From Living in His Car to Innovating Healthcare with SureCo CEO Matthew Kim

[00:00:00] .

[00:00:01] One of my co-workers at Nordstrom was talking about a guy that used to work there and I was

[00:00:06] outbunding.

[00:00:07] I was selling women's shoes, I was pretty damn good.

[00:00:11] I still watch the reruns of that today.

[00:00:14] It's such a cool game because it's so you layer on a lot of charm and confidence, but

[00:00:22] you just compliment people like okay that looks really good or you know what I think

[00:00:28] I think first of all that's good but not great.

[00:00:30] Why don't we take a look at these other things?

[00:00:33] Everybody likes to hear that.

[00:00:34] All right, I want to talk to you for a moment about retaining and developing your workforce.

[00:00:39] It's hard.

[00:00:40] Recruiting is hard.

[00:00:41] Retaining top employees is hard.

[00:00:43] Then you've got onboarding, payroll, benefits, time and labor management.

[00:00:47] You need to take care of your workforce and you can only do this successfully if

[00:00:51] you commit to transforming your employee experience.

[00:00:55] This is where ISoft comes in.

[00:00:57] They empower you to be successful.

[00:01:00] We've seen it with a number of companies that we've worked with and this is why we partner

[00:01:04] with them here at WorkDefined.

[00:01:07] We trust them and you should too.

[00:01:09] Check them out at isolvedhcm.com.

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[00:01:50] This is Ryan Leary and William Tin Cup and you are listening to Inside the C-Suite

[00:01:56] Today we have Matthew Kim, who is the CEO of Shorco on with us today.

[00:02:02] We're going to take some time and learn all about his journey, where he's from, how he

[00:02:08] grew up, his journey through life and business and how he ended up to where he is today.

[00:02:15] So Matthew, welcome into the call.

[00:02:17] Why don't you start us off by introducing yourself to the audience and telling us

[00:02:21] a little bit about yourself?

[00:02:22] Sure.

[00:02:23] First of all, thank you guys so much for having me.

[00:02:25] It's truly an honor to be here.

[00:02:27] This is actually the first time I've ever been on a podcast.

[00:02:29] So it should be a little interesting.

[00:02:31] The bar's really low, Matthew.

[00:02:33] You're going to be fine.

[00:02:34] Just think of us as Starbucks and we're just kind of sitting around talking

[00:02:38] about stuff.

[00:02:39] When you're doing fantastic so far.

[00:02:41] So far.

[00:02:42] Yes.

[00:02:44] A little bit about me.

[00:02:46] Matthew Kim, CEO and co-founder of Shorco.

[00:02:51] I've been in the healthcare space for almost 20 years now.

[00:02:54] And yeah.

[00:02:55] And wow.

[00:02:58] So let's go backwards, Matthew.

[00:03:01] How did you, what did you do before Shorco?

[00:03:05] Before Shorco was an insurance agency called Bayside.

[00:03:10] Right.

[00:03:11] And kind of before that, I was an insurance agent at Health Markets.

[00:03:15] And before that, I worked at Nordstrom.

[00:03:17] So Shorco does what?

[00:03:20] What are they, what's the problem that they solve?

[00:03:22] So the biggest problem that we're solving is right now, especially when it comes to employee

[00:03:30] benefits and specifically on the medical side, it's a one-size-fits-all affair.

[00:03:36] And the thing about one-size-fits-all that really doesn't fit anyone.

[00:03:40] And so what we're really doing is kind of creating the, what we call like the enterprise

[00:03:45] health care exchange.

[00:03:47] And this is the first time working Americans will actually have truly a choice in their

[00:03:53] health plan and benefits that are really kind of customized and unique for them.

[00:03:59] And that's what we're doing today.

[00:04:00] So Matthew, what problem does Shorco, what do you all solve?

[00:04:04] Where did you start out?

[00:04:06] Yeah.

[00:04:07] So one of the biggest problems that we're solving is in employer benefits today, it's

[00:04:13] kind of a one-size-fits approach.

[00:04:16] And truly that one-size-fits-all approach kind of doesn't fit anyone.

[00:04:21] And really what we've done is what we call, we've created the enterprise health care

[00:04:26] exchange.

[00:04:27] And really what this does is allows working Americans for the first time to be able to

[00:04:33] pick the best benefits in health plan specifically for them and their family.

[00:04:38] And we're just really excited about that.

[00:04:40] So let me make sure I understand.

[00:04:43] So inside of it, is this a company provided insurance?

[00:04:46] Corporate?

[00:04:47] See, it is company contributed health insurance.

[00:04:51] Contributed, thank you.

[00:04:53] So company contributed insurance and they used to, they just get Humanina or United

[00:04:58] Health Care or whatever, Blue Cross.

[00:05:02] And then whatever that plan is that they got, that was a plan for everybody.

[00:05:06] Yeah.

[00:05:07] Sometimes they might have one or two options and typically, especially for those that have

[00:05:15] a distributed workforce, a lot of pricing pressure, a lot of plan design that really

[00:05:23] doesn't suit the individual because as we kind of all know, maybe we don't all know

[00:05:27] is health care and your own personal wellness is a very personal journey.

[00:05:33] And what people really kind of relate to and understand are like the brands they're

[00:05:37] familiar with when it comes to their health care is like their local hospital in the hospital

[00:05:41] system.

[00:05:42] And that's where some of the big inefficiencies are with our current structure, with how

[00:05:48] benefits and specifically the health plans work.

[00:05:51] Why solve this problem?

[00:05:52] I mean, you know, you could have solved anything, right?

[00:05:55] So you could have pointed the gun towards anything and said, yeah, let me go solve

[00:05:58] this problem.

[00:06:00] Why did you, why did you?

[00:06:03] Why did you pick this thing to solve?

[00:06:07] There's a multitude of reasons.

[00:06:09] I like at its core for me personally, they're like can kind of go into it in a

[00:06:16] minute, but like there was some tragedy that happened in my own life.

[00:06:21] And then second was really, I have a deep, deep appreciation for this country.

[00:06:27] And just in regards to like, you know, my family has the typical immigrant story.

[00:06:33] And being able to give back and really drive impact and effective change specifically

[00:06:41] in health care, which has a real deep meaning for me personally.

[00:06:46] That's kind of why.

[00:06:47] And the second piece of this is, you know, for me, I've always kind of seen

[00:06:52] the market and like, really kind of see that moment like we were what we're

[00:06:58] seeing with AI, like the zeitgeist and the title chains was happening.

[00:07:02] And what kind of what the impetus was for where I'm sure Co is today was

[00:07:09] actually a regulatory chain called the ICHRA.

[00:07:12] And that's where I really saw, oh, this is something that can really be

[00:07:19] a game changer in the industry.

[00:07:21] And it has been.

[00:07:23] Matthew, let's go back to you said your family is really interesting.

[00:07:28] Immigrant story.

[00:07:30] And I like to learn a little bit about that, right?

[00:07:32] So the people that are listening to this episode or to the show inside the

[00:07:36] C-suite, they're interested in understanding what makes the CEO tick,

[00:07:42] what makes leadership motivate it will motivate you and what your story

[00:07:47] was and what you come up with.

[00:07:49] So maybe take us back a little bit, share a little bit about that story.

[00:07:53] And we'll start to learn a little more about you.

[00:07:56] Yeah, you know, typical immigrant story.

[00:08:01] My parents didn't have kind of two nipples to rub together to come over to the state.

[00:08:06] When my dad actually flew over here, it was my

[00:08:12] was my aunt that actually gave him $20 and I was the only $20 that he had.

[00:08:18] And just kind of here, will and grit, they they actually landed

[00:08:24] in Las Vegas of all places.

[00:08:26] And that's where I was born, probably one of the only people you'll ever have on this podcast.

[00:08:32] Kind of feel like you were going to already unique.

[00:08:35] He threw $20 into slot machines and the rest is history.

[00:08:41] And, you know, from there, you know, there's always these stories.

[00:08:47] And one of the ones that kind of always stick out to me

[00:08:50] is when my mom came here and she had to get work and not speaking really a lick of English.

[00:08:57] What she did was she learned the Denny's menu inside and out,

[00:09:01] and it was the only English you really could speak.

[00:09:04] And she did that so that she can have a waitress job.

[00:09:08] Oh, that's genius.

[00:09:10] That is genius.

[00:09:11] That is.

[00:09:12] I was sort of like English that she could pronounce was the Denny's menu.

[00:09:15] Yeah, that's a little.

[00:09:17] The thing is you make yourself indisposable like the mindset behind that.

[00:09:23] She could have learned five, ten, fifteen different menus and it would have been

[00:09:26] a little bit watered down a little bit harder, a lot harder.

[00:09:29] But by focusing on one, you know, there's 20 Denny's in Las Vegas.

[00:09:34] So it's like if one doesn't work out, I know the next one.

[00:09:38] Exactly. Genius move, genius move.

[00:09:41] What were some of your heroes growing up?

[00:09:43] There were some.

[00:09:45] You know, kind of growing up when I was really young,

[00:09:49] my brother-in-law interestingly enough,

[00:09:52] my eldest sister and I were 16 years apart.

[00:09:56] We have the same exact birthday

[00:09:59] and yeah, January 30th and her husband

[00:10:04] was actually her boyfriend when I was born.

[00:10:08] Ha, ha, ha, ha.

[00:10:10] And they probably babysat you at different points.

[00:10:13] Oh, absolutely.

[00:10:14] They still babysit me.

[00:10:16] He changed your diaper.

[00:10:18] He's like part of the family.

[00:10:20] Oh, that's awesome.

[00:10:23] And you know, he's a huge big time athlete, even when we're younger

[00:10:27] for ball team, volleyball team.

[00:10:29] So he was absolutely my kind of go to hero when I was younger.

[00:10:33] And, you know, as I got older,

[00:10:38] one of the I would never probably tell this to her face,

[00:10:41] but my eldest sister was actually a big time hero of mine.

[00:10:45] And that's where I kind of learned

[00:10:49] the power of sales and persuasion

[00:10:51] and being able to communicate clearly,

[00:10:54] which I'm kind of failing at horribly right now.

[00:10:57] Oh, you're not.

[00:11:00] And kind of seeing that,

[00:11:02] that's what actually gave me the courage

[00:11:03] to kind of go into sales when I was very young.

[00:11:07] That is interesting.

[00:11:08] So, little Matthew as a child,

[00:11:12] did you have any entrepreneurial spirit back then?

[00:11:15] Did you have your lemonade stand?

[00:11:17] Were you mowing lawns?

[00:11:18] What were you doing?

[00:11:19] Yeah. So definitely.

[00:11:21] When I was, I remember in middle school,

[00:11:25] the easy thing for me was, you know,

[00:11:27] going to the Costco trip with mom and then buying candy

[00:11:31] and then pedaling candy at school.

[00:11:35] Awesome.

[00:11:37] Yeah, I used to go to BJ's just to get the free samples of food

[00:11:40] and eat that.

[00:11:41] Oh yeah. I wasn't so good at candy.

[00:11:43] To come in and already be rocking like a hundred bags of M&Ms.

[00:11:48] Yeah, you were a hero.

[00:11:49] You were a hero.

[00:11:51] Oh, yeah.

[00:11:52] That's what actually, actually

[00:11:54] I found more friends that way

[00:11:55] and became a little bit more popular.

[00:11:56] So that was definitely when they're

[00:12:00] like, there's already always has gum on them.

[00:12:02] Always. It's just a dollar.

[00:12:05] Just a dollar.

[00:12:07] It's so genius.

[00:12:10] Where did you where'd you end up going or did you go to college?

[00:12:14] I actually didn't.

[00:12:15] I threw out my whole kind of high school career.

[00:12:19] I kind of bet the farm I want to go to an Ivy League school

[00:12:24] and it kind of wasn't in my guards.

[00:12:26] Right. And then so the I couldn't kind of sit back at home.

[00:12:31] All my friends were going to college.

[00:12:32] So that's why I made the trek out to California.

[00:12:35] And went to kind of J.C.

[00:12:38] And started trying doing some part time work at Nordstrom.

[00:12:42] And then I remember one of my coworkers at Nordstrom

[00:12:48] was talking about a guy that used to work there.

[00:12:51] And I was Al Bundy.

[00:12:52] I was telling women's shoes.

[00:12:53] I was pretty damn good.

[00:12:56] I still watch the reruns of that today.

[00:12:59] It's such a cool game because it's so

[00:13:03] again, you just you layer on a lot of charm and confidence.

[00:13:08] But you just you compliment people like OK, that looks real like

[00:13:12] that looks really good.

[00:13:13] Or you know what I think I think first of all that's good but not great.

[00:13:17] Why don't we take a look at these other things?

[00:13:19] Everybody likes to hear that.

[00:13:21] The thing that was great about Nordstrom

[00:13:24] and it was so influential very early on is the power customer service.

[00:13:29] Yeah.

[00:13:31] That was something that they kind of ingrained into your DNA,

[00:13:35] working at Nordstrom.

[00:13:36] And actually before I worked here in California, I worked in Seattle,

[00:13:42] which is where the headquarters like the OG store was.

[00:13:46] And really? Yeah.

[00:13:48] And that's where you would actually see the family

[00:13:52] like some of the Nordstrom family kind of going up and down the escalators.

[00:13:56] And you know, that was like it was something to kind of be reverent about

[00:14:01] and like learning and understanding.

[00:14:03] You know, I think even at that age, it was like, oh, I want to be a suit

[00:14:07] like them one day. Right.

[00:14:08] Yeah. Well, what one of the values of Nordstrom

[00:14:12] do right by the customer or some variation of that?

[00:14:15] Oh, yeah.

[00:14:17] Yeah. And they held to that.

[00:14:20] I mean, the your first day there, the video you're watching

[00:14:24] is a news anchor reporting on how Nordstrom actually refunded,

[00:14:31] you know, the little grandma attire.

[00:14:36] Yeah. And just to what length they would go to make sure

[00:14:40] to provide top notch service.

[00:14:43] Yeah. So so so customer service, you learned customer service there.

[00:14:49] And that was it.

[00:14:50] It was obviously had an impression on you.

[00:14:53] Where did you go from Nordstrom and how did you take that with you?

[00:14:57] Yeah. So where I went from Nordstrom and this was explaining was

[00:15:02] co-worker of mine was kind of talking about like some big hot shot

[00:15:05] that would come in and buy shoes.

[00:15:07] And she told me that he started making a ton of money

[00:15:11] in the insurance business and just being kind of young and dumb.

[00:15:15] I was like, oh, I'm interested.

[00:15:16] I can sell things.

[00:15:17] And that's how I fell into health markets, which was

[00:15:22] UGA back in the day and that eventually got acquired by Blackstone.

[00:15:27] And that's how I kind of fell into health insurance for kind of small business owners.

[00:15:34] So what was the product or products plural?

[00:15:37] So you talked to an entrepreneur, business owner,

[00:15:39] they got 100 employees or whatever the bid is.

[00:15:43] Were you more were you more of a broker?

[00:15:46] No, we were captive agents.

[00:15:48] This was definitely a little bit of multi-level marketing

[00:15:51] and it's fine. There was definitely some Kool-Aid being drank at that time.

[00:15:58] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[00:16:00] But I, you know, other than the fact that I eventually learned

[00:16:04] that the products weren't the very best and that were great.

[00:16:08] But there was a lot that I learned.

[00:16:10] And that was probably one of the most kind of pivotal

[00:16:14] moments in my life that really shaped me was going through that process

[00:16:19] because as you're kind of getting doctrinated very early,

[00:16:22] they're promising quarter million dollars.

[00:16:24] Everyone does it and, you know, once again, being ignorant and naive at that time.

[00:16:29] I believed it.

[00:16:31] A little that I know that the role was 100 percent commission

[00:16:35] and the importance of a hundred percent commission type situation.

[00:16:40] And from there, I basically bet the farm had no more money.

[00:16:45] I was like, overdrawn in my checking account.

[00:16:48] And that's actually when I got evicted out of my apartment.

[00:16:53] Yeah.

[00:16:54] And that's why I lived out of my car for a couple of weeks.

[00:16:56] And like I just got really lucky that a co-worker

[00:17:02] at the Orange County office, she just so happened to be looking for a roommate.

[00:17:06] And I just so happened to make and made a sale.

[00:17:09] And it was just enough to kind of clear my overdrafts

[00:17:13] and adjust enough to put down the down payment on the department

[00:17:18] and have like, I want to say it was like eight dollars and 15 cents to pay for.

[00:17:25] It says like Taco Bell for a while.

[00:17:32] So OK, so so now you you're homeless.

[00:17:37] You found the roommate, right?

[00:17:39] I'm like in this story, right?

[00:17:41] I'm like, I'm loving the grip behind this, right?

[00:17:44] So what what motivated you at that time?

[00:17:47] Right. A lot of people we give up, they would give up and just say,

[00:17:50] you know what, I need to go get a job somewhere,

[00:17:54] which I'm sure obviously you had to, right?

[00:17:57] You went and got a job, but they give up.

[00:17:59] They're living in their car.

[00:18:01] They don't have a place to go.

[00:18:02] They fall into a depression of some sort.

[00:18:05] And it just spirals from there.

[00:18:07] What motivated you and kept you going forward at that point?

[00:18:12] The one just the kind of personal shame

[00:18:18] of having to like go move back in with my parents.

[00:18:21] But if I were to be 100 percent honest, that's a lot of that.

[00:18:24] Yeah, that was just not an option on the table for me.

[00:18:27] Kind of going back to my home.

[00:18:29] We're all did your parents know the situation?

[00:18:34] A little bit. They kind of knew what they do now.

[00:18:38] And your sister knows that she was your hero.

[00:18:42] So we're doing good.

[00:18:44] We're doing good.

[00:18:47] And yeah, I would say that was definitely kind of one of the things.

[00:18:52] And at that point in time, I still believed in the business

[00:18:55] and the opportunity.

[00:18:57] And so that's what also kind of kept me hanging on.

[00:18:59] And I wasn't luckily this was all of two weeks.

[00:19:02] I was kind of sitting in my car trying to figure it out.

[00:19:05] And then, yeah, and then the rest was history at that point.

[00:19:09] And we got we got very good selling to kind of small business.

[00:19:15] So these were micro business owners from like right person to a 10 person shop.

[00:19:21] And interestingly enough, my roommate's boyfriend is actually my co-founder.

[00:19:30] Did you all go?

[00:19:31] Would there another step in between there and Shirko?

[00:19:35] Yeah, that was Bayside.

[00:19:36] And that's so I got him a job at health markets and it wasn't really getting a job.

[00:19:43] You just kind of you can talk and get in.

[00:19:46] But I was doing OK.

[00:19:48] And we teamed up together similar to how you'd see like a real estate agent

[00:19:54] kind of team up with someone.

[00:19:56] And we did very well.

[00:19:58] And then we kind of rose to the top.

[00:20:00] I think at some point we were like the top 10 in the nation.

[00:20:03] And there was probably about 4,000 independent agents working for

[00:20:08] United States with those at that time.

[00:20:11] So it's the president's club.

[00:20:13] You're going to Hawaii.

[00:20:15] You're doing all kinds of fun stuff.

[00:20:16] We cool like making a lot of money.

[00:20:19] Notice a big that model also has residuals, right?

[00:20:23] So you'd have the account.

[00:20:25] But as it goes on, years into it, you'd also get residuals.

[00:20:28] Is that right?

[00:20:29] Yeah. So that was a big kind of piece of the pie.

[00:20:34] Yeah. What eventually happened was we kind of started getting

[00:20:39] is the way that they explained it was like, oh, all of the other

[00:20:42] individual plans or small group plans out there are horrible.

[00:20:45] We have the best products.

[00:20:47] And I forgot what the impetus was, but we started to like

[00:20:52] actually dig into some of these products and saw that they were just

[00:20:56] much better products. Right.

[00:20:58] And that's where we kind of made the change over into building our own

[00:21:02] little agency.

[00:21:04] And a lot of those clients from the UGA days actually moved over to

[00:21:09] the agency. And so that kind of helped get it off the ground.

[00:21:14] Well, take us into the early days of the agency.

[00:21:16] When what time period are we talking about?

[00:21:21] I want to say probably.

[00:21:24] I think it started 2009.

[00:21:27] OK.

[00:21:28] And in 2009, the whole financial crisis was like the whole world was

[00:21:33] melting at that point in time. Right.

[00:21:35] And that's where my co-founders now wife, so he

[00:21:42] could put his ex-girlfriend, that was my roommate, introduced us to a friend

[00:21:46] and he would actually come from the mortgage crisis, but much more

[00:21:50] mature about the situation and set himself up well and looking at a new

[00:21:55] endeavor and he was just interested in the whole insurance game.

[00:21:59] And long story short, he came and kind of joined with us.

[00:22:05] And that's when I started to really kind of learn a little bit about business.

[00:22:09] And up to that point in time, I was just the sales guy.

[00:22:13] Right.

[00:22:13] And that's we were so bad in the beginning of the business.

[00:22:20] Wow.

[00:22:21] We were actually working out of our his house, my co-founders house.

[00:22:24] His name is Matt as well.

[00:22:26] And we were too cheap to actually buy like another phone.

[00:22:30] So we would just pass the corded phone back and forth.

[00:22:33] Everything was done on paper.

[00:22:36] We found the mailed application.

[00:22:37] It was just horrific to even think about today.

[00:22:41] No, no, no.

[00:22:42] We did have computers and email in 2000.

[00:22:45] Yeah.

[00:22:46] Yeah, but this is the origin story.

[00:22:48] This is actually the fun stuff.

[00:22:49] This is the you don't have that stuff.

[00:22:51] Then you don't appreciate the growth.

[00:22:54] Yeah.

[00:22:54] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:22:55] Yeah.

[00:22:57] So what was what was Matt's?

[00:22:58] What's his superpower?

[00:23:01] Matt's superpower is he's a room tilter is what we say.

[00:23:06] And what Matt's superpower is, is he there's just a gravitational

[00:23:11] pole in any room that he kind of enters.

[00:23:15] And that's where he's actually the one that actually kind of put

[00:23:20] the partnership and kind of helped bring Robert Ori into the organization.

[00:23:25] Yeah, well, tell us a little bit more about that because I think

[00:23:28] Ryan and I saw the same press release.

[00:23:32] And we're going to have on the show.

[00:23:33] We'll get a schedule, but it's just a fascinating story

[00:23:37] and great, I would say great hire, but great addition to the team.

[00:23:42] Absolutely.

[00:23:43] And the thing with Robert, I mean, the way we kind of met was

[00:23:47] just serendipity.

[00:23:49] We were at a Laker event, charity event and forgot.

[00:23:55] I believe a friend of a friend introduced us to Robert and Matt

[00:24:02] and Robert just kind of hit it off.

[00:24:04] Robert was talking about how he's been planning on investing

[00:24:07] in different clinics and long and then like one like one thing

[00:24:11] led to another and that really kind of showcased like what

[00:24:15] Shurko was doing and really about the purpose that we're trying to drive behind.

[00:24:19] And that's where Robert was all the errors and kind of wide eyed

[00:24:23] and that's where really kind of captivated him to Shurko.

[00:24:28] And, you know, it's been about a year since that happened,

[00:24:30] maybe even a little bit longer.

[00:24:32] And he's kind of been in the background following our journey.

[00:24:36] And he's been, you know, as we've kind of gained traction

[00:24:39] and growth, he's been just super excited about it to the point

[00:24:42] where now we've got brought him on to the team

[00:24:45] just because his own personal story is really

[00:24:50] what kind of drives his own personal passion, why he's so on fire for Shurko

[00:24:54] and just having that type of one, the name that and obviously like

[00:25:00] seconds and on right, seven championships, but also just his own

[00:25:04] personal story just really helps drive really what we're all about here

[00:25:09] Shurko, which is kind of being this catalyst for change in our health care system.

[00:25:15] Yeah. So I made you realist.

[00:25:20] But I think it's a good question, good question.

[00:25:24] If you're like me, you can't answer this question because I don't read.

[00:25:28] So I read but not books.

[00:25:32] What book is on your nightstand right now?

[00:25:35] Hmm. I'm trying to think what you never know when you ask his question,

[00:25:41] if they actually read about nightstand or have a nightstand.

[00:25:45] Yeah, it's it's one of these questions.

[00:25:48] And if not on the nightstand, what's been the most influential book?

[00:25:52] So there's actually what's on the nightstand right now?

[00:25:55] There's actually two things.

[00:25:57] One is a book, a book process, but it's under a Gino Whitman

[00:26:03] in the US group. The second book is actually a book.

[00:26:09] It's not really a book, it's more of a digital book on just what's happening

[00:26:14] with AI, what Microsoft is doing specifically in some other data and tooling.

[00:26:20] And I just that it's just a personal hobby that I enjoy doing at times.

[00:26:26] What do you where do you see the the crossroads of AI

[00:26:30] and what you do, especially the insurance industry in general?

[00:26:33] But because you're sitting on a ton of data.

[00:26:36] Absolutely, there's all kinds of I mean, again, it's a regulated industry.

[00:26:40] We totally get that.

[00:26:41] But you're sitting on a ton of data.

[00:26:43] What do you where do you see kind of not the flying cars stuff

[00:26:46] but just like the next couple of years?

[00:26:49] How is it going to impact your industry?

[00:26:51] The there's when you kind of think about the AI piece,

[00:26:56] there's different levels, right?

[00:26:58] Love the stack between the infrastructure, the platform,

[00:27:01] the tools and then the application layer.

[00:27:05] Where I see the immediate impact in the fact that it's already kind of

[00:27:09] happening is in the tooling area and really the tooling around

[00:27:15] how do you actually is one of the biggest problems specifically

[00:27:19] in health care is a data problem.

[00:27:22] Is there everyone sitting on a purpose amounts of data?

[00:27:27] Silent none of it is transparent because it's all

[00:27:31] kind of hidden under the veil of HIPAA, which is not really necessary.

[00:27:35] Right. And who is the there's no incentive

[00:27:40] to actually provide that data, especially by the big heavy weights

[00:27:45] that have that data.

[00:27:46] And that's where I actually see specifically with AI right now

[00:27:51] is kind of connecting the dots when it comes to this data.

[00:27:56] There are just such simple things that are just so common and expected

[00:28:02] in everything else that we have from a product

[00:28:04] that is so not available in health care, health care and benefits.

[00:28:09] Even something simple as an accurate doctor search

[00:28:13] that connect to the actual health plan.

[00:28:16] Just simple thing, looking at an office visit.

[00:28:21] It's still hard to do.

[00:28:22] So that's that's where I can see AI being able to help stitch some of this

[00:28:27] information together, because that's really what's happening is a lot of

[00:28:31] consumers are just they don't have the information they need to be able

[00:28:34] to make the right choices.

[00:28:36] Yeah, and it's still mostly reactive.

[00:28:40] You know, if AI can do it can fulfill one promise for me

[00:28:44] in health care, particular insurance, particular is that it becomes

[00:28:49] it shows you how to be proactive about something.

[00:28:52] So you go in, it understands some of the things that are going on with you

[00:28:56] and then it recommends, hey, by the way, here are the five things

[00:28:59] you need to do by the next appointment.

[00:29:01] You know, that type of stuff.

[00:29:03] I can't help but think that if we go from being a reactive

[00:29:06] to society to proactive and get in front of some of these issues,

[00:29:11] not all, you know, just I think AI can help there.

[00:29:14] I mean, I may be wrong.

[00:29:16] I hope.

[00:29:18] With my just for my own kind of personal history and experience,

[00:29:23] I absolutely see that as kind of the first layer

[00:29:27] to be able to surface these basic things just so that people have

[00:29:32] the information and kind of know where they're sitting on a scale

[00:29:35] between them and everyone else.

[00:29:37] The the biggest piece that I do not have a solution for

[00:29:42] is the change.

[00:29:47] Yeah, when it comes to your own personal health care journey

[00:29:51] and that's kind of the incentive to change the motivation

[00:29:56] and the discipline to consistently stay on that train.

[00:30:00] You know, I've even faltered many times in my own in my own mind.

[00:30:03] Yeah, go ahead. Exactly.

[00:30:05] And that is where I definitely see that there's possibly an

[00:30:11] opportunity there, but there's just two kind of massive forces.

[00:30:15] One is just like our biological DNA to be lazy.

[00:30:20] And

[00:30:25] and so that's the kind of two opposing forces where

[00:30:29] you just don't see the instant gratification, which our kind

[00:30:33] of culture expects with everything that they do now.

[00:30:37] Yeah. Matthew, what do you think that might look like?

[00:30:41] What do you think the AI?

[00:30:43] How does how does AI help me with that situation if I'm just being lazy?

[00:30:51] That's once again, I don't have the exact solution.

[00:30:55] I think it explains consequence.

[00:30:57] I mean, I think it does gives you a better idea, Ryan.

[00:31:00] If if if you were to say to somebody that smokes, let's say, say,

[00:31:05] hey, for every cigarette you smoke, here's what the data is saying right now.

[00:31:10] It shaves off five hours of your life.

[00:31:13] That cigarette, five hours of your life.

[00:31:16] OK, so you smoke a pack a day.

[00:31:18] Here's a black one. Right.

[00:31:20] Well, no, but see the thing is it can't it isn't just fear

[00:31:24] because that's the way we've operated forever.

[00:31:27] I don't like OK, do bad things.

[00:31:28] You're going to have bad things happen to you.

[00:31:31] Now, this is more it could be specific and personal to a person.

[00:31:35] Exactly. And with wearables,

[00:31:38] it can actually tell you in real time.

[00:31:40] So you can make some of those dots and it can actually say, hey,

[00:31:44] you know, stop drinking, you know, your liver is on overload right now.

[00:31:50] Stop drinking.

[00:31:51] Now, if you have real time data, you might be less have to be lazy.

[00:31:57] I totally agree.

[00:31:59] And I think I think the component there,

[00:32:02] if someone could actually build, there's like two things I'm seeing.

[00:32:07] One is exactly what you're talking about, William, is is not real time feedback.

[00:32:11] Lou, the the second one is if someone could nail the

[00:32:16] basically to be like based on your information,

[00:32:19] I can pick I know within a certain margin there when you're going to die.

[00:32:23] Yeah, your deaf clock.

[00:32:25] I want to go dark.

[00:32:27] No, no, I don't like.

[00:32:29] Do you ever see the show with the app countdown?

[00:32:33] Huh. Oh, you've got to watch it.

[00:32:35] My kids watched it and they don't go to sleep after that.

[00:32:38] Right. So the app tells you when you're going to die.

[00:32:41] And so when you do the app, it counts down.

[00:32:43] And so you know, like 33 hours, you're going to die.

[00:32:47] And it just you're less, you're less apt at that point to be lazy.

[00:32:50] Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:32:51] It's like, you know, you only have so much time on a planet,

[00:32:54] which we all know, but we know it vaguely. Exactly.

[00:32:58] Exactly. If it's pinpointed to you, not to people like you, like you,

[00:33:03] but to you, right?

[00:33:05] I don't think we waste as much time.

[00:33:07] I think the other unlock that I see is and you kind of see this,

[00:33:13] I forget the name of the company.

[00:33:15] They have it's basically a continuous glucose monitor.

[00:33:19] Right. And they're not

[00:33:20] beginning to use it towards like a fitness and wellness routine,

[00:33:23] because that's like the other piece.

[00:33:26] If that could actually analyze blood and there's no way in today's technology

[00:33:31] for something that small form factor to be able to provide that.

[00:33:34] Right.

[00:33:34] Between that, the environmental, your sleep, your diet, you all of that,

[00:33:40] you can get super accurate, especially with AI.

[00:33:43] Oh, yeah. I know.

[00:33:44] I still have a watch that monitors my the oxygen levels at night

[00:33:49] when I go to sleep.

[00:33:50] So when I wake up, it'll it'll tell me.

[00:33:52] It's like, I'll look down and it'll tell me exactly my REM sleep

[00:33:56] and all this stuff.

[00:33:57] It'll tell me and the next iteration of that

[00:34:01] what a watch actually has a record to where you can hear

[00:34:06] like you're snoring or whatever, let's say or not,

[00:34:08] you're having problems with sleep.

[00:34:10] It'll actually record it for you if you want it to.

[00:34:12] Doesn't do anything.

[00:34:13] It doesn't.

[00:34:14] It doesn't want it to.

[00:34:15] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:16] I'm I'm excited.

[00:34:17] I'm excited to learn about that because again, sleep is so important to health.

[00:34:22] Yeah. And we don't talk about it in school.

[00:34:24] We don't talk about college.

[00:34:25] We don't talk about it at work.

[00:34:26] Like, Ryan's been on me because he he does.

[00:34:30] He's gotten healthier over the last year.

[00:34:32] And some of that is just pure.

[00:34:34] He has a routine sleep.

[00:34:36] Yeah. I mean, it's I hate it because I'm such the guy

[00:34:41] that's always like looking for the new edge, the new hack.

[00:34:43] Oh, yeah.

[00:34:44] The reality is the 80 20 here is very simple.

[00:34:49] It's sleep, diet and exercise.

[00:34:52] It's simply. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:54] If you can knock those three out and have that and then

[00:34:57] then you have a long and healthy life.

[00:35:00] 100 percent.

[00:35:01] 100 percent. I went and got the mask, the seabed.

[00:35:04] Yeah.

[00:35:05] And I mean, I'll tell you, I mean, I go seven to eight hours every night now.

[00:35:11] And within a few minutes, I'm I'm knocked out.

[00:35:14] I'm done for the night once I have it on.

[00:35:18] Best sleep in my life.

[00:35:19] I can't sleep without it anymore.

[00:35:21] That's awesome.

[00:35:22] Neither can my wife because she actually sleep.

[00:35:27] I mean, I'm Darth Vader for some reason.

[00:35:31] I don't have bruises anymore.

[00:35:32] Like it's all good. Yeah.

[00:35:35] That's funny.

[00:35:36] So one question is, is how do people thrive around you?

[00:35:41] Like what type of leader are you at your core?

[00:35:44] Like, what do you what do you like to surround yourself with?

[00:35:48] Can you maybe explain a little bit deeper in regards to that?

[00:35:52] I'll give you an example from me.

[00:35:54] I like people that are really passionate, really ambitious,

[00:35:58] they're really smart and they don't take my words for they don't take my words as

[00:36:04] gospel, so they'll parse my words or they'll throw it back in my face

[00:36:10] and say, yeah, I don't agree with that at all.

[00:36:12] Like I like contrarians.

[00:36:14] And so I thrive around contrarians, people that actually say, yeah, that sucks

[00:36:19] because it gets me to reevaluate.

[00:36:24] They go, yeah, that actually sucks.

[00:36:25] That's fair. Yeah, you're right.

[00:36:27] My bad. But sometimes you have to let him just go with the idea

[00:36:32] just from experience.

[00:36:34] So if you ever work with this guy, sometimes

[00:36:37] he just got to go with it and come to his own conclusions.

[00:36:40] That is a good point.

[00:36:41] That is a good point.

[00:36:43] That is a good point.

[00:36:43] But so who thrives around you?

[00:36:46] The people I would actually kind of turn that question and say,

[00:36:50] like, where do I thrive?

[00:36:51] And like, who are the people I thrive with is very similarly in.

[00:36:56] I love being with people that that have really kind of honed their craft

[00:37:01] to a certain level of expertise.

[00:37:04] And it just the and being able to see them operate at that like mastery

[00:37:11] level, that is something that I definitely get energy from.

[00:37:16] And I love saying that and just the people that are just constantly

[00:37:19] kind of grinding that act.

[00:37:22] They're like, and the other one is very similarly.

[00:37:27] Like, I like people that can kind of push against what I'm saying.

[00:37:32] Right.

[00:37:33] In the form of like with logic.

[00:37:35] It was 100% 100%.

[00:37:38] And the emotional argument goes nowhere with me.

[00:37:40] Exactly. Exactly.

[00:37:42] And yeah, that's definitely people I definitely try to surround myself

[00:37:46] with and have that expertise and that craft and that mastery.

[00:37:51] And then, yeah, and that's where I get a lot of energy.

[00:37:54] And also people that are just wildly curious,

[00:37:56] because I'm just wildly, wildly curious at all times.

[00:38:00] Curiosity, I think is kind of the thread for me.

[00:38:04] I need someone who's direct, curious, and that could just kind of give it to me.

[00:38:10] Like William always says, how do you like your feedback?

[00:38:13] I just like the feedback.

[00:38:15] Like, I don't need the story.

[00:38:19] I don't need to be let down easily.

[00:38:21] I just want to know it, right?

[00:38:23] Just kind of curious about.

[00:38:28] And sometimes this question sounds kind of standard, but I'm really,

[00:38:32] I'm really fascinated by habits of successful people.

[00:38:36] So not like, you know, the seven habits of highly successful people,

[00:38:41] things like that.

[00:38:42] But really, but like what?

[00:38:45] You got here for a reason.

[00:38:47] Yeah, you got here for a reason, right?

[00:38:48] And so really, like, what was it?

[00:38:51] What's the habits today that keeps you successful?

[00:38:55] But what was the one who wants?

[00:38:57] What were some of the habits historically

[00:39:00] that have kept you from being successful?

[00:39:03] No, that's a great question.

[00:39:05] One of the habits, I believe that's really kind of helped me be successful.

[00:39:11] And it's just so plain, but I wake up really early.

[00:39:14] Like, yeah, typically I'm waking up somewhere between like three and four a.m.

[00:39:21] And that's especially now with kids.

[00:39:23] It's just like the peace and quiet and kind of have the head down time

[00:39:27] to go deep into work.

[00:39:30] That is definitely that plus, you know, getting into the job.

[00:39:33] And then that would probably be one of the most consistent habits

[00:39:38] I've had for probably 20 years.

[00:39:40] Those two right there.

[00:39:42] Right.

[00:39:43] The one of the habits that have actually really

[00:39:48] strained my growth early, early on was just I used to have this mantra

[00:39:52] of kind of lone wolf.

[00:39:54] Right.

[00:39:55] And like, I can figure out all the things that I've done

[00:39:58] and I can figure out what I've done.

[00:40:00] Kind of lone wolf.

[00:40:01] Right.

[00:40:02] Like I can figure it all out on my own.

[00:40:04] I don't need to network.

[00:40:06] I don't need to like do any of this fancy BS and you still don't

[00:40:11] need to do a lot of fancy BS, but the reality is

[00:40:17] it's true.

[00:40:18] The the I've kind of thought about this deeply and, you know,

[00:40:23] we've gone through as an organization, especially my partners and I.

[00:40:28] So many like death valley lows where we're at the cutting edge

[00:40:33] of not being able to payroll.

[00:40:36] And I kind of wonder, like, but somehow we always come out swinging

[00:40:41] and obviously a big piece of that resilience.

[00:40:45] But another piece I've really thought about this is really it's

[00:40:48] our ability at that point in time to kind of generate a lot.

[00:40:53] And when I mean by that is typically when you're like an executive

[00:41:00] or especially when you're a small organization, you're kind of

[00:41:02] still heads down.

[00:41:03] You're still in the day to day.

[00:41:05] But only in these moments of like almost share certain death

[00:41:10] without something spectacular happening.

[00:41:12] Do you kind of start really branching out and kind of what

[00:41:15] I would say is like increasing your luck surface area?

[00:41:19] And that's what's happened every time again.

[00:41:22] I'm kind of really reflected in like, man, that was the only time

[00:41:25] I like went to the conference and met with these people and did

[00:41:28] these things and made these phone calls.

[00:41:31] And that is something now that I've seen a lot of value in

[00:41:35] and trying to maintain kind of keeping that luck surface area large.

[00:41:42] I love that. What a great answer.

[00:41:44] I mean, absolutely great answer.

[00:41:46] So it's similar vein, but advice you'd give your high school self.

[00:41:52] So what would you tell yourself now?

[00:41:54] Things that you've learned along the way and kind of make that

[00:41:58] person a little bit more resilient or make the person just kind

[00:42:02] of get it faster.

[00:42:04] Yeah.

[00:42:05] Hack would you give them?

[00:42:07] I mean, the first hack would just be like go into technology

[00:42:12] much sooner and understand the power of innovation and how

[00:42:19] what type of value creation and capture that can be created there.

[00:42:23] Second one is courage, have much more courage.

[00:42:27] And even though a lot of people look at me and what I've done

[00:42:30] is having a very high risk tolerance, there's still I think

[00:42:34] a lot of self insecurity at that young age as to what to do.

[00:42:38] So worried about what everyone else was thinking and not being

[00:42:41] as successful as my friends.

[00:42:43] And I think the third piece would definitely be around

[00:42:48] like understand that there is a lot more to this world

[00:42:51] than just making some dollars and like finding a pursuit

[00:42:55] of purpose and passion will carry you so much further

[00:42:59] to provide so much more fulfillment.

[00:43:01] And that's I wish I learned that 20 years ago.

[00:43:06] Matthew, this has been fantastic.

[00:43:09] Great conversation.

[00:43:10] You're 100% is inspiring from living in your car to being

[00:43:15] where you are today and on your way.

[00:43:17] So we thought, hey, we think you did really well.

[00:43:23] That's how you're awesome.

[00:43:24] Thank you for coming on through.

[00:43:26] Oh, this was great.

[00:43:27] Thank you guys so much.

[00:43:28] And like thanks for bringing on the newbie.

[00:43:31] Oh.