Ep 133: Empowering Communities and Unlocking Self-Awareness with Anne Descalzo and Rachel Zillner

[00:00:09] Hey everyone, it's Bob. Welcome back to Elevate Your AIQ, your go-to source for insightful conversations on human-centric AI readiness, talent transformation, responsible innovation, and the future of work. Today I'm excited to share my conversation with two women I greatly admire and respect, Anne Descalzo and Rachel Zillner, co-founders of The Rads Group, a diverse portfolio of companies including a venture fund that invests in and champions historically underserved founders. Anne and Rachel open up about their journey from bankers to entrepreneurs,

[00:00:40] what it felt like to step back from the CEO seat at the very company they built from scratch, and how they're now using behavioral science and AI to help people become better listeners, more self-aware, and more connected to the people around them. This is an awesome conversation with two super impressive female founders. It is equal parts heart and hustle, and I think you're really going to love it. Thanks so much for tuning in and let's go talk to Anne and Rachel.

[00:01:05] Hey everyone, welcome back to Elevate Your AIQ. I'm your host, Bob Pulver, and today I have two special guests, Anne Descalzo and Rachel Zillner. How are you guys? Great. Hello. Really excited for this conversation. We met recently at the NYU Coaching and Innovation Summit. I was really intrigued by some of what you guys were showing there, and we're going to get deep into that and a bunch of related topics as it relates to AI coaching.

[00:01:34] And culture change, and culture change, and all kinds of interesting topics. So yeah, really looking forward to diving in. Before we do that, I thought I'd give each of you an opportunity to introduce yourselves, and then we'll hear a little bit about your founder's story. So Rachel, why don't you go first?

[00:01:50] Sure. Happy to. I'm Rachel Zillner. I'm Anne's work wife. Together we founded Clutch, and from that journey have six different companies and a venture capital fund now. I'm a mom of two and with my husband for 19 years, and happy Sacramento resident.

[00:02:06] Well, I'll say ditto because we're work wife, so we did all of those things together. I'm a yogi at heart. I love connecting with people, making connections, and finding synergy is one of my passion areas. And I am a wife and mom to two young and active children. And we just recently got kittens in my family. So that's the new hummousad chaos in our life.

[00:02:34] Nice. We just got a bunny rabbit. Oh, wow. And he is very curious and is getting into a lot of trouble. Hoping all over the place. So that's a story for another time. Yeah. So there's a couple of things that we'll probably hit on because we're all parents just in terms of how we think about both the current workforce and the future workforce.

[00:03:00] And so, you know, I think we'll get into that over the course of some of the topics that we're going to hit on. But tell me a little bit about, you know, your backgrounds and how you guys met and decided that this was a partnership on such, you know, important, you know, mission and how you guys sort of handle day-to-day sort of operations. Like, how'd you get from clutch to six different, you know, companies and the whole portfolio that you've built together? So give me a little bit of backstory there.

[00:03:30] Yeah. Well, we're both children of entrepreneurs. So I think we were born with it in our blood and probably resisted it for some time because we grew up in our first careers in banking. And that's where our work-wife relationship started. We were counterparts and on the same team and we would solve the challenges of the organization when something wasn't working well or needed innovation.

[00:03:57] We always got the opportunity to put a new spin on it and break it apart and put the pieces back together and see what was there. We think of projects like Play-Doh and everything has, you know, like a new shape that it can take. And so we really grew up in that space and it is a very regulated industry.

[00:04:19] And so when Rachel and I got to the part where we thought we would want to go out and do something on our own, and I'll let Rachel share that story in a second. But we said, hey, why not do something that's also highly regulated and complex and get into government consulting? Because we felt like we could make great change there. And that's really what we're after as a part of all of our portfolio of companies. Nice.

[00:04:44] Yeah, what Anne's referring to is we had a particularly difficult meeting, which we had quite frequently. I mean, who doesn't? But after that one, I came downstairs, very dramatically draped myself across Anne's desk and just, if I could ever leave this place, would you go with me? And I now call that my proposal. And she said yes. So we began working on what clutch would be. And it's all kind of history from there.

[00:05:13] So clutch, you know, I think we, Anne, when we talked a little bit in New York City, I think we hit on this. And you introduced me to James Regan, who listeners can listen to episode 131, which just got released and hear the whole clutch story. But really impressive work that obviously started with everything that you guys are talking about and that you built and now handed over the reins to James.

[00:05:37] But before we talk about that sort of leadership transition, because I do want to hear about that, just like quick overview of like the RADS group and the portfolio that you have. I know, Rachel, you alluded to some of the companies within the portfolio before, but just, I guess, a 30-second little pitch for each one, maybe. Sure. So in 2023, we had a record year.

[00:06:03] And because we're bankers, we thought we would diversify our investment. So we put our roots down in Rancho Cordova. We bought a 78,000 square foot building. And it's absolutely beautiful. But we didn't need 78,000 square feet. So we took a look at the first floor and said this would make a beautiful co-working and event space. So we decided to open a co-working and event space called Frequency Co-Working and Events.

[00:06:30] The intention there is to create the type of energy where people are neutral or higher. They're in that creative and open space where we're showing up curious and figuring out what partnerships and things could look like. And today we have 65 entities that are working out of this building. Pretty excited. And there's some pretty big names in there, too. Kind of fun. And then we started our venture capital fund.

[00:06:54] Minerva Fund is grown out of when Ann and I received an $18.9 million contract out of the California Department of Public Health. We needed a line of credit. And our financial institution, even though we had perfect credit, used to run business banking for a $4 billion financial institution. We couldn't get a loan. So we were pretty mad. And once we got over the anger part, we move into the space where you do something about it.

[00:07:21] And we decided to start a venture capital fund to support other folks who don't always get the type of lending or support that they need. There are now 48 companies, going on 49 by the end of this quarter, that are in that portfolio. 83% of them are female-founded companies. And more than half of them have a founder, at least one founder that's a person of color. And we're very proud of that. And that portfolio is performing extremely well. So we're excited to see what types of things may come out of that.

[00:07:50] That fund invests in FinTech, GovTech, MedTech. And then we save 10% for cool shit, which is intentionally open. Yeah. Then we decided, you know, we do a lot of change management work. It's really our area of specialty is some experience and bringing people along, which is how most technology projects fail, is you can put whatever system you want in, but if the people riot against it, it's not going to work.

[00:08:19] And one of the most important pieces of that is communications. And so we thought, what are we missing? And when Hedden bought Runyon Salzman, they're a 66-year-old marketing and advertising company here out of California, founded by a woman, now returned and placed a CEO there, Kirsten DeLong. She's incredible. And that team is off and running and doing great things. And we formed the RADS group, which is our shared services, HRIT accounting.

[00:08:48] It's where Ann and I sit in the organization. That's our parent company. And that's us. And then we bought last year Listening Intelligence. And that was an assessment and training company that we have turned into a technology company with incredible behavioral AI. That helps people better communicate with one another, solves a lot of the miscommunication problems that exist in organizations.

[00:09:14] And it's very important that we teach people how to listen because we don't do it. Well, this is what intrigued me so much when I saw you guys, you know, stop by the booth and talk to Ann at NYU. And Rachel, I was really intrigued by, you know, your talk as well and the main stage. And so I want to dig into that.

[00:09:36] But before we do, I just, so it sounds like you have leaders in place for each of the, you know, I guess portfolio companies, you would call them. But I was particularly curious just partly because, you know, Clutch is where you started, but also because perhaps recency bias, having just having great conversation with James Regan. You know, what was that like to sort of turn over the reins for your original sort of baby?

[00:10:05] And yeah, just, just, you know, curious to get your thoughts on that. Yeah. Okay. I'll start because we both kind of have probably versions of, of course, what it feels like, but it's something that's really interesting. It's a question we get often is like founders, CEOs, I really struggle with that.

[00:10:24] And I don't know how this fits on an AI themed podcast, but we're actually pretty spiritual folks and, and really about living in our purpose. And, you know, I think the job that Rachel and I came to do when we created Clutch was served. I think we were able to do what we could with that organization and set our ego aside from what it can continue to become.

[00:10:52] And when you see good talent, it's a really incredible thing. And the beauty in entrepreneurship is that you get to work with really smart people, people that are smarter than you, that level you up, that challenge you. And it's the beauty of having this portfolio because we're surrounded by those types of humans and leaders that want to do good, that want to make great change in this world.

[00:11:14] And it actually came with great joy that we could bring someone in and lead Clutch into what's next for it. And on a personal note, despite having great joy, despite knowing we have the most incredible leader in place to lead the organization, I did experience a little bit of grief. And it's not something that I've talked about quite a bit, but it's just because it's a transition. I think we don't often acknowledge how grief shows up.

[00:11:45] Grief is associated a lot of times with death, but grief can also show up with transition and change. And I still had two things that were true. I was incredibly proud of Clutch. I'm incredibly trusting and grateful for James and his leadership. And I was still on a journey departing an identity that brought some grief because of the change. But I think that's all healthy and normal. It's because I care.

[00:12:13] If I didn't experience it, that would be questionable. But for me, I know and see the possibility in things and know where my highest and best purpose is. And it's different and it's evolved since growing the portfolio. I appreciate you sharing all that. And yeah, I imagine that's bittersweet is sort of an understatement. But it's great to hear how proud you are of James and the company. I was really kind of blown away, actually. So, Rachel, anything you would add?

[00:12:43] Yeah, I feel so much gratitude to have found such an incredible person. He's absolutely the right person. For me, I didn't so much experience grief because I had stepped back and Anne had stepped into that CEO role. So I had done that cycle.

[00:13:00] But for me, it was about how do I make sure that we infuse as much learning as quickly as possible to James about the history and what we had learned through these cycles? Because it's like drinking from a fire hose, right? When you step into a large role like that. And I was so impressed because, you know, I'm a mom, so I can say this one. You always have the worry spots as a mom.

[00:13:30] Like, oh, are they going to forget their jacket? Oh, my gosh. Did they bring their gym clothes? You know, like there's all the things. So I had one of those moments where it's like, oh, is he going to know what to do about this situation or that situation? And instead of forcing the information on him, instead, Anne or I would show up curious like, hey, James, what are you thinking about X? And we'd walk away and go, he's got it. He's totally got it.

[00:13:55] So it was just for me, joy, deep breath and more capacity to focus on the other things that we had brought in. So it was good. Well, I was going to say, it's like you're not you're not going far. Right. So if he needs you, he knows to tap you. He sits between us. Okay. Yeah. I don't know what that's like, but I certainly have close family and friends who have, you know, sold their startups or relinquish control and what have you.

[00:14:24] So I know it's not it's not easy. The closest thing is is me about to drop off my daughter at college. So I've got to just know that she's in good hands and she's in what's going to be a future happy place. And and she's she's going to do great. But it is bittersweet as a as a girl dad dropping off your only child at school. So, yeah, you've got the dad worry spots. It's good. Yeah, it's going to be a rough couple couple weeks. But we'll get to it. She'll be great.

[00:14:53] So, yeah, let's dig into to LQ and listening intelligence, because I just think this is a fascinating area that people may not know much, much about. Certainly, when we talk about transformation, we see we see headlines left and right where people are really struggling. And some of it is just not learning basic lessons that, you know, we've learned over the last couple decades when it comes to, you know, social transformation, digital transformation, things of that nature.

[00:15:23] And that it all comes back to people and behavior change. But that doesn't just knowing that doesn't mean that you're going to be successful at doing it. It takes a lot of, you know, coordination, concerted effort, care, empathy, and all of these sort of human durable, you know, traits. But you guys have sort of packaged this through, you know, cognitive science and behavioral science and things like that. So I'm going to butcher it.

[00:15:50] So I'll let you guys sort of describe exactly how the solution works and how it might be implemented. And yeah, I'm sure I'll have a bunch of questions as you do that. I will just share. We were thrilled to learn about this product because looking across our portfolio and Rachel explained why the acquisition for our communications and marketing agency made sense in the work that we do.

[00:16:16] And this underlying theme of connecting people to resources and really bringing them along through a change process as we do in many of our organizations. We were thrilled to find that this work existed, that the science behind the brain and how we communicate things has been studied and researched in this way and could quickly be assessed.

[00:16:37] So people can very level up their understanding of themselves and how they show up in the world, especially with this rapid change, especially now with AI being implemented. And so we're so grateful that it came into our sphere because at one point we thought we had to build it. And we're entrepreneurs that know you don't have to build everything. You can build, you can buy, you can, you know, partner. There's there's different ways and paths to make great change.

[00:17:05] But this one came in and we couldn't unsee the possibility of what was here and how it could truly what we believe change humanity by teaching awareness and understanding and listening. And so we've been able to spend time in that space and then understand and see and build what's now possible with it.

[00:17:27] And so maybe, Rachel, you could share a little bit more about that piece because it's the innovative piece that really layers on top of what has already been happening. That's tremendous about it. Yeah, you know, that's the fun thing about getting new tools in the sandbox is when we first received the tool, we thought, OK, this is an assessment and training that is going to be incredibly powerful.

[00:17:49] You know, the the last time that we taught people about here in the United States, at least about listening, it was when the boys and gals came home from World War Two. We put a jacket on them, looked them in the eyes and said, hey, you make eye contact, you nod your head and you say, uh-huh, yeah. And that's listening. And in fact, that's not listening at all. Those are just some behaviors that make another person feel as though they're being listened to.

[00:18:18] But in your mind, you could be writing your grocery list. You could be thinking about the sports game, like whatever it might be. So it's it's beyond that. There is no listening education that really we've taught in school or at home besides telling people to listen. Right. We're very good at saying, listen to me. When we started digging in, like, OK, this is this is really great. We have 15 years of scientific research. It's the only scientifically backed cognitive listening assessment in the world.

[00:18:47] The training is phenomenal. We teach something called the scan model to help you identify what the listening preferences are of another individual so that you can pivot and have better communication. Well, Anne and I are application people. So when we're thinking, I mean, we've run training teams. You can go through incredible training. But it's what happens after the training, that integration that is the most important.

[00:19:13] And if you don't integrate, you've made an incredible investment and gotten a little piece of it. So in today's world, with the great technology that exists, we were able to create a behavioral AI that has the learnings of thousands and thousands and thousands of people who have taken this assessment about what kinds of brains are out there and how they work.

[00:19:38] And this AI allows you to prep for a difficult conversation with another person based on their behavioral, sorry, on their type of brain. It'll allow you to create an agenda based on who you're meeting with so that really what we're doing is making sure we see all the other people in the room. If I'm going to show up and just communicate the way I like to be talked to, I'm going to, for me personally, I'm going to lose my tech people.

[00:20:08] I'm going to lose most of my analytical listeners. I'm going to lose a lot of my financial listeners. I'm just, I'm a visionary. I'm, you know, being really connective. And if there are no rules, just dreamer, you know, going off at my space. And that doesn't serve me. It doesn't serve the room. And this tool allows you to go faster together because you're bringing people along the way they want to be included. It will give you ways that you can adjust the way you speak in opening. It will give you questions that you can ask.

[00:20:38] It helps you with your conclusion statements. And that's great from a one-on-one. Perhaps it's a critical conversation that you need to have. Those are always so hard. I find that most leaders I worked with, especially frontline leaders or first-time leaders, it's so hard to go into a difficult conversation and walk away feeling like you did a good job, that they heard you or that were on the same page. So it's a great tool for that.

[00:21:04] There's another application that we've created with this as well that is for sales teams. And this is not, this is a lived experience. And there's some research behind it as well that salespeople are the worst listeners. They're great at talking. But it's a really helpful tool for someone who's really a salesperson is trying really hard to help connect the dots between what you need and what they have to offer.

[00:21:30] And we can miss those communications a lot if you don't understand who you're speaking to. So we've created a tool for that as well. And we're stoked. We're using it. We've licensed it into our change management for the work that we do with Clutch and licensed into marketing. It has many, many applications when you have a new data point that we haven't considered in the past. So how is the data captured?

[00:21:58] Is this just sort of like ambient in the room, like a note taker behind the scenes? I mean, how does it, what does it look like if you're adopting this or you totally appreciate everything that you just said? You know people could be more effective. And maybe that's through anecdotal information, survey feedback, no other explanation for, you know, bad relationships between your manager.

[00:22:26] I mean, what are some of like either the, you know, the signals, I guess it's two separate questions, the signals that would get someone to realize, I can't believe we haven't had this before. This is amazing. But also how do we not sort of impede and have this another sort of layer of, you know, oversight or micromanagement or what have you? Great question.

[00:22:51] Yeah, so this can be rolled out a number of different ways or exist in a number of different ways. We built it as an outside application that you can use and go to. And then we built it as an integration. It can go into your HRIS. It can, you can API it into whatever system it is that you're using. And we can also integrate other data that you might have. So let's, let's use like a Fortune 500 organization. Perhaps they're on Workday, right?

[00:23:21] It's a commonly used product in that space. You can overlay this into your Workday application and go like look at a screen in Workday that has all of your team members there. And you can bring in, perhaps they've taken DISC before or StrengthsFinders before. They've made those investments. We can pull that data in. And you could say, I need to form a team for a project that we're going to work on. I need these three strengths.

[00:23:48] I'm looking for this DISC profile and this kind of, you know, whatever through the team. You can pull that team together and then invite them to a meeting. And then you could say, I would need an agenda for that meeting based on their listing type. Because if you have this software, one of the things that you get is an annual assessment of that brain. So that breaks there.

[00:24:11] And if the person hasn't taken the assessment, it can learn based on your interactions, which can be recorded through, you know, whatever phone teams meetings you're on or Zoom meetings, whatever it might be. Or you can tell it what you've noticed about that person. And it can make a reasonable assessment based on the content you've provided to it. And you can continue to update that if you have a different experience. I guess I'm thinking about it more than the one-on-ones.

[00:24:40] I mean, one of the things I was thinking about is these human biases that we all have. Sometimes they could have been formed. You know, a lot of these biases are subconscious, of course. And so you don't even realize some of the things that we're doing. And we're not even aware of the logic.

[00:24:58] We can't even necessarily explain the logic of our own decision-making and why we were so adamant about one particular, you know, choice or, you know, outcome or what have you. And so I just wonder about the sort of self-reflective insight that this could provide to someone and how they might react to that.

[00:25:22] I mean, if they're actually trying to grow as a person, as a leader, as a collaborator, et cetera, you would sort of embrace this just like, you know, the StrengthsFinder is going to tell you, you know, where you're strong and where you're not as strong. Or the Disc may say, oh, I hadn't really thought about the fact that I'm such a, you know, people pleaser or whatever.

[00:25:43] But some of it is like the way that you actually are handling potentially everyday, you know, conversations and no one ever pointed it out to you. So it seems like that kind of stuff could be revealed through this. We have so many data points around folks saying they never knew this about themselves or just the way the awareness changes when they have access to this and unlock it for themselves.

[00:26:12] There were there was a time when someone was in a training and they got their results on the assessment and were going through everything and basically unlocked why they have so much friction at home in their communication but needed validation from their partner. Like, I'm not analytical, like, I don't show up this way and it's like, oh my goodness, no, this is exactly it.

[00:26:35] And actually, like, it's so much more sense now as to why the communication flows or has friction because of this. But it's through the lens of listening and how the brain is processing and has those habits. So it's just a really fascinating thing for folks to learn about themselves and how they move about the world. And then it makes you incredibly aware of how you're showing up for other people or maybe missing things, right? Because you're not listening for it.

[00:27:05] So it's the energy expended throughout the different listening habits. Your brain is capable of all of them, but it might become very exhausting to spend time in connective conceptual. It analytical is, can, it takes more of my brain power to be in that space.

[00:27:23] Reflective, so really focusing on past experiences or like dinner, deep inner reflection is like, oh gosh, like I don't even consider that because I'm thinking of the world around me and others and how it affects things and this big picture thing. So imagine what could happen in the workplace when folks show up with that understanding. It's like we see friction getting removed.

[00:27:49] We see so many of these biases that are held where we think, oh, Rachel doesn't like me because she's all questioning back. Well, maybe she's actually using her analytical listening. And that's a value add when we're on a project and we want to see it be as successful as possible. And so when you think about, yeah, what are those things we're carrying around or the stories that we've made up in our mind without any data to base it is really important.

[00:28:15] And I think it kind of gets into the philosophical conversation of AI and the biases that are put there and how we consider how people's brains receive information. There was a conversation I had recently with someone in talent acquisition. We were talking about, you know, all these AI use cases within talent acquisition. And, you know, most of what we see today is geared towards efficiency as opposed to effectiveness.

[00:28:43] And part of the effectiveness, at least some of the use cases, we're like calling ourselves out. Right. Like, why don't you use AI to look and see the hidden biases in your interview team? Or like, what are the patterns that we can see? And so why don't you use, it falls under this umbrella of using AI to make ourselves better. Right.

[00:29:09] And I think that's where you guys are sitting with this, with this platform to say, listen, we're just, this is a mirror. Right. We're flipping this back to you to say, this is how this is being, you know, perceived, not just by our tool, but likely by, by others. Right.

[00:29:30] And so if you're not listening effectively, it means you're not considering the right criteria in your decision support system, even if that's, you know, solely within your skull. I have an example that's tangential, but fun in this space. One of person who is a high level reseller of StrengthsFinder loves StrengthsFinder, right? Or wouldn't be, wouldn't be in that product space.

[00:29:58] And it's really great. And has received a lot of feedback that as a leader, this person is continuously changing their mind. Right. Like we've all known a leader. It's like you ask a question and then later they come back with a different, a different answer. And what he, that he learned through the process was that he is a reflective listener.

[00:30:21] And so for him, this thing that he carried around where people had all of these and they were putting this bias on him that he just changes his mind all the time. And he's like, no, I'm then taking the time and reflecting through my experiences and arriving where I want to be. I just didn't have the time to process it in that moment. And it just, he said it changed his life.

[00:30:45] Like it was absolutely game changing because now he can relieve himself of these like labels that were existing for him that were not true. They just didn't have the data point about how his brain now give him the time. Think about this and let me know. And he can arrive there because they know how his brain actually wants to process that information. It's pretty cool. Yeah, very cool. I can relate to that a bit.

[00:31:11] But I also think, you know, it's, you know, there's some aspect of this that says, it's not just that I'm taking in new information. I guess as, you know, personal review, I mean, view of myself, whether that's accurate or not, I'm not sure. But I think I am a reflective listener as well, but it's also like I'm continually gathering new evidence, new information.

[00:31:36] And so if I change my mind as a result of that, I mean, isn't that what we want to, you know, improve upon the decision and take that? Maybe that information is irrelevant. Maybe it reinforces, you know, the direction I was already going in. Maybe some of that could also be just, you know, recency bias. But if you try to look at it as objectively as you can, you know, maybe that does help.

[00:32:03] So, yeah, I mean, I would say some of my impulsive decisions have been, you know, ill-advised and I probably should have taken more time to reflect. But at least we know reflective exists now. We could do something about it. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, there was another sort of just, you know, hitting on the bias thing.

[00:32:25] Again, recently, I had someone who did a company asked a friend of mine to go in and look at where they might have, you know, adverse impact and where they might. I guess they were kind of reflecting on their diversity and the demographics of the organization or whatever. And he gave them what the data revealed across a bunch of different data sources, across different phases of employment and different domains or whatever.

[00:32:52] And it was sort of unanimous that there was, you know, bias all over the place. And they just like, they like practically kicked him out of the room. They're like, there's no way. Well, you're just like, this sort of proves the point that the data revealed, right? Like, you can't even handle, I mean, not to use a movie quote, but you can't handle the truth apparently. But this is what we see. So, yeah, I think it's really fascinating.

[00:33:19] So, I imagine you get questions about, like, maybe how this can be, you know, sort of standardized. I mean, Rachel, you mentioned DISC and StrengthsFinder and things like that. I mean, is this something that you think will have that sort of household name kind of? Yeah. I mean, when StrengthsFinder got started, you know, when Gallup got started, you have to start somewhere, right? People didn't know it won't be the value of that.

[00:33:47] I remember when I first heard about it was sitting at a conference where they were talking about focusing on your strengths. And I was like, well, what are your strengths? You know, we always focus so much of our time on what we're not good at, trying to be better. Not going to be perfect at everything. And DISC, you know, they all, everything comes to be in those moments. And we have a lot of folks who have used this and people love it. But it hadn't had its day in the sun yet.

[00:34:16] When we bought this organization, they were really more of a boutique organization. And we're working on that larger go-to-market plan so that everybody knows that it's accessible to them. It isn't meant to be just something that's deployed in a workspace. We see application in marriages and relationships, parent-child relationships. There's so many, you know, places where this can exist.

[00:34:43] For my family, I'm like, yay, we understand each other better. This is so helpful. Yeah, we say that it's for anyone that has a brain because it's cognitive-based. And it's not if you're a good or bad listener. It's the awareness about your listening. And we can all improve our listening, too. And build it like a skill. It's like a muscle that you need to strengthen. Yeah, I was thinking about, well, you know, any kind of portable digital credentials, right?

[00:35:11] Like what Clutch is working on with the career, you know, passport and whether— Because ideally, I feel like any individual, regardless of whether you're a candidate, employee, contractor, et cetera, should have that level of both control, privacy, and portability. And so, you know, I've often wondered whether, you know, solutions like listening intelligence and StrengthsFinder

[00:35:36] and some of these others should just be—like you shouldn't have to take those more than one time, even if you're interviewing with 100 companies, right? It should be available for you to selectively sort of share with companies. So that was one question. And then, oh, just, you know, going back to the sort of theme of that NYU conference around coaching. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, coaching.

[00:36:01] So how do you think about using this as—I mean, would you sell this to coaches as an extension of what they're doing? I mean, maybe just part of that sort of sub-ecosystem there. We have more than—we have a few hundred coaches globally right now that are certified in LQ, enlisting intelligence.

[00:36:25] We have certifications about every other month right now, and we do specialty ones as well if there's a concentration. So we've done this with some of the universities. We have it available on our website, lq-listingintelligence.com. There's a section there for professionals and coaches where they can go look at it. They can take the assessment. They can sign up to get certified.

[00:36:50] And once you're certified, then you can be a distributor of the content and sell the assessment as well if that's something that they'd like to do. We're not trying to keep this as a secret. We think it's a really valuable thing for people to understand about how their brains want to receive information. And, yes, once you've taken it and you know what it is, it's something I think people could choose to put in their LinkedIn profile or not to. It's your information.

[00:37:17] We have some groups that choose to roll this out across the organization to employees and leaders because the communication works up and down and sideways, right? And we have some folks who want to obscure it, right? They may have some reason they want to know what it is, but they want to make sure that it doesn't stay in our database. So we do that as well.

[00:37:40] Yeah, that seems very complimentary as a way to sort of augment what the coach is already sort of privy to and not working with. So, yeah. It's a tool in a tool belt. For sure. And from the AI perspective, I mean, you could think about it like you may have a fitness trainer, you have a coach, however, you know, the analogy we want to use to work. But you have those sessions with the coach and that's where you do the deep dive. That's where you learn the new stuff.

[00:38:06] But then you have to go somewhere to practice it because, well, we would all love to have a coach or a trainer with us every single day, every moment. It's not possible, but you still need to continue to build that muscle. And so this AI really reinforces the behavior. So it becomes something that you're not in a stuck spot just because you need to have a difficult conversation. And so it augments what those practices are. And so we're very mindful about we need the human aspect, right?

[00:38:35] Like where we can be great teachers to one another and experience there. But like building the muscle in between is that extra reinforcement. So it very much complements what's happening in that coaching scenario. So how are you guys thinking about, you know, the evolution of AI, both like incorporating it into solutions in your platform, you know, using it.

[00:39:02] Well, for your own, you know, I guess operations across the portfolio. Is it part of, you know, due diligence on the VC side? Just how are you sort of keeping tabs of everything that you think AI can help you with as, you know, business owners? And how you think about it from for your constituents throughout the 76,000 repeat and beyond.

[00:39:30] We are aggregators of people. So we last year, we did an AI skills lab and invited a lot of business owners or people who wanted to build things in AI and then brought them five days a week for three weeks of content. Almost, you know, just to hurry up and get in here. And we like bringing content to people. And we really love that hands on in person. I mean, we're a little old school, I guess, in that way.

[00:39:58] Not that we don't do remote, we do too, but there's something really special about people coming together and having those side conversations. This fall, we have another series that we're producing. We have the woman who is getting everyone together at the UN to set AI governance standards for all of us. She's coming to kick off that series for us. Her name is Lisa Thie. She's an incredible human being and has a wonderful team that she works with. We're really lucky here in Rancho Cordova, California.

[00:40:27] This is a center for AI. We have a lot of great organizations headquartered that are walkable for us. And not just Lisa Thie in our region, we also have Sadie St. Lawrence in our region. These are women that have been working with the White House for years on what this is going to be and how it will impact people. And so we're constantly in a space of holding platforms where people can have philosophical conversations. And then real, actual, what's happening.

[00:40:56] Because we make so many investments through venture capital, we get a lot of great touch points from those companies that are working in AI on what's happening. For example, one of our founders is Chris Bondi with Momodo. Momodo has a way to detect based on location, like your mouse, your keyboard, your files, your computer, your, you know, insert device here. What IP addresses have infiltrated your system? And that's like, what?

[00:41:26] Okay, this is super cool from a cybersecurity standpoint and AI. What's been happening, the Wall Street Journal dropped an article yesterday about North Korea. They have been infiltrating American workspace through remote work culture and faking identities and gaining access to American company data and information and dollars, right? They've moved a lot of money into North Korea in this space.

[00:41:50] So we get weird, obscure sort of things like that that a lot of folks may or may not be paying attention to because we're broadly invested into different types of AI and different people doing different things. So we try and bring that learning to classes. Yeah. No, that's it. That's it. You're pointing out a pretty prevalent problem in talent acquisition right now, right?

[00:42:14] So the candidate fraud, you know, yeah, you're getting your volume of candidates went up exponentially, but they don't assume that they're all humans. Like before you were worried about whether or not they were quality candidates in the first place. Now you have to worry about whether they're legitimate people. But yeah, that is from a cyber perspective that has created a whole new sort of attack vector for companies. And they're having some success, which means they're going to keep trying.

[00:42:44] Yes. When it pays, you keep going to the thing you get paid for. And even, you know, Bob, in that space, like how are people using AI? AI for good. We did a partnership with AI for good here in our region. And so we have somewhere between 150 and 200 people in our building a few days a month, if not a few days a week, that are building things in the nonprofit sector. And they call it AI for good. Yeah. Wonderful learnings come from that.

[00:43:12] And they're sharing different projects and things with each other. Hands-on keyboards, too. So like really practical stuff to move the needle, because it's one thing I think to teach or talk about, but to really like evangelize it in a way that becomes adopted by those organizations is what we love. Like we love seeing it in action, not just a conversation. No, that makes sense.

[00:43:37] I think you kind of hit on where I was going to go in terms of the learnings that you might be doing and providing, bringing people in, and just having these sort of, I guess it gives coworking sort of double meaning. But I do think it's important. I mean, community is important. It's important for others to see the progress that people are making and help each other through that, share use cases, share ideas.

[00:44:06] And so, yes, you can do that through virtual communities, but there's sometimes no substitute for doing that in person. Shared learning is always valuable, right? So the more folks we have that are off on their adventures and they can come back and share, we're all better off for it. So we love being an epicenter for AI and the organizations that have their hands on it in any facet because they're going to help us all learn and go faster together.

[00:44:34] And maybe I'm trying to reflect back, Anne, when we were talking about some of the things going on in the region there, maybe it was the AI for Good that you were talking about. Are there other initiatives, other, you know, what's next for you guys as you think about like the wrapping up summer and the rest of the year? I mean, what are you guys looking forward to? You got a lot on your plates. Yeah, there's always a lot going on and not just here, but across our region.

[00:45:05] And it's something, it's what Rachel said, it's like this ecosystem really bubbling up and becoming what it is. And that's what I think we talked about. And I invited you out here. I'm like, hey, if you're ever in California, come visit us. There's a lot of really cool stuff happening here, Bob. But we were just at an event last night. So our city is very invested in AI and AI advancement. So there was a kickoff event for the AI ecosystem here in the city of Rancho Cordova that we're thrilled about. And it's AI and robotics. And so there's really neat things.

[00:45:35] The manufacturing industry is really, it's really booming. I mean, there's a big effort from the federal side to keep it, reshore manufacturing. But especially in this region and being the capital region of California, the proximity to the Bay Area and that sort of thing. But we're really seeing this exponential growth because of AI in manufacturing.

[00:45:59] And one of the things that's really fascinating to Rachel and I and why I appreciate, you know, being able to share the microphone and have this opportunity to have that conversation, Bob, is a lot of people don't tell their story. They're not they're not talking about what they're doing. And that's how we experience share. It's how you it's how we bring things and keep things on shore because of that awareness.

[00:46:20] And so Rachel and I are really excited to help people that wouldn't traditionally share their story in that way and evangelize it because there's incredible things happening. I met a gentleman last night who's doing great work with NVIDIA, demoing some of their AI things in the space of manufacturing. And they've never used marketing services because and they say they're the best kept secret in business. I don't know if that's a great thing to be the best kept secret.

[00:46:49] You want you want the thing to be known. And so we really want to encourage founders and CEOs to share that story. And so I would say as we look at, you know, our portfolio and body of work, we we want to help people, you know, have that steady drumbeat and be out there and be proud of the innovative work that they're doing and feel comfortable sharing their story. And I know I've sent you plenty of referrals on guests. I'm like, please talk to these people.

[00:47:17] There's so much to hear and know about what's happening. So that's probably what I'm pretty, pretty looking forward to and excited about right now. Yeah, no, I definitely appreciate the recommendations and I do plan on having both of them on the show. Yeah, I think it's tough for some people right now.

[00:47:35] I feel like if you're not, if you're either, you know, introverted or you think that you're giving away your special sauce or whatever it is, I think more and more people are trying to figure out where is the line I don't necessarily want to cross without giving things away. I think with AI, because things can get built so fast or trying to figure out where, where is my, where is my, my moat, right? Where is my competitive advantage?

[00:48:01] And if I share this playbook or this framework or whatever, am I giving away my, my secrets and, you know, sort of cannibalizing my own potential growth. In some ways, I feel like I'm having deja vu because we talked about this at the birth of social media 20 years ago when people said, well, I don't want to share my expertise because then everyone will have that expertise.

[00:48:28] I was like, well, that was kind of almost silly looking, looking back. I mean, knowledge is more powerful when it's, when it's shared. Yeah. If it's comes to monetization, then you need to perhaps be a little bit more careful, but, but we all need to think about, you know, social proof and, and our reputation and how can we help people and influence people in a constructive, you know, responsible and ethical way.

[00:48:53] And so, I don't know, I think people are still trying to figure out what is their particular like balance point. Yeah. Yeah. I, I would just add to this, Bob, like our greatest learning and I, I could speak for us is from our failure, right? Like make the mistake, make it faster. And everyone talks about fail faster now, but there's a difference between carrying it around and actually doing it. And, you know, I'm not saying like, oh, okay, show up and do your trade secrets.

[00:49:22] Like I think, listen to your gut. If it says there's fear about sharing this, then hold it until it says, I don't have fear about sharing this thing anymore. But certainly we're coming out of pandemic. People are used to being in their homes. They're not used to being around other people. Some are desperate for it, are excited about it. Others are not, are, are very comfortable doing the same thing.

[00:49:47] And that habit change to go back out and be connective with other people is an important part of what we can do that AI can't do. It is a differentiator. And I mean, I was checking, talking to a gentleman last night that's an academic that has done tons of cool things and written amazing books and has a beautiful mind. And he said, I, I just get really anxious. And I was like, yeah, me too. And he's like, what?

[00:50:13] Like, yeah, I sit in the car and I'm like, oh my God, those people, I'm not going to remember everyone's name and they're going to talk to me. And what am I going to do? And he's like, you feel like that? I'm like, oh, I bet more people feel like that than you realize. We just are ducks on a pond, you know, with your feet going underneath the water. Just get out there. Ask someone if you can hug them, you know. Collect seven a day, Anne and I say. It's good for your soul. There's studies to support it. I don't know the names of those studies, but we've heard it in enough places that we do it.

[00:50:42] Sure, sure. Yeah. Well, I want to be respectful of your time. And this has been an awesome conversation. I'm just so impressed with everything that you guys have built, everything you're doing for the community, for not just like the Sacramento or Rancho Cordova, you know, the capital region, but, you know, across the street and across the globe and all the great work that you're doing.

[00:51:06] And really leaning into these underserved communities based on, you know, in some ways your own experiences. And just, you know, obviously wish you guys the best. And I hope I can get out there and get you guys to visit. We'd love that. You could set up and film a whole bunch of episodes in one day. That's what Anne and I talked about. I should just do mobile. Great minds think alike. Mobile studio. Yeah, I mean, I figured between the Sacramento area and down in the Bay Area, I could easily fill a couple weeks. Very.

[00:51:35] Morning. California's tall and bum. Yeah. We'll have to work on that. She's got beautiful weather. Might have to take the bunny with me. Oh, well, hey. Bunny's like California. You can't even go on the airplanes all the time. Yeah. Make a really good story. You can make a whole nother podcast about you and the bunny. That is probably true. There you go. All right. To be continued. Thank you both so much. Anne, Rachel, really, really appreciate it. This was great. Thank you. Pleasure to hang out with you today. Likewise. Thanks everyone for listening.

[00:52:05] We will catch you next time. Bye. Bye.