30 minutes, 45 minutes away. But he was telling me we're helping him out one day. He's like, Frank, all these groups keep turning me down. He's like with no, he's like without even the phone call to say, Hey, you know, why are you applying here? And he goes, when he reaches out, they go, it's like, Oh, well you're overqualified or you're too old. You know, and they can't say too old, but they do tell him that. And he just goes, I'm looking for something to get me out of my house two to three days per week. Cause I go, Oh, do you want something full time? He's like,

[00:39:22] no. Like, well, why not? He's like, that's not where he is in his life right now, but he'd make a great employee for somebody because when he goes in, he's been in management leadership before and I've seen him do it. He mentors a lot of the younger employees who are there to tell them what to get ready for, for the next 30 to 40 years of their employment careers. We need those people in the workforce. Yes, absolutely. Okay. Um, a couple more questions. If you are watching live, feel free to chime in,

[00:39:50] ask questions. If, uh, if, if you have any on, on your mind. So Frank, what's the difference between confidence and readiness and how should leaders assess both? All right. So those are definitely two different things. People are going to ask us, you know, you and me, what's the difference? So, so confidence is a belief in yourself and your abilities or your belief to learn certain skills or abilities. So it's a, it's something internal. So that's going to be

[00:40:14] the confidence and it's internal, but it can show externally based off of how we speak, how we carry our, our body language readiness though, is something that you and me as a leader have to understand. Okay. What is their experience level? What are, you know, our expectations are based off of their actions. Have they displayed the actions to say that they're ready for this next step? Okay. I appreciate that you're

[00:40:40] confident, but most people, it takes three months to learn this step. So let me go ahead and train you right now for the next three months. And once you go through there, we'll reevaluate and then we can see if you're ready to step into that spot. So you may be ready for the training piece or the aspect of it, but you might be ready to actually perform and execute. And even back to my sports analogies. I don't know if you've got kids sports, but like my wife goes, how can you tell, like when I help coach our kids sports, there's people that you can look at and you're like, okay, guess what?

[00:41:07] I can see their confidence. I can see their abilities, but they're raw. So they're not ready yet, but watch out in a year, but let's put them in some type of training program to make sure that they're ready. So I had my son's baseball team. We saw these kids in practice and it's like, man, this is sad. And like we lost our first six games, but we said, you know what? We will be a lot better at the end of the season in the beginning. Cause all the kids easy to coach, confident, willing to go and learn, you know, boom. It's like, okay, they're very teachable. We got it,

[00:41:35] but they weren't ready yet. They didn't know how to do by end of the season. We made it to the championship game because with all the coaches, we started to recognize like, okay, well, this kid is good here. This kid's good here. Let's start to set up different training programs. So, Hey, you take the outfielders, you take the infielders, these are the picture. We start to break them up because they came up and say, Hey, I want to pitch. Okay. We love the confidence, but you're throwing the ball in the wrong direction. So we got to go. You're not ready

[00:41:59] yet, but once we can train you, so we want confident people who we can train. And once we train them, then they will be ready. So that confidence leads to readiness. Yeah. All right. I've got one more question for you, Frank, that I'll leave you with. And if you had to give one piece of advice to someone who knows they're playing small, what would it be? So if you know, you're playing small,

[00:42:27] then I would share this with people as like the results that we, uh, quote cook up the person most responsible looks for us in the, looks at us in the mirror every morning. So you've got to start looking yourself in the mirror in the morning and say, okay, I'm playing small. What do I need to do? And I, with my last name being kitchen, I told people is just like, if you stepped into a kitchen, there's things that we're hungry for, but we don't know how to cook up. And we start to go, it's like, Hey, if that's the set, that's the issue, what do you do? You're like, Oh, I need to go read a book. I need to go jump on a website. I need to go watch your

[00:42:55] video. I need to go talk to people. Then like, then you need to do that in your life right now. Many of us know what to do. We just don't do it. And if we don't do it, then guess what? Then we need to get an accountability partner who can push us and somebody that we're willing to listen to. Cause the idea isn't to point out the problem. The idea is to point out the solution. So the case is, are you helping the process or hurting it? And if we're trying to do everything ourself, cause make you go to bookstores, look online, self-help. No, it's not self-help. I'm

[00:43:23] like, we can motivate ourselves, but we need other people to like, you know, inspire us, challenge us, push us. So you got to ask yourself who you're surrounding yourself with back to that feedback. We were talking about earlier that you can meet with on a constant basis to hold you accountable. And like, I've got a couple of accountability partners. One I meet with every Friday, no matter what, and she holds me accountable. And I got my best friend. I got my wife, got my other friend on Tuesday. And I was like, Hey, here's my goals for this upcoming week. Don't let me play smaller. I'm like, even in a case of my one buddy, Joe, and it sounds something small, but it helps out.

[00:43:52] And he goes, Hey Frank, you've been playing too small. And I was buying like the cheapest ear pods. And anytime I traveled and would talk to him on our deals, like, he's like, Frank, I can hear the train station, the airport behind you. He went and brought me like the newest eye, you know, iPods for my ears. And his whole thing was on the notes and it's in my office. And now he goes, he's like, you were playing small. He goes, you got to step your game up. So you got to ask yourself, do you have people in your life who will keep you from playing small?

[00:44:20] And that's the big one is if you're trying to do all this yourself, that's part of the problem. Playing small means you're doing it by yourself, working to truly like step your levels up. Or as I said, to cook up the success you're hungry for is you got to bring some other people in and some people who are willing to say stuff that you don't want to hear, but they know exactly where you want to go. And they're going to going to push you and I can let you get too high or too low. So who are you putting yourself around? And it could be somebody at your work. It could be

[00:44:49] a supervisor, a leader, a mentor, or it might be outside the workplace. And it could be maybe a former leader that you work with who challenge you to go get some new employment and spread your wings. Somebody you can check in with every day. We started this whole conversation. My buddy, Jim, my mentor, I've known him since, and it's crazy to say this since 1992. We're still connected. And I go, Hey, I'm in Vegas. Would you like to meet? And he came over for about an hour and a half and we just talked life. We talked business. We talked

[00:45:18] about challenges and we challenged each other. Do you have people like that in your life? Love it. Love it. And, and I, I think everybody that comes on here that talks about how to help yourself out. Mentorship always gets brought up and I don't, I don't know how much the younger generation entering the workforce is focused on that. And, and I, I, I challenge everybody

[00:45:46] as a young professional to find, find that somebody in their life, um, to help you be somebody like that, where you said you had a mentor from, you know, 90, the, the nineties over 25 years. Right. Um, that's huge. And that's like what everybody really should be leaning into. So if you don't have a mentor, I challenge you to find one. There's books. There's plenty of people out there to learn

[00:46:12] from. I've got one back here called pathfinders from a friend, Pete Schramm, uh, awesome past guest on speakeasy HR. And it talks about having that board of advisors for yourself. Yeah. So important. And here's a crazy one. As you said about, especially like the younger professionals, guess what, everybody, this isn't your mentor because they're like, Oh, I'm watching all these influencers. I watch it. Well, that just means you're a consumer. You're not producing. Producers are working to like really get their hands dirty. And I share with everybody. It's like,

[00:46:42] we are one click swipe or handshake away from connecting with people. So you can reach out to, you know, Dave's like, Hey, I'm on your podcast. We can find you on LinkedIn email. And he's like, Hey, would you have some time just for a quick 20, 30 minute conversation? You know, what have you been, you know, observing with all these people that you bring onto your podcast versus we just sit back and go, well, nothing's happening. Once again, it's not a skill piece. It's a belief piece. And it's going, I've like, I've been in rooms like 3000 people. Hey everybody, here's my phone number.

[00:47:08] Anybody's got a question. Let me know. I was like, and most of the time I was like, nobody calls her at least one. And I had somebody call me up one time. She goes, I want to be the one. And the thing was room of 3000 people, only one person called not an ability or it's a belief ability. Do you, are you going to believe enough to really go for what you are hungry for? You can sit back and be at the crowd or just step up. And this is the case of asking a question. How'd you meet David? I just reached out to him through the podcast and said, Hey, can I ask you a question?

[00:47:37] You're so lucky. No, not lucky. They just took action. Yep. Yep. Definitely. No, this has been great. Frank. I learned every time I have people on, I'm going to go back and re-listen to it. And, uh, I really appreciate you sharing all of this and I'm sure you have some upcoming events that you're, uh, speaking at, correct? Yeah. Um, yeah. So I'm lucky enough to speak around the country. So as everybody's watching this, you've got a conference convention, professional development

[00:48:04] event at your company, your organization, your association. I'd love to be the person to come there, keynote, do some workshops. I love working with emerging professionals. That's the people who are new and just like, you know, they've got all the, the confidence, but they don't, they're not ready yet. But I also love to work with those experienced professionals where quote, guess what? They're ready, but they've lost that belief. So they need that little bit of a push. And the third group I like to work with are the leaders who work with those people because they got to pull that best

[00:48:29] out. So if you've got a group who really just trying to really, you know, exceed their potential, meet their potential, pull the best out of people, then I'm the guy for you. And I'll come in. I'll share a few recipes to help people cook up the success they're hungry for. There you go. So best way to find you is LinkedIn or anywhere else. Yeah. So best ways right now is you can go to frankkitchen.com. So it's kitchen, just like the room. So you can go to frankkitchen.com, but I love

[00:48:55] hanging out on LinkedIn and YouTube. So lots of free content, shared daily videos, post, and, you know, I just, I said all those ingredients and recipes needed to allow you to truly cook up the success you're hungry for, whether it be in your career, your business, or your organization, I'm there to share and help people out. And as I said earlier, one click away, get any questions, shoot me a question. I'll help you out. Yeah, no, this has been great, Frank. I really appreciate your time to come on today, share your insights with all of the listeners. So I wish you all the best. Let's stay in

[00:49:24] touch. Definitely. Hopefully in the future we'll reconnect, but appreciate everyone tuning in today. Have a great rest of your day. I'm off next Monday for the holiday, but I will be back in two weeks. It'll be June 1st. And I just announced today on LinkedIn who's coming on. So it's a friend of mine up in Canada. So she's coming on HR. What's the topic? It's, it's a, it's a good one. It's a really

[00:49:49] good one. Um, the, uh, Sunday scare or no, hold on navigating change fatigue in the workplace. Ooh, navigating change fatigue in the workplace. So that's coming up in June. So appreciate, uh, everybody coming on and, uh, have a great rest of your day. Thanks, Frank. And I'll see you soon. Appreciate it. All right. Bye.