HR & Payroll Tech Marketplace News & Updates (Summer 2024) with Special Guest Brad Collins

[00:00:07] I'm Pete Tilliocus and as always, I'm joined by the legendary Julie Fernandez. Welcome Julie. Thanks so much, Pete. I can't believe how long it's been since we've done news and we've got a special guest for news today.

[00:00:21] Yes, yes, very excited to have my good friend and an executive in this space that I respect highly Brad Collins, the CEO of Data Scally Jar. So welcome, Brad. Hey, thank you, Julie and Pete.

[00:00:34] Huge fan of the pot is you know and been looking forward to this so thanks for having me. I'm here. Yeah, yeah, I would love to get your opinions on some of these things and I know you do a lot of

[00:00:43] sleuthing around the industry and staying close to what's growing and what's new. So yeah, I'm excited to get into it. We got a lot here to get into and I saw some great data this week. I don't know if you guys saw it.

[00:00:54] I wish I would have brought it. I think investments in the space are hitting some returning to some of their records that it was a few years ago, things could kind of stall a little bit.

[00:01:04] So it looks like work tech related investments are really peaking back up and yeah that's always exciting. Right? There's a lot of cool stuff being built out there. All right, get us kicked off Pete.

[00:01:16] You always are you're so good at like kind of having the bulletin list of things that are going on time to time. So yeah, we're going to be all over the place here today.

[00:01:24] We're going to be talking a little bit of HCM, a little bit of payroll, a little bit of thin tech. That's some EOR. And yeah, so we got a lot to do. So let's get started right?

[00:01:33] So one of the key announcements that's recently happened was the acquisition of Walkme by SAP. So big shout out to Dan Adica and his team at Walkme. I've been working with those guys for for, well, at least five years tracking them,

[00:01:50] staying in close to them and had the opportunity to go to their event in New York City and May. And so I think this is huge, man. It valued them. I think at 1.5 billion, which is really impressive.

[00:02:00] And if you're not familiar with Walkme, they are a digital adoption platform. I would say they might have somewhat even created the category, right? And what they do is they are probably going to, I'm probably going to undersell this,

[00:02:14] but it's think of it as almost like an overlay over anything that you are leveraging in your workplace or anywhere, right? Any sort of software. You think about, we've seen statistics on how many solutions people are having to work with in the workplace, right?

[00:02:29] It's like an average of 15 I think. So these guys can come in and lay on that. And really, if you ever look at the way they're, their solution works, it actually spot lights.

[00:02:42] In the moment kind of shades the rest of the screen and takes you exactly the where you need to click at any given point in any process or any sort of,

[00:02:51] you know, application. So when you think about all of the things we're throwing in employees and we're throwing in the workplace, it's confusing, right? And we've got a lot of different generations that have different attachments to technology.

[00:03:03] So I think that just the digital adoption capability here is going to be really, really helpful. And I'm excited to see what SAP is going to do with it. I think it's going to play probably hopefully play a good role over in success factors,

[00:03:17] and I think it's going to be a really interesting differentiator for their solutions. So yeah, really cool stuff there. Hey Pete, so tell me, you know, digital adoption, you're describing that as a separate category.

[00:03:29] And yet I think a lot of folks might listen to the description of what Walk Me doesn't think, okay, another experience and engagement platform. Yeah, exactly right? But what they actually do is I would say it goes a bit deeper, right?

[00:03:41] I'm not so much about that. It's more about, and I'm actually going to read this direct from there just to quote them, right?

[00:03:46] DAP works on top of an organization's application, landscape, and detects where people encounter friction and provides tailored support and automation they need to complete the job done to get the job done right in the flow of work.

[00:03:59] So in other words, it's really about it's almost really a learning solution if you think about it in some ways, right?

[00:04:05] It's teaching you where to go to get the right answer and the right click for what you're trying to accomplish. So if you think about it, it's almost like someone moving the mouse for you holding your hand and kind of taking you to where to go.

[00:04:16] And I think that's huge, right? Because you think about your right there's so many platforms and experiences. This is really going to be able to give people the ability to make them experts at a solution without having to be in.

[00:04:30] So like training wheels in some ways, I think. Thank you for that. I thought it was, yeah, I thought it was interesting to find out. I don't know if you guys know this or not.

[00:04:39] When I went to the Cornerstone event cornerstone on demand, they actually own a digital adoption platform solution as well. They acquired one a while back.

[00:04:49] And we were talking about the just the capability that that could or the unique capability that could provide when you think about all the learning capabilities that they offer.

[00:04:58] That that sort of nestles in nicely and they're offering. So I think you're going to see more of this, especially when, you know, one of the things walk me was talking about was like just take for example.

[00:05:09] Maybe Brad, this is going to be really right up your alley here. I think you know take for example AI right like right now when you use co pilot and I've seen you tweet about it. So I know you do.

[00:05:19] We don't all prompt the same right we don't all have the same skill level at prompting so one of the things that I know walk me has is sort of pre configured prompts that make everyone sort of a AI expert right so that you're not having to go in there and recreate a prompt for something that a use case that someone else may have already saw.

[00:05:38] So I think that's, that's really cool right to kind of augment people as we get better and better with AI and more skilled so yeah lots of, lots of opportunity here for transformation.

[00:05:48] Yeah, I mean I like it a lot. I mean I was I was looking at that too and the walk me website they have a specifically use cases around adopting AI and so I mean look at its well position in the market today right I mean automating workflows adopting AI digitization in general right our key theme.

[00:06:07] And so this is really you know great addition for SAP's business transformation business. Yeah, makes a lot of sense for them.

[00:06:16] Yeah and Julie you think about like transformation you know you're putting in these these solutions you're spending a lot of money on these capabilities and oftentimes they're under sometimes they are underwhelming if people can't use them effectively. So I think I think walk me.

[00:06:30] Is giving people the ability to maximize their effectiveness of their people in these new environments and with these systems so just what we need it. Yeah, make sense to go to an enterprise. We just totally needed another category of HR tech.

[00:06:42] You know, great, great, great, great, great but look it's been here a while so it was not really new now it's new, new, new by them.

[00:06:53] But you know if you think about just all of this right I mean we have so much getting thrown at us now it's it is a lot and I think it is going to be important that companies get the most out of those solutions and I think that's what walk me is really about so I'm excited for them.

[00:07:10] I'm excited for them. I'm excited for them. Yeah, let's move on to the next. I think we've alluded to chime in and our friend is in Leah Salt Labs but I think that is at next on your list.

[00:07:20] Yeah, I was just going to say yeah, just a shout out. I think this news has been out there for a minute I guess it's the end of June but basically chime snapped up Salt Labs so that was quick right Jason just launched that last year we did a podcast with him.

[00:07:32] So I'm excited right and and if you're not familiar with Salt Labs Salt Labs was founded by Jason Lee the former founder and well I guess he is still the founder of Daily Pay who obviously is in the earned way,

[00:07:48] about pushing equity down to frontline workers and pushing more reward and engagement down to them through that.

[00:07:55] And so I think so when you think about it, you know you could imagine the frontline worker is often sort of left out of those conversations when it comes to you know to equity and that sort of thing.

[00:08:05] And I think what they're taking an approach here of it I think is pretty interesting is we're using sort of a think at air miles sky miles kind of frequent flyer sort of a thing where you're earning as you go based on things that you're doing already.

[00:08:18] And in this case it's employees working and the goal here is to really try and bring bring together that capability of employees to be rewarded more for the work that they're doing but also maybe give them something.

[00:08:31] You know equitable to leverage out of that rewards so I think it's exciting right FinTech FinTech's really cool I think it's it's a great equalizer for access to money and I just love what Jason's trying to do here and I think China's probably a great home to nurture all that.

[00:08:46] Yeah, can't wait to see where they go with it. Yeah, yeah, you know, interestingly Brad I don't know if you know this but I was Jason was telling me.

[00:08:54] Right before this they had added to their board of salt labs had dinner with them out in Nashville at the payroll work when we were there to me.

[00:09:04] They were telling me that they added this gentleman and I don't remember his name but he's actually the inventor if I'm not mistaken of 401k.

[00:09:12] Wow yeah, yeah, right and I can't remember what they called 401k back in the day it was very it's very counter intuitive I'm forgetting now but that's the kind of folks that are working the minds that are working with Jason on this so I think there's a lot of promise here a lot of excitement.

[00:09:27] Yeah, yeah, I mean like I'm with you I kind of like what I like is it's it's interesting to see a large finTech like time moving into this employee reward space right I mean.

[00:09:39] You know, trying to a big player they have a lot of funding so but be able to you know help and take this to a whole another level and reach which is really cool to see.

[00:09:49] Yeah, and didn't they make a bid if I'm not mistaken them correct me from wrong weren't they the ones that bid on try to try to buy daily pay if I'm not mistaken do you remember that.

[00:09:57] That's I yeah I do I do I I think he did about that but yes they did yeah. Yeah, yeah anyway so interesting but we'll see what's happening you know what happens with that I hope to see them.

[00:10:10] You know hope to see them nurture this and I think they will I think it fits really nice with what time's doing so I can tell you employers are doing more in this space as well so I've.

[00:10:20] I've been working with no less than three clients and just the recent probably four or five months who are interested in taking a fresh look at the rewards and recognition space so.

[00:10:31] So there's a bit of it there there's definitely some some tailwinds behind rethinking what's going on that space that devtails with everything that's happening in benefits with voluntary and navigation and just kind of some wellness sorts of things so it's it's become quite an active conversation.

[00:10:50] Yeah yeah absolutely and that gentleman by the name is Ted Bennah he was the sort of consider the father of the 401k concept so really really cool.

[00:11:02] Yeah alright let's let's move on to our good friends over at work day I was excited to see the sales force strategic partnership get highlighted yesterday or this week I should say.

[00:11:13] Where work day and sales force are going to get deeper together they're already very very intimate partners. You know work day is or sales force is a work day shop they use it's very public information they use it for both HCM and finance.

[00:11:28] You know look who doesn't use sales force in their business if they're a Vinnie size I think everywhere I've worked in the last 10 years had sales force. It's just it's just out there right it's everywhere and so this makes total sense and what they're doing is really.

[00:11:41] I would say bringing their integrations closer together but also bringing together their AI and that's going to deliver a lot more personalized. You know contextual AI solutions for the employee right so around onboarding maybe health benefits decision making career development.

[00:11:57] Any of that that's interchangeable back and forth between sales force and their day to day. And I also think it's interesting too that they're bringing together a you know obviously a common data foundation that will unify all their information with see it there HR finance data with.

[00:12:13] With CRM data so really interesting to see what happens here and of course they're also going to be integrating into that slack slack.

[00:12:20] And giving deeper automation for employees to be able to collaborate around all those things so I think this is totally makes sense and I think it's just another just another step in that marriage right they're just going going a little further together.

[00:12:32] So Pete just for a practitioner lens you know the first thing when when we were talking about the types of things that they'll be.

[00:12:39] Partnering on and looking at you know it's impossible not to think about it through the lens of okay so work that has journeys how does you know how does the a power to system for you know different use cases differ from using journeys right or as they're unifying the HCM or the CRM data.

[00:13:00] And you know like they in work day has the help module and so will they be integrally tied to each other so that you you know you need to have one in order to tap into the power of their combination or are do these become choices and play your choices and exactly how they're going to use work day versus the partnership versus other out third party tools and and partners right.

[00:13:26] It just makes everything is very complex in this space as far as piecing all the technology and service delivery together.

[00:13:32] And and I can see where you know this will be another layer of cool benefit but also some you know some depth of understanding that your average practitioner or HR leader won't have.

[00:13:45] Yeah, no that's a good point. We haven't had briefing on this yet I'm hoping to get more information but that's a that's an excellent point.

[00:13:52] I think you know I actually think this is sort of a step towards the orchestration sort of thing that we talk about right not everything is in the HCM not everything is in the finance system not everything is in the payroll system right you have to often use multiple tools that that don't.

[00:14:09] That that are necessary to do other processes that aren't focused purely on or directly HR finance right so I think that's where you know you're seeing the sort of HR systems and systems of work kind of bringing brought closer together with the systems that are business operations right and maybe that's some of this here is bridging that and bringing more of.

[00:14:30] An orchestration to to other systems talking to each other so yeah no good good great question right I mean I I'm curious to like how is this going to work is there any sort of an added skewed of this.

[00:14:41] We've got yeah I've got a lot of things I want to find out so we'll hopefully get it up to hear pretty soon from work day what do you think Brad in thoughts on this.

[00:14:48] Yeah, I mean I kind of shared Julie's thoughts it's some yeah a lot to digest there but. Yeah to your point on the orchestration I mean there's so many different components of sales force right they have a.

[00:15:00] One of their business units you will solve drive which really helps to orchestrate and make sure you can get data to the right systems around your organization so.

[00:15:10] You know assuming you know large enterprises can put these two systems together there's probably a lot you can you can do with it in terms of orchestrating data across the very systems you use and.

[00:15:22] You know the other piece that I really liked is the the slack integration as we know that's a primary place people like to work and so if they can put more of these workflows and things like that into slack it's better for the worker experience.

[00:15:40] Yeah absolutely I feel I find slack seems to be getting really deep everywhere it must be the go to yeah for most so yeah now I love it I think these are the things you're going to see more of right work days talked about getting deeper with partners.

[00:15:51] You know doing more collaboration and co innovation with their partners especially even in and we've talked a lot about the payroll stuff. So yeah lots going on here I think this is just you know and I was curable finding you know how much of this might have been.

[00:16:06] Born out of the use cases both organizations using each other's products so intimately wanted for their own.

[00:16:13] That's right so I have to believe there's been some beta here I know there has and I'd love to just get the details on how they kind of came with that with the road maps going to look like for the acts I think there's a lot of use cases you could find between.

[00:16:24] I think upon how companies using Salesforce and the work day in HCM finance modules. Hey and we're not done talking about our friends at work dairy.

[00:16:33] No no I wanted to yeah I saw that they did I don't know if you saw this but late June they had a very large they they've listed it as a.

[00:16:41] A prominent US federal agency with an international mission and global workforce has gone live on the work day government cloud so if you know what work day has been doing in the last I'd say a couple of years here they've really been prepping themselves for the federal space the government space.

[00:16:56] And that is a tricky world tricky world. And it's somewhere where I know they've done well with the education sector I know there are smaller government agencies around the country those state locals that have it.

[00:17:08] But this is a big push for them I think and it's sort of shows all the efforts that they've put into getting certified as a as a contractor. I can't remember what they call that. And then of course building out their SIs that can handle this so.

[00:17:20] This was something they deal with groundswell and I think you're going to see a lot more of this coming. Yeah yeah the the the the the the the the sort of sort of sort of sort of.

[00:17:28] That's right I mean really hard to get I mean you have to you know only a solution like a modern solution that's highly secure like that can can go after that so.

[00:17:37] I mean you have to take a lot of boxes to be a tier one government supplier so I'm walking that market for them is that's going to be huge.

[00:17:44] Yeah yeah I was going to say it's got to help a lot with some there were some notable early adopters of work day that we're government contractors in their own right you know.

[00:17:53] And they were there was always some noise there just because it is not an easy net to crack and so I'm sure they've learned over the years and and had great opportunity just to pull that all together and figure out how to actually make that.

[00:18:08] Work better scale better. Be less noisy and be more successful. Yeah and get and you know get into competition with their peers right SAP and Oracle who are already probably doing quite well there I would say.

[00:18:21] And yeah I look I've I had the pleasure of talking to I think it was the FBI out in California about how they've approached their stack if you will now they couldn't tell me a lot about it as you can imagine.

[00:18:34] But what I understood from it was it is a mix of commercial and. The proprietary solutions they did you I think he did tell me they use a commercial core HR system but then maybe some other proprietary things and interestingly a mix of public and private cloud so.

[00:18:55] That's another thing I think has always been sort of tricky with the government folks right is the cloud sort of infrastructure and how that works for security and all that stuff so.

[00:19:04] Yeah this is tricky stuff tricky stuff so we're I'm excited to see what they do and and I think it's going to be good for their partners as well.

[00:19:10] So all right moving on let's talk day force you guys and we're about by the way I think next week with the analyst have an update on.

[00:19:19] On global payroll so I think we're going to get a little bit more there but I do know they launched they've now launched into Singapore so there's a native day force engine for Singapore and I cannot recall how many they're up to now depending upon how you count them between what they've done natively.

[00:19:33] And what they've done what they've done acquired through what Adam. Sender and Excelty so yeah they're forging right ahead right just continuing on in their path to world dominance and building up their native engines.

[00:19:48] And just remember it's it's as important if not more important to which ones are native day force versus which ones are through their.

[00:19:57] Yes, yeah and they're acquired partner network because it just in nature the beast the delivery model works a little bit differently right when you start talking about anybody's product across the globe.

[00:20:07] Yeah yeah it's a great point Julie because yeah I was I was you know when I saw the news I was wondering the same thing right because they they acquired Excelty on me four years ago right which was a Singapore engine right.

[00:20:20] So they must have been working on this this native engine since then and just kind of goes to show you how long these types of things can take right.

[00:20:28] Yeah yeah, I remember one time David also told us it takes them about 18 months to prepare a native engine and I want to say they're in the dozens at this point if you count the ones they built themselves now I'm sure you could you know now that they'd probably reap what they have replat form the other items from the others from the other solutions they bought.

[00:20:49] But but either way I think they've done a really really good job with their data model the way they've set their data model up in the structure and they were always very rich.

[00:20:58] And strong on that core side right what I would say, courage our payroll time and it's certainly benefits and I think they've really bolster that and their global you know global ambitions are quite aggressive and they've they've stuck to it so.

[00:21:11] The other thing I thought was cool and Brad I don't know if you saw this but we got to check out day force.

[00:21:17] Flexwork which is really a marketplace platform for managing gig workers and managing flex flex scheduling and that sort of thing and I think it's really interesting nice pairing right beautiful pairing with that global period of stability so.

[00:21:33] Yeah, yeah with the increase in contingent workers you know for many many reasons right skills all kinds of reasons agility I think it's perfectly timed maybe a little bit overdue but I love it and I think that's just a perfect.

[00:21:50] You know just a perfect way for people to curate their town pools and and ultimately pay them right in platform so.

[00:21:56] It's going to say some of the key to that for me is just going to be is that is that targeting you know smaller and growing to scale first or is it really built you know robust and complex for.

[00:22:07] For scale and then it becomes a challenge to start out dot market right I mean there's just no way to build it both ways really great from the get go so I'll be anxious to see what we have saved our own.

[00:22:21] I'm a huge fan of unlocking the contingent workforce and that the concept of total talent bringing these together and you know work work days acquisition of Vendley was obviously a major step in this direction as well so it's.

[00:22:34] It was you know it's good to see day poor slunching something here. You know it's just great to see the solutions coming together to make it easier for clients to basically tap into any type of talent yeah yeah agreed.

[00:22:47] Yeah, and it and that's the cool here right I think it's an on demand marketplace but what I also would add is that it also supports background checks onboarding in payroll right so you've got kind of that one stop shop which I think is really cool which most of the EORs are trying to build towards as well right so.

[00:23:01] It's kind of like it's right you see I'm coming the other way you know so I love it that's right all right so let's stay a stay in that world right we'll stay in the global world globalization partners has introduced some more AI I know you know them well Brad.

[00:23:15] They brought a bit more AI powered onboarding into their compliance capabilities and also more contextual compliance insights in real time so.

[00:23:25] Again, just really trying to support I think what I see a lot of the EORs doing is is this right really trying to help people make really effective decision making at the hiring point at the onboarding point.

[00:23:36] A lot of modeling is being provided a lot of what if scenarios giving people the ability to figure out what makes the most sense in their hiring decisions so. I think this is you know makes total sense.

[00:23:47] Yeah, I watched the video on it with really solid and it's interesting because going back to the beginning of our discussion on what walk me is doing.

[00:23:54] I mean they've effectively layered in functionality like walk me to their onboarding experience and so you know I think these players like globalization partners and some of the others that have been around for a while like they're in a great position to leverage.

[00:24:09] Gen AI for these use cases they have a lot of knowledge that's put together over the decade or more right so it's a really smart use case for for AI in the work flow.

[00:24:22] Yeah, agreed yeah I think there's a huge value in not just the risk avoidance of EOR and the speed and agility and all that.

[00:24:29] But the data and insight you're right that they have and just the ability to help you make good decisions about you know the future of your business in that country or operating around those regions is just great and and the more that they can bubble that up and give you the chance to act on that in the flow I think is what they're going for here.

[00:24:47] Yep. All righty so let's stay in the EOR world man deal deal God there are savages right like I swear I love these guys man every time I turn around there's just a pile of new updates coming from them and it just does not stop.

[00:25:00] So recently obviously the big big news was they bought their partner hofy hoffy I can't remember how you say that which is going to give them the ability to round out their offering with some IT provisioning services.

[00:25:12] Hopefully and and deal we're already working together they were key partners as it were so that's what now the second acquisition in maybe four months or so right they bought savvy the learning development solution.

[00:25:25] So yeah let's go in on a deal man and just I mean AI everywhere coming about they've got a new policy advice report they've launched now physical deal cards.

[00:25:37] Paek of these master card back cards in 20 different countries of course we've got the pay space acquisition that happened and we just so much going on over at deal man it's definitely definitely turning heads I think capital investment you know.

[00:25:51] Yeah, yeah in point what would you would you want to apply on what you think their valuation is now I mean what were they that about 13 billion I think at the end of 23 or so 20 or around 23.

[00:26:04] Yeah, I mean it's a it's a great question I mean like look they're they are obviously unflinching in their strategy and not afraid to move fast which is yeah as a former M&A person I that's fun for me to watch that I mean they make really smart bivers build decisions right you know pay space giving them some parallel engines.

[00:26:29] Paper right which was a last year also a parallel engines and then savvy getting them more into the core HR so I mean they're building out.

[00:26:39] Now a lot of components internally but they're also you know using M&A in a smart way to build out their their global HCM capabilities so I like it a lot in terms of the valuation.

[00:26:51] You know it's tough I'm actually kind of mixed on the payroll engines specifically so like how much value does a pay space add to the enterprise value of deal.

[00:27:04] I don't know you know that acquisition was reported to be around a hundred million dollars and the hop the acquisition was reported to be around a hundred million dollars so.

[00:27:15] You know relatively small compared to to deal with own valuation right yeah and you could you can actually today pick up shares of deal on the secondary market for lower valuations than their last really.

[00:27:30] You know primary deal so yeah interesting interesting yeah look I like what they're doing man I think someone had to start innovating and leading in this in this in this sector right I just feel like there was a lot of so what with the tech that was out there.

[00:27:47] And I think deal is being very aggressive you know I kind of wonder can do you think a EOR can get too big I mean does it become one wheelie just given the the the the levity of what you have to really manage I mean I don't know.

[00:28:02] I don't know I mean I think look like realistically like especially with hoppy I mean look I used to see this is this was a big ask for clients right when they're hiring people and other markets.

[00:28:15] You would be surprised how hard it is to get a computer to a worker in just Mexico right yeah so so if you could make that a really good experience for clients as they're onboarding you know it's not it's not the EOR per se but it's all the stuff that goes around at the peripheral components and there's a lot of stuff around it.

[00:28:37] Yeah I like it I like their kind of global HCM strategy for for SMBs there's really I mean few few players that are out there that have that where you could go as a hundred person company and have deal be your one stop shop for everything.

[00:28:55] Yeah I see a little you know as usual my my lens usually.

[00:29:00] Reflect some of the confusion for buyers in the market and you know are you any OR you've picked up some global parallel engines you know folks already don't understand many times what kind of the difference is in those two models and and then when you just kind of try to play.

[00:29:18] You know seamlessly across them that there's so much potential for increased confusion and and you know it's great to have your leg logo top of mind but.

[00:29:29] Top of mind and not exactly sure in what capacity or which competitors because you don't know exactly where where your focus is you know I don't know if you guys are seeing that as problematic but.

[00:29:41] Well maybe I can take this because I I in full disclosure deal is an advisory client of mine and I can tell you they are aggressively attacking the global parallel space and they 100% expect to come up market with that pace base was a big part of that.

[00:29:55] And so you know when you think about I just went through this with one of my.

[00:29:59] HCM clients who's looking at there's strategic go to market for global capability and one of the things it was key to them was providers that can provide both a native EOR and global payroll capability and when you when you ask for that there's very few that are left on the table.

[00:30:16] Very few right you're talking maybe deal possibly remote remote trying to build it. Neon already has it they just switched on EOR pretty much they already had it EOR they just weren't doing it.

[00:30:27] They turned that on right on top of what they were doing so there's not a lot of folks that can really claim to be able to do both.

[00:30:34] And so I think this is this is where they they want to go and I think what they see is the opportunity to be that one stop shops so that they can keep people in their walls and there's not that loss of.

[00:30:43] Of organizations as they develop and grow so the dangers being able to be well and also being able to differentiate it so there is some clarity. What you're getting and when and. Okay, it's tricky to say right.

[00:30:57] It is that's what's the same as they're waiting to get too big in this space maybe you know. Yeah I thought a good point to because especially with pace base and that their strategy for global payroll which is is really selling up market right.

[00:31:11] The rest of the portfolio that they have is largely geared towards that some SMBs so you know how will they kind of manage that with the different sort of types of buyers going forward that'll be kind of interesting to see.

[00:31:24] Yeah and you know I think pay Asia was before pace base right and so I don't know if I'm right or I do have.

[00:31:32] Yeah so I think they've been a little bit upwards of SMB and to be honest there's been so much else that they're tackling I'm really not sure you know how they've walked that line, you know, and going up market and swimming up market but maybe that would be a place to look because they've had them for a couple years now at least.

[00:31:49] Yeah yeah totally yeah I mean look it's not going to be I don't think they're going to pull up market overnight but I do believe they are or I know they are you know aiming for that eventually so that I think that will gradually happen.

[00:32:00] to get calls right and I've given that feedback before like you know any of you in the AR space that are trying to crawl up market you're going to have to show that you can handle these types of customers right volume and complexity so.

[00:32:11] Yeah it's going to be interesting yeah yeah we'll see. Yeah I was interesting yeah I was ideally right like on the page of pay group I mean even for the calls people like they've.

[00:32:21] They've started to repurpose the qualifications from pay group and pay space into deal calls right and so they're very very smart on the marketing about.

[00:32:31] Yeah and keep in mind look, pay space was an existing workday partner so guess what deal is now one of the only pure play EORs that original pure play EORs that actually has a workday integration and is sitting inside their walls right so.

[00:32:48] Yeah they're they're they're part and record system so it's guys the limit here I think it's going to be exciting again I think that the message is there's loud and navigation a lot of inside ball in these you know and some of it that becomes part and parcel of some of these providers and it's very hard to know and stay on top of it all.

[00:33:04] Yeah agreed agreed so just before we leave you are Brad thoughts on any IPOs next year you think we'll see a couple I think could maybe maybe you're a year after. You know don't worry about cover rise again even Brad just fit it all out.

[00:33:19] You don't say names but do you think do you think anyone you think you will see some IPOs next year I wish I had the crystal ball I mean it's.

[00:33:28] I mean it's it's definitely possible you see a company like deal I mean look they I know they were sitting on a lot of cash from the last capital raises and that they they reported to be profitable but.

[00:33:40] Now they've done a couple of acquisitions here that have each been a hundred million dollars and if those were largely cash like you know they'd have a they'd have a good reason for going out to the to the IPO market for for financing so.

[00:33:54] Yeah it's potentially see them there's obviously others that are at the scale will say you know above a hundred million of they are the makes sense that they could go out maybe.

[00:34:05] Yeah like a GP would would fit that and there's some others that are that are getting up there but you know I would say deal in reporting to the have almost scale right for that yeah yeah yeah and I think that hofy acquisition I hope I'm saying that right coffee hofy.

[00:34:21] I think that's a bit of a counter as well to to what Rippling was doing also Rex they had a same sort of capability so I think that gives them some defense against that to and adds more value right for their customers so.

[00:34:33] Yeah very good very good all right let's move on into global payroll Julie last week we had an update from the new brand over at what we were calling new code there's been off of a light it is now going to be.

[00:34:46] We did strata right strata like I think it's strata my. Stratics use me. Oh, I'm not that strata.

[00:34:55] Strata slowly and fast or rude right yeah yeah yeah so look I it's exciting right I actually think we've talked about this a little bit but you know they found a new home.

[00:35:07] I've been very vocal about the fact that I don't think a light ever cared or even understood that business that in G.A. had and the and the really the rich rich industry leading capabilities that they had.

[00:35:17] From a global payroll perspective from an SI perspective the workday practice I mean just all of it right so. This is the chance right I mean.

[00:35:25] Yeah this is the chance new star new owner maybe some new investment will see and I'm hoping that they're going to do well.

[00:35:32] Yeah I've seen just some fun you know fun facts around the name because I've been poking a little bit around that and and then we're multiple rumors before it was announced.

[00:35:42] That they'd done a little bit of gamification with the colleagues you know trying to get folks inside of the company to you know guests or get you know kind of just involved in enthusiastic about that and like doubt some clues little by little to see if anybody could imagine it and then just even.

[00:36:00] You know the color whenever new brand comes out it's intriguing right people want to know what what's the inside around that and and going with a green you know just being less busy when you think about all the competitors that are out there.

[00:36:14] I know that was a consideration it also seemed to embody some of these they had buckets behind the scenes of kind of major categories or associations that they wanted to make with a new entity like harmony or.

[00:36:28] You know human centricity and guidance a growth and they just you know they really felt like they checked multiple buckets not only with a logo showing kind of motion but also with the green color palette where nobody really owns that today and the payroll space is amazing because you know money green right who wouldn't you know think.

[00:36:48] That that would be a great color palette to be using. And and no specific implications around ESG were baked into that at least for my sources right. Yeah I don't know. I'm getting more money.

[00:37:04] Yeah yeah yeah yeah congrats to Georgia Sherman who's over there coming over from the the legacy company and been there forever I think a long time and she's helped lead some of that marketing so they did a great job.

[00:37:17] That new branding it is a very rich green isn't it very money.

[00:37:21] But you know that I think it's important to note one of the things I asked on the call was what happens with work life right the technology how how does all that work well all the proprietary tech is going with them all of the capabilities in terms of their SI their work day practice their.

[00:37:37] Oracle practice and of course they also have capability with cornerstone and I believe UK G and I think they could do Oracle if they wanted they don't normally lean into it too much.

[00:37:45] But more importantly I think it's important to point out that not just the SI but the management services and including the benefits administration for work day and I would assume SAP as well.

[00:37:56] So the very advanced DB DC stuff and 401k stays behind at a light, but the work day practice entirely goes with them and so does their management services so that's going to be that's to me that's all the best parts of a light.

[00:38:09] And it's it's a really formidable capability that's 30 plus years old and in experience right and as you as you might imagine given we're here in Pomeran our company sits do on both benefit sides and then they share the hero side.

[00:38:23] We were working with a lot of large clients right now who are trying to understand how some of those things are split and also doing some of their contract assignments and those sorts of things and so.

[00:38:33] You know folks listeners regular listeners might know I've blogged about that back in April with quite a bit of detail around some of the split so.

[00:38:41] Maybe we can repost that with this episode and and anybody who needs a little bit more drill down yeah I'm actively working more than a handful of clients right now through the nuances so you know just reach out and let me know and I'm more than happy.

[00:38:56] Yeah, yeah that's right let me send me that link let's make sure we get it into the description.

[00:39:01] And and we're going to have Frank licener one of their executive VPs coming on to talk about actually we're going to extend our conversation from the payroll org executive conference that we did executive summit.

[00:39:14] And yeah, maybe we can ask some questions about strata and just see what they're doing when he's on so I'm excited to have a next episode of share action. I'm going to say. Look for that. Yeah, very cool.

[00:39:26] All right, last couple here we've got interestingly I saw the the last week papaya global launched a new payroll and payments academy and I think that has something like 50 or so.

[00:39:38] I can't remember how many it was quite a few learning modules that are in there that are going to be designed to help the practitioner learn or the leader understand and learn. payroll operations right payroll performance payroll payroll you know management if you will so.

[00:39:54] Really interesting right there's now some investment coming in by vendors to help people educate themselves because it is complex and it is.

[00:40:02] And it's a very, very, very, very, very, very challenging and there's a lot of new answers to this so I think that's kind of cool obviously I would say it's probably a marketing thing as well but but certainly.

[00:40:12] Unique right something new and different in the marketplace where they're trying to make a make a. And I don't know if you recall that I had a UK client mostly last year large parts of last year that was deploying.

[00:40:24] Pappa global along with a payroll delivery one of the one of the accounting firms right that was doing some of the services but many folks might not know there's a couple of different ways that probably global can solution that with or without the underlying services and so.

[00:40:42] And then chance yet to poke around in there and their payroll payments academy but it'll be interesting to see how they've addressed the learning that somebody who's mostly tapping into them as that.

[00:40:54] Middle I don't know, I'm a middleware that's a horrible sounding name but you know as the tool that the glue that hangs it all together versus maybe a more robust delivery model and how do they care for that and their academy materials so.

[00:41:09] Stay tuned because I'll be looking to that and trying to find out just how they just how they decided to approach that. Yeah, I wonder if they'll integrate any of that into their platform to like learning in the flow kind of thing.

[00:41:21] Yeah, that would be kind of interesting I think there's a lot of that going on I know obviously cornerstones heavy into that and most of the HCMs are offering some some sort of capability like that in their.

[00:41:30] Yeah well step one right and mean like you have to have it before you can incorporate it so. Got to have the content yeah that's exactly why cornerstone.

[00:41:40] Bob Grove a years ago right to get that to get that media capability to develop their content because content is king when you think about you know there's plenty of platforms but he's got the actual.

[00:41:48] Exactly stuff did I just through it so yeah, no I think it's a good thing right I mean this stuff is hard man and and there's plenty of places to get education but it's it's great when you can get it in micro form and you can catch it you know kind of YouTube style and I love that about this so.

[00:42:03] Yeah, it's good stuff. Okay, we got one more here I wanted to talk about I had a nice briefing from the team over at zealous and if you don't know who zealous is they are what I would say the amalgamation of more pay.

[00:42:17] As well as the zealous products and if you do if you recall more pay more pay was a down market SMB solution that Northgatorin so spun off prior to them being acquired by.

[00:42:27] I think they like back in what was that 2018-19 something like that. They also dropped the Africa and the Australian capabilities that went to Prasita so that all I think ended up at a sender what was ultimately a sender.

[00:42:43] So if you think about it zealous is somewhat of an up you know amalgam of those two more pay capabilities the zealous capabilities they already had which is more so it was like more pay is sort of the down market capability they have for UK and Ireland.

[00:42:55] And so the zealous is more of a one-kane above they do actually have customers of up to 300,000 employees on that solution and then Julie you'll remember this they also acquired benefit. Yeah, absolutely we see them a lot on the global total rewards.

[00:43:10] So that's really what you're talking when you're talking zealous here really a rich. You know payroll capability and benefits capability and now they're pushing a little bit further into HCM and Core HR with the launch of zealous HCM air.

[00:43:25] A very AI driven it's actually built on Azure public cloud and they are fundamentally working on some of their modules around things like performance like performance management capability some recruiting.

[00:43:38] And then of course, they are looking at maybe even dipping their toe into the workforce management pieces and putting that in so.

[00:43:44] So Pete I was going to ask you but I think you answered as can I ask if that forging into the HCM was more truly HCM or more like high-bub engagement style stuff and it is actually more the functionality of an HCM.

[00:43:54] That's a very good functionality of an HCM platform.

[00:43:57] It sounds like to me from from the briefing and from what I can tell they are they are serious about it they're really trying to I think support that smaller bid market business probably mostly in that UK and Ireland space where there's plenty of runway of just like the US.

[00:44:10] And and being able to obviously lead with a very heavy payroll compliance capability but certainly now can turn on some. And so I think that's the very first thing we can do is to be able to do that.

[00:44:25] So, you know, you're going to have a great time with the new HCM capabilities that are going to continue to proliferate so I think you're going to see a nice nice offering here for them this is good good move at you here and stuff Brad what do you hearing?

[00:44:31] Yeah, what do you think Brad? No I mean I actually you know look I'm reading the release and actually one of the things that I really like about what they've launched in there is specifically that intelligent.

[00:44:44] Yeah, you actually saw this deal I think did also release similar to this recently with a payroll variance feature and it's just a great piece of functionality like it helps explain exactly why things are changing on the pace lip right to the worker.

[00:45:00] Yes, it has to alleviate I mean a massive amount of questions that the payroll and HR folks get around the payroll and so it's really. Again, great use case for AI and it was really really need to see that they've added that in as well.

[00:45:17] Yeah, no I think that's the future right self-explaning pace lips and in fact actually Ramco had that a few years ago they they launched something like that they call it the self-explaning pace lip.

[00:45:26] And you're right right I mean I don't know as a payroll leader on how many calls I took back the day of people who are you know didn't understand their paycheck right and and so that could have been probably a lot of time that my team and I spent you know.

[00:45:38] Of course, plenty of those things we could have used some.

[00:45:40] So yeah, I mean it's complicated man and these things are getting harder to understand I mean you know you're you're you're with all the compliance is coming you know the paycheck is getting longer in detail the the the check information if you will the pace lip information so.

[00:45:54] And and not all of us are experts you know we don't always know how to calculate those things and what applies where and yeah you know again I think I think it lends itself to.

[00:46:04] The transparency around the pay experience right you really got to help people understand what you're what you're doing with their money.

[00:46:10] Yeah, we're also the same table stakes right we're starting to see in payroll what are those AI enable things that are that are quickly becoming table stakes and you know and. And what other what is that beyond that innovation that is even being contemplated so.

[00:46:27] Yeah, yeah well you know AI AI needs to make us more effective right make us smarter and hopefully augment us and why not you know why shouldn't that be for the employees just as much it should be for the business owners business leaders so.

[00:46:41] Yeah, I mean not half of most of us aren't payroll experts or HR experts so we do need some help and then I think this is a good stuff so.

[00:46:49] All right well look that was a packed I don't know how what time you have but that was a yeah 45 minutes or so that was a packed packed week and I think we could have I probably dropped a few things and we could have brought some other stuff in but.

[00:47:00] Yeah, anything else you guys have if not let's maybe share where we're going to be and then we can kind of wrap it up anything else you guys got going on.

[00:47:07] You know I got a couple of things going on as you know I do a lot of client work between the big conference seasons so I'm deep in the throws that you heard me mention it around some of what's happening with the a lot of light and strata.

[00:47:21] Separation is generating a lot of questions and activity in the marketplace maybe one of the things I might have mentioned in our last recording peep but it's out off the press now is you know we've been doing these micro surveys to try to get.

[00:47:34] Practitioner insights and just consumable bites out there in the market and we just launched the compensation survey.

[00:47:43] That we have out it's 15 questions you don't have to be I should say compensation survey that's horrible two words to put together because it has its own meaning and compensation right but it's it's a little 15 question practitioner.

[00:47:57] You know tell us tell us how your company approaches compensation strategy and some big decisions around rewards and pay in rewards and. I think that we have the that link out there so appreciate folks timing in.

[00:48:11] Yeah I dropped it in the last episode I will drop it in this one and I shared that on LinkedIn so if you haven't had a chance to put your info into that. Yeah please share we'd love to these post surveys are very important.

[00:48:21] Julie uses those we share those out and then we certainly you know use them I know you use them in your work Julie and we're able to point to things to help people make good decisions.

[00:48:29] So yeah jump in there and get your opinion out there and yeah I want to know more about where brands going to be I get a couple little one of things there's small but like I'd rather know where brands going to be to see if we might be remotely in the same place anytime soon.

[00:48:42] Yeah well I I mostly in Colorado these days and you know I spend a lot of my most of my focus like I kind of told you was.

[00:48:53] You know I hope supporting the growth at data scales today but you know for for conference season which is quickly coming up. I usually try to go to the SIA content to workforce conference and then I typically am at the HR tech conference as well so.

[00:49:10] Okay those are both on my on my radar here for the next few months yeah cool man we'll good yeah yeah and I wanted to want you to help me get a Jerome gov.

[00:49:18] Over now on the show I want to talk AI and global payroll with him I know he's got a lot of opinions that we've been trading on LinkedIn I want to get him to talk that as well but yeah let's be sure to connect to HR tech will be I'll be there.

[00:49:28] Julie you're you're definitely there for sure in fact I get one before and one after HR tech as well so.

[00:49:35] But you know I've done the SIA content at workforce one Brad so my reach out to you and and get a little bit more insights we've been doing some workforce strategy work with folks that are looking more broadly across their contingent and gig workforce is which I think is increasingly important and almost in must have right as as we start to see workers bounce around between categories.

[00:49:58] And I don't think I've attended the SIA before yeah they just get research I haven't been to that either.

[00:50:03] Yeah it's a good one and I'll say just as like you know as you know I spend a lot of my time in the employer record space this the contingent workforce side of employer of record is also very interesting and there's just a lot of.

[00:50:17] I don't know there's a lot of huge growth kind of exciting yeah huge growth is exciting things going there there's a few innovative players like higher art and works on and yep and then you actually there was a big acquisition but a month or two ago.

[00:50:30] between two players in that space work well and this company called precision global consulting there are you.

[00:50:37] Yeah yeah so you've seen some quite a bit of M&A over the years mostly led by people 2.0 but but there's a lot of new players in that sector of the market too and so it's an area I say pretty close to.

[00:50:53] Yeah that could be a whole just a topic right that we tackle sometime in the future because there is so much going on and it is a different set of names and players right.

[00:51:02] Yeah it is and it's hypergross right I mean there's so much data on the fact that that we're seeing more and more the freelance employee or flea relance skillset coming in.

[00:51:12] I think you're going to see more and more of right there's it just makes total sense from an agility perspective just from a richness of town. Or do we dare even say the workers that are trying to do both.

[00:51:27] Yeah most of the solutions will do both right now. Well very good.

[00:51:35] Yeah all right well look this has been really great guys Brad I always appreciate having you on I'd love to have you come back and talk content workers come back and talk anything man it's been really nice and yeah we got to get to roam on here and talk about AI and yeah excited man this is I think it's going to be I'm excited for what we're going to see at HR tech I think sounds like a lot of firms are coming that haven't in the past that I know of.

[00:51:59] I mean it's our format a bit we used to do news at the beginning of each thing but I think maybe if we just aim for a monthly news episodes that folks find it more readily maybe that's the way to go I know we'll shift that way but I don't know if we've really ever called it out or said it.

[00:52:12] It's a great point yeah I we are doing that now if you guys haven't noticed yeah got a little compass on having news up front and then a guess it just felt like we were we were being sort of ignoring them in some way and I just didn't like that and I also just got weird so.

[00:52:25] I thought it was good because I isolated and because what if the guess is like a competitor to some of the news, it was just weird. So I just thought it would be better if we isolate it

[00:52:34] get into the news here. We can all pine and we don't only have a guess Brad so I think you might be our first news guest. So yeah, appreciate you coming, man. I know you're close to the market.

[00:52:44] You do a lot of slew thing around and keep in me up to date on some things that I don't catch. So yeah, great to have you, man. Really appreciate conversation. Thank you. Thank you both for having me. It's been fun and

[00:52:55] yeah, I'll definitely come back anytime you'd like and we'll get Jerome on here to chat more data scale HR with you as well. Yeah, awesome. I love it. I love it. Well, alright. Everyone take care and we will talk to you next time.