024: HR compliance in 2025 and Beyond

[00:01:02] Hey, what's going on everybody? David Noe with SpeakEasy HR presented by Payroll Partners. We are back with another awesome guest. It is mid-February and I am ready for the spring weather. I am sick of the cold and sick of the snow in the Midwest. And I would say my guest is also getting this kind of weather.

[00:01:25] So we are live on YouTube and LinkedIn. So I have been doing this since last July. I have had some amazing guests, all kinds of topics. So for those of you who are new, this is a live podcast that I do and talk about all things, HR, business, some of the easy topics and not so easy.

[00:01:52] And today we're talking about something that's probably not so easy for some people when they have some issues in compliance. So Sabrina Greenwood Briggs, welcome and how are you today? Sabrina Greenwood Briggs I'm well, thank you. Thank you for having me. David Noe Yeah, absolutely. I cannot wait to get into this topic because it seems like it's ever changing.

[00:02:14] We have some obviously topics to get into with compliance and how things have changed over the last few months with new folks in the office and just regulations and how it's going to evolve in the next few months. It feels like, you know, 40 days from now there'll be new things to talk about. So it's one of those things that is going to continue to evolve. It's not like it's going to happen and just be the same way for the next year because things will continue to change.

[00:02:44] So you are an expert in this kind of stuff and cannot wait to to dive in. So, again, if you are live, if you're watching on LinkedIn or YouTube, you know, please chat, chime in, ask questions, want to know where you're watching from. We're going to be playing the envelope icebreaker game here soon.

[00:03:06] So, Sabrina, we have talked a few times and, you know, want to kind of give you a quick time frame to to explain, you know, your background and kind of what got you into HR, because I'm always curious to hear how people get into HR, too. It's one thing that, like, you don't wake up when you're in sixth grade and you're like, I want to do HR, you know, it's like, how did you get into HR? Because it's like all it's all different.

[00:03:31] So can you explain a little bit about your background and kind of what led you to do this kind of work? Sure. Yeah. So my intro to HR story is a little crazy. I'll be honest about that. I left college and moved to Los Angeles. I wanted to actually work in the movie business. And I was. I was a production assistant for Mary Kate and Ashley Olson when they were little kids. I did on set work, all kinds of things. But then some of the work dried up.

[00:03:59] And so I decided I was going to look for an office job. And I actually applied to be the assistant to a television executive at a major entertainment corporation. And when I went in, the recruiter was phenomenal, had a great interview. And she looked at me and she was like, I would send you upstairs to interview in a heartbeat because you could do this job with your eyes closed. And then she said the craziest words.

[00:04:25] And she said, but I can't send you upstairs because if I sent you upstairs, I would get screamed at because you're not a tall blonde with big boobs. And I was like, oh. And she goes, but I have a job in the HR department. Would you be interested in interviewing for that? And like, I needed a job. So I was like, okay, sure. And they hired me on the spot. And that's how I actually got into doing HR.

[00:04:51] And then, of course, that in and of itself sort of drove me to be like, this is work that needs doing because nobody should have somebody say that to them when they're a qualified applicant. That they can't go upstairs because they don't look the part of that role. And so I kind of never looked back.

[00:05:12] I jumped into HR and from that point on, you know, made it my career and my life to make sure that doesn't happen to anybody at the places I work. Yeah. No, that's incredible. Thanks for sharing that. People are always surprised by that. But like, again, it was Hollywood in the 90s. Like, it's not entirely surprising, but, you know, not good either. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm sure you have a different story than most people.

[00:05:41] So you will forever be that person that had probably that kind of situation happen that led into an HR position for. Yeah. Right. Rather than walking away from it. Right. Right. Absolutely. So we are live on LinkedIn and YouTube. Nicole Roberts. Thanks for joining. The plot twist. No one saw coming. What on earth? Yeah. I tell you what.

[00:06:06] That's funny because, you know, a lot of the people that I talk to in HR, it's kind of like. It's it's it's either they have like. That voluntold kind of position in in their company, like, hey, we don't have HR. We need you to do it. You know, our people, you know, we you know, our culture. Why don't you just do payroll and HR and all the fun things when it comes to the people side. And it's like, OK. So, yeah, everybody's upbringing in HR is different.

[00:06:36] So. Yeah. Very interesting to hear about that. So you are now in Boston. Just north of Boston. But, yeah, I go into Boston a lot. OK. So how's the weather these days? Is it nice and sunny and 80 or is it so technically for me today? It is because I'm actually in Los Angeles right now. But when I left when I left New Hampshire and Boston, it was 23 degrees and snowing.

[00:07:05] So, yeah, it was not great up there. Yeah. I'm anticipating going back into a snowstorm, actually. Yep. Yep. We seems like there's no end in sight for right now with this weather. It just continues to be cold. I'm in Kentucky near Cincinnati and definitely have some winter weather. Yesterday, got up, went to church and it was like snowing. But then it was like you couldn't even see down the street.

[00:07:34] And then, you know, we had three or four inches of snow in about, I don't know, an hour and a half. And now it's starting to melt again. And it's, you know, 60 degrees or something last week. It just February is a lot of fun. And everyone's sick. I feel like everyone's getting sick or getting over six, you know, sicknesses. And it's just, you know, one of those times a year where we try to stay healthy and stay inside, it seems like. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, it's hard.

[00:08:04] But, well, I think it's time that we learn a little bit more about you through the Envelope Icebreaker game. So let me plug this in real quick here. See if it'll play for me without delaying it. Come on. Come on. There we go. There we go. In this platform sometimes.

[00:08:35] All right. So, 1 through 15, you get to pick a number. And we'll see what's in the envelope. Sabrina. Yeah. I'll take number 8. Number 8. Number 8. There we go. Number 8 it is. And your question. What is your favorite TV show? You can go all time or like right now.

[00:09:00] I'm going to go all time because I haven't watched any TV in the last couple of years. Okay. And that would be Criminal Minds. Criminal Minds. Okay. Yeah. I started watching it when it came out and I watched all 15 of the original seasons. Okay. Got it. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I've even watched that. I'm trying to get caught up on some of the comedy series and some of the other series that my wife and I haven't watched. But we've made a list of movies and shows and stuff.

[00:09:30] We just, we don't have a lot of free time. So, Criminal Minds, I'll have to add because I've heard good things about it. So. Yeah. I really, obviously, I really enjoy it. It is my favorite TV show. Yeah. Good. All right. I'll have to tune into that. All right. One more other than number eight. One more. Number two. Number two. Here we go. Number two. That question.

[00:09:57] If you had to have a walk-up song, what would it be and why? Oh, this is a good one. That is a good one. Oh, God. You know, it's hard for me to choose because I am a huge music person. I love a lot of kinds of music, but I would say it has to be something. So, my favorite of all time is Jimmy Buffett.

[00:10:25] And so, I'd have to say it probably, it's more like my anthem and my motto, but it would probably also be a good walk-up song for me, which is changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes. Yeah. It's the song that gave me the courage to leave New England and move to Los Angeles at 21 with nobody and no place to live, no career. Like, I didn't have a job. I just did it. And it was largely because of that. That song gave me the courage to do so.

[00:10:55] That's so cool. Have you seen him in concert? Yeah. Or have you seen him in past? Yeah. I did a lot of times. Yeah. Probably about 20, I think, over the years. Okay. Yeah. Cincinnati was one of the more popular stops for him. Yeah. And there was just an incredible amount. I think I went to him once. Yeah. I don't remember going to many more of his concerts other than one, but yeah. It's definitely in concert. It was great.

[00:11:22] Cincinnati was the place that the term parrot had originated. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. It was. So how long were you out in California then? 17 years. 17 years. Then you moved back to the Boston area? Yep. After that then? Okay. Yep. One side of the country to the other. Yeah. Oh, man. That's crazy. All right.

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[00:12:46] Let us know if we can help in solving some of your technology problems. All right. So HR compliance in 2025. You are one of the first to bring up compliance on this podcast. So I can't think back in other conversations with guests because no one's talked about compliance, Sabrina. I wonder why.

[00:13:12] But it's definitely one of those very interesting topics right now that I think a lot of people are maybe unsure what the future is going to look like or how they're going to have to navigate through that. So when you think compliance and a lot of your work that you're doing is in the compliance side of HR. So is it back to when you first had that situation that kept you in compliance projects?

[00:13:42] Or what kind of has drawn you into focusing on compliance, would you say? Yeah. Yeah. So it's definitely was probably born out of that situation. But a lot of it was driven by learning HR in California. You know, California is a heavy compliance state. There's so many laws that are very employee focused and companies break them all the time

[00:14:10] because they don't even know they exist. Right. It's so hard to keep track of all of that. But in California, in the HR world, that's your job. It's your job to make sure your company isn't doing that and to make sure that you're protecting the company as best you can by making sure that all of your employees are doing the right thing. They are not telling people that they can't send them upstairs because of physical characteristics. Like, you know, there's so much to it.

[00:14:39] And it just I was in a bunch of small companies where I was the only HR person. Yep. And so I had to learn and I had to know. And then I found it and people think it's crazy, but I found it interesting. I liked being able to look into it and understand even just the nuances that are involved in one particular law because it's different across industries sometimes in California.

[00:15:08] And so and it was something I became really good at doing for my company. And then secondarily, now when I'm doing this on my own with clients, I help put it into language that my clients can understand where they don't. They're like, well, why is this this way? And then and I can break it down for them and say, you know, on the bottom line, it's this way. But for your people, it's this way.

[00:15:33] And and it's really worked well for, I think, making it something that isn't as scary or cumbersome for the companies I work with. Yeah. Yeah. Similar for for my upbringing in HR, because it wasn't like yours, but I have seen some of the like Wild West of businesses and trying to help them navigate through compliance.

[00:15:56] And they just in a consultant based situation, like you're telling them what you you are recommending them to do. But, you know, at the end of the day, they they have to act on it and actually do it. And sometimes they just won't agree with you. And then it might, you know, come back to bite them. And I have seen that where the Department of Labor was on them and it was against our regulation or recommendation and how they were handling things, primarily with 1099s and

[00:16:25] W2s and how to handle that from, you know, and that was that was a long time ago, it feels like. And it's still a problem. So then you've got state specific, you've got federal state, you know, compliance issues that that will really just create havoc for people that just don't understand it. And now we have AI, we have machine learning. And, you know, I have heard people like, oh, I just plug into AI, like, how do I fire this person? Or how do I do this? And I'm like, oh boy.

[00:16:54] So when it comes to AI and automation of, you know, playing a big role in HR now, you know, what compliance risks should organizations be aware of? Would you say? Sure. Sure. So I like AI. I think AI is fascinating. I think AI on the side of automating tasks is phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:21] I think AI, as far as compliance goes, people should completely walk away from it. Largely because it is a learning tool. It is learning. I constantly play with it to see what it's going to kick back for people. If they ask, like if somebody asks me the question, I'll ask it to different AI bots to see what is AI telling people? Because it is something I have to combat when I'm with potential clients.

[00:17:50] And the biggest problem is AI, it can only tell you what it has learned. And with there being 50 states plus DC plus federal law, it can't tell you what you need to know specific to your situation, depending on the size of your company, where the employee is located. All of those pieces are part of it.

[00:18:16] And I found with AI, when I plug questions in, I will occasionally get the right answer, but it also pumps out three other answers. And they're contradictory because it's pulling from different state laws. It doesn't even tell you necessarily what state it's talking about. So actually in a group I was in, I saw a business owner ask about a handbook and being able to

[00:18:44] have a handbook put together cheaply and easily. And somebody in the group responded, just put it into AI. And I was like, oh no, please don't do that. I get you might not want to hire me to write your handbook, but don't trust AI to get it right for your situation when it's legal. Right? Because that's the thing that people often forget about compliance. It's about mitigating your risk of a lawsuit.

[00:19:12] Is it more important to you to not buy a handbook that's been done by a professional in the early stages of your business or get sued because you potentially broke the law, whether it's the state who does it or an employee who does it and lose your business. Like it's all about risk mitigation. And in that sense, AI needs to like stay on the other side of compliance because it's too risky still. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely agree with that.

[00:19:41] I mean, it's, it is fascinating. And from a tactical standpoint, it's been really helpful and just trying to generate ideas, even questions, questions for my guest. I'll plug in. Here's the topic for my podcast. Give me a few questions. And, you know, it within seconds, it'll list out questions that I'm like, oh, those are really good questions. But when you are saying, yeah, don't use it to create a handbook.

[00:20:10] It can, but I would strongly advise not to do that. Right. You know, and, and so I, and when in different laws change and I've, I've caught it where it just makes things that aren't even, doesn't even make sense. Like there's sentences that I'm like, please clarify what this means. And it says, oh, that was my mistake. You know, here's what the sentence should have said.

[00:20:38] And it's like, it's not even like an employment law question. It was more like, you know, it was a basic question or giving me ideas around something. And like, it was, it was just really odd that it did that. And it was probably, I don't know, a couple of months ago. And I, I wrote a blog about it and I put it on my website because I'm like, yeah, I, I'm looking at AI and I'm like, that wasn't even a sentence. Like that wasn't even a full sentence that you just gave me.

[00:21:04] So like if people are copying and pasting that into a handbook, I just, yeah. And they are. And that, you know, that is often, I think, and, and people trust it just too much when it comes to, you know, legal business compliance things. Yeah. Yeah. Don't, don't be lazy with compliance. If there's certain things with HR you want to be lazy about, you know, maybe it's something

[00:21:30] that can say, all right, generate a culture survey questionnaire or something I can ask my team, but don't give me a policy in AI or something like that. Had a comment from Nicole. Thanks for watching, Nicole. This is, AI is great for rewarding things or creating structure, but it's not a consultant or legal expert. Yep. It's scary when people use it for that. You have to have an editing eye and evaluate the results always. Yep.

[00:22:00] Definitely agree. A hundred percent. Definitely agree. Thank you, Nicole. So how are changes in employment laws such as pay transparency and workers classification impacting HR policies right now? Have you seen? Yeah. I mean, they're, they're affecting, they're impacting it a lot. They're affecting a lot. But, um, and, and again, it, depending upon where your business is and where your employees are at, you know, it, the different levels of it might not be.

[00:22:28] And honestly, right now, one of the, the biggest challenges is the, with the change in administration, there's a lot of things we were expecting to go into effect that are now being halted and being rolled back. And advice I gave to clients back in October, November, that we were looking at things that were changing January one. Now I have to go back to them and say, okay, well, now that this landscape has changed and

[00:22:55] these things have happened, that advice is no longer accurate. We have to roll that back. Now it's looking at this over here. And so like right now it's a bit of a challenging time because I'm having to rehab the same conversations I've had with companies to say, okay, this has changed and now we have to update what we were planning to do or how you were, you know, planning to handle that situation.

[00:23:21] And it's not necessarily a negative thing, but it's something that, you know, it, it can be frustrating for companies because they had made a plan and now they have to revise that plan. Yep, exactly. So what are some common compliance mistakes that you've seen companies make over the last maybe year, you know, and how, how can that be avoided moving forward? Sure.

[00:23:47] I think the number one, one is actually the topic you brought up the 1099 versus W2 employee. That's still a huge problem and still a huge mistake that a lot of companies make. Um, and I find it is often comes from well-meaning business friends that they have that are just like, oh, just hire, you know, just like pay a consultant or hire a contractor or pay them

[00:24:13] on 1099 when it's not a legal way to handle that inside of your business. Yeah. You know, there, there's so much of that, that people don't understand and they just go about doing it and then find out later that they've been doing it wrong. And I often tell people, you don't usually find out until a 1099 person that you no longer need to use that you cut relationships with files for unemployment.

[00:24:43] Yep. Exactly. And then they get denied unemployment and the unemployment comes to the company and says, they said they worked for you and you didn't file any wages for them. And if you go back and say, well, they were a 1099 and it's not legal. Now you've opened up a whole can of firms in your company. And then the department of labor comes in and they looks at everybody, not just that one person. Um, and so that's often a conversation I see where, um, business owners and companies get it wrong.

[00:25:13] They don't understand that difference. Yeah. I, I think the department of labor has made it pretty easy for someone to file complaints. Absolutely. And it's a matter of, are they going to take them serious to the point of, you know, acting on it and how fast will someone file a claim or a complaint with the department of labor? Will that company be contacted? So it could be, I mean, it could be some time.

[00:25:40] I think they've got, they've got a little bit of time to come back to you when something happens. So it's not like you do something wrong today. Okay. Well, they didn't contact us in the last six months. We're fine. You know? Yep. No, you gotta, you gotta always be worried about that. And that's, that's why it's so important. Absolutely. So from HR professionals, you know, listening to this and businesses, you know, how can HR

[00:26:04] professionals stay ahead of the evolving federal state local regulations, you know, without getting overwhelmed right now? Yeah. Well, with that caveat, I don't know that I can answer it. I think everybody's getting overwhelmed right now. Yeah. Um, but, but there's a few solutions out there. There's, I mean, I shouldn't say a few, there's a whole host of places you can go to get aggregated

[00:26:28] information, um, where you can get updates like monthly updates, you know, annual updates. One thing I will often recommend to, um, businesses and HR professionals is find out when the legislative session runs in your state, because when they, when they're running, obviously when they're in play, that's when laws are being looked at, when bills are being decided, when things get, get, you know, signed into law for you.

[00:26:57] And it helps you be able to know, like, even what's on their slate for the year. You know, one of the HR organizations I belong to, um, our group has a legislative update. And so every couple of months, our group will get an email from a lawyer who's in the group and she summarizes all of the bills in front of the state house and in front of our, our lawmakers. And so it helps me keep an eye on locally what's going on.

[00:27:27] Now I can't do that for all of my clients in all of the States. I think, I think they cross about 35 States currently. So I go out to various companies and I'll subscribe to their monthly updates for legal updates. And there's, there's a couple of, and often you'll find employment, um, law firms in those States will have a free newsletter that they send out. And so I make it a habit of going and reading a few of them for the States that I have to be aware of.

[00:27:57] And the reason I say a few is because not every lawyer interprets the law the same way either. So I like to read more than one person's interpretation to see if there's kind of a consensus out there of what people think this law is going to look like when it comes into play. Yeah. Yeah. I think having, having internal HR is one thing, having, uh, an HR professional in an, you know,

[00:28:24] organization that does keep up with those kinds of things. That's one way of, of handling HR. And then the other piece that kind of what you fall in is more of the consultant based and helping companies that may not really need a full-time HR, uh, professional in their organization. You know, I, I, I do think the employment attorneys out there, you know, you, you probably won't reach out to them until you have a need and you need them to review a document or, uh, some

[00:28:54] kind of agreement, uh, separation agreement or something, you know, along the lines of compensation and making sure that everything is legal. Um, you know, so I think from a consultant based standpoint, I've seen a lot of fractional HR being utilized a lot and fractional HR to everybody might be a little different. Um, but if it makes the most sense for them, then they will stay hopefully compliant if they're using a good consultant like yourself.

[00:29:24] And, you know, if they are going to grow, they might decide to bring someone in full time. So it's, it's one of those things that like everybody's going to handle it different. And if the infrastructure of a company, just like it, like if you are outsourcing it versus having an internal, it's like, there's going to be some potential privacy data breaches, things like that, that could really impact a, a, a business's bottom line. If they're having to, you know, hand over money to somebody that's, that's stealing their personal information or I don't know.

[00:29:53] There's just, there's a lot out there in HR, IT. I know those are two different industries, but at the end of the day, it's, it's taking care of a, of a compliant need for an organization. So, um, so let's shift gears into another topic. That's been hot as the DEI world, uh, topic that, you know, from a compliance standpoint, moving forward and how, how companies are, are approaching the DEI within their organization.

[00:30:22] You know, what, what are companies asking you about all of this right now? Yeah. So the companies that I work with are not actually asking any questions about it right now because they're committed to continuing. Yeah. To make sure that they have a diverse work workforce. Um, one of the key things to remember is that your state might have different laws than the federal government and the federal outlook. Yeah.

[00:30:50] And at this point, states rights in that regard do still over like supersede federal, particularly because when you're looking at compliance, your rule of thumb is you have to follow the law that is the most beneficial to the employee. So if your state is better than the federal government, for example, minimum wage, you have to follow your state.

[00:31:16] If the federal government is more beneficial than your state would be, then you have to follow the federal government rule. Well, at the moment, more states have a more beneficial expectation of anti-discrimination and diversity inclusion. So you really need to look at what is expected in your state before you maybe stop using all of those situations.

[00:31:43] Because again, when we're talking about, it's easy to make a complaint to your local or your state's governing board to say, I was discriminated against. And, and at that point, it becomes the company's, the burden is on the company to prove they didn't discriminate. Yeah. And it's a lot harder to prove that you didn't do something than it is to prove that you did something.

[00:32:08] And so I, you know, again, none of my clients have asked me like if they could make any changes. But when I talk to other people out in the business world, I just caution them to make sure they understand what their state and their local government expects out of those initiatives. Yeah. So from your services provided to businesses, is some of it more training focused for the

[00:32:37] organization and how to, you know, train their, their staff better managers, better. Um, are you doing much of that training right now or how's, how's the training focus been? Yeah. So I don't personally do training. Um, I do have, uh, people that I can outsource to. Yeah. I work with my companies to talk about what they should be training on and the best practices.

[00:33:01] Um, and again, certain States mandate certain trainings and I do still recommend to people that they consider doing anti-bias training and, you know, especially with management. Um, because that is where, if you don't properly train your, your managers, your supervisors, that is where you have like one of your biggest risk gaps because you don't know what they're saying in their one-on-ones or in their review meetings with their employees.

[00:33:30] You don't know how those check-ins are going. And that is the place where, you know, personally, whenever I've had complaints come up internally, when I was, you know, internal person and external, it's always because a manager said something and they may not have intended it to be taken poorly, but you never know how that other person is going to take what you say. And so, I mean, like my whole story at the beginning, I could have been so offended by what

[00:33:59] that woman said to me that I was like, well, no, I'm not going to interview for another position at your company. Like, are you kidding? Yeah. And I wasn't, but someone could have been, and they could have gone right out and complained about that somewhere. Right. I chose to go inside and help fix that, not to run away, but it's, it's, there's so much potential for harm that you have to be careful. And, and that's what I try mostly. I train the companies, like my contacts at the companies, I train them on that.

[00:34:29] And, and then we will talk about appropriate training for, you know, the culture of their organization or the different departments they have. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things that I feel like a lot of businesses don't make enough effort on from a budget standpoint is training their managers. Cause you got a lot of people that, you know, have never been a manager before and, you know, they, they only can learn so much before experiencing things and dealing with situations that they

[00:34:59] never had before. And at the end of the day, you don't want them to make a horrible decision and say something that's going to cause them to have some kind of lawsuit against the company at some point. And then they fail to document things, you know, that's going to be effective in the future. If someone has to come in and review documents or any kind of documentation.

[00:35:23] So that, that to me has been for years, like you've got to document, right. You've got to be able to document things. Did you have meetings with them? One of the biggest places I train my clients on is documentation. How to document, when to document, how to store it. Like, yeah, it's huge in compliance. Yeah. Now from an AI perspective, I know there's all kinds of note taking apps, right?

[00:35:51] So if you're having a meeting with somebody and maybe you haven't seen this yet, but, and maybe you have, but like, I, I try to be effective in meetings. I know there's a lot of meetings that people are like, why are we meeting? Like this is not even necessary, whether it's a team meeting, whether it's a, you know, internal staff meeting, or if it's a one-on-one meeting with a, uh, you know, member of your team.

[00:36:18] But if you want to document a lot going on in that conversation without sitting there and having to take notes and write down everything, you know, have you seen people say, Hey, Sabrina, what are, what are maybe some good ways to document conversations without having to sit there and like write all the notes out? Yes. So I have seen that. I have been asked that. I have seen the AI note takers in zoom meetings that show up when, cause people have them.

[00:36:45] And I always caution people, the law hasn't necessarily caught up to it yet, but that is a form of recording. You need to understand the laws in your state around recording an employee. And in a lot of times, you know, it, there, it's a two-party state where they have to agree to it. And employees don't always feel like they can say no, right?

[00:37:11] They feel like their job would be in jeopardy for saying no. Well, just because they don't say no, doesn't mean they won't later say if they felt coerced into allowing something. And I've seen that go very poorly for a company. So I do caution people about automated note taking. I caution them about recording people. That's not to say that you can't, right?

[00:37:37] There, there are, there is a place in a time where you say, you know, we're having a disciplinary meeting. This meeting is being recorded. And that in many cases, and I often tell my clients, like, talk to your employees about it. This is meant to protect everybody in the meeting, right? It's so that nobody can come back and say that the employee said something they didn't or that the manager said something they didn't.

[00:38:04] But if you are in a two-party consent state and that person says, I don't want you to record it, and you still do, you broke the law. And so my best suggestion is, if you can get permission to record, go ahead and do so because it does protect everybody. Right. Again, provided that your supervisor isn't saying something they shouldn't because you could now have, you know, something problematic. But if they do, don't delete that recording. Right.

[00:38:34] Destroying that, it could be just as detrimental to you. And that's actually where I caution people the most. It's like, are you sure you want a written or a verbal or a video of this? Because that could come back to haunt you in the future if you know you have someone who's very problematic. Right. As inefficient as it seems, my best advice to people is still take your own notes. Yep.

[00:39:01] It stinks, but take your own notes because that is, you know, one of the most effective ways truly to have a record of what those conversations are if you're looking to mitigate, you know, lawsuit risk. Right. Yeah. I didn't take good notes in high school and college, and now I have to do it for a living.

[00:39:23] And so I've gotten better, you know, being in HR for as long as I have, I've been able to figure out the best way to take notes and be a witness in conversations. And whether it's a, you know, one-on-one meeting with the manager and their team member and myself to be a part of the conversation about some kind of write-up or termination.

[00:39:48] And, you know, as you, you probably have a lot of stories about situations. I have a ton. But there was a time I had went into a termination and the lady got up and she pulled out her phone and said, I've been recording this whole thing and I've got everything that you just said.

[00:40:10] And I was like, you know, we're in a state where you don't have to have, you know, any kind of prior authorization. It's, it's, they can record it. But I was just like, you know, she had the nerve to do that, to think we were going to like say something wrong. And we didn't. I mean, that happened many years ago. And to this day, I still think about that when I, when I hear about people recording conversations and, you know, she was out to get us and it just fortunately didn't end well for her.

[00:40:40] But, you know, people do that. People have their kind of motives to try to get companies in trouble and find ways that they're not being compliant. So even though you feel like you're doing everything right, it's having people that are involved in your staff and being a part of your staff that, that may be a lot smarter than you think. And no people that are like telling them, oh, here's what I would do. Cause that's the thing.

[00:41:07] Like you, you don't know what people have been told by somebody, an outside party, you know, if, if they're not happy and they're disgruntled employee, they're going to do everything potentially in their power. To try to get a company in trouble. And if they have an attorney friend or someone that's in HR, you know, it's like, so I would, I would caution people if, if you are getting advice from somebody, you know, and they're like trying to tell you what to do in your situation.

[00:41:36] It's like, how do you know that they, they know what they're talking about too? It's like, they may not even be telling you what's, what's accurate and how to get a company in trouble. So it's, it goes two ways. It's huge. And, and honestly, one of right now, one of the biggest proliferations of that issue is social media because I see it out there all the time where people are like, oh, like that's illegal. They can't do that to you. And it's like, that's actually not illegal in half the United States.

[00:42:05] So depending on where you are, that maybe that is, and I'm not saying it's right, right. I'm not saying what the company did was morally or ethically right, but it might not be illegal. And, and I've actually, my clients have had this happen and have come to me for advice when they have employees that come at them and they're getting advice from friends, from family, from, you know, in one case it was a lawyer boyfriend who was like telling this person to negotiate this way.

[00:42:35] And ask for these things and like demand things. And it really, like you said, it did not go well for that employee because everything they were doing was not applicable. And yeah. And, and, and, you know, that, that case that happened to be in Florida and Florida is one of the states in the country that has the least employment protections for employees.

[00:42:59] And ultimately that employee ended up fired because of what they did and all of the, the shenanigans they got up to in the company. And it was all at the behest of their lawyer boyfriend telling them that the company was doing things illegally when they weren't. So I do caution people as well. Like make sure the person that's giving you advice actually like has, you know, some information and isn't just trying to be like, oh, you deserve better. Not saying you don't deserve better.

[00:43:27] A lot of people in this world deserve a lot better treatment by their company, but that doesn't necessarily, you know, elevate or equate to illegal or problem. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, as soon as, as soon as someone puts something out on social media, you know, everybody comes out of the woodworks and tell them, you know, tells them what to do. And they're like, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's crazy. The social media aspect of it and having a good social media policy.

[00:43:56] I think that's one particular policy that depending on where your employees are, depending on your kind of business. And if you're, you know, uh, a lot of remote work versus in office, just having a good look at your social media policy. Obviously every policy is important and making sure that you're staying up to, up to date on it. But, you know, social media in general, just social media is not going anywhere and it's going to continue to evolve.

[00:44:24] And that's one of the things before social media was out, like we never had to deal with that kind of stuff. And now it's just any, anywhere you go, you can look up somebody's, you know, uh, comments and, and have screenshots and really it can come back and really hurt somebody.

[00:44:41] Um, you know, if, if for some reason someone has to see what other people have said, but, um, from small to midsize businesses, you know, with limited HR resources, you know, how can they effectively manage compliance, um, risk moving forward? What would be some suggestions that we haven't covered? Yeah.

[00:45:05] Yeah. So I think, I think one of the easiest ways to, to mitigate risk is to make sure that you do have a handbook and that you are keeping that handbook up to date. Um, again, depending on the state you're in, some of them may pass one or two laws that affect employers and some may past 30. California does 20 to 30 every year. Yeah. And so it, it, depending on where you're at, you might need to really consider updating your handbook every year.

[00:45:35] And in some cases, you don't, if you're a really small company, a lot of policies don't apply if you're under 15 employees. And so your handbook might not change a ton, but it is something that's worth, um, looking into at least every other year. Although I say annually because so many things can change on, on a dime. And if your handbook is out of date, then you're not protected in the same way you would be if you had something current. Right. Absolutely.

[00:46:04] Yeah. It's, uh, people that get lazy and just make a handbook and say, all right, it's done. Here you go. Like never going back to it again. You know, it's like, it's, it's kind of a living, breathing document that you've got to always be mindful of.

[00:46:18] And, you know, for, for me and what we do, like I always tell people, find a technology platform that you can use, use correctly, manage it in a way that can give your staff the proper information, like a handbook or documents document, um, you know, and all the employee records and everything that you can manage it very well.

[00:46:42] So if you do have to make an update to a handbook, it's not like you have to print out a 80 page handbook and give it to everybody and say, here you go. I'm going to give you an 80 page handbook, uh, to sign off on, do it in a way that's going to be effective, you know, paperless technology, use it as much as you can. So, um, so how about long-term HR trends?

[00:47:06] I know that's kind of maybe a hard thing to look at your ball and see like what some of the, the trends will be moving forward in the next, you know, five years, um, and how AI is changing and how jobs might be affected.

[00:47:19] But, you know, what would be some of your, maybe for HR professionals and people that are in the, in, in the career of HR and maybe even considering getting into it that might be newer into their career of, of exploration and figuring out if HR is for them, you know, what are some of the trends that you're going to be kind of keeping track of?

[00:47:38] Yeah. Some of the, some of the trends I I'll be keeping track of and looking at are probably are definitely in the realm of the DEI world, right? Seeing how that continues, how people, um, how important it, it remains to be and, and where it's, people are looking at it.

[00:47:59] Um, I think additionally, you know, uh, employee retraining or upskilling is, is a huge trend. I think that HR employee or HR staff and consultants should at least be aware of, if not be digging into, um, you know, upskilling and retraining is massive and it can also help the company, right?

[00:48:26] You know, the, the return or the cost of replacing an employee that can't do a job or, you know, because of what if AI takes away a bunch of work in your company, right? Not to say it's a bad thing, but if it does and you suddenly have all these employees, isn't it better to have them do different jobs in your company when they already know your culture, they already know your world and your company and your product than to have to hire somebody different that maybe has a skill.

[00:48:55] And so I do think that professional development in employees is, is something that's massive. And it's something that I, I've been looking at for the last eight years. And it's something I plan to keep on looking at because I do think the faster that AI changes and the faster technology changes, the more important and, and the bigger it's going to become for a lot of companies. Cause a lot of things will end up automated out. I mean, they just will, and you're going to want skilled people.

[00:49:25] And it's, I think it's always better to, to pull from in-house. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. That's it's, I've, I've seen, and I've heard some of the statistics about jobs in 2030 and a high percentage of those jobs that will exist in five years. Haven't even been created yet. Yeah. And it's exciting. It's exciting to see and hear about, but, you know, fast forward to 2030 and what will the workforce look like? What kind of jobs will be available that aren't today?

[00:49:55] And, you know, people that are in recruiting and onboarding new, new employees, how will that look? So I think the employee experience and, you know, the way that we manage people and stay compliant, you know, it's, it's all going to be driven around technology. Yeah. To some extent. So, um, or more than what we're doing now. So, um, any other, any other comments that you'd like to, uh, add that we haven't covered or any, anything else?

[00:50:21] I was trying to see if there's any other questions in the, in the chat, but, um, but yeah, anything else that you want to share before we get finished here? No, I don't think so. We covered a lot in the, uh, in the compliant world. Yeah, no, it's, it's ever evolving. And, uh, I, I learned a lot. I really appreciated your time today. I do have your contact information up on the screen for people who are watching live. You can scan the QR code and learn more about Sabrina's services on the compliance front.

[00:50:51] So if you are in the need of looking at how you are staying compliant in your business, or just try to get some advice and service from Sabrina, look her up. Uh, Sabrina Louisa.com. Louisa. Yep. Louisa. Sabrina Louisa. Louisa. Sorry. Sabrina Louisa.com. Or you can scan the QR code on the screen. So, uh, yeah, you have a lot of traveling plans in the next few months. Are you going back to Boston and staying there? I, I do actually.

[00:51:20] I'm going, I'm going home tonight. Um, I have a, a client retreat in April. I have a business to California trips in may one business, one pleasure, Florida, Key West. Like this year is, is actually kind of crazy, which is one of the things I love about what I do is that I can take it on the road with me so that I can actually travel and still, you know, help my, my clients. Yeah, absolutely. No, that's, that's exciting.

[00:51:47] I do have, uh, uh, tons of new content on speakeasyhr.com. Word of the week blog was out this morning. The word this week is kindness right after Valentine's day. I thought that was a very good word to cover. So go out to speakeasyhr, check out previous episodes, keep up to date on the week word of the week blog and, uh, have some exciting guests coming up for the next six to nine months for sure.

[00:52:16] Uh, so I'm going to keep this thing running for a while, as long as I can. And so have great conversations with folks like Sabrina. So, uh, really enjoy doing this podcast and, uh, Sabrina, thanks for your time today. It was nice to talk and learned a lot from you. Yeah. Thank you. It was great to be here. Yeah, absolutely. We'll, uh, certainly keep in touch and wish you all the best and safe travels. And, uh, we'll talk to you soon. Okay. Sounds great. Thanks. All right. Thanks everybody. Have a great day.