Philip Dana | Leadership Through Questioning People and Being a Pit Boss

[00:00:26] Okay, welcome to the Reciprocity Podcast, everybody. My name is Andrew Gadomski and I'm your host. And I'm joined today by Chief Human Resources Officer and HR Leader and Expert, Philip Dana. Hey, Philip, how you doing?

[00:00:41] Hey, Andrew. Good to see you again.

[00:00:43] And by the way, do you tend to go by Phil or Philip so when people reach out to you later, they know how to address you?

[00:00:49] Either one.

[00:00:50] Either one.

[00:00:51] And on Fridays, Dana, because time in the military, you use the last name.

[00:00:57] That's true. Just being on the civilian labor force, I always get a big kick at it. People just throw out your title or they throw out your last name like you don't have another way to call you.

[00:01:11] But I do get a big kick out of occasionally getting.

[00:01:15] Philip, tell me a little bit about yourself. Give yourself the elevator story.

[00:01:20] Yeah, hello. I'm Philip Dana. I currently live in beautiful Wake Forest, North Carolina.

[00:01:25] Originally from the Canadian border of North Idaho and Whidbey Island, Washington, just outside of Seattle.

[00:01:31] Spent most of my adult life out of San Diego and Southern California, both in the Navy and as a civilian.

[00:01:38] Three things you can come to me for that I'm known for are helping military transition from the military to civilian world.

[00:01:49] Two, anything and everything that's recruiting.

[00:01:52] I love recruiting.

[00:01:54] Had a phenomenal career in recruiting and love to talk about it.

[00:01:58] And then three, anything around pit bulls or Frenchie dogs, which seem to be the biggest part of my life right now.

[00:02:08] That's awesome.

[00:02:14] Let's get into our questions.

[00:02:16] The questions are the same for the entire season.

[00:02:17] So thanks for thinking about these.

[00:02:22] So the first one about leadership.

[00:02:24] Can you talk about a trait or technique you've learned about from someone else and how you executed it for success?

[00:02:33] Yeah, I think the context in my answer is I have an opinion that followership and leadership are mostly learned in the formative years.

[00:02:42] And I'll say middle school through halfway through high school.

[00:02:47] And so it really takes me back to when I learned leadership from a phenomenal man and human being that I call grandpa.

[00:02:56] During the summers, I worked with him and for him at a concrete plant.

[00:03:01] And he was the manager and he was the first in, the first off.

[00:03:05] And by being the first in, it allowed him to wait for the rest of the crew to show up and clock in in his office.

[00:03:14] And by observing him, it was never jumping right into the orders of the day or, you know, what are the things that they need to be thinking about with work?

[00:03:24] It always started with how did your son do in the football game Friday night?

[00:03:28] You know, how's your dog doing?

[00:03:31] It was always personal mixed in with the work.

[00:03:36] And I feel like I've always strived to follow that phenomenal example throughout my career, especially as a human resource officer.

[00:03:49] I like that.

[00:03:50] I like that.

[00:03:57] So the next one is a little bit more fun, but I think just as powerful.

[00:04:02] Tell me about a food that you make or buy for others that you believe makes them feel love from you.

[00:04:09] You said love, but in writing, you said comfort.

[00:04:13] And so I was prepared to go savory instead of sweet.

[00:04:16] Yeah, you can go love or comfort.

[00:04:19] Yeah, comfort.

[00:04:20] We'll do comfort, which, you know, kind of pretty close to love.

[00:04:24] So savory instead of sweet.

[00:04:26] I make a mean risotto and a phenomenal shepherd's pie.

[00:04:31] But my favorite is a huge crock pot of the people's chili.

[00:04:37] The people's chili?

[00:04:38] Tell me more about it.

[00:04:39] People's chili.

[00:04:39] If you've ever been over to my house as a guest or if you're coming from out of town or we're having a big football party, there's going to be the people's chili.

[00:04:49] And it's a secret, but it's always a clean pot at the end of the day.

[00:04:55] You got to show up to know what it is, right?

[00:04:57] Got to show up to know what it is.

[00:04:59] And yes, I do put beans in my chili.

[00:05:03] And we can have that argument.

[00:05:06] But there's three types of meats.

[00:05:09] And there's, you know, it just creates a smell and an atmosphere in my house where it is pure comfort.

[00:05:16] And yes, maybe some love.

[00:05:18] That's awesome.

[00:05:19] I like beans in my chili, but my daughter is now allergic to beans.

[00:05:24] So inside my house, none.

[00:05:28] Outside my house.

[00:05:34] So mental focus.

[00:05:35] How do you keep focus at work?

[00:05:38] And where did that model come from?

[00:05:41] Yeah, man.

[00:05:42] You know, this is probably one of the hardest questions for me because I'm not very good at it.

[00:05:47] I have undiagnosed ADD, ADHD, always in high pressure, austere environments running at a million miles an hour.

[00:05:56] But I have, upon reflection, later in life, I've gotten much, much better and actually as an unemployed CHRO, very good at sitting in Outer Banks with my toes in the sand and a good drink.

[00:06:10] I am a cigar smoker and a lover of whiskeys, the entire spectrum.

[00:06:15] With my two dogs, a pit bull and a Frenchie by a fire pit here in Wake Forest.

[00:06:21] And so call it meditation.

[00:06:23] It's not hot yoga.

[00:06:25] I'm not a marathon runner.

[00:06:27] But those quiet moments, whether you're using Calm, the app, meditation, I think quiet is key.

[00:06:36] And you have to have enough of it proportionately to the chaos that's in your life.

[00:06:41] And I wish I had adopted those practices earlier in my life and earlier in my career.

[00:06:47] I just did that the other day.

[00:06:49] It's one of the things you and I have in common other than facial hair.

[00:06:52] That's right.

[00:06:53] Is the cigars in the fire pits.

[00:06:55] And so yesterday I had the zeros and the ones were just blowing my mind all on the screen.

[00:07:00] I literally went to the beach and I just walked up and down and did the cigar thing.

[00:07:05] And came back and I was able to hammer out another four hours.

[00:07:13] All right.

[00:07:14] Movie, play, musical, poem, or book.

[00:07:18] Pick one that speaks to you that you've experienced more than once.

[00:07:22] And did you find it or was it recommended?

[00:07:27] Well, if folks could see the video, you see a big library behind me and then I have two more shelves on the side.

[00:07:33] So I'm a junkie of culture, leadership, books, biographies about some of the greatest leaders in the history.

[00:07:43] I'd start by saying the Bible.

[00:07:45] That was a big part of my upbringing.

[00:07:47] I mean, some phenomenal leadership examples in there that really highlight going through austere or audacious tough stuff and then having a huge aha breakthrough moment afterwards.

[00:07:58] And always doing it with a tribe or a group of others and reflecting on it.

[00:08:04] So that would be one.

[00:08:05] But one that I've used the most and recommended the most in business is actually Malcolm Gladwell's Tipping Point.

[00:08:11] I've always come into an organization as a builder or a transformer, and I really believe in the flywheel example of if you just do little things at a specific frequency, eventually you stop touching the flywheel and it will spin at 1,000 RPM.

[00:08:28] Same with the pebble in the middle of the pond.

[00:08:30] You throw it once, you get a little splash and a little ripple.

[00:08:33] You throw it at a frequency and a constant and you can go surfing.

[00:08:38] And I really believe that's how to build high-performing cultures and high-performing organizations.

[00:08:51] Let's talk about briefing out now.

[00:08:54] And you probably experienced this some more than others.

[00:08:58] Sometimes you got to brief up senior executive, commanding officer, and you don't get a lot of time.

[00:09:03] So how do you organize and get that audience to not only understand, but then lean in?

[00:09:10] You got a little bit of time.

[00:09:11] How do you do it?

[00:09:12] Yeah, first and foremost, you have to have a sponsor or a champion.

[00:09:17] So a recent example for me is I needed to acquire a sizable fundraise through our board and our owners.

[00:09:24] Of course, I go to the CEO who's going to be in my corner, but asking her the key questions of what do you think they're going to look for?

[00:09:32] Who do you think the protagonist is?

[00:09:34] Who do you think the antagonist is?

[00:09:36] And then how should I shape the story in between?

[00:09:42] And the story is the most important.

[00:09:43] That's the steak and potatoes in the middle of why we're even discussing this.

[00:09:48] From the military, I really try to practice bluff, basic line up front.

[00:09:52] Yeah, basic line up front.

[00:09:53] And so second you walk in, you greet the board, tight schedule.

[00:09:58] You're usually not the prime show, or at least I've never been the prime show, but it's, hey, everyone, I'm here to present this.

[00:10:06] And when we walk out of the room, this is what I need.

[00:10:09] Then you have to build the story to prove it and to get what you want.

[00:10:14] I think first and foremost is you need to understand those basic things that I listed.

[00:10:19] What are two or three things that they look for?

[00:10:21] You have to go find that answer from the right people.

[00:10:25] Having examples of what's worked well before is always a tremendous advantage.

[00:10:29] So it's okay to cheat.

[00:10:31] Then understanding the personalities behind it.

[00:10:34] In my role as a CHRO, I don't get a ton of time with the board members.

[00:10:37] And I've formed my own opinions.

[00:10:40] But getting the real opinions from those that spend every day with them is also important.

[00:10:46] Excellent.

[00:10:52] When you were growing up or as an adult, which class, whether it was elementary school, high school, a professional course,

[00:11:02] what made you raise your hand the most and participate?

[00:11:07] I almost started crying thinking about this one at the Naval Academy.

[00:11:11] Every class, and especially in engineering classes, are graded on a curve.

[00:11:16] Everybody fails.

[00:11:17] Everybody gets punched in the face.

[00:11:19] Every day, all day long.

[00:11:21] It's an institution of teaching you how to fail gracefully.

[00:11:26] And so, you know, there I am in thermodynamics after being enlisted for four years and going to high school and schools in North Idaho with no computers and textbooks from the 60s.

[00:11:37] Now I'm surrounded by some of the smartest kids on the face of the planet that all scored double my SAT score.

[00:11:44] And, you know, I'm standing in the back falling asleep because I was rowing crew at the time.

[00:11:49] I had to ask the questions.

[00:11:52] And, you know, as the old guy in the class, most of my peers gave me a hall pass to be that one to raise your hand.

[00:12:00] You don't you typically don't want to be that person to always be raising your hand.

[00:12:06] But I got away with it.

[00:12:07] And then when I found out that a third of the class had the same question, they were just afraid to ask it.

[00:12:12] Then I became the good guy.

[00:12:14] And for some reason, my Irish ways and my political science major allowed me to translate some of the science and the engineering into a fashion that everyone else in the room could understand.

[00:12:26] So it was odd at some point, I think my second year, I turned into a leader of study groups at the library at Nimitz Hall.

[00:12:34] And so you'd always find me there at midnight with a with a crowd of folks around me.

[00:12:39] And I just had this weird way of putting things in fashion that everyone can understand.

[00:12:45] And usually with a little bit of humor.

[00:12:47] That's awesome.

[00:12:48] I think it's misunderstood that questioning is a form of leadership.

[00:12:53] By you asking that question and having people hear you ask that question, they themselves later will realize how valuable a question like that can be.

[00:13:04] So they themselves can ask it because that's one of the hardest things to do is to admit that you don't know.

[00:13:10] I think that's a brilliant point.

[00:13:11] And I'll pile on for a second because I think there's a good nugget there.

[00:13:14] I think the Honor Foundation, which is a transitioning institute for spec ops leaders coming out.

[00:13:20] One of the big things we focus on is your ability to open your kimono and tell your story, to be to be, you know, open awkwardly, to take shots, to expose yourself, to share your weaknesses.

[00:13:33] And in that community, they do it every day as part of their culture.

[00:13:36] It's how the team ability.

[00:13:39] But in the rest of the world, not many people are willing just to do that, to throw their kimono open and say, hey, sir, I'm sorry.

[00:13:48] I'm not really understanding this.

[00:13:51] Can you put it in a different way?

[00:13:53] Maybe that can help me grasp it.

[00:13:55] And I think people might appreciate it because they didn't grasp it either.

[00:13:59] But I think more importantly, they see somebody that's just, you know, willing to take shots.

[00:14:05] That's a good pile on.

[00:14:06] Thank you for that.

[00:14:13] Next one.

[00:14:14] Either community or conflict.

[00:14:18] How do you create community amongst a team?

[00:14:22] Or how do you diffuse conflict to strengthen connectiveness in that team?

[00:14:28] Yeah, I think creating community in a team.

[00:14:30] I've been blessed, you know, with a military background.

[00:14:33] There's always a common purpose, commander's intent.

[00:14:36] Very, very well-defined mission orders, typically.

[00:14:41] And then I've worked for companies like Amazon and a lot of life science companies where, you know, the North Star, the compass is pointing at, we are going to cure Parkinson's disease in this gene therapy company, period.

[00:14:57] And it really galvanizes everybody and gets them in step.

[00:15:00] But if you don't have that clarity, it's still equally important to define the vision, the mission, the behaviors that will help us get there, left and right parameters.

[00:15:10] I call it commander's intent, just with my background.

[00:15:13] But if everyone understands it, they'll move together.

[00:15:17] They might not always agree with it, and that's okay.

[00:15:19] And as a leader, you need to explain that as well, is there will be times where I have to make a decision without your input.

[00:15:25] And other times where I will gracefully request and demand your input.

[00:15:29] But so there's also some rule setting and expectation setting.

[00:15:33] But yeah, to form a community and get a team moving, you know, have a clear true North.

[00:15:47] What type of technology do you think will be retired almost completely?

[00:15:51] And I don't care what it is.

[00:15:52] You can keep it in the world because of artificial intelligence or you think that microwaves are going to disappear or whatever.

[00:16:01] It's anything you want.

[00:16:03] But tell me a tech that you think is going to go away.

[00:16:06] Yeah, the one I was thinking about this morning in preparation for this is this technology.

[00:16:11] One, because I hate it.

[00:16:12] I want it to go away.

[00:16:14] And I see such a better way of doing it.

[00:16:16] And not because of the technology itself.

[00:16:18] Don't get me wrong.

[00:16:19] This serves a purpose.

[00:16:20] But the reality is I was reflecting on how to be a good leader and a good follower.

[00:16:25] And most of the secret sauce and the glue that I'm used to is sticking my head into somebody's office, bumping into them in the break room and forming that human connection.

[00:16:35] And by the way, most of my life, there's usually food involved or beverage.

[00:16:41] Or if you and I were together, there would definitely be a cigar.

[00:16:45] So reflecting back to how my grandfather taught me leadership, it's also not always about work.

[00:16:51] Like I hate diving into a Zoom call and immediately jumping into it.

[00:16:55] Like you and I have a relationship already.

[00:16:58] And so we spent the first 10 minutes just catching up, which is awesome.

[00:17:02] But in my experience the last few years, many, many people just get right to it.

[00:17:08] And I'm like, oh, we're missing such an opportunity.

[00:17:10] Wouldn't it be great to have a technology where I could see your proverbial door open?

[00:17:15] And so I just spoke to a phenomenal mentor and his office was right next to my boss.

[00:17:20] And his door was always open.

[00:17:22] Like this guy would get up when he was done with something, open his door and then go back to his desk and keep working in case somebody wanted to stick their head in the office.

[00:17:33] I don't feel like that exists right now.

[00:17:35] Yes, folks will say Calendly and there's other tools out there.

[00:17:38] But the reality is, like, I don't know if you're busy or not throughout the day.

[00:17:42] I don't know when there's the opportune moment.

[00:17:44] Just to check in on you and see how things are going or run some crazy idea by you.

[00:17:49] And I think that's what many of the leaders are struggling with.

[00:17:54] The Jamie Diamonds and the Elon Musk and the Amazons.

[00:17:58] They're out there.

[00:17:59] They're getting in the press of leaders that are demanding that.

[00:18:02] And then those that say we should treat everybody like adults.

[00:18:06] I don't know what the answer is.

[00:18:09] My own opinion is somewhere in the middle.

[00:18:11] But, man, there's got to be better technology to enable that kind of experience and human connection.

[00:18:17] So I'll pile on that.

[00:18:18] We're having a synchronous conversation.

[00:18:21] But it was an asynchronous scheduled event.

[00:18:26] Yeah.

[00:18:26] That's, I think, what we're battling with as knowledge workers.

[00:18:31] When you do this in trades, you've got to be together.

[00:18:34] But as knowledge workers, we're struggling with the...

[00:18:38] It's not even...

[00:18:40] You know, you can have the spur of the moment using messaging.

[00:18:44] But this was still asynchronous to start.

[00:18:50] And that's what I think is hard.

[00:18:57] Okay.

[00:18:58] Work-life balance.

[00:18:59] How have you helped another who was struggling with that?

[00:19:03] Yeah.

[00:19:04] I think being bold and as a leader and a follower, demonstrating it through actions and not words.

[00:19:12] I've seen and been a part of many leaders and folks in the workplace say we're all about work-life balance.

[00:19:22] But then I see them coming in at 6 in the morning and leaving 5 at night.

[00:19:25] And I see them online every night.

[00:19:27] And so that's not setting a true example.

[00:19:30] I think setting you're out of office with some nice verbiage, delegating, leading by example, telling your team and your stakeholders,

[00:19:40] I'm going to come in at 7 earlier than most.

[00:19:43] But I'm also going to leave at 3 because I have to pick up kids or walk the dogs.

[00:19:48] And by the way, I'm also the one to cook dinner in my family.

[00:19:51] So then you'll see me back online at 8 just checking on things for a few minutes while I'm watching Yellowstone.

[00:19:56] And then I go to bed at 10 because I'm old now.

[00:19:59] I think that's key is communicating that, talking about it, having meetings about it.

[00:20:06] Like, hey, what works best for you guys?

[00:20:09] Using the tools.

[00:20:10] There is great technology where you don't send all your emails at 10 at night.

[00:20:14] You can unleash them at 7 in the morning.

[00:20:17] I think all those little things, again, the tipping point really add up to a good life balance.

[00:20:24] It gets everybody aligned.

[00:20:25] I love the scheduled send.

[00:20:27] I had a set of meetings and we were talking about this and we went around and say, what are ways that you can enable others to settle down?

[00:20:35] And I said, schedule send everything after 3 o'clock in the afternoon.

[00:20:39] They're like, what?

[00:20:40] And I was curious.

[00:20:41] I said, you tell me why after 3 o'clock in the afternoon, Eastern time, that you need to send the email unless you've committed to do it by close of business.

[00:20:52] Why did you invite someone to read something that they could read the next day rather than them stewing on it for the whole night when they didn't have to?

[00:21:03] I get up in the morning.

[00:21:04] I got my coffee and I'm going to go through my stuff.

[00:21:06] At least I'm in a place where I'm ready to go.

[00:21:09] Not like I'm picking up my daughter and waiting for her to come out and something hits me at 5 o'clock.

[00:21:15] And I got to think about that for the next so many hours.

[00:21:22] If you were to create your own music group, what type of music would you play?

[00:21:28] Who's going to listen to it?

[00:21:29] What kind of audience?

[00:21:31] And give me the band name.

[00:21:33] The visual context.

[00:21:35] I drive a big Ford truck.

[00:21:38] And if you got in it, my Pandora would sink and on would come Rebel Country Channel, which is a mash of hard rock and country.

[00:21:49] It's a new genre.

[00:21:50] Not so new though.

[00:21:51] Florida Georgia Line, Gilbert Brantley, Jelly Roll.

[00:21:55] Okay.

[00:21:56] You know, that's my jam.

[00:21:58] I grew up with hard rock and then I fell in love with country about half and half of my life.

[00:22:03] So now I get the best of both.

[00:22:06] All the good names are taken.

[00:22:08] Biscuit, Jelly Roll.

[00:22:10] I love food, which maybe I haven't made clear.

[00:22:14] Those that know me know that's true.

[00:22:16] So I don't know.

[00:22:17] Maybe I was thinking Pit Boss.

[00:22:20] I love that.

[00:22:22] You know, because a good barbecue.

[00:22:25] You got the Pit Boss going.

[00:22:26] The smell of smoke.

[00:22:27] You got, you know, a little bourbon.

[00:22:29] Your dogs are outside licking their chops.

[00:22:32] And your neighbors are coming over.

[00:22:33] And we're going to chow down on some good food.

[00:22:36] So I think Pit Boss.

[00:22:37] That Pit Boss and that description you just have, that's an album cover.

[00:22:41] Right there.

[00:22:42] I can like see that photo.

[00:22:44] There you go.

[00:22:45] You can smell it and taste it too.

[00:22:46] You can smell it.

[00:22:47] You can taste it.

[00:22:47] You can see it.

[00:22:48] Maybe we can do a scratch and sniff on the album cover.

[00:22:51] It's a good barbecue sauce.

[00:22:59] So you ready for the lightning round?

[00:23:01] I'm scared, but let's do it.

[00:23:03] These are fun questions that you don't know about.

[00:23:06] And I did that on purpose.

[00:23:08] Okay, ready?

[00:23:09] Ready.

[00:23:10] Pumpkin spice or gingerbread?

[00:23:12] Pumpkin spice.

[00:23:14] Toilet roll.

[00:23:15] Paper goes up the front or is it in the back?

[00:23:18] Oh, in the front.

[00:23:20] Summer or winter Olympics?

[00:23:23] Summer Olympics.

[00:23:25] Sandals.

[00:23:26] Socks or no socks allowed?

[00:23:28] No socks allowed.

[00:23:32] Popcorn with butter or without?

[00:23:34] Oh, with butter and salt.

[00:23:36] Can you bring fast food onto a plane?

[00:23:39] Yes or no?

[00:23:39] Yes.

[00:23:41] Okay.

[00:23:41] Roller coaster or water slide?

[00:23:44] Water slide.

[00:23:46] Oreos.

[00:23:46] Do you break them before you eat them or do you just eat them?

[00:23:49] I just eat them.

[00:23:50] Okay.

[00:23:52] Pancakes or waffles?

[00:23:53] Pancakes.

[00:23:55] Rainbow or chocolate sprinkles?

[00:23:58] Chocolate sprinkles.

[00:23:59] Okay.

[00:24:00] Android or Apple?

[00:24:01] Apple.

[00:24:03] Is the first Die Hard a Christmas movie?

[00:24:07] Yes, of course.

[00:24:09] Okay.

[00:24:09] One pillow or two?

[00:24:11] Two pillows.

[00:24:13] Pineapple on pizza.

[00:24:14] Yes or no?

[00:24:16] No.

[00:24:16] It's a sin.

[00:24:19] Book club or dance lessons?

[00:24:22] Dance lessons.

[00:24:24] I love it.

[00:24:24] That's it, man.

[00:24:25] That was a lightning round.

[00:24:26] That was painless.

[00:24:26] That's awesome.

[00:24:27] No.

[00:24:27] So dance lessons.

[00:24:29] I've never taken them.

[00:24:30] Well, no.

[00:24:30] That's a lie.

[00:24:31] I took them at the academy.

[00:24:33] But I need to take them.

[00:24:35] We went on a cruise.

[00:24:39] I'm a watcher and not a participant, which surprised everyone.

[00:24:43] Like, Phil, you're this crazy guy.

[00:24:44] Why aren't you out there in the middle?

[00:24:47] Big 300-pound, 6'3 dude.

[00:24:49] Get out there.

[00:24:51] You know what?

[00:24:52] There's a good story there.

[00:24:53] You can see all these album covers behind you.

[00:24:55] So it's a collection of my brothers, my fathers, my uncles, my grandfathers, and his brother.

[00:25:02] So my great...

[00:25:03] Holy cow, man.

[00:25:06] So I slept through a bunch of them.

[00:25:08] So my grandfather was a Navy man.

[00:25:11] That's right.

[00:25:12] And so after World War II, he came back into Chicago, ended up marrying my grandmother, and they were big-time dancers.

[00:25:19] Wow.

[00:25:20] And we always said that they were married for over 50 years, and they danced every year of their life.

[00:25:26] That's awesome.

[00:25:27] So some of his stuff is on here, which is cool.

[00:25:29] Hey, man, this has been great.

[00:25:31] I appreciate you as a leader and getting out there and the work that you do.

[00:25:36] I can't wait to see who's smart enough to snatch you up, man.

[00:25:40] And just, you know, not even about next level.

[00:25:43] Forget that.

[00:25:44] It's about being on the level.

[00:25:46] Right?

[00:25:46] I've been very intentional on this one.

[00:25:48] I'm excited.

[00:25:49] I'm trying to stick with the big purpose, the big mission.

[00:25:53] I love being the dumb guy in the room.

[00:25:55] I'm addicted to it like it's a drug.

[00:25:57] And so there's nothing like looking around the room every day after a staff meeting or a team meeting just going,

[00:26:04] what am I doing here?

[00:26:05] I'm just a dumb kid from North Idaho.

[00:26:07] I love that feeling.

[00:26:08] So hopefully I'll lay in that and the impact on lives or changing the world.

[00:26:13] It's cliche, but once you've had it, once you've tasted it, going back to that one.

[00:26:20] Philip, thanks so much for being here on the show.

[00:26:23] I really appreciate it.

[00:26:24] And that's it for us, everyone.

[00:26:27] Thanks again for another episode of Reciprocity with AG.

[00:26:32] We'll see you next time.