Findem's Brett Coin on AI and Talent Acquisition

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[00:00:26] Welcome to PeopleTech, the podcast of WorkforceAI.news. I'm Mark Pfeffer.

[00:00:42] Today I chat with Brett Coin, the Chief Transformation Officer at Findem.

[00:00:47] They use AI to automate and consolidate what goes on at the top of the Talent Acquisition funnel.

[00:00:54] We're going to talk about AI and how it fits into Talent Acquisition,

[00:00:58] changing perceptions about it, and the dynamics of vendors and users.

[00:01:02] All on this edition of PeopleTech.

[00:01:07] Hi, Brett.

[00:01:09] What's going on out there in terms of AI and Talent Acquisition technology?

[00:01:17] Are things still as nutty as they were, say, a year ago?

[00:01:20] Or was the whole question about AI and having to deal with AI settling down?

[00:01:26] I think it depends on who you ask.

[00:01:28] It felt like a year ago.

[00:01:31] AI wasn't a new concept at all.

[00:01:33] It just seems to have really, really, really come to the surface.

[00:01:36] But it does seem like there's a lot more fear and lack of understanding a year ago.

[00:01:41] It does feel like right now people are starting to get a little bit of a handle on it.

[00:01:46] It's not taking people's jobs.

[00:01:48] That was maybe the year-ago perception.

[00:01:50] It can really help enhance if you let it.

[00:01:54] And I think we go from there.

[00:01:57] It still feels like there's a lot of ambiguity and lack of understanding,

[00:02:02] but it does feel like things are a little more calm.

[00:02:06] There's a little better understanding than there was a year ago.

[00:02:08] Can you talk a little bit about the pressure that both sides are under,

[00:02:14] meaning the customers are feeling pressure to do the right thing with AI?

[00:02:20] Vendors like Findum are under pressure to provide the right things using AI.

[00:02:26] How is that balancing out?

[00:02:30] That's a good question.

[00:02:33] My experience in talent acquisition is often the vendors are ahead of the users.

[00:02:40] So people building products tend to not be talent acquisition people.

[00:02:45] And they find needs or niche in the market and they build.

[00:02:49] And then sometimes it's ahead of its time.

[00:02:51] And it feels like that's where we are.

[00:02:54] From a feeling pressure perspective, the way I would answer that question is

[00:02:59] some people are feeling pressure.

[00:03:01] Some are not.

[00:03:01] I think with AI talking, the advantage of now being practitioner for a long time,

[00:03:07] moving to a vendor job, what's fun is I get to talk to all these practitioners.

[00:03:11] I think the normal third, third, third rule applies here.

[00:03:13] There's a third that are early adopters.

[00:03:16] They're putting pressure on themselves because they want to be ahead of the curve,

[00:03:20] innovative leaders.

[00:03:21] There's the middle pack, a third who, you know,

[00:03:24] there's maybe some pressure coming from the company.

[00:03:26] Can you be implementing AI to drive productivity gains and efficiency?

[00:03:32] And I think what's really behind that question from CFOs, for example,

[00:03:36] is can you reduce your headcount and do more with less?

[00:03:38] That's kind of where the conversation goes.

[00:03:40] And I can see those leaders are actually feeling the pressure.

[00:03:43] And then the third, you know, I'd say they're just, they're not there yet.

[00:03:48] And the company's not putting pressure on them.

[00:03:50] They're not putting pressure on themselves.

[00:03:51] They're taking a wait and see.

[00:03:52] On the vendor side, it's pressure to help vendors gain a deep understanding of where,

[00:03:59] how, and when to use AI.

[00:04:02] And really measuring and showing ROI that by adopting AI in certain areas of a workflow,

[00:04:13] for example, that it really is saving time.

[00:04:17] And it's really helping the recruiter or the sources, you know,

[00:04:20] it's improving the life of the customer.

[00:04:22] It feels like we're still at the beginning stages of that.

[00:04:25] There are certainly some proof of concepts and some customers who have really adopted and said,

[00:04:30] wow, I feel it.

[00:04:31] I can definitely, we had one last week where I am now with a customer who said something that

[00:04:37] we've implemented for them has led to a drastic reduction in time spent doing a

[00:04:41] historically very menial task.

[00:04:45] Hi there.

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[00:05:26] Thanks.

[00:05:26] It feels like also this is happening in a sort of more business-like environment where the

[00:05:33] vendors and the customers are having a different kind of conversation that's not so geared toward

[00:05:40] pushing ahead, but to figuring out the right solution.

[00:05:44] Am I right on that?

[00:05:46] I think that's right.

[00:05:49] I think the vendors are always pushing a little harder.

[00:05:53] One of the things I've noticed, like I said, the concept of AI has been around a long time.

[00:05:57] I was at Intuit forever.

[00:05:58] And back in 2016, 17, we were testing machine learning and AI tools to do things.

[00:06:04] Nowhere near where they are today.

[00:06:06] But the vendors are always in more of a rush, it feels like.

[00:06:11] Because the point I was going to make was we live, sleep, breathe AI every day if you're

[00:06:17] working in a technology vendor that's AI first.

[00:06:20] So I think my understanding of it accelerated greatly coming here as opposed to being on the

[00:06:26] practitioner side, where on the practitioner side, yeah, I think it's more they're going to move at the pace

[00:06:33] they want and need to move to make sure they're doing the right things for themselves.

[00:06:37] And then also, depending on the industry you're in, if you're in banking versus tech or manufacturing

[00:06:43] or financial services, tends to be more compliance and regulation.

[00:06:49] And so sometimes there might be a desire to move faster and you just can't as a practitioner.

[00:06:57] Now, thinking also about the work of the vendor, it felt to me when I was watching, it must have been

[00:07:05] really kind of crazy trying to build new products amid all the hype that's going on.

[00:07:12] Is that true?

[00:07:13] I mean, I sense that some people were getting caught up in a dynamic where they were trying

[00:07:19] to build the latest and greatest thing, but the definition of latest and greatest was changing

[00:07:25] by the hour almost.

[00:07:27] How does a company like Findem deal with that?

[00:07:31] So I would say there's two things going on to your point.

[00:07:35] The first one is there are a lot of companies trying to build the latest and greatest.

[00:07:41] And so that can create confusion for customers.

[00:07:45] What is the greatest thing latest?

[00:07:47] How do I know it works?

[00:07:49] I think what's different about Findem and one of the great things about being on the practitioner

[00:07:54] side for so long and then coming here and how I look at the problem and some of the practitioners

[00:07:59] I've hired relative to, say, a vendor who's never worked on the other side is latest and

[00:08:05] greatest is going to be defined by the customer.

[00:08:07] And so really getting deeply knowledgeable about what are the problems that the customer is

[00:08:13] trying to solve.

[00:08:15] More often than not, they're trying to save time.

[00:08:17] They're trying to save money.

[00:08:18] They're trying to become more productive.

[00:08:20] And they want a great experience.

[00:08:21] Those are the four things that I've clearly landed on that the customers are looking for.

[00:08:26] So I think what's going to differentiate vendors are those who spend a lot of time listening and

[00:08:32] asking questions and solving the problems that are most important to the customer.

[00:08:37] And that will be defined by the customer as what is the latest and greatest versus those who

[00:08:41] go off and build what they think it is.

[00:08:43] And then, you know, the customer gets their hands on it.

[00:08:46] Now, one of the messages that comes out loud and clear in the market for AI is that this is

[00:08:53] going to increase your efficiency.

[00:08:55] It's going to increase your productivity.

[00:08:59] That's what everybody talks about.

[00:09:03] But is that really it?

[00:09:05] Are there other things that AI, a general of AI are going to do besides just save time?

[00:09:12] So I do.

[00:09:13] And I'll answer the save time, though, first, because I think that is a really important,

[00:09:17] again, back to vendors telling the customer how they're going to save time versus the customers

[00:09:23] fitting AI solutions into how they're working day to day and finding opportunities in their

[00:09:29] workflow.

[00:09:30] I think this is something we're working really hard to do.

[00:09:33] It's like we have to find ways as vendors to align to how people are used to doing their

[00:09:39] job and look for opportunities within where they spend time to add a layer of AI that is

[00:09:46] actually going to benefit them.

[00:09:47] I'll give you a perfect example.

[00:09:48] I spent a lot of years as a recruiter logging into my applicant tracking system, and I get

[00:09:53] three, four, 500.

[00:09:54] I'm seeing customers and friends of mine saying that they're getting 1,500 applicants per rec.

[00:10:00] Going through them one at a time.

[00:10:02] Application review.

[00:10:03] AI can do, you run your search, apply it against the inbound applicants.

[00:10:08] Rank scores and filters in about a second.

[00:10:11] Saving a lot, a lot of time where I think it will do things other than where I'm already

[00:10:16] seeing it doing things for people aside from just saving time is up leveling your ability

[00:10:23] to move quickly with a lot more information.

[00:10:28] Consolidation of information and having AI and generative AI help summarize, answer questions,

[00:10:35] take a person's profile, match it to the job description.

[00:10:38] Hey, write me a summary why this person is a good fit.

[00:10:41] Another example, recruiters and sourcers spend a lot of time typing up emails to attach a resume

[00:10:45] and send it to a hiring manager.

[00:10:47] A lot of the technology that we have, for example, can do that in a second.

[00:10:50] And so it is saving money, but it's also up leveling the insights that you might be providing

[00:10:56] to the manager, the amount of information that the AI can process and help you summarize

[00:11:01] and put thoughts essentially together and send it off.

[00:11:06] Analyzing data.

[00:11:07] I have found in my career as a practitioner, understanding data and being able to tell a story

[00:11:13] is something you have to learn and there's an art to it.

[00:11:16] Some people are really good at it.

[00:11:17] Some people are not.

[00:11:19] When it comes to talent analytics and metrics and reporting, having, for example, generative

[00:11:24] AI that can interpret the data and tell a compelling story to help influence where people may spend

[00:11:30] their time or what their focus should be to get a different outcome, that's up leveling the

[00:11:37] recruiter, giving them an advantage in terms of, let's say you have a recruiter or recruiting

[00:11:43] director and they're not used to or haven't really been taught how to interpret the right

[00:11:47] data.

[00:11:47] If you can apply generative AI and ask the right questions to that data set and get really

[00:11:53] good summary answers, you're essentially teaching yourself how to analyze data, interpret it, tell

[00:12:00] the story, and you're up leveling yourself.

[00:12:02] And so you're growing in your role and you don't need someone to teach you how to do that.

[00:12:07] And I've seen this play out here.

[00:12:09] So it's pretty, pretty interesting.

[00:12:12] Well, Brett, thanks so much.

[00:12:13] It's really interesting talking with you.

[00:12:15] I hope you'll come back and do it again.

[00:12:17] Thanks for having me.

[00:12:19] Sure.

[00:12:31] My guest today has been Brett Coyne, the chief transformation officer at FindNem.

[00:12:36] And this has been PeopleTech, the podcast of workforceai.news.

[00:12:41] We're a part of the Work Defined Podcast Network.

[00:12:44] Find them at www.wrkdefined.com.

[00:12:51] And to keep up with AI technology and HR, subscribe to Workforce AI today.

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[00:13:00] Find us at www.workforceai.news.

[00:13:06] I'm Mark Pfeffer.

[00:13:07] Thank you.