What Every Payroll Leader Must Know About Global Payments

[00:00:00] Here we go. Welcome back, folks. It's another episode of It's About Payroll. And we got an amazing guest today that is going to let us know what's going on. Man, I'm excited for today. So let's get right to it because I'm anxious to hear what our guest has to say today. So payroll professionals know that getting payroll calculated correctly is only half the battle.

[00:00:24] Their to have is making sure people actually receive their money accurately on time in the right currency and through the right payment rails. Our guest today, Andy Valentine, Key Account Director at I hope I'm saying this right. eBerry or eBerry? Correct. Well done. Yes, spot on eBerry. Eberry. All right. A company that helps businesses manage international payments, FX collections and global money movement.

[00:00:51] Andy works in a space where payroll, finance, treasury, compliance, technology and employee experience all meet. So today we're going to talk to Andy about global payments, international workforce challenges, payment failures, currency risk and what payroll leaders and other leaders can do to help themselves understand. Well, I'm sorry, I read that wrong. So what payroll leaders need to understand as companies continue to hire and operate across borders.

[00:01:21] Andy, welcome to It's About Payroll. Thank you very much, Jets, Brian and Waltz. Fantastic. Lovely to meet you guys. Yeah, it's a real treat to be asked to join you guys to talk about a side of payroll as everyone is looking to go global and finding markets aside that often people overlook. And so, you know, I'm looking forward to check with you guys and get into the into the reads with this one on how we can sort of help. Hopefully. Absolutely.

[00:01:51] People simplify, you know, the process. I have a quick question. What does FX stand for in that breakdown there? So foreign exchange. Foreign exchange. Okay. Yeah. Like it, like it, like any industry, we're really bad at using sort of. Yeah. Got it. So, you know, not using the full words. Yeah. No, everything is acronym driven and Walt loves acronyms. And my daughter just hit me with a text acronym the other day. I was like, what is she talking about? Anywho.

[00:02:18] Andy, for those folks who are not familiar with eBerry, can you tell us what eBerry does? And of course, what your role as key account director involves? Sure. Okay. So eBerry is eBerry is a an international financial services organization headquartered in London, founded in 2009. It's fully licensed to provide some really key services, I think, to companies that are looking to grow and trade internationally.

[00:02:47] And that is foreign exchange, obviously, to protect against volatility of the foreign exchange. If you're buying and selling goods overseas and, as we know, the foreign exchange rates are always changing. And how do you protect your bottom line from any of those fluctuations? We also specialize in delivering global payments to ensure people are paid, not only so from my side, from a payroll payments perspective, specialists in time critical payments. And we also do wider payments, such as your invoices, accounts payable, et cetera.

[00:03:17] And then in other divisions, we have finance. So if companies are looking to finance their purchase or acquisitions overseas, well, so we're kind of trying to help the importers or companies that are trading internationally to go from fixing the rates, financing the goods they're purchasing, and then delivering payments accordingly and collecting funds. And that's the other part of the business we do is to help people collect funds locally in around 35 different currencies.

[00:03:45] So it means that, yeah, we can open a sub-account for you in different currencies, and you can put that on your invoice and trade like a local. And that's really trying to make life borderless as we grow globally in terms of businesses. Yeah. That's the buzzword, borderless. Borderless. Yeah. Awesome. Indeed.

[00:04:06] So, Andy, when people usually think about payroll, they tend to just only consider like the gross-to-net calculations, taxes, compliance maybe. But in your world, where you actually move money between destinations, could you explain why the payment side of payroll is so important for listeners? Absolutely. Because if it – well, that's a great question.

[00:04:37] You're not paid until you're paid. And just because you're working for an international company versus a UK or a US domestic company doesn't mean that you should be penalized because you're getting paid from, you know, centrally or regionally, you know. And I think it's such a critical part that has so much of an impact on people's lives. You imagine if you're paid three, four, five days late because someone somewhere didn't do their job properly.

[00:05:02] There wasn't a thorough sort of review of the data or review of what's gone wrong and support in place to try and facilitate a resolution. And that poor person is actually, you know, the mortgages, the rent's bouncing, you name it, et cetera. So they've got that concern for themselves and the family. So I think it's an area that, you know, we have – and I have spent like 20 years – next year is my 20th year in this sector.

[00:05:29] And in that time, it hasn't – technology has moved on, which is fantastic. But there's still lots of areas that people need to take into account to ensure that their people are going to be paid on time. Because not only does it impact the employees, but also reputational risk. I mean, this is a competitive market. And if you're not paying people on time and it becomes a bit of a habit, they're going to vote with their feet and go somewhere else. That's right. So you have to be super, super vigilant.

[00:05:59] And I think the bridge – what I've always tried to be built over the years I've been working on this – is the bridge between payroll and finance. And to actually – for those guys to work closer together to actually see, right, how can we help each other? Because certainly HL payroll will hear when people have not been paid. And then they'll go down the hall to finance and go, why, guys, what's going on? So then that's the blame game starts.

[00:06:21] But you didn't need to have the blame game because working jointly, you can actually resolve and working with a proficient payment provider or your bank. We're not trying to replace banks. But you need to be proficient and have a great relationship with your payment providers or banks. But this becomes really tricky if you are a truly global company with multiple entities and you have to utilise multiple banks around the world.

[00:06:48] And as you can imagine, for finance teams, that in itself is a resource-heavy process that has to be managed very, very carefully. So similar things, things like signing onto multiple bank accounts. Who's got access to that bank account? So the security piece is key. Then you've got to think about, right, is there enough funds in that account to deliver payment to my people as I require? Am I underfunding that? Am I overfunding that account? Yeah.

[00:07:17] Is there money sitting in that account that is dormant, that is actually not benefiting my business because it's outside of my business and it's just sitting there doing nothing? And the other thing is, what is the support you're going to get from that bank if things do go wrong? Trust me, things do go wrong. There are still humans involved in this process. And it could be Friday afternoon and it's all gone wrong. Something's not been paid. But you are literally, you know, seven time zones different in a different language and you're trying to get hold of a bank to resolve.

[00:07:43] So there's lots and lots of areas where you have to sort of firm up and test before you then go live with any new payroll or introduce any new country into your payroll and roll out as it were. Hey there, I'm Tim Boras, host of the Working Well podcast, where business strategy meets human sustainability. If you're an executive, a leader or change maker ready to ditch burnout, build thriving teams and drive real results, this is your next must listen.

[00:08:13] Tune in on the Work Defined Network or at timboras.com forward slash podcast. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. So what payroll teams often say we process payroll correctly, but then an employee says I didn't get paid. What are some of the common reasons a global payment can fail or be delayed? OK, so number one is it's got to be down to the number one cause is down to beneficiary data.

[00:08:43] OK, it sounds strange and this is why it's really important. So that when an employee, you know, puts the bank account details on whatever system it is, if it's SAP, if it's Workday, whatever platform the organization is using. It's really important that that is verified. So when you're working with an organization, you want to work with someone that's going to verify that data prior to any live payments going out.

[00:09:07] OK, so we do that as an organization and we check and validate the data in our system to prior prior to any go live payouts. And that will then highlight that what the structure that could be that there's a digit missing in a bank account or that they code for the bank that that person's banking with in that country isn't correct. OK, so highlighting those anomalies to give you a chance to go back to the employer. Right. We've been advised. This isn't correct. Please. Can you recheck?

[00:09:35] We've even had cases where people are putting bank accounts that shut down that they're not using anymore. You know, so it's actually trying to pay themselves to in a bank account that doesn't exist anymore. So so that's one reason is data. Data is key. Making sure that beneficial that employee has put their bank account data in correctly and it looks good. The second reason that can be delayed is very often you have situations where you're going through multiple banks to get a payment to the beneficiary.

[00:10:04] And the reason why banks do this is because not all banks have relationships with each other. It's a there's a there's a there's an organization called Swift, which is a yeah, it's a worldwide telecommunication for financial communications that banks use to communicate with each other. But even so, banks will use correspondent bank networks. So if you're sending a payment, say, from a bank in Georgia, Walt, and you want to get a payment, payroll payment to a person in Kampala in Uganda,

[00:10:31] it's very unlikely that the bank that your company banks with is going to have a relationship with that bank in Kampala. So therefore, you have to find a map. It's like how do you get that payment messaging to Kampala to that bank and facilitate that payment? What can happen is that very often if the data isn't correct or if there is a block or there's a compliance issue through that chain that can hold up the payment until that until that verification of why.

[00:11:01] Why is it? What is it they're looking to investigate? What is it that's put the red flag up? That's said, hang on a second. We're going to put a hold on that. And sometimes, very simply, it could be that certain countries require specific information to be sent with that payment. And very often, if that is specific information, say, into India, into the US, even the specific information you need, if that information isn't there, it's going to be blocked. It's going to be stopped.

[00:11:26] So therefore, you will then be notified accordingly so that you can then go back and try and rectify that. But it will still stay in limbo. That payment will stay in limbo until that payment, sorry, until the information is provided to satisfy the bank to then create, OK, that's great. We can then process into the beneficiary's bank and then they can credit the employee's bank account. The other reason as well is that often, very often, you get compliance hits.

[00:11:54] Now, as licensed financial services organizations, the banks are as we are, we have to comply with checking the data and the payments and the money. We're moving around against anti-money laundering compliance checks, OK? This is super, super serious. Trillions of dollars a year are fraudulently processed and hidden in payments. And therefore, we have to be on our best guard to actually try and catch these out.

[00:12:24] Now, you'd think with payroll, you'll be fine. You know where the money is coming from. This is the employer and it's going to the employee. However, there are still situations where a person's name could be very similar to a person who's on an agency watch list. Yeah? And that will then mean that that payment is frozen. And then we, as a provider, cannot tell our partners. We cannot tell our clients. We cannot tell why it's being put on hold.

[00:12:53] It's frustrating because people want answers. But we have to then do our due diligence. And then what happens is they'll request, like, get hold of passports, get hold of proof of address, etc. And then we need to qualify that person out that it's not the person that's being watched by the agencies that are watching. Gosh. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:13] So, all of this can be, a lot of this can actually be solved by how much preparation is taken pre-payment, pre-go live. Okay? By checking the beneficiary data that you have is the first step in this, yeah? Work with your partner, your provider, your bank. Use their platform and upload that payment. Sorry, upload the beneficiary data. Check that. That's number one.

[00:13:42] Number two, and we do this with all our payroll partners and payroll, new payroll clients, is we send the tiny amounts to either every single employee. Yeah, it's called a penny test. It's nothing new. Yeah. Okay? It's nothing new. Like a pre-note almost. Yeah, you've got it. You've got it, right? So, you send like a pre, a very small amount, the smallest amount you can send to get it through. But what that does is it's really beneficial because it does two things. One, it checks the beneficiary. Well, actually, it does three things, sorry.

[00:14:10] It checks the beneficiary data in a live format. Okay? So, okay, great. Yeah, we've checked it. The system said it was good, but we've now actually physically paid it. It will also help us to lock down the best route in terms of which route we're going to send the payment. And if we're sending it via local rails or we're sending it internationally or which, which, how's the best way to get this money to this particular person in this part of this country? Yeah. So then we can lock that down.

[00:14:32] The third thing is that it potentially could throw up the red flags of the compliance checks with the names because they are live. And therefore, agency watch lists and the names, as I mentioned, the compliance hits, could show up at that testing stage rather than when you go live. Yeah? So, again, you're potentially reducing the risk of someone not being paid on time because they just have to have a similar name to someone who's on the naughty step list. Yeah? Yeah. So there's that.

[00:15:02] The third, the fourth thing as well is that actually once you've made a payment, once you've made a payment to someone, that data is locked down. So therefore, it stops anyone changing that bank account detail into their own bank account details, make a payment to them and swap it back into the original bank account details. So what it does is it actually stops the potential, it's not a very nice word to talk about, but the potential of fraud happening as well. Okay?

[00:15:28] So it sounds old-fashioned by saying we do penny testing, but it's literally, there are so many good features that it covers and encompasses. Yeah. It's good testing. Yeah. Especially with all those moving parts. Andy, you just dropped a lot of knowledge there. And like the fact that you said that this is like trillions of dollars in payments that you're moving.

[00:15:51] And so I can only imagine the checks and balances that need to be in place, the guardrails that need to be in place to assure that people are paid properly. Before I ask my next question, I have another question to ask about approvals and timing. Can the timing that a payment is sent impact when an employee receives those funds?

[00:16:16] And can approvals like impact that or lack of approvals impact when a person gets paid to? Well, really good question. And again, this is where the discussion between payroll and the bridge between payroll and finance is so, so key. Okay. Because, and I have to be very careful because we're an organization that's majority owned by a bank. We partner with many banks around the world. Okay.

[00:16:45] So this is, but by working with a specialist like a sales, for example, what we do, we actually work backwards, working with our payroll provider partners or with our direct clients. We find out what's payday, which are the countries that we're paying to, what are the currencies that are required. We then through our platform, we then can tell you how long it would take to get those payments to someone in the Philippines, someone into Chile. Yeah.

[00:17:14] And if you, if you think about it, we have to be very clear, careful how we do this. So what we do, we tend to take the, so contractually, you need to deliver Brian and Walt, you need to deliver 10,000 or a hundred thousand pesos to Steve in the Philippines. Contractually. If you don't deliver that, you're in breach of contract. Yeah. So just because someone's had a nibble along the way with the correspondent bank fees, it's not his fault or her fault. Yeah. It's the company.

[00:17:41] So therefore they've been penalized by not being paid correctly. Yeah. Because they're being paid internationally. So what we do is you work out, you work out a, the date that is pay date. You then work that backwards accordingly to when the payments need to be released by. Okay. And then what we do is we work out, let's say the funding is coming from the United States.

[00:18:04] Let's say it's a US corporation that is funding centrally in US dollars, but they are paying 10 people in the, you know, Chile, 15 people in the Philippines, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. We'll take that file either directly from them. We'll take our payment file that they've created directly from or through their global payer provider that's partnered with us. We'll upload that onto our system and then we can work out what is the longest time that we need to deliver that payment. Okay.

[00:18:30] And the key part is to then how, when do we release those payments to achieve pay date? Paying early is bad. Paying late is no, no. Yeah. Yeah. So we have to coordinate how we do that with the time zones to ensure that we're achieving time zone differences to ensure pay day is the 25th, whether it's in the Philippines or it's in Chile. Yeah.

[00:18:51] So what is really, really critical to this is that we work very much on a payroll calendar with our clients and actually work out pay day backwards. You then work out, okay, guys, we've, we've, we've seen the countries that we have the longest value, the longest time that we need is two days to deliver this payment. So therefore we need cleared funds. We need to have your cleared funds to pay these people at the latest three days before pay day.

[00:19:19] And then they'll work that then backwards and backwards and backwards. Now, what can happen and has happened is that bless them, poor old finance have got busy. It's the end of the month. They've got lots of things going on and someone's forgot to go, ah, I'll push, I'll push the funds to, to ourselves, to Ebreed before the cutoff. And we'll say the cutoff time is four o'clock on the fourth day before it has to go out. We need this funds then. Very often that is forgotten about and it's, and it's missed.

[00:19:49] So therefore everyone jumps on, you know, jumps on and, and, and basically tries to help resolve that issue where as best as we can to get people, people paid. But it is a really critical part is that actually financing, approving the transactions in time and funding the payroll requirements to reach us before the cutoff time is otherwise we're going to miss pay day. Yeah. Not for everyone, but we may miss pay day for the Philippines because it takes two days.

[00:20:17] And then we've only got one day window because they've not received that. We've not received the funds. Wow. So long winded answer. Apologies. No, I love it. It's all great information. This is a great information and very educational.

[00:20:31] So in terms of the currency exchange rates, and I think you may have touched on this a little bit, but, and FX, how the risk associated with those, how does that impact companies that pay people or vendors across borders? Welcome to Don't Tell Me About Yourself, the podcast where old school hiring meets a modern reality check. I'm Lorna Erickson. And I'm Victoria Gates. And we're the co-founders of Expert Interviewers.

[00:21:00] Between the two of us, we've got 40 years of hiring experience. We've studied interviewing techniques. We've trained thousands of people globally to stop making the same mistakes over and over again. And we've got 340,000 people following us online because apparently everyone has a story about a bad interview. You know the ones. The illegal questions, the 45-minute monologues, showing up late with no apology. So every week we're tackling the biggest subjects in hiring.

[00:21:24] We bring real stories, real data, and real talk about how to make interviews actually work for everyone. Because great hiring isn't luck. It's a practice skill. So whether you hire, apply, or just love a good interview train wreck, the show is for you. Sure. And this is a big issue. And this is a big part of payroll leakage. You know, when you're expanding globally, there are so many pieces. And let's say you've gone through a mergers and acquisition piece, and you've suddenly acquired 500 extra headcount across three countries.

[00:21:54] You know, the bank accounts are going to be switched off. And have you got a bank account in place and all those considerations? But also, well, you mentioned FX. It is one of the key parts of ensuring people are paid on time. But it needs to be planned and scoped properly. So the risk, what happens with a lot of companies that I've seen in my experience is what they've been told, right, you need to open a local bank account in the country that you're dealing with, okay?

[00:22:21] Now that in some cases is true if they've got a real operational requirement, okay? If they literally, it's been set up purely to pay people, then technically they don't need to necessarily have that bank account open, okay? So then what they do is, what they do is they'll then estimate what the payroll costs are, and they will send, they'll exchange currency and then deliver that currency into that local bank account in the correct currency. And they'll just sit there waiting.

[00:22:49] Now the issue with that is that very often they will plus or minus 5%, 10% on that. Now if you're looking at a fairly large headcount, that can suddenly add up to a considerable amount of money that's sitting there dormant. Particularly if it's in a currency that is non-liquid. And what I mean by that is that you can buy it, but you can't sell it. So therefore you then have to wait for another month to then go, great, I can then use that excess balance I've got. Which if you've got 10 or 15 of those accounts around the world, that could add up to quite a lot of money that's sitting there.

[00:23:19] Not in your business, not doing anything for your business. So what I would recommend to anyone listening is, obviously if you're a big enough organization, and you've got your own P&L in the country, and you've got your own bank accounts, and you don't need any currency assistance, well that's fantastic. But if you're literally sitting there managing centrally from the US or even regionally, how are we going to manage the flow of all these different currencies? I've got to go through this process of buying the currency, then making a payment to the bank account,

[00:23:47] and then the local team or even us will have to access that local bank and make the payment. A very simple way of doing it and how we do it, we work backwards. So we go, right, your payroll provider's told you this is the payment amounts in each currency in each country for each employee. And what we can then do is then total that back into a USD figure. The sooner they can load that up onto our system, or if their payroll provider loads it onto our system,

[00:24:17] we can then fix that exchange rate there and then. So we are then purely asking for the exact amount in USD that needs to be paid to us as a lump sum for us to then disperse all around the world in time, as we planned it, yeah, but then you're literally working on keeping as much cash in your business in a viable currency like USD rather than it being sitting there in a non-liquid currency that's not going to help your business.

[00:24:45] And as a CFO, you probably wouldn't be too well thought of if you've got lots and lots of balances around the world in liquid currencies that sort of could be being used back in the States, for example. So it's really, really careful because by fixing the FX early in the day, right, there's no volatility. Your provider would have gone out into the market. They would have secured the FX. That's it. It's bought. It's done. It's done. Yeah. And then what you do is, right, I need Mr. Client.

[00:25:13] I need your USD, your million USD or whatever it may be by the 20th of the month to achieve the 25th or the 21st of the month to achieve the 25th, whatever the case may be. But that way it's fixed. You know then the amount that you need to secure. Wow. Amazing. Yeah. Right. What a speechless. He's like, wow. That's when you know we're learning some stuff here.

[00:25:41] You said it was you hope you can entertain and teach, man. Definitely so. So let me ask you this. Where do you see payroll, finance and treasury needing to work more closer together when it comes to these global payments? That's a really good question. I've got a bunch of good ones here. That's a really good one. I think, look, as I was walking around the Payroll Congress last week in Nashville, it's just interesting to see what were the key subjects,

[00:26:10] what are the key drivers in the industry, you know. Obviously, you're bound to say AI. I cannot not say AI is involved. That's really, really key. And look, and that's coming in place with the financial sort of platforms and actually finding a payroll leakage is to reduce that payroll leakage. So what do I see happening? I see there's going to be a growth in the use of stable coin.

[00:26:34] And for those of you that don't know what stable coin truly is, and I'll try and explain as simple as possible. Stable coin is normally like a government bat or a government bat of crypto coin currency. Okay. But it's used purely from a predominant, and people that are in the cryptocurrency world and instead of kind of probably shoot me down with this and this explanation. But it's literally used.

[00:27:00] It's a really simple way to buy credits, and then you're literally sending messages instantly. Okay. But you still need to have what we call off ramps. So you still need to use what we call a fiat currency. A fiat currency is currency, US dollar, GBP, et cetera. So what you're doing is you're combining the security of the currencies, like USDT is one of the big crypto stable coins.

[00:27:29] That's balanced against USD, it's one to one. Yeah. So it's far more secure than being paid in Bitcoin, for example, because Bitcoin's potentially doing this. Okay. Yeah. So I can see that happening. The reason for that, there's two reasons. One, because it actually reduces the exposure when you're working with currencies that are really what we call exotic. You know, you're really challenging currencies, challenging countries. It helps reduce the volatility a little bit.

[00:27:59] It also means that potentially CFOs can keep the cash for longer in their business. So I can see that really coming to play. The key piece that's really, really important is there's still the gray area is around the compliance piece, because you need to obviously ensure that your compliance procedures, et cetera, are in place. So I see that happening. I see the growth. You mentioned it already earlier, is the reduction of what we call cross-border transactions into local payments. So as an organization, we're doing the same. We're going around the world.

[00:28:29] We're opening bank accounts locally. We're accessing local payment rails. And then what we're doing is we're literally using balance sheets to move money to the different accounts that we need to facilitate payments to our clients, employees as required. And what that does is it reduces the reliance on Swift, which, bless them, it's an amazing, amazing solution. It's been around for 50, 60 years. But unfortunately, it's not the most cost-effective way of sending money around the world.

[00:28:57] And also, it's not the fastest. Okay. So speed is the next piece. So speed, compliance, low cost. Yeah. And importantly, then there's visibility. Because the one thing that often, and Swift have worked on this to improve this, but there's that requirement for visibility. If I could give you guys the ability to see what is happening to all your different payments and currencies around the world to ensure your CFO going, great, I can see where all the payments are.

[00:29:24] If payroll ring me up and go, hi, this hasn't been paid yet, it's because, ah, it's going to be there at this time. And it's giving you that granular data that you guys need. The beauty about this then rolls up into providing great detail and data for CFOs to then start planning. Because they've got access, they've got this data at their fingertips. It's happening quicker. They haven't got to wait for the bank reports to come in that are in different formats from all around the world.

[00:29:52] And they've got to try and dissect all of that information into one format that your business can consume. So then it's go, right, okay, I've consumed it. Now I can start making decisions for that business. So I can see all of this coming into place. It's happening already. It's fantastic. I think it's a truly exciting time to be in payroll and payments globally. But, yeah, so that's kind of where I see it going. And I think the next 18 months is going to really be quite interesting. Wow.

[00:30:22] So you kind of answered, like, my next question. So I'm going to ask. Sorry, Walt. No, no, you're good. You're good. It's good. It's a perfect segue. Like, so in terms of technology and AI, which you hinted on a little bit, right? You already spoke about better payment visibilities and companies becoming more automated and integrating those APIs and stuff.

[00:30:44] Do you see any potential blind spots that companies may have when they implement the new technologies and AI going forward? Do you think that there will be something that people aren't ready for in terms of, like, those scammers? Because there was another episode that Brian and I were on, just to give you a little bit more context here.

[00:31:08] And we were talking about how scammers are using their, they have an SA, a service as a software model for their stuff. So how, as we improve and scammers improve, what blind spots do you think that companies or payment professionals like yourself should be on the lookout for? Absolutely. And totally understand.

[00:31:31] I mean, look, we literally have, this is how clever scammers have got now, where they're now ringing up our office using the voice of our CEO telling certain traders and dealers in our office to move money to this account. Yeah. And it sounds just like him. And if you didn't know better, you go, okay, right, the CEO wants me, has told me to do this. Okay. We've caught them out. You have to be so aware. So I think, I think, I think taking shortcuts is the key to this, to stop this.

[00:32:00] I think it's the classic, if it looks too good, it is too good to be true. And if you've got people knocking on the door going, okay, well, look, you know, I can, I can make this happen. I can reduce this cost. I can do this for a lot less money. All I need is your bank account data and all I need is this, et cetera. I think, look, when you, when you were trying to go, you've really got to work with bona fide organizations because the trouble is at the moment. And again, I am not knocking.

[00:32:29] We work with employer record organizations, for example, but there's an awful lot of employer record organizations and it doesn't take much to set one up to pop it that are popping up going, oh, we can do all this. We can subscribe, we can do this when actually technically it's all a front and no, they can't. And all they're after is I'll invoice you for the service. You pay me into this account. And those people, those consultants that you meant to be playing, those contractors you meant to be playing, they'll never see light of day of that money. You know, it's all been set up. So I think due diligence is key with this.

[00:32:58] So working with bona fide organizations, due diligence into those organizations and who you're working with and what, and literally be quite painful in terms of very probing in some ways. If you are looking and you're growing and let's say you're looking to find out whether Namibia or let's say Thailand could be a real interest to you as an organization is to really drill into who, which companies you're going to work with and actually get recommendations, get referrals, do that.

[00:33:27] And I think also the testing piece between all the technology. You know, when I started, people were literally going down the bank with a piece of paper and then making a payment and getting their foreign exchange and the bank was making it on a day rate. And that's how it worked. Now, everything is so integrated and seamless that the data is flowing so smoothly is to ensure that you're working with consultants.

[00:33:52] If you're working with consultants that really are bona fide and they've done it before, they've got a track record and you can trace them. You know who they are. You know, do your due diligence is number one for me because I've heard of some pretty horror stories. I heard of one company that lost 1.5 million to an organization that was an EOR in Zambia. And literally the guy received it and off into the sunset he went because he just wasn't a bona fide organization.

[00:34:22] It's nuts. Yeah. Holy cow. Be very, very careful people. Do your homework. Yeah. I mean, speaking of that, what are some of the red flags that companies could look out for for international payment process if they're not ready to scale? I would say when you see companies with websites that says they can do everything, be a bit wary of that because, you know, trust me, I know how hard it is to set up entities around the world.

[00:34:52] And the time consuming and then actually integrating that into a platform when they say, yeah, they can do coverage. So the chances are, for example, using, I don't have to, I'm not having a go at EORs, but I'm saying using them as an example. That industry is an example. Check out who their ICPs they're using are, you know, are they bona fide, are they good, and actually be quite hard with them about that. Okay. Ask about pre-funding. Pre-funding shouldn't happen. Shouldn't have to pre-fund anything. You know, that can be a red flag.

[00:35:19] To me, I know a lot of companies historically have asked for pre-funding and they are bona fide companies. There is a reason why they've done that. And I think there's a reason why they continue to do that. Obviously, it's quite nice having big lumps of money on your account on Treasury. But I think be very wary of that. Anyone that wants the usual paying up front before any service is being delivered, all that type of thing. I think also when it comes to technology as well. Yeah.

[00:35:45] You really want to work with someone whose tech has been tested and tested to the limit that they can then prove to you that that tech is solid. It will be, the uptime is good. It's 99.9% uptime. It's basically the support they're going to give you if things go wrong is there. And I think that's across the board as well in terms of the financial world as well. There is nothing worse coming back to payroll.

[00:36:11] There's nothing worse than a person ringing up at 5 o'clock on a Friday afternoon has not been paid and they can't get hold of anyone. So, again, really drill into what is the support outside of hours. What does that support look like? Because your people need to know, the employees need to know what is going on and when they're going to get paid. And that kind of all flows with the tech you're using, who you partner with, who your financial partners are, etc., etc.

[00:36:36] And really, I suppose, the summary is it comes back down to the testing place and make sure you give yourself enough time when you're rolling out your countries that you have calendar time to do this, to get this all tested. And as I said, get that closer bridge, that closer alliance between payroll, HR and finance. That's fascinating. Wow. Wow.

[00:37:00] I feel like we could talk to you forever, Andy, because you're dropping so many different nuggets for us. And I'm sure the listeners are going to love this episode. So, before we conclude and get to our this or that segment, what is one thing that you would like for the payroll professional or the payment professional to understand about global payments?

[00:37:26] If you're looking to explore fresh perspectives, dive into compensation tech, or just enjoy a lively conversation and debates about the evolving world of total rewards, you're in the right place. Welcome to Totally Rewarding Chats, where we discuss the future of compensation, benefits, talent, and all things HR tech. I'm Sean Luchins, VP of Product Strategy at salary.com. Bring years of product and development perspective.

[00:37:50] Joining me is the bowtie-wearing, comp tech-loving, experienced guru, Paul Ryman, founder and managing partner of Novo Insights. Together, we'll be jamming with guests and sharing candid, unfiltered conversations about total rewards strategy, compensation technology, talent trends, and anything else we find interesting in the world of HR. I think the key thing is that it's not a magical, there's no silver bullet when it comes to successfully making payments.

[00:38:19] As much as the tech is there and the tech is growing and the ease of moving money around the world is getting simpler, but there is still no silver bullet to making sure that everything works just because you think now there's high tech. You really need to put the time in, you really need to work closely with your bank, your payment provider, you need to put the time in with them, with your payroll provider, etc.

[00:38:46] As a unit, you need to be very, very aligned in what's the goal and what to do. And I think the other thing is that not all tech is available around the world. So you've got to remember there's different maturity rates in different parts of the world and therefore not one half size fits all. Yeah, I'm afraid. And very often you have to step out of your tech zone and sometimes go back to your file upload or back inputting into a bank platform.

[00:39:15] So that's the stage we're at still. Until every country in the world catches up and has the same tech and the same compliance, the same security, you're still going to have to do probably a multitude of different processes to get your people paid. So just be wary of that, that it's not a literally silver bullet. Press that button. I can relax now. Put my slippers on and go make a cup of coffee. Love that. Love that. All right.

[00:39:43] So, Andy, this has been great with all of our guests that we have on. We'd like to have a fun segment with them before we close it out. It's called This or That. So we have six questions for you. You can choose either none of the above or both, whatever. So I'm going to start it off and then Brian's going to finish it. All right. So would you prefer a great hike or a great swim? Oh, that's a really good one because I love swimming. Oh, okay.

[00:40:15] But I do like hiking as well. I'm going to go for a great swim. All right. Great. Yeah. Great. Great. All right. So do you prefer football or American football? Right. Now. We love asking this one. Well, actually, I'm not a massive fan of football or soccer, as you call it in the States. I'll be honest. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:40:44] I am a fan of the, I lived in the States when I was a kid. So I really like American football. But if I'm being my honest truth would be, I'd prefer to look into, I'd watch rugby. That's my sport of choice. There you go. So it's a bit of the boat, I suppose you could say. It says in the middle. It's the middle one. All right. Before I pass the baton to Brian, do you prefer Excel or Google Sheets? Oh, wow.

[00:41:14] Do you know what? I was, I've grown up with Excel Sheets. Okay. And then, and then over the last, I'd say eight years, I've been forced into Google Worksheets. Okay. And, and, and as my colleagues will know, there's been a lot of swearing from me in terms of the Google Worksheets. However, however, I've now got over the pain barrier. And actually, I think it's really quite good. I actually think it's really well good.

[00:41:41] So what I would say is I don't think, I think there are features that are better in both. I think the ability to work, collaborate your work in Sheets is, is better than, than Excel. Let's put it that way. So I'd also probably find out how to go back to Excel because I've now become accustomed to Google. So that's probably a really bad answer. Yeah. No, no, no. You answered it. Yeah. It's a sit on the fence answer. That's, but that's what it is. That's why we ask it, right? Because it just strikes so much conversation about it. And it's, and it's so inherent in our profession.

[00:42:11] We use it every day and you can kind of tell generations on what they prefer to use. Like, oh, I kind of know when you were born because you prefer this, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, all right. Here's another one done. Text or email? Email. I would say email from a work, from a professional perspective. I agree.

[00:42:39] However, however, however, there is a proviso and it's not text so much that I do use text for work sometimes, but WhatsApp is just blowing it away now. Yeah. The WhatsApp groups. Yeah. It's just such a lovely way to keep in touch with your clients and partners in a bit of a less, a bit of a less, well, it's an informal, more informal way of doing it. Informal, yeah. How's that going? Yeah. You know, so, so again, I'm sitting on the fence and haven't really answered your question properly. No, no, no. That's it.

[00:43:07] Email for work, text occasionally, but WhatsApp messages has probably really driven forward in the last few years. Yep. There's no, there's no right or wrong answer here. Exactly. Yep. Here's another one. Here's a good one. Good pizza or a good burger? Oh, blimey. These are tricky. Wow. I would say it's going to be a burger. Oh. I hate that because I love, because I love pizza.

[00:43:36] I absolutely love pizza, but you can't beat a good burger. All right. Okay. Last one. A tropical oasis or a mountain resort? Tropical oasis, definitely. All right. Okay. All right. I can't ski. I can't ski. Okay. There you go. No, absolutely. I think that was the easiest one. Yeah, for real. The most confident one. Yeah, absolutely. Andy, thank you so much.

[00:44:03] It's been a great conversation, you know, because payroll is not just about calculating the check. It's about delivering trust. And I think that's, those are the key thing that you really covered because we hear the same things about payroll. It's always accuracy, right? You said something that I noted that I really like. You're not paid until you are paid, right? So it's, that is this, that's the number one thing.

[00:44:26] Um, but when companies operate globally, that trust depends on payments, timing, compliance, currency, banking data, and the right partners. And you really hit all those points. And I thank you for that. And, you know, before we wrap it up, where can people connect with you and learn more about eBerry, eBerryi and what they're don't. Well, Jets, it's been lovely. And thank you for the opportunity to speak with you. I really, I really do hope it's been something, yeah.

[00:44:57] Beneficial. Look, for sure. Please look, look me up on LinkedIn. Andy Valentine. Uh, love to, I love to connect with people. I love meeting new people. Had a fantastic time of week doing that last week in Peral Congress in Nashville. Uh, absolutely love if you've got any challenges. I may not have all the answers, but I've been in the sector long enough to know people that do have the answers. So please feel free to, to, to connect with me on LinkedIn. Then we can go from there. Uh, that would be fantastic. Welcome. Absolutely.

[00:45:25] To, to, to meet and connect with new people. Thank you, sir. Walt's going to close it out for us on the quote of the day. And all right. Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work. Aristotle. Love that. Love that. Yep. Thank you folks for joining. Thank you, Andy. Please like and subscribe and share. And until the next time, folks, we love you. Thank you. Cheers, bro. Cheers, Will. Bye-bye.