The Power of Positivity: Encouragement in Business with Keenan Hart

[00:00:00] I realized that there was a huge shortage of mental and behavioral health providers here in the state of Nevada.

[00:00:06] And so I started trying to figure out how we could use that video connectivity to be able to increase access to mental health services.

[00:00:15] Welcome back, folks. It's about payroll. We have another guest for us this week.

[00:00:21] My man, Keenan Hart, not Kevin Hart. Don't get crazy. My man, Keenan Hart.

[00:00:27] But before we get into that, how you doing, Walt? What's good, man?

[00:00:31] Man, it's another day. This year is almost done. It's almost a holiday season.

[00:00:36] He said this year is almost done.

[00:00:38] It is. We're going to look up and it'll be 2025, man.

[00:00:41] No, no doubt. It's definitely... Oh, God. Last episode, he's like, yo, it's going by so fast.

[00:00:48] Clearly the year is definitely... You feel it.

[00:00:50] It's fast. Yeah, yeah, Brian. How about you, man?

[00:00:55] I'm good, man. I'm good. I'm good. Oh, yeah, man.

[00:00:59] Oh, good. That was funny. You definitely have me laughing for that.

[00:01:04] So let's... Yeah, let's get into the pay news, man.

[00:01:08] So the first thing I wanted to shout out was the fact that there's talks of the interest rate going down, even though it will be like a quarter of a percentage or something like that.

[00:01:19] It's still going down with help. Maybe it gives all of us some relief in some aspects. So that's a good thing. I found an article by the zebra.com.

[00:01:29] It was talking about mental health statistics, right? And as of July 2024, really recent and stuff like that. So just some very interesting stuff on there that I think...

[00:01:42] So look, it says almost half of Americans experience an episode of mental illness in their lives.

[00:01:51] So that means 50% of us are going to experience that. And estimated 26% of Americans ages 18 or older suffer from diagnosable mental disorder.

[00:02:02] So that's one in four, right? One in four Americans, right? And so it says women experience depression at a rate roughly twice the rate of men.

[00:02:12] So for whatever reason, women are feeling more pressure, feeling more depression and stuff like that.

[00:02:18] It talks about a whole bunch of different things in here. Yeah.

[00:02:21] So it says mental illnesses can start showing symptoms. People can start showing symptoms at the, by the age of 14.

[00:02:27] So it's happened even earlier in our kids' lives and our families' lives and stuff like that.

[00:02:34] So, you know, these things happen, man. It's a serious thing.

[00:02:38] Yep. That's a good one. I like it. Yeah. Yeah. It's no joke, man.

[00:02:43] Mine is... I found an article from Forbes. It was like, five ways to boost employee happiness.

[00:02:52] Right. And you guys could check it out and look it up or whatnot. But the call out, what I wanted to...

[00:02:58] It's like, it's almost laughable. Because they said number five was happiness officer.

[00:03:03] Oh, wow. And I was just like...

[00:03:08] I mean...

[00:03:09] I mean, yeah. Like, I immediately think of my HR leadership and...

[00:03:14] Man, she's always having us laughing and like, wasn't able to...

[00:03:18] And she said it. She's like, nah, you can always expect comedy with me and whatnot.

[00:03:21] Like, she's always a comic. So I thought about her immediately.

[00:03:26] And I mean, I don't know. But then I immediately thought about my CEO, right?

[00:03:30] And being like, yeah, let's hire a Chief Happiness.

[00:03:33] He'd be like, what? No, there's no...

[00:03:34] I'm not making money on that.

[00:03:36] Tell them to go to Disney.

[00:03:39] Exactly. Like...

[00:03:40] And the reason why is that they did a survey and employee happiness was down 5% year over year.

[00:03:46] And I mean, we all know why, right?

[00:03:48] Rates of inflation is going up constantly.

[00:03:51] Prices, things cost more.

[00:03:53] And we make less and we get incremental raises.

[00:03:56] Like, it is what it is.

[00:03:58] But like, for...

[00:03:59] My call out to folks is, look, if you want more, you got to do more.

[00:04:04] And doesn't necessarily mean working.

[00:04:07] It could mean just making smarter investments and doing things with your money.

[00:04:11] You know, you don't have to work more, but you can put your...

[00:04:14] Think about 50 cent.

[00:04:15] He's always like, you got to put your dollars to work, right?

[00:04:17] When you're sleeping, you got to be making money.

[00:04:19] And look, I think there's this fascination too.

[00:04:23] This is just my opinion.

[00:04:24] Uh-huh.

[00:04:25] I don't know if there's any stats about it or anything, but I think there's a fascination with wanting to have that quick breakthrough or get that fast money or got that fantasy life.

[00:04:35] Like, hey, I win the Powerball or win the lottery.

[00:04:39] I get that job, that six-figure job right out of school or my certification, whatever it is.

[00:04:45] And like, right, it's the perfect environment.

[00:04:47] It's perfect.

[00:04:47] Like, it's that perfectionism that I think a lot of us are chasing.

[00:04:52] Oh, yeah.

[00:04:53] And that's the dream, right?

[00:04:55] That's the...

[00:04:56] Instant satisfaction.

[00:04:57] Yeah, yes.

[00:04:59] And that's the more of a thing with the age we live in because everything is on your phone.

[00:05:05] I think about the comedian who was like, Amazon, we want it quick.

[00:05:09] Now, give it to me before I even order it.

[00:05:12] Like, you want to think so quickly, you know, that there's no...

[00:05:17] And that's it.

[00:05:18] That's the why.

[00:05:19] Like, but look.

[00:05:21] So people, yeah, people are going to be, you know, it makes sense that folks are upset year over year.

[00:05:26] And Chloe, you got to do more for yourself though.

[00:05:29] You cannot, you know, you cannot depend on your partner or your job for how, like, the things around you cannot be your happiness.

[00:05:37] Like, drive, like, you're not going to be instantly happy because, oh my gosh, my job is great.

[00:05:43] Or, oh my gosh, my partner is great.

[00:05:45] No.

[00:05:45] Like, you have to create your own happiness.

[00:05:47] And I understand it more now as I'm older, but because I've been reading this stuff for years.

[00:05:52] But anywho, man, before we get into Keenan, man, let's pay the bills.

[00:05:57] Yes.

[00:05:58] And shout out to Time Track Go.

[00:06:01] Time Track Go has introduced an innovative new feature designed to simplify time tracking for both exempt and non-exempt employees.

[00:06:09] This feature aligns with the recent changes in the Fair Labor Standards Act for salaried employees.

[00:06:16] By automatically calculating standard 40-hour work weeks and accurately determining overtime when necessary, Time Track Go ensures precise employee time while maintaining accurate PTO balances.

[00:06:30] Additionally, the system can identify instances where non-exempt employees may not have reached the 40-hour threshold.

[00:06:38] To learn more, please contact Time Track Go at 888-321-9922 or visit www.timetrackgo.com.

[00:06:50] That is T-I-M-E-T-R-A-K go.com.

[00:06:56] Let's go.

[00:06:57] Let's go.

[00:06:58] Let's go.

[00:07:21] Let's go.

[00:07:23] a thriving tech company powered by the simplicity of SMS.

[00:07:30] From generating over $6 million in revenue to having over $8 million SMS conversations,

[00:07:36] Keenan's journey is a testament to the power of keeping communication simple.

[00:07:42] We explore how his company, through services like Francis Connect and AI-driven Francis AI,

[00:07:50] continues to revolutionize the way business engage with their customers.

[00:07:55] Join us as Keenan shares his experience, his lessons learned,

[00:07:59] and the hustle behind building a company that's making a real impact in the world.

[00:08:04] Let's get started and welcome my man, Keenan Hart.

[00:08:08] I really appreciate you having me here, man. This is going to be a blast.

[00:08:11] Heck yeah, man.

[00:08:12] You haven't met my partner in crime, Walter, Walter Keenan.

[00:08:17] Keenan had me on his show and I was probably happy and honored to be a guest and whatnot.

[00:08:22] So yeah, man, we were looking forward to having you on, bro.

[00:08:26] Walter, I feel like I've met you before, man. I've heard so many great things about you.

[00:08:29] I've heard the origin story of what you guys have been doing, man.

[00:08:32] It's so good to be in the same virtual room as you, man.

[00:08:35] Likewise, man. Like Brian said, he had a great time on your show.

[00:08:39] He raved about it. It was excited to get you on the show.

[00:08:42] So I'm excited. Pleasure meeting you, Keenan, and I'm excited to hear your story.

[00:08:47] Well, I'm an open book, man. I'm really excited to be able to dive in with whatever you guys want to chat about today.

[00:08:52] So let's get after it.

[00:08:53] Yeah, let's get into it, man.

[00:08:55] I want to start off by kind of exploring just a little bit of,

[00:09:00] because I know we have a framework and I definitely want to follow that,

[00:09:02] but tell us a little bit about you and what Francis is and then we can dig in.

[00:09:12] Well, I think it's really important to kind of start where it all started for me.

[00:09:16] One of the things that I've recognized as I've gotten a little bit older is that I've been able to take advantage of things that the men in my family lineage before me never even could imagine was possible.

[00:09:28] Now, my first name is Franklin.

[00:09:30] I go by Keenan, my middle name.

[00:09:31] I've been named after my great-grandfather, Franklin, who was a sharecropper from Arkansas.

[00:09:36] Now, one of the things that I wish I would have been able to explore more of was the sacrifices that he went through just to put his family in a position to live a healthy and safe life.

[00:09:47] Fast forward to my grandfather, a guy named Harsley, was put on a train at the age of seven years old with his three younger siblings in Arkansas and said,

[00:09:57] go meet your uncle in Washington state.

[00:10:00] Here's the equivalent to a hundred bucks, gave it to my great aunt.

[00:10:04] She took 50 of that 100, put the kids on a train and said, follow the route all the way through California up to Washington state.

[00:10:11] Ran out of money halfway there, had to beg, borrow and steal to be able to make it all the way to Washington state at the age of seven.

[00:10:19] Showed up in Washington after going through that long journey across the country and had to find his uncle.

[00:10:25] Ended up settling in an agricultural town called Yakima, Washington, where my father was born.

[00:10:33] My mother was also born.

[00:10:34] My father was an entrepreneur who started up a whole bunch of different businesses, started in the banking space, and really instilled an entrepreneurial spirit in me.

[00:10:43] Now, when I was graduating from college, I was looking around, I was working a dead end job in the back of a warehouse, moving around furniture, office furniture, cubicles, chairs, desks, big conference rooms.

[00:10:58] And I looked around one day as I was getting my check and a guy came up to me named Dion and said, hey man, if you just hold on for another year, you're going to be eligible to get a raise and you'll start making good money like the rest of us.

[00:11:09] And in that moment, I realized that I was going to have to figure out a different path in life because the trajectory that I was on was going to mean I was going to end up in the back of a warehouse at the age of 40, just like my man Dion here, talking to some other young kid who's just coming in for a summer job or an internship.

[00:11:27] I went home that day, I engaged my dad, I said, hey man, I want to be an entrepreneur just like you.

[00:11:32] And he said, what do you want to do?

[00:11:33] And so we sat down across from a table from each other, literally one-on-one, and we started figuring out what type of business do you want to build?

[00:11:40] And so in 2014, it's right around when this started, I had discovered just by chance a bill that was passed in the state of Nevada that said you could have a virtual interaction with your doctor and that doctor could be paid as if that happened in person.

[00:11:56] And so me and my pop started figuring out how do we make this bill into something real?

[00:12:00] Went out and we found some interesting technology that basically was called a smart presence device that a doctor could walk around or control a movable computer through an environment like a hospital.

[00:12:13] And I went out for years trying to figure out how I was going to sell this technology to have a doctor show up on a screen, have them talk to a patient and have it reimbursed as if it happened in person.

[00:12:24] For years, everybody told me no.

[00:12:26] So in 2017, I was having a by chance conversation with a therapist that my family was a friend of and somebody walked through the front door at his office.

[00:12:38] And she said, I'm so sorry, but it took me five hours to get here today instead of my normal three and a half.

[00:12:43] And naturally, I looked at her and said, what took so long?

[00:12:45] She said, well, I had to drive here like I do every other Tuesday for my appointment.

[00:12:50] But there was a truck rolled over on the freeway.

[00:12:53] And this is the only way that I can get access to my medication because Dr. AJ, the therapist, is the only professional who I have access to.

[00:13:02] Wow.

[00:13:02] And in that moment, I realized that there was a huge shortage of mental and behavioral health providers here in the state of Nevada.

[00:13:10] And so I started trying to figure out how we could use that video connectivity to be able to increase access to mental health services.

[00:13:17] And so that was how I started my first company back in the day, which was trying to increase access to mental health services via video chat and other things like text messages.

[00:13:27] And fast forward to the pandemic, our business was doing a lot better.

[00:13:31] And I still went out to my partners and asked the question, what are you really struggling with?

[00:13:36] And they said, although people have access to virtual assessments and virtual connectivity to their therapist, their counselor, we still have a lot of our staff members who are struggling in everyday scenarios.

[00:13:47] And so I started thinking, what can I create that would give a boost of encouragement, support, or just a reminder of what a great job somebody's doing in the real world if they don't want to talk to a therapist or a counselor?

[00:14:01] So I started doing some research and I went out and I found this amazing program called Caring Contacts at the University of Washington.

[00:14:09] In 2018, the University of Washington started using text messages as a way to send a reminder of encouragement or positivity or just something that was a reminder of a great job that you were doing.

[00:14:21] But they were using it for suicide prevention.

[00:14:23] And let me back up a little bit.

[00:14:25] In World War II, there was a guy named Jerome Motto, who was a soldier deployed overseas like thousands of other Americans.

[00:14:33] And something unique about Jerome is he had an anonymous pen pal who wrote him letters of encouragement.

[00:14:38] Hey, Jerome, we just want you to let you know somebody's thinking about you.

[00:14:41] Goes to a new station, new letters are being handed out.

[00:14:44] Hey, Jerome, we hope you come back home safe.

[00:14:46] This went on.

[00:14:48] He came back from war and was so inspired by those little handwritten letters of encouragement that he got from somebody he didn't even know that he went into the field of psychiatry.

[00:14:57] What he did is he helped his nurses.

[00:15:00] When patients were discharged from his inpatient hospital dealing with feelings of suicide ideation, he would have them write letters of encouragement and support and positivity to them.

[00:15:11] Years later, they went back and found that not a single person died by suicide who received those little handwritten letters from those nurses.

[00:15:19] Flash forward to 2018, University of Washington said, the modern day handwritten letter is a text message.

[00:15:25] Yep.

[00:15:25] Now, we're not just when I started thinking about how I was going to support my partners, it wasn't just suicide ideation.

[00:15:31] It wasn't just depressive episodes, but it was feelings of stress, feelings of inferiority, feelings of anxiety.

[00:15:39] And the thing that I recognize is that nobody that I am around on a daily basis often has somebody who's just going to tap them on the shoulder and say, hey, man, you're doing a great job.

[00:15:50] Keep going.

[00:15:51] Remember, you're a human being, not a human doing.

[00:15:54] How can you find time today to simply just be?

[00:15:57] And those are the type of reminders that turned into Francis.

[00:16:01] And we get paid to basically spread positivity and encouragement in the form of text messages to as many people as we possibly can.

[00:16:08] And that's been kind of my entrepreneurial journey.

[00:16:11] To wrap it back to my great grandfather, one thing I recognize is that the men in my lineage that came before me overcame such hardship when it came to sacrificing their time and their work and the effort that they put in every day.

[00:16:26] But one of the last obstacles that kept us from truly being free was the ability to have conversations about our mental health and was to take off those invisible chains and invisible shackles about the things and limiting beliefs that we believed in.

[00:16:39] And so one of my missions is to spread more awareness around mental health, how we can use things like text messages to give a reminder of encouragement that more people need in the world today.

[00:16:49] Man, that is powerful.

[00:16:52] Powerful, Kenan.

[00:16:53] Thank you for sharing that with us, your story, your lineage, and the fact that you're doing this to help people.

[00:16:59] Not a lot of people are doing that, right?

[00:17:01] You're doing something that you love to do, which is helping people.

[00:17:04] And it's also something that you're able to make a living off of.

[00:17:08] So I just want to just extend my thanks and appreciation for you doing that because a lot more people could be doing that.

[00:17:13] So I'm glad that you're pioneering that word.

[00:17:17] Well, it really means a lot, man.

[00:17:18] I really appreciate the encouragement.

[00:17:19] I think we could do a lot better by, as men, honestly, being willing to encourage each other a little bit more.

[00:17:28] It's not exactly part of the male persona.

[00:17:31] I grew up an athlete, played football, basketball, baseball.

[00:17:34] I was around some of the most influential men in my life.

[00:17:36] And they never really talked about the feelings of inadequacy that we all feel, the pressure, the stress.

[00:17:42] And we all think that we are stronger alone rather than stronger together.

[00:17:46] So that's why I love being able to have podcasts and hop on a conversation like this with you guys.

[00:17:50] Because when we share our own story, it's very easy for other people to find themselves inside of it.

[00:17:57] For sure, man.

[00:17:58] I mean, that's one of the things that's really special about, I think, me and Walt.

[00:18:01] Because we're always selling iron sharpens iron.

[00:18:05] Iron sharpens iron.

[00:18:06] We're always helping each other out through difficult days, things like that.

[00:18:11] Sending each other a note like, yo, hang in there, blah, blah, blah.

[00:18:14] And it makes a difference.

[00:18:16] And Kenan, would you mind if I was blessed with a subscription from Francis, would you mind if I shared my post, like my text message from today?

[00:18:26] Of course, brother.

[00:18:27] This is an example of Francis.

[00:18:29] And so Kenan, I was on Kenan's show.

[00:18:32] And I mean, yeah, on his podcast.

[00:18:34] And through our conversation, he was moved to bless me and my daughter with a subscription to Francis.

[00:18:41] And I got to tell you, like, I'll reach out.

[00:18:44] I'll ask my daughter every now and then, hey, you still get the subscription?

[00:18:46] She's like, yeah.

[00:18:47] She's like, I'm not going to lie.

[00:18:49] It really hits.

[00:18:51] It really, like, makes my day some days.

[00:18:53] And it's on time.

[00:18:54] So today's is, for me anyway, if you're constantly thinking about what you don't have, you'll see all that is lacking.

[00:19:02] If you're thinking about all that you are grateful for, you will see the abundance and gifts.

[00:19:09] What are you grateful for today?

[00:19:12] So it's that and I read it every day and I'd be like, oh, man, wow.

[00:19:16] Like it's so on time.

[00:19:18] It's like I don't know if you grew up in the church, but like I've had my time of going to church and things like that.

[00:19:24] And like when you're actually trying to read and read the Bible, read like the word you find, like randomly find the word that's on time.

[00:19:32] And you'd be like, wow, that message was on time for me today.

[00:19:34] And that's how I feel like it's like it's like church for me through those text messages.

[00:19:38] And it's super helpful, man.

[00:19:39] And I appreciate that.

[00:19:41] And I still still still looking to help you expand on that.

[00:19:45] And like when you hit me up for the show, I was like, yeah, man, like, oh, I was so happy to have you on.

[00:19:50] But so now let's build on that.

[00:19:52] Right. So you talked a lot about the entrepreneurial piece.

[00:19:56] And now tell us a little bit about the evolving landscape of leadership, the fast pace, the high growth settings like startups and enterprises usually have.

[00:20:06] Right. What's your experience building the teams, leading the teams?

[00:20:10] How have you done that?

[00:20:12] What's that experience been like for you?

[00:20:14] Building a tech company, really.

[00:20:16] Right.

[00:20:17] I mean, the experience has been it's been an ever evolving process.

[00:20:21] Because the one thing that I have found out is that entrepreneurship often acts as a mirror.

[00:20:28] Right.

[00:20:28] When we find we can look ourselves honestly in the face, we see some of the things that we're inadequate at.

[00:20:33] And one of the biggest skill sets that you have to be able to build today is leadership.

[00:20:39] Now, one of the core values that I was grown up on or I was brought up on was my mom would always say, be a leader, not a follower.

[00:20:47] And so one of the things that I think we have a unique opportunity to do is start instilling better values in our lives that act as a North Star that can lead us towards the things that we're trying to accomplish.

[00:20:57] And when I think about building a team, we have values like ultimate accountability.

[00:21:03] Now, ultimate accountability plays into the role of saying you're not just accountable for the group here, but furthermore, you're accountable for yourself.

[00:21:11] And when you're ultimately accountable for yourself, everybody else around you seems to be taken care of.

[00:21:17] I know.

[00:21:17] Walter, do you have kids?

[00:21:19] Oh, yeah.

[00:21:20] Okay.

[00:21:21] So I know that our man here has kids and I know that when he is accountable for himself, that he is accountable for everybody else around him.

[00:21:29] And it's easy to recognize we're not living up to be 100% of our best self because everybody else around you kind of feels it.

[00:21:36] Right.

[00:21:36] And one of the things that I constantly focus on is how can we be ultimately accountable towards what we know is right.

[00:21:42] And so when I'm trying to think about building a team, I think there's a unique opportunity.

[00:21:46] In 2022, the Surgeon General came on to a national television broadcast and said the biggest threat to the American society today is not another viral outbreak in a pandemic, but rather an epidemic of isolation and loneliness.

[00:22:04] And over the years, we've seen a lot of people who have started to tell this story, if you will, about how work is bad.

[00:22:12] But I have a theory because I grew up in Detroit.

[00:22:16] And when I grew up in Detroit, I grew up in a community of people who looked forward to working for an organization like Ford or General Motors.

[00:22:25] The culture of our community was if you can graduate from high school and if you're lucky enough to get a job, you can go work for one of those factories, one of those organizations.

[00:22:34] You'll make $144 an hour.

[00:22:37] You'll have amazing benefits and a pension that you'll be able to take care of your family for the rest of time.

[00:22:42] Now, me being born in 1990, my first experience really that I can remember was 9-11 and then the Great Depression in 2008 when everybody left our communities.

[00:22:54] So there's a lot of psychologically unsafe experiences that we've had that are tied to work.

[00:23:00] And so when I look around today, I continue to see the things in the media like Amazon 12,000 jobs cut, Google 10,000.

[00:23:09] And we're constantly exposed to all of these elements of psychologically unsafe experiences.

[00:23:14] I think because we are so isolated in our personal, in our own individual social lives, that there is a unique opportunity for businesses to play as that safe place, as that culture, as that family, if you will, that people want to be a part of for that connection, that sense of safety, wanting to be protected.

[00:23:37] And so when I think about building a business, I'm not trying to just make money, but I'm trying to create a culture that people want to be a part of because they know that they are seen, they are heard, they are validated, and more importantly, they are valued for the work that we are doing together.

[00:23:54] And when you think about getting people to buy into something and give their time, their life, their waking hours, you have to be able to paint a vision so big that other people can find themselves inside that vision.

[00:24:06] And so when I think about being a leader, it's not just doing right by yourself, but it's doing right by the people who you lead.

[00:24:14] When I think about the Bible as a great example, man, talking about being a shepherd, protecting your flock, somebody has to have the level of accountability and awareness to recognize that everybody's not going to be their best every day.

[00:24:27] But if you can create an environment where people feel safe, that's where I feel like true leadership is today.

[00:24:33] And I think we're yearning for that deep down in our souls more so than any other time in history to be very transparent with you.

[00:24:41] Yeah.

[00:24:41] Wow.

[00:24:42] Yeah.

[00:24:43] No doubt, bro.

[00:24:44] No doubt.

[00:24:45] Yes.

[00:24:45] Yes.

[00:24:45] Very well articulated.

[00:24:47] It resonates with us.

[00:24:48] And I want to ask you about the mindset that goes into this entrepreneurial role and this leadership role that you're talking about and how you can continue to grow in the future.

[00:25:05] Well, I'll be honest with you guys.

[00:25:07] When I came home at the young age of, I think it was six or seven years old, I was leaving second grade and I said to my mom, mom, how much longer do I have to do this whole school thing for?

[00:25:19] And she laughed at me and said, man, you got a long way to go.

[00:25:22] So just stick with it.

[00:25:23] I was never a good student.

[00:25:26] I was never into the education process.

[00:25:28] I hated school.

[00:25:29] It was literally one of my worst enemies.

[00:25:31] It wasn't for me.

[00:25:32] I didn't learn the same way everybody else learned.

[00:25:34] I always struggled.

[00:25:35] I had bad reading comprehension.

[00:25:36] I was never good on tests.

[00:25:38] I was getting C's and D's my entire academic career.

[00:25:41] But I did make the honor roll of my last senior semester in high school.

[00:25:46] And that was a great experience for my family.

[00:25:49] But when I started thinking about the things that I wanted to accomplish in life, I started thinking about the skills that I needed to develop.

[00:25:57] Right.

[00:25:57] Being able to have tenacity to stick things through.

[00:26:01] Consistency.

[00:26:02] Thinking about all these things that were going to help me become a better entrepreneur.

[00:26:06] And I realized that after school was done, that's when the real learning started.

[00:26:11] So I fell in love with personal development.

[00:26:13] Reading books like Atomic Habits by James Clear.

[00:26:17] Learning about how small habits, if you stack them over time, can build into something great.

[00:26:21] And I had a mentor say something to me when I got out of college, really.

[00:26:25] Because I was an athlete my entire life and I always dreamed about going pro in baseball.

[00:26:30] But I went to a school in South Carolina called Coastal Carolina.

[00:26:33] Then Conway, South Carolina, South Carolina, South Carolina, South Carolina, South Carolina, South Carolina, played baseball there.

[00:26:37] Ended up getting hurt, red shirting, and then honestly falling out of love with the game.

[00:26:42] And as I fell out of love with the game in my early college years, I recognized I went through an identity crisis.

[00:26:48] And I had a mentor who said, Kenan, someday you're going to have to decide to go pro in something other than baseball.

[00:26:55] And in that moment, I asked myself the question, what can you become the best that you possibly can?

[00:27:00] And I've heard other people make the analogy of like, I feel so bad for athletes who are in their young 20s.

[00:27:07] Because unless you're LeBron, by the time you get into your early 30s, you're past your prime.

[00:27:12] And you're going to have to go through that same identity crisis to figure out what else you want to be pro at.

[00:27:16] And so I applied my pro competitiveness to becoming the best version of myself, but also the best business person I possibly could.

[00:27:25] Because I realized that my season or my time horizon to go all pro in this was as long as I was alive.

[00:27:34] Charlie Munger, all these other great leaders, you know what I'm saying?

[00:27:38] They're doing it until the end.

[00:27:40] And if I think about giving myself that air cover or that horizon, if you will, to get as many skill sets underneath my belt as possible,

[00:27:49] I felt really comfortable about maybe not being the best this year, but being the best in 10, 15, 20 years.

[00:27:57] And so my mindset really is kind of about extending my time horizon.

[00:28:01] Because I feel like when you want to become the best, the only injustice that you can do to yourself is by trying to get it done quickly.

[00:28:09] And I realized that the best things in life take time.

[00:28:12] Maybe that's a belief that I have, but I also recognize that when I give myself more time and I focus on my trajectory of where I'm going,

[00:28:20] then I can enjoy the journey a lot more than just the mountaintops that I hit along the way, if that makes sense.

[00:28:27] Yeah.

[00:28:28] Yeah.

[00:28:29] Absolutely.

[00:28:30] Wow, bro.

[00:28:32] Good.

[00:28:32] Good.

[00:28:33] It's not like you said this before.

[00:28:37] That's what's up, man.

[00:28:38] So, gosh.

[00:28:38] So, okay.

[00:28:39] So, let me riff on that a little bit.

[00:28:42] So, there's a guy.

[00:28:43] I listened to a podcast the other day.

[00:28:45] There's a dude out there.

[00:28:46] His name is Dan Bolzerian.

[00:28:48] Not sure if you guys have heard of him.

[00:28:50] But over the last couple years, this guy became very famous on Instagram.

[00:28:55] Now, I don't want to speak negatively about anybody, but he pursued things that were all about pleasure, as an example.

[00:29:01] This guy had the biggest house.

[00:29:03] He had all the cars.

[00:29:05] He had 10, 15 girlfriends at a time.

[00:29:08] And that's why he became famous.

[00:29:09] And I was listening to a podcast about him the other day where he said, one of the things that I realized is just like any other addiction that we have, when we start becoming addicted to pleasure and fulfilling those instant gratification needs, at first, you need something that makes you feel great.

[00:29:28] And then that same amount of that same thing makes you feel a little bit less.

[00:29:31] And then eventually, you feel terrible unless you have your thing.

[00:29:35] But eventually, it all becomes numb.

[00:29:36] And he said, one of the things I wish I would have done instead of racing to the mountaintops of my life and saying, I need the jet.

[00:29:43] I need the $20 million house.

[00:29:45] I need the 16 girlfriends.

[00:29:47] I need all this.

[00:29:48] Is I wish I would have paid more attention to my trajectory rather than where I was going.

[00:29:52] And the trajectory of saying, here I am today.

[00:29:56] And in 10 days or 20 years, I'm going to be there.

[00:30:00] And you're still on that climb.

[00:30:01] That is way more fulfilling than any other accomplishment is.

[00:30:06] Right.

[00:30:07] Getting things or having things is not the thing that's most fulfilling.

[00:30:11] It's the process of getting them.

[00:30:12] And I continue to hear these guys who are super successful in the eyes of society talk about money never made me happy.

[00:30:21] The accomplishments never made me happy.

[00:30:23] The cars never made me happy.

[00:30:24] But it was the pursuit of them.

[00:30:26] It's the journey.

[00:30:27] And so I'm trying to re-fortify my mindset to really lean into that process of appreciating this experience of sitting down with you guys on this Monday.

[00:30:36] Right.

[00:30:37] Because these are the memories that will matter, not the accomplishments or the views at the end of the day.

[00:30:41] It's the time that we spend together.

[00:30:42] No doubt.

[00:30:44] No doubt.

[00:30:45] And it's so amazing, right?

[00:30:48] Because we put our notes together separately.

[00:30:52] We'll pick something out.

[00:30:53] We prepare.

[00:30:54] And then we get our little notes.

[00:30:56] So you'll see when you hear the episode, we talk about right before you got on, we were talking about instant gratification and how folks just like, it's all about that instant gratification now.

[00:31:06] And folks don't enjoy the journey, don't even realize they just need it now, now, now.

[00:31:11] So now, look, it sounds like, oh, wow, you've been very successful.

[00:31:15] But what about you inevitably had to have setbacks, quote unquote failures?

[00:31:21] How have you dealt with that, those along the journey?

[00:31:27] The process of failing is learning your lessons.

[00:31:32] I had a mentor one time tell me that failure is a prerequisite to success.

[00:31:36] Absolutely.

[00:31:37] When I was growing up and the reason why I hated school so much is because we've demonized failure.

[00:31:45] You know what I mean?

[00:31:46] You were made fun of.

[00:31:47] Your teachers looked down on you.

[00:31:48] Your parents were like, what happened here?

[00:31:50] You didn't learn anything.

[00:31:51] You're not doing a good job.

[00:31:52] That failure has always been demonized.

[00:31:54] But as I got older, I recognized that I am separate from the results of what happens.

[00:31:59] And once again, the only objective is to keep on going.

[00:32:02] I mean, you hear amazing leaders and amazing people who are accomplishing amazing things always talk about the process was, I failed on this.

[00:32:11] So when I came across it a second time, I didn't make that same mistake.

[00:32:15] And I feel like we have a terrible relationship with failure instead of recognizing that it's a prerequisite to being successful.

[00:32:23] The more you fail and if you don't die in this, you know, have you heard the saying like, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger?

[00:32:29] Yeah.

[00:32:29] Yeah.

[00:32:30] It's exactly that.

[00:32:32] And I don't know why we have such a tough time really conceptualizing that process.

[00:32:37] I'm not sure if it's the story that we tell ourselves, it's the pressure that we have from people around us, or if it's that internal voice that we believe is us that kind of tells us we're not good enough or we're not adequate or somebody's going to make fun of us or what do they think?

[00:32:51] Those things aren't really even true.

[00:32:53] So people who are willing to fail forward and have that good relationship with failure, that makes the biggest difference.

[00:32:58] Now, have I lost clients?

[00:32:59] Of course I have.

[00:33:00] Have I thought the world was ending?

[00:33:02] Of course I have.

[00:33:03] But my father always had a saying when I was growing up.

[00:33:05] He said, this too shall pass.

[00:33:07] Oh, wow.

[00:33:07] My wife says that.

[00:33:08] That's so funny.

[00:33:10] I mean, it's real though.

[00:33:11] You know what I mean?

[00:33:12] It's like, yes, there's terrible experiences.

[00:33:14] Everything doesn't go great, but it's only in this moment where it doesn't feel good.

[00:33:20] And if you wake up tomorrow and heaven forbid, you still have the ability to show up and keep doing what you're doing and the world's not ending, then you're going to be okay.

[00:33:28] But there's a lot of people who have had their world end that next day.

[00:33:32] And guess what?

[00:33:33] They're still standing.

[00:33:34] They still make comebacks.

[00:33:36] They still do the stuff that's necessary to succeed.

[00:33:38] And I just try and really represent, or I'm trying to represent a mindset of if you fail, that's okay.

[00:33:46] But what lesson are we learning here?

[00:33:47] Yeah.

[00:33:48] Absolutely.

[00:33:49] Absolutely.

[00:33:49] Me and Walt subscribed to Ray Dalio's, some of his teachings on radical honesty.

[00:33:55] And he wrote a book called Principles.

[00:33:57] And in the book, he was talking about it as he was building Bridgewater.

[00:34:01] Like, he reprimanded people for not sharing the failures, for not sharing those challenges, because that's what you learn from.

[00:34:11] Right?

[00:34:11] He was fanatical about it because that's what you learn from.

[00:34:14] Um, so, and I, and I'm, and I also, same thing.

[00:34:18] Like I tell my kids, look, you, when you fall seven times, you got to get up eight times.

[00:34:22] You got to keep moving.

[00:34:24] You got to keep pushing.

[00:34:25] Some of the, like the most difficult challenges in my life.

[00:34:30] I know there's a lesson to be learned.

[00:34:32] I know there's something coming out.

[00:34:34] I know it's sharpening my, my skillset.

[00:34:37] And I, as, as frustrating as it could be in the moment, I just like, there's something coming out of this.

[00:34:44] That's going to be, that's going to be worth it for.

[00:34:47] He's going to make, I'm going to be better for it.

[00:34:49] So I, I definitely maturity wisdom.

[00:34:51] Like while I've been saying older, but Walt's like wisdom.

[00:34:56] I mean, doesn't he in principles have a concept called like healthy, uh, conflict.

[00:35:01] Yeah.

[00:35:02] Doesn't he talk about that in the book?

[00:35:03] Right.

[00:35:04] I mean, if you think about healthy conflict in your own life, you're going to come across times that are not going to feel good, but they are necessary in friction to be able to come stronger.

[00:35:13] Right.

[00:35:13] It's that resistance that is necessary to be as good as you possibly can.

[00:35:17] And I was actually listening to a podcast the other day with this guy who was the former head of Google X.

[00:35:24] And he was talking about an experience that he had dealing with a really terrible situation.

[00:35:31] His son at the age of 21 named Ali died because of a botched appendectomy surgery.

[00:35:38] And this guy has tens of tens of millions of dollars and his son died from a common procedure.

[00:35:43] Right.

[00:35:44] Right.

[00:35:45] And the one thing that he said was without the terrible experiences in life, you can't have the great experiences either.

[00:35:52] And the one question that he talked about in a huge study that was done with like 6,000 people is they were all asked a simple question.

[00:35:59] They said, what is one horrific experience that you've had in your life?

[00:36:04] The passing of a loved one, like my son Ali or something else that's happened.

[00:36:08] If I gave you the opportunity to go back in time and to eliminate that from your timeline and all of your memories, but you also had everything else that was eliminated that came from that moment.

[00:36:21] A family member coming and giving you, consoling you, your friends leaning in and you having a deeper relationship.

[00:36:28] New opportunities that came on the other side of that tragic event.

[00:36:32] Would you erase it?

[00:36:35] 99.9% of those people said no.

[00:36:40] Wow.

[00:36:40] Because these experiences that we have in life, the hardships and the times where we fail to take it back to where we were talking about, they all create so many opportunities that aren't even perceivable in this moment.

[00:36:51] You know what I mean?

[00:36:52] I'm a big believer in fate, if you will.

[00:36:55] I'm not sure if you guys have ever had the feeling of deja vu.

[00:36:58] I've had moments of deja vu where like something really great happens.

[00:37:01] I'm like, wow.

[00:37:01] Wow.

[00:37:02] And then I naturally go back to the place in my mind of thinking, was all that time stressing?

[00:37:07] Was all that time when I was doubting myself even worth it in the moment?

[00:37:11] Because I'm here right now and I'm having this really weird feeling of euphoria about being here before.

[00:37:18] Am I on a path that's already kind of designed for me?

[00:37:21] It's a really interesting concept to kind of think about in your mind.

[00:37:23] Yeah.

[00:37:25] Yeah.

[00:37:25] And the same here.

[00:37:27] We talk about the fate and all that.

[00:37:28] And like, it's the same.

[00:37:31] And there's something about that energy.

[00:37:33] There's something.

[00:37:34] There's a higher power.

[00:37:35] I don't like my kids talk about religion.

[00:37:37] I'm trying to tell them, look, I can't tell you what the right label is.

[00:37:40] You know what I mean?

[00:37:41] That's for you to decide later.

[00:37:42] I can tell you, I believe that there's a higher power.

[00:37:45] There is some energy that governs.

[00:37:48] Karma is real.

[00:37:49] What you put out is what you get back.

[00:37:51] How you do anything is how you do everything.

[00:37:54] And that is going to come back to you for sure.

[00:37:58] However you want to lay.

[00:38:00] It's a God.

[00:38:01] It's Buddha.

[00:38:02] It's Islam.

[00:38:04] Whatever your beliefs are, there's real energy in all that.

[00:38:08] So we definitely connect with that, man.

[00:38:10] Now, shifting gears a little bit.

[00:38:12] Now, we talk about the good, the bad, the ugly.

[00:38:17] How has your personal experience with mental health challenges, anything while you're running

[00:38:24] your business?

[00:38:25] And have you had any mental wellness issues for yourself or that you can relate to personally

[00:38:33] and that's impacted the business at all?

[00:38:36] Many and often.

[00:38:38] One of the things that people don't see about the entrepreneurial journey is everybody loves

[00:38:45] to share their highlights, their wins, their victories.

[00:38:49] Exactly.

[00:38:49] Right?

[00:38:50] But one of the things that I've recognized and my girlfriend always talks to me about this,

[00:38:54] she says, Keenan, if you're going to be an advocate for mental health, you have to practice

[00:38:57] it yourself.

[00:38:57] I fall trap very transparently as a guy of not often expressing my feelings of inadequacy

[00:39:06] or my needs for validation.

[00:39:08] And this is one of the first times I've really talked about this publicly to be very transparent

[00:39:11] with you guys.

[00:39:12] It's a really tough journey when you are walking a path of trying to consistently inspire others.

[00:39:20] When you're somebody who is on the other side of a brand like Francis that is all about

[00:39:25] spreading positivity, you often have to justify the times of not being okay.

[00:39:30] And I think it's really been difficult for me.

[00:39:32] And it's actually part of my origin story with Francis.

[00:39:35] So back in 2017, we were doing the stuff with telehealth, right?

[00:39:40] And this is three years before the pandemic.

[00:39:43] And so me as a 26, 27 year old kid and going into healthcare systems and trying to convince

[00:39:50] a chief medical officer, a chief nursing officer, a CEO of a hospital system that there's going

[00:39:57] to be a future for this virtual interaction thing in healthcare.

[00:40:01] And for years, everybody told me, no, never going to happen.

[00:40:06] Doesn't make sense.

[00:40:07] Nobody wants to do it.

[00:40:09] Patients will never do it.

[00:40:10] I can never get my doctors to do it.

[00:40:12] X, Y, Z.

[00:40:12] And after a while, you can only have so much belief in an idea when you're trying to convince

[00:40:18] people who are making decisions and they're kind of laughing you out of the room.

[00:40:21] So at the end of 2017, I just turned 27 years old.

[00:40:26] January 1st, I sit down and think about what is my New Year's resolution going to be?

[00:40:32] And I said, Kenan, the only thing that you're going to be able to control, even your business

[00:40:36] wise, is your mindset.

[00:40:38] And so I took it upon myself to say every single day this year, I'm going to hop on Instagram

[00:40:44] and I'm going to put a little story out in the morning that says, hey, today's going to

[00:40:48] be a good day.

[00:40:50] Do what you can do, but just remember you're going to be all right.

[00:40:54] Right?

[00:40:54] Just little innuendos and little messages for myself.

[00:40:57] Something amazing happened 50, 60, 37, 162 days in.

[00:41:01] Then I had friends who had started reaching out to me and saying, hey man, I never told

[00:41:08] you this, not to my face because we're hanging out all the time, but in text messages and DMs,

[00:41:12] I look forward to your message every single day.

[00:41:15] I've been going through some really tough times and I feel like you've been writing these messages

[00:41:20] directly to me.

[00:41:21] And in that moment, I realized, although we may manage this mask of everybody being okay

[00:41:26] and talking about here in Vegas, how we're partying in the clubs and we're having a good

[00:41:29] time with each other, everybody's feeling a little bit disconnected and maybe we need

[00:41:35] a little bit more encouragement.

[00:41:37] And so that really kind of informed Francis years later in me building the SMS stuff because

[00:41:42] I had lived experience in the fact that if you put out messages of positivity and support,

[00:41:46] even if they're for yourself, other people are going to find their story inside those

[00:41:49] messages.

[00:41:51] And so that was my first adventure into saying, I mean, if I can do this for myself and other

[00:41:55] people want this, maybe I can go sell it to people.

[00:41:57] And that turned into a little bit of a business.

[00:41:59] But man, to go back, I mean, everybody deals with these mental health challenges.

[00:42:04] Over the years in healthcare, we talk about a buzzword, which is called whole person health.

[00:42:10] Whole person health is not a recognition of your mental health being separate from your

[00:42:15] physical health and your cardiovascular health being separate from your immune health.

[00:42:19] But you are a whole image of a person and everything is interconnected.

[00:42:23] And so when I think about us thinking about mental health, everybody has mental health.

[00:42:28] Doesn't matter if you're doing great, if you're doing bad, if you come from nothing or if

[00:42:32] you come from everything.

[00:42:33] Everybody has something in between your ears and you have to be able to manage it, take care

[00:42:38] of it, need to it, tend to it.

[00:42:42] And so, yeah, I've been through my tough times.

[00:42:44] I do feel down often because a lot of the times you are crazy until everybody sees you

[00:42:50] winning and everybody believes in the message that you've been trying to say.

[00:42:52] But it's not an easy road.

[00:42:54] And I love having conversations like this because from the outside, everybody thinks

[00:42:59] everything is going great.

[00:43:01] And I know that there are moments that we've all individually battled with.

[00:43:04] But if we can have conversations like this, then it kind of is like, oh, if he's been

[00:43:08] through it, then I guess I've been through it too.

[00:43:09] And I guess it's okay for me to talk about it as well.

[00:43:12] Yeah.

[00:43:13] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:43:14] Like Ray Dalio said in the principles of the radical transparency.

[00:43:18] And I think if more people leaned into that, then we would have more healing and more openness

[00:43:24] about it.

[00:43:25] But so thank you for sharing that with us, first of all, and being comfortable enough to share

[00:43:30] your story.

[00:43:31] What strategies would you give or kind of recommend for us to use with our own mental wellness

[00:43:41] and especially with the demands of leadership and our constant connectivity?

[00:43:45] You got to lean into the people around you, man.

[00:43:50] When you are willing to be radically transparent and vulnerable, which is a scary word for a

[00:43:59] lot of us, I think we need to do a better job of redefining what masculinity looks like.

[00:44:05] I think of a hero as an example.

[00:44:09] It's somebody in the face of danger or the face of uncertainty was willing to charge forward

[00:44:15] and do what was necessary to save the princess or save their friend or make a positive impact.

[00:44:20] We're all fighting these individual scary moments in our lives.

[00:44:24] And if you're willing to be vulnerable enough to reach out and say, hey, I'm going to charge

[00:44:29] straight into this man.

[00:44:31] But Walt, man, I need you to be like my guy.

[00:44:34] You know what I'm saying?

[00:44:35] Like I need you guys to be with me because I don't know if I'm going to be able to do

[00:44:39] this.

[00:44:39] But if I can lean on you, I know I can get through this.

[00:44:41] It's leaning on the people who are around you.

[00:44:44] It's leaning on the people who are willing to raise your hand and lift you up when you

[00:44:48] don't have the ability to keep going forward, which is really powerful.

[00:44:51] And to hit this home, I want to talk about a story that I heard the other day.

[00:44:56] So there's this guy who wrote this book called B1.

[00:44:59] It's how to be a good man in like terrible masculine times.

[00:45:04] And he tells a story about how him and a couple of his buddies hiked to the top of Count Kilimanjaro

[00:45:09] or some other huge mountain.

[00:45:11] And it's him, a whole bunch of other military dudes, and one guy who's a veteran.

[00:45:16] And he doesn't have legs, right?

[00:45:18] So he's got prosthetics.

[00:45:19] And they're all climbing this mountain.

[00:45:21] And they're all asking each other the question, who's going to be the guy who's not going to

[00:45:23] make it to the top?

[00:45:24] And they're all trying to like shame each other because like these are all like military

[00:45:28] men.

[00:45:28] These are all Marines, special ops, forces, everybody.

[00:45:32] And one of the guys says, I think it's going to be you.

[00:45:34] I think it's going to be you.

[00:45:35] I think it's going to be you.

[00:45:37] And as they're climbing the mountain, one of his friends pulls him aside and says, hey,

[00:45:41] Brian over here, the guy who's got two amputated legs, his wife told me that he had a shotgun

[00:45:48] in his mouth two days before coming on this trip.

[00:45:52] And if he doesn't make it to the top of this mountain, we're probably not going to see him

[00:45:56] again.

[00:45:57] So halfway up the mountain, Brian is exhausted and his team, the people who he are with have

[00:46:03] to lean into the fact that they know that he is quietly struggling and that if he doesn't

[00:46:08] make it to the top of this mountain, that they might probably never see him again.

[00:46:12] And so what do they do?

[00:46:13] They spread the message amongst friends and they start encouraging him to get to the top

[00:46:17] of the mountain.

[00:46:18] They're 200 feet away from the summit.

[00:46:21] And Brian says he can't do it.

[00:46:23] He's turning back.

[00:46:23] And so what do they do?

[00:46:25] They drag this guy to the top of the mountain because they realize that their brother was

[00:46:30] fighting a secret fight that none of them had any preview to except for one guy who had

[00:46:35] a text message from this guy's wife.

[00:46:38] And he said it was the most impactful moment because I realized that in a moment of weakness,

[00:46:42] you have people around you who might know more than you think and they're willing to get

[00:46:47] you across the finish line.

[00:46:48] Now, this guy, Brian, is still around to this day because they helped him get to the top

[00:46:52] of this mountain, but I think about the mountain doesn't always have to be Mount Kilimanjaro.

[00:46:56] It can be any type of mountain, the new job, adjusting to a new city, trying to overcome

[00:47:02] challenges.

[00:47:03] And the best thing that we can do as men is not try and keep everybody away from the battles

[00:47:09] that we're trying to fight or the mountains that we're trying to climb, but let people

[00:47:12] in because you never know when somebody is going to be willing to drag you to the top

[00:47:15] of that mountain so you can accomplish things that maybe you didn't even think you could

[00:47:18] yourself.

[00:47:20] Yeah.

[00:47:20] I mean, you got me ready to run through a wall, man.

[00:47:23] Yeah.

[00:47:25] Yeah.

[00:47:25] No, for sure, man.

[00:47:26] I love it.

[00:47:27] And man, there's so much, bro.

[00:47:30] Like we got to come back for part two because I want to talk a little bit about how you

[00:47:39] wrap it up.

[00:47:40] Right.

[00:47:41] Like me and Will always talk about you thinking like an employee, not a boss.

[00:47:49] Right.

[00:47:51] How do you take all this?

[00:47:53] How do you take all this and apply it to your journey as an entrepreneur?

[00:47:59] Why do you think you're a successful entrepreneur?

[00:48:01] How do you deal with that day to day?

[00:48:03] How do you feel like you impact your team?

[00:48:06] What are the type of what's your values as a company?

[00:48:09] What are you trying to instill?

[00:48:10] What's your corporate culture?

[00:48:12] It's a constant process of evolution.

[00:48:16] You know what I mean?

[00:48:17] It's easy to sit here and talk about stories, right?

[00:48:20] But the implementation is where the rubber meets the road.

[00:48:23] And the one thing that I try and do is hold myself accountable.

[00:48:27] I had a really interesting guy on my podcast the other day.

[00:48:30] His name was Jason Urusi.

[00:48:32] Now, Jason has a philosophy called Live 100.

[00:48:36] And I thought it'd be really interesting to dive into what that means.

[00:48:38] And he said, so many of us are going through life living at 84, 78, 91.

[00:48:46] But you never realize that delta between how much you're living at 86 in your relationship

[00:48:53] or 74 in your physical health or maybe 91 in your business.

[00:48:58] You never recognize the delta between that number and 100.

[00:49:03] Because at the end of your life, you're going to ask yourself one question.

[00:49:07] Why didn't I try harder?

[00:49:10] You're not going to think about the things that you did often, but it's often the things

[00:49:13] that you didn't do.

[00:49:14] And so one of the things that I've been really trying to do ever since I had that talk with

[00:49:18] Jason is I've been trying to live 100.

[00:49:21] And I know that every day is not going to be a 100 day.

[00:49:24] But when I look back at everything for how I support my team, how I try and encourage others,

[00:49:30] how I talk to myself, I know that there's a delta between that number that I'm living at

[00:49:37] and 100.

[00:49:38] So one of the things that I've been trying to do with my team is I've been trying to trust

[00:49:43] more.

[00:49:44] As a boss, it's very easy to get caught up in the weeds.

[00:49:49] And that's where that employee mindset, no offense to anybody, is really about.

[00:49:53] It's the weeds.

[00:49:54] It's the things that don't matter.

[00:49:55] It's the things that we choose to consume ourselves with, right?

[00:49:58] A boss mindset comes from a place of trust.

[00:50:02] And so what I've been doing with my team is I've been putting a lot more trust into the

[00:50:07] people to do what they're supposed to do.

[00:50:10] And how do I do that?

[00:50:11] I publicly encourage them.

[00:50:13] I say, you know what?

[00:50:15] This is your thing.

[00:50:16] We're going to do whatever you want to do in this situation because you have the best

[00:50:20] knowledge.

[00:50:21] When you empower and invest time and resources into people, you can multiply yourself because

[00:50:29] you can get, as an entrepreneur, caught up in the game of trying to do everything every

[00:50:34] single day.

[00:50:35] But when you're truly powerful, you can get other people to believe in a vision that you

[00:50:41] can talk about.

[00:50:42] And I believe I said that a little bit earlier.

[00:50:43] To be a great leader, you have to cast a vision so big that other people can find themselves

[00:50:49] inside that vision.

[00:50:50] And that's one thing I've tried to do is create a bigger vision for where we are going as

[00:50:55] a team, how everybody's going to contribute to that.

[00:50:59] And when you feel that sense of I'm the owner of my thing, you're more willing to do what's

[00:51:05] necessary to help everybody else to be successful.

[00:51:08] But somebody has to set that tone.

[00:51:10] And that's the biggest thing that I've been really trying to focus on as I get a little

[00:51:13] bit older.

[00:51:14] For you, man.

[00:51:15] Good for you.

[00:51:16] That's big.

[00:51:17] Do you, we say on this show all the time, trust, but verify.

[00:51:23] Do you feel like, like I heard accountability in there, but is that that's part of it, right?

[00:51:30] It's an inherent part of like, yeah, you can boost somebody and encourage, but they have

[00:51:37] to be held accountable as well.

[00:51:39] A hundred percent.

[00:51:40] And this is kind of one of the things I talk about on my podcast all the time.

[00:51:43] There's a book, Gary Vaynerchuk, Gary V on social media in 2022.

[00:51:48] Yeah.

[00:51:48] He came out with a book called the 12 and a half, which is leveraging the emotional ingredients

[00:51:52] necessary for business success.

[00:51:54] Okay.

[00:51:55] Now, one of the things that he talks about in here is kind candor.

[00:51:59] So kind candor is this healthy conflict, but doing it in a nice way.

[00:52:05] So I will paint the vision.

[00:52:07] I will put trust in you to get the job done.

[00:52:10] But one of the things that we talk about is ultimate accountability.

[00:52:13] So we can have an honest and open conversation about this was your responsibility.

[00:52:18] Were you living up to the value of being ultimately accountable for that result?

[00:52:23] If you can look at me and say that you did, that's one thing.

[00:52:27] If you can look at me honestly and say, you know what?

[00:52:30] I dropped the ball on this.

[00:52:31] I should have done X, Y, Z.

[00:52:32] We're leading with that value, which is that North star that keeps people in line to what

[00:52:37] we know we're supposed to do.

[00:52:38] Because at the end of the day, it isn't just about me, but it's being accountable to the

[00:52:41] people around you.

[00:52:42] And if you don't do your job, none of us are going to be able to do our job either.

[00:52:46] But that's a constantly evolving process, right?

[00:52:49] You got to be that coach.

[00:52:50] You got to be the encourager.

[00:52:52] You got to hold people accountable to the things that they're supposed to get done

[00:52:54] because it's not just about you.

[00:52:56] It's about to everybody else as well.

[00:52:58] Yeah.

[00:52:59] Yeah, no doubt.

[00:53:01] Yes, sir.

[00:53:01] Oh, thank you so much for coming on the show today, man.

[00:53:04] I think it's just an amazing conversation.

[00:53:07] Before we let you go, we have a little game that we like to play with our guests.

[00:53:13] And it's called This or That.

[00:53:16] And before we get into that, anything, any parting words that you want to leave us with?

[00:53:21] Anything that you definitely wanted to share but you didn't get to?

[00:53:25] No, man.

[00:53:26] You guys are doing an amazing job with this platform.

[00:53:30] And the fact that you guys have been doing this as long as you guys have been doing this

[00:53:34] is really a testament to your tenacity and your grit.

[00:53:38] Thank you, man.

[00:53:38] Because once again, we show up.

[00:53:40] You do what you got to do.

[00:53:41] You're accountable to each other, but you're accountable to the audience that you're building

[00:53:44] as well.

[00:53:45] And I just want to say thank you guys so much for having me on.

[00:53:46] It's really a serious pleasure.

[00:53:49] Thank you, dude.

[00:53:50] And again, you see how that fate thing is, right?

[00:53:54] Because and the energy, the connections of things.

[00:53:58] Me and Walt just, I mean, I feel like we're always struggling through this.

[00:54:03] But we have, we're 123 episodes.

[00:54:08] This is 123.

[00:54:11] And we, I mean, even if we skip a week, we're still putting some content out, right?

[00:54:16] And it's, and we haven't really missed many weeks.

[00:54:19] And it, we've had these iterations of evolution in these 123 episodes.

[00:54:27] And every time we hit that moment of refresh, we're like, yo, do we do, do we keep going?

[00:54:34] Is this worth it?

[00:54:36] What are we doing?

[00:54:37] Right?

[00:54:38] And then we have someone on or someone hits us up on LinkedIn or on a side conversation

[00:54:44] that's like, keep going because you are an impact to the industry.

[00:54:49] You're doing something like just those words of encouragement.

[00:54:53] Cause it's not like, this is a labor of love still.

[00:54:55] There's no life changing money in it.

[00:54:57] So that is the currency right now.

[00:55:01] Right?

[00:55:02] Well, like that's the currency is like you sharing that with us.

[00:55:06] You didn't know that.

[00:55:06] You don't know any of this stuff.

[00:55:08] Like you sharing those thoughts, man.

[00:55:09] We appreciate that, man.

[00:55:11] And, and it's, it's, it's such the right conversation to be talking about this and letting people

[00:55:17] know that during their work struggles and all these struggles, like it's keep going,

[00:55:22] keep pushing, right?

[00:55:24] Find that right, happy.

[00:55:25] Like, and we just said it, like you, your, your spouse, your job is not going to give you

[00:55:29] instant gratification.

[00:55:31] The Yankees and the giants winning of game is not going to be the happiness that you're

[00:55:35] searching for.

[00:55:36] Like it's from within, you have to create your own happiness.

[00:55:39] You have to like find that balance of things to really, and it, and it, and it's, it's,

[00:55:45] it's a struggle.

[00:55:46] It's just true.

[00:55:47] We said he just, what we just gave us that 50% of somebody just said it right.

[00:55:51] 50% of people like struggle with that mental wellness on a day to day.

[00:55:57] So thank you, bro.

[00:55:58] That thank you, man.

[00:55:59] Thank you, Keenan.

[00:56:00] Hey man, I just want to give you guys a message of encouragement.

[00:56:02] One day things will pop or you'll have that moment of, oh my gosh, we finally made it.

[00:56:09] And when you can look back at the original hundred plus episodes, that's when everybody's

[00:56:16] going to tune in because Amazon only got traction.

[00:56:18] Once I knew about Jeff Bezos from the biggest billionaire of billionaires.

[00:56:23] But if he had a vlog back in the day of him building in the warehouse with his team, picking

[00:56:30] what books were going to be available.

[00:56:31] And then they said, we could also sell mugs and all this type of stuff.

[00:56:35] That's when I would love to go back and look at the story from the beginning.

[00:56:39] So the documentation of the journey that you guys have together is so important.

[00:56:43] Yep.

[00:56:43] Early on, I shared a picture of Jeff Bezos in his office with like a paper Amazon sign

[00:56:50] over his desk.

[00:56:51] So yeah, man, it's, man.

[00:56:53] All right.

[00:56:54] Before we close it out, we'd love to play this game with folks and just lighten it up,

[00:56:58] gives people a different view of things.

[00:57:01] And well, you want to start it off?

[00:57:02] Yep.

[00:57:03] So we have six questions for you.

[00:57:05] It can be one or the other or both or neither.

[00:57:09] Neither.

[00:57:09] So here we go.

[00:57:11] Football or basketball?

[00:57:12] Basketball.

[00:57:15] That's basketball for me, man.

[00:57:16] What you guys can't see is I got a picture of a Tayshaun Prince blocking Reggie Miller

[00:57:21] in the 2000s conference finals over there.

[00:57:24] And I got Kobe right here as well.

[00:57:25] Can't really see it in my light, but basketball for me, man.

[00:57:28] Yeah.

[00:57:28] Okay.

[00:57:29] Nice.

[00:57:29] LA or Vegas?

[00:57:33] Vegas, man.

[00:57:34] Hometown right now.

[00:57:35] Gotta love Vegas growing and becoming something special every year.

[00:57:39] Nice.

[00:57:39] No doubt.

[00:57:39] My last one is Excel or Google Sheets.

[00:57:45] Google Sheets for me, brother.

[00:57:46] Oh.

[00:57:47] Okay.

[00:57:48] I love being able to share.

[00:57:50] You know what I'm saying?

[00:57:50] We do a lot of stuff as a team on Google Sheets.

[00:57:52] So I love that.

[00:57:53] No doubt.

[00:57:54] I think you already answered this for us, but LeBron or Kobe?

[00:57:58] It's gotta be Kobe for me, man.

[00:58:00] The OG, man.

[00:58:01] Seriously.

[00:58:02] Mamba.

[00:58:02] He inspires me to this day.

[00:58:04] Real talk.

[00:58:04] I was, I was onboarding a young guy the other day who works at a basketball facility and he's

[00:58:11] like, oh, what's today's date?

[00:58:12] And I was like, oh, 824.

[00:58:14] He's like, oh, Kobe day.

[00:58:15] And I was just like, what?

[00:58:17] Oh my gosh.

[00:58:20] Oh man.

[00:58:21] Next one is remote or hybrid?

[00:58:24] I wish I could do hybrid.

[00:58:27] I've done remote my entire life.

[00:58:28] My entire entrepreneurial career has been hybrid, but I'll tell it, or has been remote, but

[00:58:33] I wish that I had the ability to bring people to an office because I don't really believe

[00:58:37] that you can get away from that time of spent with each other.

[00:58:41] You know what I'm saying?

[00:58:42] Those micro conversations are incredibly valuable for me.

[00:58:45] Yeah.

[00:58:45] Yeah.

[00:58:46] I've struggled with, with that, this question.

[00:58:49] And that's why I think it stays on this list because I've been struggling with it for a

[00:58:52] while and I'm, I'm beginning to appreciate hybrid more.

[00:58:57] I've been, I was remote for four years straight just, but I'm beginning to appreciate that

[00:59:02] connection, that community, that fellowship again.

[00:59:06] And I, and I do, I do prefer the hybrid now.

[00:59:08] Last one, meat or veggies?

[00:59:12] I'm a, I'm a, I'm a meat guy because my girl is all about the veggies.

[00:59:16] You know what I mean?

[00:59:16] Nothing, nothing better than a good steak for me.

[00:59:19] You know what I'm saying?

[00:59:19] Or some chicken trying to, trying to lean out as well.

[00:59:22] So that definitely helps me build that muscles too.

[00:59:24] Yeah.

[00:59:25] Yeah.

[00:59:25] No doubt.

[00:59:26] Same here, man.

[00:59:27] Just trying to stay healthy is, I think that's the time that we're in, we're in right

[00:59:31] now.

[00:59:31] And the age, like I've been talking about this recurring, you're not, you may not quite

[00:59:35] be there yet.

[00:59:36] You're still a little young there, but we're in this midlife.

[00:59:39] I don't want to call, I don't want to call a midnight crisis.

[00:59:42] I don't think it's that it's a midlife reevaluation of things, right?

[00:59:46] Where you just hit that wall and you're like, wait a minute, I have to, I may have to change

[00:59:50] my life and shed some of these young thinkings and these silly ways and, and, and really try

[00:59:57] to be more mature, be more intentional.

[01:00:00] What is being intentional mean?

[01:00:02] And what all these things.

[01:00:03] And it's just a real, a midlife reevaluation because it doesn't have to be a midlife crisis.

[01:00:08] People, we love drama.

[01:00:10] Me and Will talk about that all the time.

[01:00:11] The drama, people just love the drama of things.

[01:00:13] Like you invite that drama and that negative energy and like, you cannot, you got to shed

[01:00:19] that out.

[01:00:19] Can't that it's, it's not productive.

[01:00:22] It's not conducive to your health and or progress.

[01:00:26] So yeah, man, we just, yeah, you might have a little couple more years there.

[01:00:30] So to, to, to circle it back to payroll for us and employees and HR and all that we have,

[01:00:37] we ended with a safe talk kind of conversation of things.

[01:00:41] And Walt posed the question to us, should more payroll and HR pros strive to be more entrepreneurial?

[01:00:50] And what are your thoughts on that Keenan?

[01:00:52] I think so, man.

[01:00:53] One of my favorite sayings is what got us here won't get us there.

[01:00:57] Yes, man.

[01:00:58] Oh, one of the things that you said to me was payroll is life.

[01:01:03] You know what I mean?

[01:01:03] And when we're talking about such a fundamental service, but also something that keeps all

[01:01:07] of our lives going, I think there's a room for a lot of entrepreneurial spirit in the

[01:01:13] payroll space.

[01:01:14] And I think different ideas, different perspectives are the cradle of progress.

[01:01:22] And I think being able to have a different approach is not a bad thing, even in spaces

[01:01:26] like payroll and HR.

[01:01:27] Cause once again, what got us here is not going to get us there.

[01:01:30] And that healthy sense of curiosity is something I talk about a lot on my podcasts as well.

[01:01:34] You got to build that skill to be curious about doing things differently because that's when

[01:01:39] the best stuff comes out and that's how you do right by others.

[01:01:42] Dope.

[01:01:43] What do you think?

[01:01:44] No, I couldn't have said it any better.

[01:01:46] Keenan hit it right on the head, hit the nail on the head.

[01:01:49] And I totally agree with what he just articulated.

[01:01:52] What about you, Brian?

[01:01:54] Yeah, no, for sure.

[01:01:55] Already know that's how we got here.

[01:01:56] We started this with trying to build an app that is still on the horizon and just with

[01:02:01] bootstrapping things and trying to come up with different solutions and creativity.

[01:02:07] So yeah, entrepreneurial has been part of my journey since, I mean, shoot, I talked about

[01:02:13] it on the show with you and as a, since a young age, man.

[01:02:17] So yes, I think.

[01:02:19] And, and again, at the beginning of this show, how we talk about how we talked about how things

[01:02:24] were so expensive and inflation and none of that.

[01:02:27] Oh, by the way, the article that we, that I covered in the beginning was five ways to

[01:02:32] boost employees happiness because year over year employee happiness is down 5%, right?

[01:02:41] You, I'm sure at least that's like crazy.

[01:02:43] So it's like, yeah, of course, cause things are getting expensive.

[01:02:46] Raises are not it.

[01:02:48] It's always like a 3% cap and businesses incorporated and blah, blah, blah.

[01:02:52] And it's like, look, if you want more, you gotta do more to get more.

[01:02:56] You know what I mean?

[01:02:57] It's again, no one thing is going to fulfill you and solve all your things.

[01:03:02] You got what you put in is what you get out.

[01:03:04] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:03:05] I think everybody in every phase of life should have a little hustle, a little grid, a little

[01:03:11] that entrepreneurial spirit, whatever you doing or entrepreneurial even right.

[01:03:15] You can be an entrepreneur in your company and help to spread.

[01:03:19] How are you helping your company make money?

[01:03:21] So yeah, man.

[01:03:23] And before we go, Kenan, how can people find you?

[01:03:26] Where is your, what is the name of your podcast?

[01:03:29] Where is it?

[01:03:30] Where do we listen?

[01:03:32] Yeah, man.

[01:03:32] You can come over to YouTube.

[01:03:34] You can search my name, Kenan Hart, K-E-E-N-A-N-H-A-R-T, the Hart and Hustle, H-A-R-T and Hustle

[01:03:40] podcast.

[01:03:41] I'm really talking to a lot of different leaders that I feel like represent that intersection,

[01:03:45] which is super important of heart and hustle.

[01:03:47] And I've recognized that that's really kind of the way to stay sustainable in this chase

[01:03:52] for personal greatness that we're all seeming to accomplish as well.

[01:03:55] I love it.

[01:03:56] Awesome.

[01:03:57] I love it.

[01:03:58] Dope, man.

[01:04:00] Look, it was a great episode, man.

[01:04:02] Thank you for making the time for us tonight, man.

[01:04:04] And I appreciate you.

[01:04:05] We appreciate, go check Kenan out.

[01:04:07] He's got some amazing episodes out there doing great things for us.

[01:04:11] Sign up for the Francis, get your company to get on that Francis tip.

[01:04:15] The employees need those little, imagine if your employees just got a word of wisdom every

[01:04:19] day to just help encouragement, help you get there in the day that mental wellness and

[01:04:24] leaders need to set the tone for a safe place for mental wellness.

[01:04:30] And Kenan and Francis can help with that, man.

[01:04:32] Thank you, bro.

[01:04:33] We appreciate you, man.

[01:04:35] Absolutely, guys.

[01:04:37] Really appreciate you having me on.

[01:04:38] No doubt.

[01:04:40] And good night, everybody.

[01:04:41] And we love you, man.

[01:04:42] Peace.

[01:04:43] Peace.

[01:04:43] Peace.

[01:04:46] Before we sign off, here are a couple of quick things.

[01:04:48] Don't forget to follow.

[01:04:49] It's about payroll on LinkedIn.

[01:04:51] And it's about your paycheck on Facebook and TikTok.

[01:04:55] Thank you for being part of our payroll community.

[01:04:58] And thank you for being a part of this journey with us until the next time.

[01:05:03] Keep learning.

[01:05:03] Keep growing.

[01:05:04] And most importantly, keep going.