Ep 116: Evolving the HR Function Through Agentic AI and Human Potential with Laura Maffucci

[00:00:09] Hey everyone, welcome back to Elevate Your AIQ, your go-to source for insightful conversations on human-centric AI readiness, talent transformation, responsible innovation, and the future of work. On today's episode, I'm joined by Laura Maffucci. She's the head of HR at Globalization Partners, or GP, a pioneer in global employment and employer of record solutions. Laura brings nearly three decades of HR leadership experience and this conversation builds on a shorter in-person chat we had at the HR Tech Conference in Las Vegas.

[00:00:39] Last fall, giving us a chance to go much deeper on how AI is reshaping the world of work. We explore how agentic AI tools like GP's GIA are transforming global hiring, compliance, and HR operations, and what it really means to lead HR from within an HR tech organization, where you're not just supporting transformation, but actively piloting it in real time.

[00:01:01] Laura also shares candid perspectives on the gap between executive expectations and employee experiences with AI and the evolving human skills that matter most. Thanks for listening and being part of the Elevate Your AIQ community. Let's go talk to Laura. Hey everyone, Bob Pulver. Welcome back to Elevate Your AIQ. Today, I am excited to catch up with Laura Maffucci. How are you today, Laura? I'm great, Bob. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:27] Absolutely. We first had a chat at HR Tech. One of the things we talked about, of course, was GP's GIA, which I know we're going to talk about, and here are all the latest and greatest of what's going on with everything you're doing in the agentic and AI agent space. But first, for those who aren't familiar with your background, I just thought you could introduce yourself, talk a little bit about your career trajectory and your role at GP.

[00:01:50] Sure. So, I'm the head of HR for Globalization Partners, and we are the industry leader. We founded the industry for the EOR space, which is employer record for those who aren't familiar with it. And we also have our AI product, GPGA, which further helps employers hire and manage compliance globally for their global teams.

[00:02:13] I've been in HR probably 30 years. Yikes. And, you know, I came up on the comp and HRIS side of things and total rewards, and then at GP, expanded my horizons, and now am lucky to lead this team here. And when we talk about employer of record, just for people and organizations that aren't familiar with, can you just talk a little bit about, you know, what that enables companies to do in terms of the access to talent and other mechanisms?

[00:02:43] So, if, say, a company needs to hire someone in Germany, a U.S. company or a company anywhere or not in Germany wants to hire somebody in Germany, they can and they don't have an entity. It can take months, it can take months, if not years. It's incredibly expensive and complicated to create a business entity in another country. Instead of going through all that or instead of having to hire on contract or help, you can work with us and we hire them on as our employee.

[00:03:13] They're doing work for you, the customer, but on paper, on record, they're a GP employee. So, we handle payroll, benefits, taxes, compliance, everything related to the employment of that individual as it relates to the specific laws of the country in which they're working in.

[00:03:35] So, it really takes all of that complexity, you know, even if you are able to get that entity set up, just the complexity of employing someone outside of your home country is incredibly challenging. And we take all of that burden off. No, I think it's an amazing program and concept for anyone who's not established in a lot of countries to be able to access that talent wherever it exists. So, that's excellent.

[00:03:59] So, I wanted to ask you, so we introduced GIA, I think it had launched at some point in the middle of 2025 last year. And I know you guys were not resting on the awards that you've won and you continue to innovate in that space. So, maybe you can just give us some highlights of what GIA is doing and some of the new capabilities and scope that it's taken on.

[00:04:23] Sure. Yeah, I mean, GIA is a great tool, a genetic AI tool that really helps HR teams streamline everything related to employment. Global employment, but also employment in the United States, you know. It's sometimes like a different country, the state-specific laws within the U.S. So, even if you're just a U.S.-based employer, it's really helpful to have a tool that can make sure you're staying compliant everywhere that you're running business.

[00:04:50] And GIA, you know, is great with giving you information on compliance questions and legal questions. And as it's advancing and as we're doing more with it, it can generate contracts. It can keep an eye on your policies. You can have your own entity within GIA, your own tenant. And you upload your company's policies and it can run a check on them every six months, every year and tell you where there's been a legal change and where you have to update it.

[00:05:19] So, it's really coming along with, you know, it's always been a great resource, but now it's starting to do those things for you and really, really alleviate those burdens. I'm pretty excited that we're starting a pilot within my own internal HR team to use GIA as an HR agent for internal employees. We're going to start small.

[00:05:41] We're going to start with one department in one country where when employees are submitting their tickets with HR questions that we would normally answer, GIA is going to take the first shot at responding to those. So, someday, you know, customers will be able to do the same thing. So, it's pretty cool. Yeah, that's awesome. It just seems like an amazing experience to be able to not just like drink your own champagne when it comes to, you know, GIA.

[00:06:09] But as I think you know, I spent a lot of time on this show and elsewhere talking about responsible AI and AI governance. I do think continuous monitoring is necessary and that's going to be sort of this underlying sort of plumbing, just like data privacy and cybersecurity or for technology infrastructure. And I just think it's so crucial to be able to, you know, balance both responsibility and innovation at the same time. And you seem to be exemplifying that. Yeah, it's really important.

[00:06:38] You know, I'm very, I'm very conflicted about AI. I'm a let go or be dragged person. You know, I know that when these things come out, whether you like them or not, you had best learn them and learn how to work with them or else you're going to wind up in trouble whether you love it or hate it. And, you know, there's so much out there and so much of it is just slop really.

[00:06:56] And when you're working, when you're using it for your job and you need the information to be accurate, especially when you're talking about legal and compliance matters or things that are directly affecting human beings, you want to make sure that it's right. And, you know, they say that 80% of the answers from a lot of the LLMs is coming from Reddit and other places like that that are scripted on the Internet.

[00:07:20] So if you have a legal or compliance question, Reddit's not your, I hope Reddit's not your first stop, you know, to go to get that answer. And so that's why I really feel good about what we're doing at GP. Of course, GIA does use the information on the Internet, especially government websites where to keep up with those compliance changes and those legislative changes.

[00:07:41] But it's the data that's in there and the primary source of information is based on our over a decade of experience in global employment. It's coming from the HR professionals who've been on the ground working. It's coming from our amazing legal team who's been on the ground doing the work. So when you're using this, you know where the information is coming from. You don't have to wonder, well, where did they get this?

[00:08:05] And when it comes to things around global employment and compliance, I think that's critical and so, so important. I think critical thinking has become critical thinking and discernment. People need to just double down on that right now. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that ties to when I think about like AI readiness, AI fluency.

[00:08:27] I'm not sure what term you guys use at GP, but this is part of understanding how to use it properly, not just, you know, how do I type a better prompt, add more context?

[00:08:38] How do I, you know, do these tactical things, but really how am I using it most effectively by understanding where its limitations might be, being skeptical of its output and asking, you know, better questions about what, you know, where the data came from and what are logical conclusions from that. But really using it as a thought partner, I think is important. Yeah, very important. Very important.

[00:09:03] So just in terms of the AI adoption patterns and investments that the companies are making, I know you guys have done some recent, you know, research across your customer base and perhaps beyond. Any key, you know, insights that our listeners should be aware of?

[00:09:25] Yeah, I think, you know, most executives, I think over 70% say they believe that AI is going to help remove barriers and simplify work. Over 60% are seeing that, you know, entry-level roles are actually going to grow or remain stable, but they're going to change. And a lot of them will be running AI versus doing the work autonomously.

[00:09:52] And, you know, almost 60% are prioritizing AI skills. I think that, you know, and those are really like the key things that stuck out to me. I find it really interesting, though, when I look at that and then I look at a lot of the other research that I've just been doing on my own about all of this. And there's a huge disconnect from what executives think and what employees think. There's just a huge gap.

[00:10:19] And a lot of people are saying, well, yes, it's allowing them to do more. It's actually making their jobs harder because it's allowing them to do more. Because most people don't stop when they get something done quicker and easier, then they just take on more and do more. Or there are other people who don't know how to use it properly and are giving them work product that was created with AI that hasn't been scrubbed. And then they're spending their time working to fix it and correct it.

[00:10:47] And I think executives need to really try to get the pulse of what is your true employee sentiment around AI? I mean, a lot of companies, ourselves included, we've got a huge, hugely enthusiastic group of people working on AI throughout the company. Everyone's incorporating it into their jobs. We've incorporated questions about it into the performance check-ins. We have awards for it. We have the whole thing. But we also have an AI mandate.

[00:11:16] You have to use AI. So, but what do they really think? And to do that, I think employers need to do things like pulse surveys and things like that to really get at that AI sentiment. Because you're going to lose people. You're going to lose people who are just like, oh, AI, AI, AI. It starts to sound like Charlie Brown's teacher. Like it doesn't, it's not landing. The cynicism is incredibly high. And they're just not seeing.

[00:11:44] It's not that they don't like, they may even like AI and they may even be using AI a lot. But the perception of how much it's driving efficiencies is very skewed, I think, right now between what executives think and what employees are feeling. Yeah, I feel like that's been the case for a while. But, you know, it's interesting to hear you say that because I know a lot of your peers, the HROs, are amongst the respondents.

[00:12:13] But I think that one of the things that came up probably a year or two ago was that leaders weren't even necessarily keeping up with their own AI literacy, which is problematic on many fronts, right? And then the other is, like you said, if you don't take that pulse however you want to take it, whether that's through survey or in Slack or whatever it is, you certainly can't just look at usage, right?

[00:12:41] And say, okay, this person seems to be using AI, you know, two hours a day or whatever. I mean, I think that's not really a good indicator of how effectively people are using it. And then I think one of the points that you were alluding to, I think is really important, is right now some people are using AI and it's actually adding to their plate in one of two ways.

[00:13:06] One is, as you said, they're doing something faster and now they're just moving on and putting more on their own plate, perhaps, which leads to burnout and other problems. The other is, they're having to, they're providing the proper oversight, but that oversight is leading you to iterate more and that adds time to someone's day as well. So none of those things are good.

[00:13:31] These are not good patterns, but part of it is, you know, getting over these, you know, sort of, I guess, growing pains, if you will, in terms of your AI, you know, maturation. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Other topic I wanted to hit on was around, like, the workforce itself and how it's being sort of augmented by AI.

[00:13:56] You talked before about, you know, early career workers, you know, early tenure folks who are going to really take on, ideally take on more high value tasks and, I guess, jump deeper into the pool. In terms of their contribution to the organization. But it's really about how we define and scope those early career roles.

[00:14:22] Because it's important for the long-term success of the organization to, you know, get those people in and immerse them as quickly as possible. While also, of course, you know, expanding on their AI skills. Yeah, I think that more and more the entry-level jobs will be people running agents to do the tasks that they might have been hired to do.

[00:14:46] And that should, if companies are doing this correctly, that should give them more space to get involved in other ways, maybe more apprentice-like, where they're sitting in on more things than just learning. So that it's more about that strategic value, thought leadership type of work. The things that need discernment or, as I think, the skill that they're naming it, they're calling it taste.

[00:15:11] Which is the ability to know if what AI gave to you is good or not and what to do with it. They're calling it taste. So, you know, developing, they'll be developing their taste as they learn to work with these agents. I think that...

[00:15:58] What's the thing that's happening to you is, oh, we don't need people because we've got the AI to do this. We can reduce the number of people, which certainly no one wants to have a bloated payroll. And I would never suggest that you pay people just to keep paying them.

[00:16:14] But I think the trick for all of us and just as humanity is going to be how do we learn to use it and work side by side with it so that it can unlock more in a human's potential and get more out of people versus replacing people. Because otherwise, none of us are going to have any money to buy anything from any company that's running out there anyway. And I don't think anyone wants that.

[00:16:43] So, how do we do this in a way that it gets the most out of people? You know, I've talked to people who talk about, you know, if you've got a sales force and that sales force, each rep can generate X amount of revenue. What if every sales rep had a little AI agent working with them and was producing another half of that or even equal to that? And why would you say, okay, let's get rid of the salespeople and just use the little agent when then you're cutting your revenue off?

[00:17:13] Why wouldn't you just go for more? So, how do you just, how do you look at it? How do you look at it differently? And I think it's such mixed messaging out there. You know, you hear of all these companies who are laying off, you know, tens of thousands of people. So, often as we've talked about ahead of the curve, you know, they're doing it as a forcing factor so that you have no choice but to really enable this technology because you need something to do the work.

[00:17:36] But also what's getting lost in that messaging is it's not always about, yes, the job cuts were a result of AI, but it's not AI doing the jobs. It's freeing up money to pay for the data centers and to pay for the things to build the AI. Right, exactly. Well, there's, yeah, there's a bunch of threads to pull on there. I think that last point is well taken. That has come up in numerous recent conversations.

[00:18:01] And I think it actually ties to one of the observations from your research around, like, are we, is AI moving, like, too fast? So, there's a tension between, like, the speed at which AI is moving, the speed at which, you know, people can actually adopt it. And then, to your point, when people say, well, we know we need to invest in AI, we're not waiting to see the ROI of the technology investments.

[00:18:30] They're saying, we are betting, we're making a very risky bet, in my opinion, to basically cut people in advance of the promise of AI's potential to deliver ROI without thinking strategically about the humans as the lifeblood of why your strategy is even sound to begin with. And who's going to execute that strategy?

[00:19:00] And that humans are the connective tissue between these tasks and activities that you're giving to AI. Yeah, it's like there's like a panic mixed in with a little confusion and delusion going on. You know, there's, it's moving so fast that no one can keep up with it. So, you know, senior executives are just like, use it, use it, use it. But they don't even know what to use it for.

[00:19:22] And a lot of companies and a lot of people, you know, you give that AI mandate and then people just start going out and bolting tools, AI tools, onto things that exist today. And I don't think that's the right way to do it. I did read something, I forget which company, one of the big ones that recently transformed their HR organization. And there's a lot about it I liked and there's a lot about it that I feel looks a little performative and isn't really grounded in anything.

[00:19:48] But what I liked the most is they didn't say, let's slap this on top of the process. They said, okay, if we were going to rebuild this function from the ground up with the tools that we have today and what we think we're going to have in very short order and the way the world is going, how would we build this function? And I think that's where you have to start. You should, it should always be what problem are we trying to solve?

[00:20:12] And it's like this frenetic energy of, well, we've got to use AI because everyone's using AI and if we don't use AI, we're going to fall behind. And but if you don't do it right, you're really going to fall behind because then you're just going to wind up with this big mess that you have to untangle. And starting from what problem are we trying to solve? Because that's actually one of the biggest, I don't know what to call it, about AI is what problem is it solving?

[00:20:38] I mean, certainly there's automation things and there's efficiencies, but when you look at something like, say, Sora, like what problem was that actually solving? It's actually creating more problems than it's solving. That's why there's such a monetization issue with so many of these things is it's, you know, successful. I've seen a lot of people talk about successful products solve a problem. And that that's no one's taking the time to take a step back and start from the problem on anything with this. It's just like, look, here it is.

[00:21:06] Let's let's throw it out there and throw it on top of something. And I just don't think that that's sustainable or is going to position anyone to be successful with it. No, I totally agree. And I think that it's scary when I think about people are cutting heads before they've even established how AI is going to align to the actual business strategy. And because that's the that's the riskiest bet of all, right?

[00:21:33] Like you're just you're just throwing it at the wall and it sticks and you're and you're, you know, impacting lives and livelihoods in the process. So, yeah, people have really got to be thoughtful about why you're taking this on, not just because your competitors are moving fast with AI, but really think through exactly what you're trying to accomplish. I wanted to just circle back on the workforce piece, I guess early career or otherwise.

[00:22:02] But you've spoken a lot about like what we talked about critical thinking. We talked about just what you and I would call discernment. It sounds like the kids are calling it something else. Tastes sounds like a sounds like a vibe check or something. Definitely a vibe check. My daughter would talk about. Yeah.

[00:22:20] But just really thinking about like who you bring on and the sort of criteria that people need to be looking at, whether it's early career, tenured folks like myself, or it's, you know, coming through a traditional, you know, talent acquisition, recruiting funnel or through, you know, an EOR kind of process. No matter what, you need to be looking for these, you know, durable, you know, human skills that we're just talking about.

[00:22:48] And then think about as well, not just individual productivity and individual contributions, but how they're going to impact the effectiveness of the team and the organization and add value to the more strategic things that they're doing. And so some of that ties to like cognitive diversity, right?

[00:23:08] Like how are we get people to think differently, people that have a learning and growth mindset for themselves and they think about the greater good for all the things that they need to accomplish.

[00:23:20] So I just, I feel like I, I guess in my mind as a once in a while candidate, I think that I hope that organizations are always looking for those types of things, but I feel like now more than ever when it's easy, when, when it's just a prompt or, you know, a click away for AI to give you answers on, you know, institutional knowledge and, and some other things. Those human attributes are more important than ever. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:48] I think the human attributes, you know, obviously tech, you want people that are tech savvy, but that almost as we, as the generations, the younger generations move into the workforce, they just are tech savvy. They're born tech savvy. So that becomes less what it's about and it becomes, you know, and it's funny because what I used to talk about not even a year ago, I think has expanded so much on this just with the way things have just changed in the last few months.

[00:24:13] But, you know, I always talked about curiosity being absolutely critical because you have to be curious enough to want to learn about it. Learning agility. So not just the ability to learn quickly, but knowing how to apply that learning, very quick learning to your, to your job. But I'm starting to think about things like courage. You need people who are courageous and they can't be risk averse and they can't be control freaks. You, you can't embrace AI and be a control freak.

[00:24:39] You have to be willing to let something go and let something do something without you interfering in it. And you have to be brave enough to try the new thing and put yourself out there.

[00:24:54] And it's requiring a different level of thought and ability to strategize because those basic things and even some of the more advanced things, you can get an output from, from AI about it as, as a thought partner. So it's really those intrinsic things. I've always been hire what you can't teach person.

[00:25:19] Some of the best people I've ever hired in my entire career are people who on paper might not have been the exact profile for the job. And they turned out to be the absolute best person we ever could have hired for that job because they had, they had curiosity. They had all of those things that you can't teach. The curiosity, the learning agility, just that nimbleness. And they learned the stuff we could teach. They learned so quickly. It worked out great.

[00:25:44] And I think now more than ever, that's what that's about because you can teach people the technical skills to use the AI. Those other things are much harder to teach if not possible. I also think that's, those are attributes that don't necessarily show up on a, on a resume. No. Right. And so when an, if an AI is the one going through the resumes and deciding what resumes are going to get through. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:08] I mean, I think it's part of the, the struggle right now in, in talent acquisition more broadly in terms of, you know, this AI versus AI, you know, cat and mouse game that we're still playing for the foreseeable future. But, but how do we get, you know, beyond that and, and look at the, the more three-dimensional, you know, picture of, of talent in general and making sure that we understand what, what we're really looking for. Right.

[00:26:37] Because you've got sort of an AI generated incomplete picture from the candidate. And then you also have, in most cases, an AI, now an AI generated incomplete picture of what the job entails in the job description. Right. And so now, and then a third AI matching and, and comparing those two things. It's like, what did we actually accomplish? Yeah. It's, it's really hard. You know, it's funny.

[00:27:00] I, um, there's so much in talent acquisition too, with the apps that people can have running on their phone if they're doing a virtual interview that is listening and giving them the answers to the questions and deep fakes. And we've, we've had a couple deep fakes instances on our TA team. And, you know, we're looking into, you know, the, the tools out there to help you, especially because all of our interviews are virtual, you know, to help you discern. And just yesterday, we were talking about one that we like and that we want to pilot.

[00:27:28] And my head of TA, who is one of the most, she is one of the bigger AI enthusiasts that I have. She, she was a little hesitant. She said, but if we pilot it for these junior roles, that we actually want them doing a bunch of research on us and on the job. And so it's okay if they're looking down at notes or looking off to the side, because we want, we want to know that they're prepared. So what if it, you know, rules them out?

[00:27:56] And I said, well, it can rule them out, but you're, you don't have to rule them out because you're still on that call. It can flag it for you, maybe make you think about the call a little harder and think, hmm, did I notice anything myself? But there's still a human in the mix making the decision. You're not going to just disqualify them because a tool told you, oh, you know what, their eye contact wasn't great during that. They might've been reading off of AI. And she, you know, it's funny, typically she'd be the one having to say that to me because like I said, she's one of my bigger AI enthusiasts.

[00:28:26] I make fun of her all the time. She's one of those people who's just like chat GPTs open on her phone all the time. So, but yeah, that's why it's important to at least have some sort of human discernment in the mix so that this doesn't go completely off the rails for everyone. Well, certainly I advocate for any vendor to make sure that they've been thoroughly audited for that type of bias.

[00:28:53] I also know, I think in some countries you can't do eye tracking for legal reasons. Yep, that's true. And then more broadly, I would say hiring teams should be transparent with their AI policies and expectations, right? So you as the employer, here's how our talent acquisition process works and here are our, here's how we use AI.

[00:29:20] If you have questions and concerns about that, you know, here's who to contact. But then here's our expectations as you go through the process for this step, we expect you to use your own brain. And for this step, we know you're going to use AI. We're going to expect you to use AI when you get on the job. So, you know, feel free to use it. I mean, my daughter goes through this in class. This is either an open book or you can have exactly one page, you know, of notes.

[00:29:48] Or this is, part of this is a research project and yes, it's okay to use your reference points. But to your example, Laura, like I feel like it would be important just to know, I mean, the candidate should just feel comfortable saying, listen, I'm not, I'm paying full attention. But, you know, I've been preparing and I've got notes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[00:30:11] So some of the vendors I talked to just at the Unleash conference a few weeks ago, we talked about AI interviewers and some of these topics. And one of the founders told me that if you look at what, there's always things that might distract someone or there's something going on, they're at their home office or whatever it is. There's always going to be some distraction. So it was more about if you are paying attention to that, you're looking for patterns, right? After every question, do they look to the left, right?

[00:30:39] So that might be an indication of, you know, them using a second screen or something like that. So, but I know you guys are on top of the governance and all of these things, which is great. The, just in terms of the function, you know, the HR function itself and the evolution of HR. I mean, how, how do you see it? You've got this amazing, you know, purview, right? Because you're leading the HR team at an HR technology vendor. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:08] And so sort of, sort of meta in that way, but, but you've got obviously a front seat to, to all of this. You can see how your team is, is running things and how effectively and how quickly, you know, they're sort of evolving. But then obviously you've got a huge customer base around the globe where you're, you know, getting a lot of insights from as well.

[00:31:30] So I guess I'm just curious to get your perspective on where HR in general is, is headed and how they're doing in terms of amplifying their impact to the organization, you know, becoming more strategic, becoming real talent advisors that, that people leaders and others across the organization actually, you know, want to engage with because they know you're, you're going to help. Yeah.

[00:33:25] And I think, frankly, it really is going to be able to help.

[00:34:01] And at times we'll get irreverent, silly even, and sometimes geek out on the data and technology that underlie the processes that drive the world of HR. But the conversations are always insightful and fun. So please enjoy the HR Data Labs podcast. The mental space, like you said, to be a strategic talent partner, to spend more time on the value added things and really digging into what's going on in the business and how to really bring the best out in employees.

[00:34:30] And help leaders, coach leaders and managers in more meaningful, robust ways so that they can be getting the most out of their people. And people are feeling valued and feel as though they're learning and they're growing in their job and want to be in your organization. So I really do, especially as you know, when I talk about having that using GIA as that agent, I think what you'll see in HR is we're going to see a much faster track for people who might be entry level in HR.

[00:35:00] In a role that maybe oversees this agent, handles escalations that maybe the agent isn't able to handle the questions. They'll have more time to maybe shadow and attend meetings with more senior business partners and you'll see their trajectory and their ability to grow and be promoted go faster.

[00:35:17] I think we could see huge one area we haven't tapped into yet, but I do want to tap into on my team is how can it help compensation when you start thinking about all the compensation data and the surveys and the lagging aspect of that. And also how time consuming it can be, even with the tools that are available today.

[00:35:39] How can it get all of that muck all straightened out for a comp team so that they can really be getting in there and analyzing this data and figuring out what it means and addressing problems proactively and getting in front of things like compensation issues. I really think that that's not talked about a lot, but since I grew up in comp, it's sort of near and dear to my heart. And I think that that's a place where we'll see a lot of benefits, a lot of benefits from it.

[00:36:09] But this is this is not being in HR right now is not for the weak. That that I will say for sure. Now I can imagine. And then, you know, I was also thinking about your partnership across across the C-suite. Right. And how maybe that has probably evolved as well. Right. I think you've got a relatively new chief product officer, chief revenue officer.

[00:36:35] Yeah, we have a new CRO, a new chief operating officer. They've all been with the company for a long time, though. So it's they're not new off the street and a new chief product officer. So everyone's, you know, getting learning their new roles, learning, learning the new landscape. Super smart people, super collaborative people and actually people who really care about humans, which makes my job easier because I can have the right conversations with them for sure. Yeah, I imagine.

[00:37:05] Is the so does the chief product officer, is he or she come to you as you know, to be the guinea pig for some of this? Oh, yeah. We're the guinea pig. We raise our hands to be the guinea pig. And and yeah, and actually we had an internal move into our team. And it was someone, an HR professional who was working on the product team for Gia during the startup phases of Gia. And now that they're they're out of that phase and they've moved into another phase, she's actually moved to my team.

[00:37:34] And I dropped the hey, could we use it as an agent? And within like three days, we had our plan in place to use it because and that goes to show. And we had one she had one conversation with the product team about how to do it. They thought of something we would have never thought of for how to make it work.

[00:37:49] And that's a really good example of if you give the right people the right resources to the to your teams who know how to use AI and they understand what they're doing on a bigger level than those of us that are just out there learning it day by day and playing with it. How quickly you can do something meaningful.

[00:38:11] But when you let the people just spin and try to figure out how to do it on their own, I think my my chief information officer calls it shadow AI. You wind up with all this shadow AI out there doing things. And and that's that's not what you want. And it it can make a team who I mean, in our case, we've always been embracing it. But, you know, I know there's other teams that I've talked to that they feel there's a perception out there that they're resistant to AI and it's not there. They're resistant to it.

[00:38:40] They don't have the technical skills to do it. They don't have the budget to do it and they don't have the time to do it on their own. So they just need the resources and then they're going to embrace it. So you I think just dumping this thing out there to people. Yeah, you just it's just so important to do it the right way. You just have you have to do it more mindfully. Yeah, there's there's a couple of things I would add there.

[00:39:04] One is the movement itself from one group to another adds some of that cognitive diversity and new train of thought that comes in. Solve a problem from a different perspective. I think is really valuable and one of the benefits of internal mobility. Let's move these people around. They've got this type of mindset or they've got these aspirations. Let's see how those aspirations, those transferable skills, et cetera, align.

[00:39:29] And let's make sure we facilitate that and make sure that the people managers are not hoarding that that talent and are incentivized to sort of cross pollinate, I guess, that that talent elsewhere in the organization. And then I think just having that the flexibility and the almost modesty to say, we don't have all the answers, but I bet, you know, these other people do.

[00:39:57] And let's start to look at, you know, what what skills or what contributions these folks have made. Have they stepped up? Have they shown this this capacity to and desire to to help others, which leads to one of the questions I had for you around, you know, AI is a lot of things. And so when someone says, you know, that they've been using AI and they think they've been using it effectively, are there any mechanisms to actually?

[00:40:25] I don't think certification is the right word, but I've been thinking a lot about how we actually understand what do people really know? I mean, I talk about, you know, this course, the name of the show, AIQ. I talk about AIQ being across skills and tools and mindset and, you know, taking a, you know, responsible by design kind of mentality. But there's a lot of nuance underneath each of those things.

[00:40:51] And when it comes to specific, you know, skills and tools, people are all at different places, which is why I think everyone should be measuring their their AIQ. But in aggregate, you really need to understand, you know, what are what's people's capacity to learn these things? Are they good at teaching others how to do these things and how can they effectively be a sort of champion or change agent or catalyst for the type of change that's needed or widespread? Yeah, I think what we've done for that. Well, there's a couple of things on that. One thing I've told we're lucky.

[00:41:21] We're we have an AI product. We have we're a tech company. We have technical people. But I've had many people approach me at conferences that I speak at or ask questions during the speaking. You know, what do I do? My company isn't a tech company. How do I how do I do this? And what I tell people to do is there is someone at least one person in your company who loves AI on their own and is really into it in their personal life. Pull them in and get them to be a champion for it throughout the organization. And that that's the best way to do it.

[00:41:51] You definitely have an employer or two who's super interested in it and can kind of can kind of beat that that drum for you. You know, we've done so many things with our AI council. And one of the, you know, biggest things we big things we want to do is understand how people are using it. And so we have a few mechanisms in place to do that. We have a Slack channel where people can share ideas, questions, things about what they're doing so we can see it on that.

[00:42:15] And that's everything from and we wind up seeing there everything from how they're using it for business and really fun and creative ways that they're using it on their own for things that are that are pretty funny. So we have that. And then we also we added two questions into our quarterly performance check ins about, you know, how are you using AI? So we get a sense from that. And then we instituted the AI awesomeness awards.

[00:42:39] And every month we people can submit themselves or they can submit someone else the way they've been using AI. And a few people a month get points in our recognition system. And we that's where we're really learning how people are using it.

[00:42:56] And because until you really have formal until you have agentic and AI built into your formal business process in your business processes in a formal way so that you can measure productivity and things like that, it's really hard to get a sense of what's the ROI on this? Is it meaningful how they're using it? So most of our information on how people are using AI are coming through those awards, I would say. And it's helping us a lot to understand. And it's also helping us. It's great. The enthusiasm is great.

[00:43:26] But it's also showing us where the enthusiasm can maybe get you in trouble because the overenthusiastic person asks for help from an AI person who's overly enthusiastic. And they do this great thing.

[00:43:39] And it's not a bad thing, but it's a siloed thing or it's keeping an old way of working going that maybe as an organization and a strategy, we were going to make that go by the wayside and maybe not people aren't aware of that.

[00:43:56] And so you see where when it's happening in these little pockets where you've got some problems and you can try to go in and mitigate that and put mechanisms in place to keep that from happening in that shadow AI. It helps you identify that really well. So some learning opportunities, coaching opportunities, I'll say. Yeah, definitely. So anything that you're using in your personal life that you're particularly intrigued by? Not in my personal life.

[00:44:23] I did just recently switch from ChatGPT to Claude. But I'm proudly Gen X, but I think I'm a boomer when it comes to AI. I'm just like maybe a notch above using it better than you'd use Google. I'm like such a cliche when it comes to that because I have a lot of thoughts about it. But at work, we have Gemini as an organization. So I've been using that a lot. I've gotten in several fights with it. I'm not going to lie.

[00:44:50] I did at one point go to one of our AI product managers and said, all right, what am I doing wrong? Because this and then I found out I didn't have it set on pro and I wasn't. And the way I was prompting it could have been better. So like he helped me calm down. But I've gotten a few tips with it. And I've just started last month. I just dipped my toe in the water with Notebook LM and I'm starting to play with that. I really like it.

[00:45:15] What I don't like about it, like if I have it create a slide and I just want to change like one or two things, I can't edit the slide. And then it's sometimes really hard to get the AI to make the change you want it to make. So I'm still very much a novice with it. But I really I'm very interested in learning more about. I've been like watching a lot of things about people who have gotten got clawed and they set up the whole thing and it's running their whole life. It fascinates me.

[00:45:45] I don't know that I'd ever do it, but I find that fascinating. And I think it were like to come in and have a summary of all your emails and to have had somebody go in and like get all your spam out of your mailbox. That would be great. Yeah. Well, I mean, you're you're making progress. That's pretty good. I'm not. Yeah. If you're using Google Suite across the company, then Gemini is the perfect place to start. So I need I haven't created any gems in Gemini yet myself because I like you. Is it? Well, they don't do any.

[00:46:15] They don't do things. I did. I created. I don't know if I should be admitting this on a podcast. I created a persona for my boss, the CFO, the COO and one for the CEO so that when I am doing communication to them, I can say, you know, this communication is for this person. And then I have one for a combined for the CEO and CFO because I do send a lot to both of them together. And it's amazing. It's amazing how it catches things that are really spot on.

[00:46:45] Yeah. We did not have time today to get into digital twins and having building like a a real almost personalized version of those roles, not just generic CFOs, but your CFO and how they may react. Or it's the audience is the CFO, but, you know, the CIO is going to read it also.

[00:47:11] And what is, you know, is your phone going to ring five minutes later from someone you least expect? So it sort of ties to the concept of cognitive diversity, but you've got, you know, digital versions of folks who can't necessarily be in the room with you when you're, you know, in that meeting or, you know, writing that that communication. So it's an interesting concept and not everyone, I mean, you know how it is trying to get everyone's calendars in sync.

[00:47:39] And I think, you know, the gems, I know I'm not, again, that's another thing I'm using them, but I know I'm not even coming close to using the way I could. I know there's people on my team who have built gems that are actually like doing things for them. And throughout the company, we've got so many people who've created them that now we're trying to set up some sort of gem library so that others can access those, which I think is great. But yeah, I am, I view, I feel like I'm almost like too old to get too into it.

[00:48:06] And like my purpose with all of this is to try and help the organization and help organizations do it in a way that is most beneficial to human beings. Because I just think that this is such a really rough time to be alive right now and trying to do all of this, for lack of a better way of saying. It's a lot. I mean, I'm immersed in it every single day and I still think it's a lot.

[00:48:32] So I can only imagine when it's like for someone who's got a day job to, you know, run a business, you know, manage a team and do all the things that it takes to keep the business successful while also, you know, finding time to embrace this. But I do think it's important as organizations transform, as they evolve and as they think about, you know, the long-term, you know, strategy that this is, this is part of it.

[00:48:58] I mean, humans plus AI is the future of work and perhaps in our personal lives as well. And so, yeah, I encourage everyone of all, you know, generations of all walks of life to get comfortable with it. And it does take time. It does take, you know, tinkering and experimentation. And, but it's important for people to learn from each other.

[00:49:23] It sounds like you've got an organization that's really, you know, jumped in with both feet, which is, which is great. And if you're a solopreneur and independent person like myself, find a community, find a cohort that's along the journey with you because you're not in this alone. And there's a lot of tips and tricks you can learn from others. Yes, there sure is. Laura, this has been fantastic. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you.

[00:49:47] Any final thoughts or takeaways or anything coming from GP that we should know about? I don't think so. I would just keep your eye on Gia because I think that the momentum we have going behind that and what that can do for HR teams in a really smart way, in a really, really smart way. It's valid information, trusted. Our security is top notch. It's just, and the team is so smart and so great. So I would just keep your eye on Gia for sure.

[00:50:16] I will make sure to put a link in the show notes so people can check out Gia. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Thanks so much again, Laura. And thanks everyone for listening. We will see you next time.