Recruit the Best Talent Globally

[00:00:00] I'm Felicia Shakiba, and this is CPO PLAYBOOK, where we solve a business challenge in every episode.

[00:00:14] In 2024, geographical boundaries no longer confine your talent search. With remote work breaking down barriers, you have access to a global talent pool,

[00:00:25] whether it's professionals enjoying coffee in Paris or brainstorming in a Swiss chalet, top-tier talent is within reach.

[00:00:33] Yet managing hiring across numerous countries with diverse leadership and cultures can be quite complex.

[00:00:41] How do we devise a top-notch global talent acquisition strategy that addresses the nuances of various cultures,

[00:00:49] promotes talent diversity and adapts to differing candidate experiences from one country or team to another?

[00:00:56] It's tricky. Today we have a remarkable guest who will guide us through the process.

[00:01:01] James Ayers serves as the global talent acquisition leader at ArcLink with an extensive career journey that includes 12 years at Intuit and several years at Okta,

[00:01:11] plus starting off with his own recruitment company, Blackstone Consultants in the early 2000s.

[00:01:17] James, welcome to the show.

[00:01:21] Well, thank you for having me.

[00:01:23] I'm excited to chat with you today. We have already had some amazing chats. This is going to be no exception.

[00:01:29] James, throughout your extensive career crafting global talent acquisition strategies across various organizations,

[00:01:39] what would you identify as the most significant challenges that you've encountered?

[00:01:45] Great question. When you think about it, the first thing that comes to mind is finding talent, but that would be a road use.

[00:01:52] The biggest challenge is mindset. It's not the mindset of the candidates.

[00:01:58] It's actually the mindset of the team that's helping you interview.

[00:02:02] It's having that leadership skill set. So what are we doing here? Why are we hiring? What is it we're looking for?

[00:02:11] How do we measure it? What tools do we use? And how do we say this is a successful campaign? What KPIs do we use?

[00:02:19] All these things, you have to get alignment. And the alignment is essentially the key to having a successful run out on your recruitment.

[00:02:28] Those things, everyone's got different opinions. And so when we think about how we are going to shape it, you have to take all those ideas into consideration.

[00:02:38] So really the biggest thing is getting a line, that whole mindset about what we're looking at.

[00:02:42] And what does awesome look like in a candidate? And how do we evaluate it?

[00:02:47] And how do you gain insights into local markets, thinking about your global experience needing to be in multiple different countries sometimes?

[00:02:58] How do you look at those insights to really understand candidates' journeys in different parts of the world?

[00:03:06] I learned a lot in my experience by having obstacles that we think this is the path to go and we take this path and something doesn't work.

[00:03:16] And so the first thing is we can't assume that what works in the United States, we're in Canada or Australia, is all the same.

[00:03:23] Each market is unique. But the journey of the candidate and how they arrive there, it can be somewhat similar.

[00:03:31] I'll give you an example. When we think about the journey of a candidate, typically there's like five or six different points that they have to touch on to verify whether or not they want to apply for a position.

[00:03:45] It could be everything from LinkedIn to Glassdoor to Instagram to friends that work in an organization.

[00:03:53] They have to get all that feedback and understanding, do I want to apply to this company? Or do I want to pass?

[00:03:59] They look at scores in the system. They'll look at the company's ratings, and then they'll make a determination if they want to pursue.

[00:04:06] I think anywhere you go in the world, people that want careers and grow, they want to find a company that's going to help them get there.

[00:04:12] And these are touch points that a lot of candidates go through no matter where you are in the world.

[00:04:17] Now, how they are attracted to a company is different. Some places referrals are the number one thing in the world.

[00:04:25] They say, hey, come on, join us. Other cases is actually brand, the actual company logo.

[00:04:30] They see a company, they go, wow, what a great company. They don't know anything about it, but they recognize the brand.

[00:04:35] And so being able to create a brand that attracts the type of profile and candidate that you're looking for, that is along the values of your company, where you stand for from a brand standpoint,

[00:04:47] that's a challenge. And you have to be there in the forefront and have that vision before you even start to work in all these other countries.

[00:04:55] So there's a lot of different steps, but it's almost like when we go and we want to buy a product, you see a pair of shoes in a store.

[00:05:03] And those of you that don't know what malls are, they were these ancient places, still brick and mortar that I used to go to.

[00:05:09] Now they seem to be disappearing. But let's just say for our sake, you're going through a mall and you see a pair of shoes that you class really cool.

[00:05:16] Most likely, certainly back then, certainly now to a point, you'll go and verify the price of that at other stores that would carry it if you're looking for the best price.

[00:05:25] But some people might say I value the customer service at this organization more than the price.

[00:05:30] It justifies why I would go to this place versus that place. It's almost like going to a restaurant.

[00:05:36] Where do you order that restaurant versus this restaurant? All these little data points are different for everyone.

[00:05:42] And it's so different when you come into recruitment and try to hire the top talent.

[00:05:47] They all have these different data points that they have to verify before they apply.

[00:05:50] I want to dig into how you ensure hiring processes and practices are inclusive.

[00:05:59] I feel like this is one of the hardest things to get because we're looking at resumes when we're recruiting.

[00:06:06] We're looking at how exciting it could be for some individual to work at the business and satisfy the need of the role.

[00:06:14] But when we're thinking about building teams, we're not just looking at the individual.

[00:06:19] We're looking at how this person comes into the team.

[00:06:22] We're looking at making sure there's little to no bias in the process.

[00:06:27] So how do you ensure the processes and practices are inclusive?

[00:06:31] When I think about looking at inclusivity and I look at things that are within the teams and recruitment,

[00:06:39] everyone has got a strong vision as to what works and what doesn't work.

[00:06:44] Ultimately, all these things need to be paid attention to.

[00:06:48] When I look at teams and we think about we want to have individuals from specific backgrounds, demographics,

[00:06:55] the key is everyone has to be on the same page.

[00:06:59] It's a mindset. It's not something that recruiters need to go out and find.

[00:07:04] It's something where we need to as an organization believe it.

[00:07:07] And when we look at inclusive teams, one of the first lessons I ever learned was when we have interview teams,

[00:07:15] they should be reflective of the organization that you are.

[00:07:19] So there should be an inclusive interview team, not just trying to find individuals that are from different backgrounds.

[00:07:26] And it's one of those aha moments.

[00:07:28] And I'll tell you that the aha moment came when we, a company that I used to work at,

[00:07:35] were focused on hiring individuals from a specific background.

[00:07:40] And we were losing. We weren't doing well.

[00:07:43] And so I kind of went through like, what are we not? What's not working?

[00:07:48] And I kept on looking inward at our company.

[00:07:51] It was a questions. We were certainly attracting talent, but they weren't choosing us.

[00:07:57] I couldn't understand why we were giving money or doing all these things.

[00:08:01] And then it dawned on me one of the lessons that I've learned is that in order to really get deep insights,

[00:08:08] you have to find out what your customer wants, what their needs are, what they're looking for.

[00:08:16] And in this case, especially with talent, your customers are either hiring managers or in a lot of cases, candidates.

[00:08:24] So we created a survey and wanted to find out what worked, what didn't.

[00:08:30] But we did more than just a survey like send somebody an Excel spreadsheet.

[00:08:33] They filled us up. There's no skew in the game for that.

[00:08:37] We actually did phone calls. We did video calls. We just want to learn what we have done better.

[00:08:43] And the biggest thing that came back was as someone that came from a different background,

[00:08:48] when they came into the interview, they didn't see anybody like them.

[00:08:53] They felt isolated. They felt like they were the only one.

[00:08:58] And it made me realize we weren't doing what we said we were going to do.

[00:09:02] And that was having an inclusive organization that includes your interview teams.

[00:09:06] And we weren't doing that. And so immediately across the board, any job has to be a reflection of exactly what our company is.

[00:09:15] And that was a big aha moment. And after that, things really started to change

[00:09:19] because they saw people that they could actually emulate with and people that they felt comfortable with.

[00:09:24] That made a big difference.

[00:09:27] I wonder how far up that goes in the sense of you have to have an inclusive recruiting team or panel, let's say,

[00:09:38] for a candidate to actually meet and see people with different perspectives or similar perspectives,

[00:09:45] knowing what kind of culture they come into. Right.

[00:09:48] But then in order to get that, you need inclusive leadership right above them.

[00:09:53] And then you need an inclusive executive team.

[00:09:56] Would you say that is true? That there's the flow there that needs to happen or not so much?

[00:10:01] Yeah, you totally need it.

[00:10:03] And sometimes you have to actually have pockets of where it's thriving.

[00:10:07] You need to have that champion that believes in the cause that you're doing and to show the illustration like this makes such a massive difference.

[00:10:15] There's also a lot of cases companies think that we have to hire certain individuals and we're there.

[00:10:21] And I've learned that you're never there. You're always going to be growing.

[00:10:25] You're always going to be looking for top talent.

[00:10:27] And regardless, you have to have the body and from the top it makes a lot easier when you have it from the top down.

[00:10:35] But a lot of cases you have to take examples of smaller teams where an experience because we measure candidate experience

[00:10:44] and something that I think is so vital to improvement that when you have a positive outcome for any candidate,

[00:10:52] even if they don't get the job, that starts your social media chain of where people are talking about positive experiences.

[00:11:00] And in our world, 90 percent of the time we tell people bad news.

[00:11:05] We make that experience so that they feel included and that they have an opportunity to apply back if they had a good experience.

[00:11:13] And that whole inclusivity has to grow within pockets and then show the difference it made not only to the individual that we hired,

[00:11:23] but the experiences of that came true.

[00:11:26] The difference it makes to the team all the way up the chain to the point where it's like this is just a no brainer.

[00:11:32] We shouldn't be talking about this. It should be something that naturally comes.

[00:11:36] And that's what I like to build is an environment organically, even before someone decides to apply.

[00:11:44] They know the logo. They know the company. They've seen the reviews. They go positive experiences.

[00:11:49] Yeah, this is fabulous. They take away all those fears that they will be treated well,

[00:11:54] that they'll be evaluated exactly the way everyone should be evaluated

[00:11:58] and that everyone that they interview is an inclusive and demographically equal breakdown. Big difference.

[00:12:06] I want to go back to something you said, candidate experience.

[00:12:11] What are the biggest factors that?

[00:12:14] I'm like, yeah, I know what I'm going to say.

[00:12:17] That pincher. The candidate experience.

[00:12:20] Yeah, it's not the shirt that you wear. I mean, at the end of the day, it's a candidate experience.

[00:12:25] You know, I have to go back to, you know, I've been doing this for a few years now.

[00:12:30] And candidate experience was something that when I first started wasn't even in the ballpark.

[00:12:37] If I can use that term, it wasn't even on the playing field.

[00:12:40] The other day, the employer was the one that said, I got the job.

[00:12:43] You want it? Show me what you can do.

[00:12:46] And things have changed.

[00:12:48] And when we look at things now that have come to the forefront like candidate experience,

[00:12:52] it actually comes from the mindset of almost like a product mind shift.

[00:12:57] It's borrowed from the sense of that everyone that we meet in the world,

[00:13:02] depending on what company you work for is potentially a customer.

[00:13:05] And if we treat our candidates like potential customers, does our mindset change in how we look at them?

[00:13:12] And really, ultimately, it shouldn't.

[00:13:15] It should be something where we treat everyone like they are people and humans

[00:13:20] and that they have an opportunity to make a difference at a company.

[00:13:23] But in the past, years and years ago, that wasn't even on the forefront.

[00:13:27] And so now you fast forward and go, OK, can experience.

[00:13:30] Why is that important?

[00:13:32] I touched on it earlier.

[00:13:33] In my world, out of all the applications that we get in, the majority of them don't get the job.

[00:13:39] And it's not because it's a lack of trying.

[00:13:42] It's just the competition is so immense.

[00:13:45] The idea is if we have the philosophy and mindset that anyone that comes to our company,

[00:13:50] first off, honored that you would choose my company.

[00:13:54] Your application process.

[00:13:55] What was that like when you came through?

[00:13:57] Did someone reach out to you within 24 hours?

[00:14:00] When you did have an interview with a candidate, how did that go?

[00:14:03] How did you feel when you moved to progress through the actual interview teams?

[00:14:07] Did you feel like you had an inclusive nature?

[00:14:10] Did you feel comfortable?

[00:14:12] All these test points are the same thing that we would do if we were buying a car

[00:14:17] or if we were going to a restaurant, how you would feel throughout the whole process.

[00:14:22] Because if someone is going through this and they don't get the job,

[00:14:27] the one thing we can control is how they're treated.

[00:14:30] And if we do those things right, maybe it didn't come to terms on dollars.

[00:14:33] Maybe it was just there was another candidate.

[00:14:35] And what I found that is when candidates go through a positive experience

[00:14:40] and they provide their feedback, like I'm looking, how can we get better?

[00:14:43] If we do that diligently, then nine out of 10 are going to come back and say,

[00:14:48] I want to go work there.

[00:14:50] And it's something that actually I went through myself early in my career.

[00:14:54] There was a company that I interviewed with and I didn't get the job.

[00:14:58] I was gutted.

[00:15:00] I was literally so like, oh, so wanted.

[00:15:03] But the way they made me feel made me realize I got to keep my eyes on that company

[00:15:10] and I'm going to do everything I can so that next time I do get that job

[00:15:14] and I got to learn from all the things that maybe I wasn't so great at.

[00:15:17] And sure enough, six months later, got back in the process

[00:15:22] and this time nailed it and I nailed it.

[00:15:25] I want to drill down to the nitty gritty of things.

[00:15:31] How do you localize job descriptions and requirements appropriately

[00:15:36] for these various markets that are completely different from one another?

[00:15:41] I'll tell you, you learn by, so I'm Canadian, I'm Canadian,

[00:15:45] so it seems like anywhere I go in the world, Canadians are known for saying,

[00:15:49] I'm sorry, which is funny because I'm like, well, we didn't do anything,

[00:15:52] but we're known for saying sorry.

[00:15:53] So whenever I'm in another country and they hear me say, oh, sorry,

[00:15:56] whether I'm opening up a door or are you Canadian?

[00:15:59] It's one of those things that just goes with being Canadian.

[00:16:02] And the other piece is humor.

[00:16:04] I think for a lot of Canadians, we have a lot of Canadians

[00:16:07] that are in the business of humor.

[00:16:09] And so going to new markets, going with a mindset

[00:16:13] and also with a heart that wants to do the best,

[00:16:17] a lot of times when going to these markets and posting positions,

[00:16:21] you just cookie cut it.

[00:16:23] You take the job description in the United States or Canada

[00:16:26] and you post it in the other country and all right, why aren't they applying?

[00:16:31] What you realize is that the way words are spelled,

[00:16:37] the way they're laid out, slang is different in every country.

[00:16:42] And I'll give you an example.

[00:16:43] I'll give you two examples.

[00:16:45] One example, for one company I was based in Australia, Sydney, Australia,

[00:16:50] and we had a job description and I wanted to get it posted.

[00:16:54] So I took the job posting, I think from Canadian jobs, and just posted it.

[00:17:00] And we got into the interview process with some candidates.

[00:17:03] And two of the final candidates said,

[00:17:06] hey, you know, it's been a great experience

[00:17:08] because we were asking how was your experience?

[00:17:10] I said, it's great.

[00:17:11] Everyone is treating me well.

[00:17:12] I do have one suggestion.

[00:17:14] I said, okay, great.

[00:17:16] Change your job description.

[00:17:17] I said, why?

[00:17:18] What's wrong?

[00:17:19] They said, you're using American English.

[00:17:22] And we want to feel as Australians that we're working for an Australian company

[00:17:26] because we feel like if we work in an organization where it's just an afterthought,

[00:17:33] as people we don't know if you know our market.

[00:17:37] Are you valuing how we speak, how we talk, how we write?

[00:17:42] And I realized the littlest of things to me could be the biggest.

[00:17:47] That was one big aha to literally where I changed job descriptions completely

[00:17:51] and went, you know what?

[00:17:52] Why don't we do video job descriptions with an Australian?

[00:17:56] Where they could actually talk this thing.

[00:17:57] Because I don't understand Australian sometimes.

[00:17:59] And half my family is Australian.

[00:18:01] So good on you, mate.

[00:18:02] I was like, what are you talking about?

[00:18:04] I don't even know what's going on.

[00:18:05] But it's one of those things where we celebrate the differences,

[00:18:08] but we also learn from the things that make us go, huh, didn't know that.

[00:18:13] So that was an aha moment just in certain words.

[00:18:17] The word color is spelled differently in Australia.

[00:18:20] Certain things that are have a U at 7-0, they're normal.

[00:18:24] But to somebody that's in that country,

[00:18:27] when they see spelling different than what is normal in their country,

[00:18:32] they immediately go, is that a yellow flag or are they just not aware?

[00:18:37] It takes away from the splendor of the candidate experience because they go.

[00:18:41] I think that's a good example.

[00:18:42] I can relate to that when I'm hiring and I'm in an interview with someone

[00:18:47] or with a candidate, I can tell what kind of experiences they've had,

[00:18:51] depending on the type of vernacular that they might use.

[00:18:55] And so they're tiny details that impact how great impact.

[00:19:01] Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:19:02] And the other thing too, that's kind of neat is that even if I take it closer to home,

[00:19:07] I'm in Canada and Canada, of course, you've got mountains in the West,

[00:19:10] you've got sea of Atlantic East, and we have provinces, not states.

[00:19:16] So even now I kind of chuckle when I see some job postings that mention the state in Canada.

[00:19:23] It makes me go, huh, they didn't put province.

[00:19:26] So it makes you kind of think, OK, do they know the market?

[00:19:29] But it's also one of those things that like in certain places,

[00:19:32] like the province of Quebec, our French hub, Canada,

[00:19:36] it's important that positions are posted in French

[00:19:39] because it's actually along the lines of the law.

[00:19:42] And those are things that also make a huge difference

[00:19:45] in that you understand those particular matters

[00:19:48] that only somebody that would have done their due diligence into the province would be aware of.

[00:19:53] And that makes a huge difference, especially when you are coming from outside.

[00:19:57] It just shows those individuals that, hey, good for them.

[00:20:00] They figure that one out.

[00:20:01] I'm going to continue this journey.

[00:20:05] I want to spring back up to a more high level question

[00:20:09] because I know that when working with various leaders and helping them hire,

[00:20:15] I'm sure you've encountered some resistors to your process or your strategy.

[00:20:20] Can you share an example of this?

[00:20:22] And what was the outcome?

[00:20:24] Never. We know that never.

[00:20:26] For recruits taking too long to hire, it's always hiring managers' fault.

[00:20:30] It's not the luck.

[00:20:31] It's very common.

[00:20:33] When we think about the resistance, it's a point of view.

[00:20:36] It's coming in saying, hey, I got a great idea.

[00:20:38] I want to try and do this recruit.

[00:20:39] And someone's like, oh, this is how we do it.

[00:20:41] I've come across a few.

[00:20:43] A lot of times it comes into systematic processes.

[00:20:48] I've never heard a hiring manager that sees a different point of view saying,

[00:20:53] hey, I want to use these other behavioral-based interview questions and competencies.

[00:20:57] If I did, I'd love that.

[00:20:58] That's always a great thing.

[00:20:59] It's typically based around skills.

[00:21:01] It's basically based around a resume or company they've come from.

[00:21:06] And a lot of times it's because they had bad experiences once or twice.

[00:21:11] And part of it is to unwind that.

[00:21:13] Some markets we call it baggage.

[00:21:16] In other markets, it's just bad experiences that they would have had.

[00:21:19] And so to illustrate a way or a path forward, one, getting back to that alignment.

[00:21:25] Every recruiter that I've worked with, including myself, at any level,

[00:21:30] one of the first things you do as a recruiter is you sit down,

[00:21:32] you have a hiring plan or intake call.

[00:21:35] What are some of the KPIs or the ROI on this position?

[00:21:39] We get pretty deep.

[00:21:41] And part of that is so that hiring managers and recruiters are aligned

[00:21:46] not just to skills, but what is the scope of this role

[00:21:50] and where are we going with it?

[00:21:52] Because if we're all aligned as we go through our hiring plan,

[00:21:55] then we should be aligned in how we evaluate that because it's on that form.

[00:21:59] But when we're changing points of view,

[00:22:01] one of the best pieces of advice I would provide anyone is

[00:22:06] you can't just come in and say,

[00:22:09] we're doing it this way because that's the way it works.

[00:22:12] You have to illustrate through experiences.

[00:22:16] So I mentioned a little bit about candidate experience.

[00:22:19] We actually measure the candidate experience for numerous reasons,

[00:22:22] not only how they involve themselves with the company.

[00:22:24] Part of that is also to provide feedback to the interviewers.

[00:22:28] I've worked with companies before where candidates said,

[00:22:31] hey, I'd love to come work there, but I just didn't have a great experience.

[00:22:34] Could be everything from questions that were asked or appropriate

[00:22:38] or cameras were not turned on.

[00:22:40] If you're doing Zoom or a Teams call, you need these vital information.

[00:22:44] Essentially what you're doing is you're collecting data

[00:22:47] and you're trying to influence with data.

[00:22:49] Because when you have data, it's not my opinion

[00:22:53] and it's not a hiring manager's opinion, it's the customer.

[00:22:56] And the customer or the process is ultimately what is the determining factor

[00:23:02] on whether somebody is not.

[00:23:04] If you're selling a product, you would look at your sales figures.

[00:23:08] If it was something along the lines of performance as an athlete,

[00:23:13] did you run faster this week versus last week or this week?

[00:23:16] What did you do?

[00:23:18] By providing that data, that's how you lead.

[00:23:21] And part of that data collection,

[00:23:23] look at all the sources and how we measure,

[00:23:26] there's 20, 30 different types of data points you can pull from

[00:23:30] that all can point in a certain direction.

[00:23:33] And so the biggest thing is when working with managers or leaders

[00:23:38] that aren't in the same mindset that we are,

[00:23:43] we have to get them there as part of what our jobs

[00:23:46] take them on the journey.

[00:23:48] And part of that journey is come on in, I got to drive the car,

[00:23:52] you're going to sit next to me and I'm going to show you the pathway

[00:23:55] that our candidates take and how they feel.

[00:23:58] And here's the data, whether it's on Glassdoor,

[00:24:00] whether it's on LinkedIn, maybe it's the number of hits,

[00:24:03] number of re-applications, referral, all these different things lead into

[00:24:08] why data is so vital and how we can change mindsets

[00:24:12] using that data is vital.

[00:24:14] I love that you said and talked about data

[00:24:16] because I think both qualitative and quantitative data are equally important.

[00:24:21] And I want to jump into my last question because during our previous

[00:24:27] conversations you hinted at your unique approach to recruiting

[00:24:31] and hiring exceptional talent, referring to it as your secret sauce.

[00:24:36] Could you share how recruiters can pinpoint precisely

[00:24:41] the right candidate to pursue?

[00:24:43] It's something I learned.

[00:24:45] It's something that I saw done and I went, what a cool idea.

[00:24:48] And it was something I went through personally.

[00:24:50] And so the secret sauce is this, if you're a recruiter,

[00:24:54] a lot of times you're getting a list of demands almost.

[00:24:57] These are the things I need to have and need to be a proper unicorn

[00:25:01] or whatever you're looking.

[00:25:02] It's difficult to understand, okay, am I looking for skills?

[00:25:05] Am I looking for competencies?

[00:25:07] I don't even quite understand the job.

[00:25:09] I'm reading the job description.

[00:25:10] I got a general idea.

[00:25:11] Maybe I've hopped on YouTube and what exactly is SQL?

[00:25:15] Do you code? What's that like Java?

[00:25:17] I don't know how to do that.

[00:25:19] The question is this, how are you going to know the person

[00:25:24] that you need to hire unless you understand the role?

[00:25:29] Early in my career, great piece of advice had been given to me

[00:25:32] that I was struggling with a role.

[00:25:34] I think it was actually in a call center at early days.

[00:25:37] And I was working at this call center.

[00:25:40] And so I used to know, the kids were asking me like how my

[00:25:42] calls are making and what the day is like for them,

[00:25:46] where the pluses, the minuses.

[00:25:48] They said why don't you go hang out with the call center people?

[00:25:52] I said really?

[00:25:53] Yeah, go sit with them.

[00:25:55] Find out how they do it.

[00:25:56] Watch them.

[00:25:57] Study them.

[00:25:58] So I went okay.

[00:25:59] I thought it was a free day.

[00:26:00] I was like well I don't have to work here.

[00:26:01] I'm just going to hang out with the call center people.

[00:26:03] And what it gave me was such a richness of getting

[00:26:08] to the real crux of what you're hiring for.

[00:26:13] The individuals, why they chose the job.

[00:26:15] I spoke to probably 15 people on the floor of that call center

[00:26:18] that day.

[00:26:19] What do you love about the job?

[00:26:20] What don't you love about the job?

[00:26:21] What do you spend most of your time doing?

[00:26:23] Tell me the system you're working in.

[00:26:24] Do you have to actually manually put that in every single

[00:26:26] time?

[00:26:27] Do you like that part?

[00:26:28] What things do you enjoy?

[00:26:29] What things don't you enjoy?

[00:26:30] And you just study it.

[00:26:32] And as recruiters, this is like you're literally sitting

[00:26:35] in a forum watching people do what they do and you're

[00:26:38] picking up on all these things.

[00:26:40] At the time I was like this is fascinating.

[00:26:42] Now we call them like follow me home or in marketing.

[00:26:47] A lot of times it's when they give a product to a potential

[00:26:50] customer and everyone goes behind the glass window and

[00:26:53] they kind of watch people play with stuff.

[00:26:55] They go look how they do it.

[00:26:56] They're studying the behavior of how that person interacts

[00:26:59] with the product.

[00:27:00] And this is the same thing as recruiters.

[00:27:02] You cannot be expected to go and hire a job,

[00:27:06] which all you have is a word job description and know

[00:27:10] that you found that person.

[00:27:12] So sitting with them, and I call them embedded,

[00:27:15] before you even start talking to candidates,

[00:27:19] you need to understand the environment,

[00:27:22] the people that work there, what they like,

[00:27:25] what they don't like.

[00:27:26] And you can get so much from a hiring manager,

[00:27:28] but when you're living it and breathing it,

[00:27:30] you have to walk a day in the shoes,

[00:27:32] walk a day in the shoes and you understand what the

[00:27:35] challenges are, what the successes are.

[00:27:38] And that way, when you're actually talking with

[00:27:40] candidates, you have a better understanding of

[00:27:43] what works and what doesn't.

[00:27:45] And so the candidate who really wants to have that

[00:27:47] type of career will be hopefully impressed by that

[00:27:51] recruiter knowing so many details about a position

[00:27:54] that they will become more and more interested in

[00:27:57] the positions that go on the journey.

[00:27:59] So it's something that I don't tell our recruiters

[00:28:02] now just to do a day.

[00:28:04] I actually tell them to go for a week and just

[00:28:06] really get to know it.

[00:28:07] So that's a huge one.

[00:28:08] That's great advice.

[00:28:10] And James, thank you so much for being here today

[00:28:14] and sharing your incredible insights on how to

[00:28:17] create this amazing global town acquisition strategy.

[00:28:22] Thank you so much for being here.

[00:28:24] Oh, it's been a pleasure.

[00:28:26] And thank you so much for the time.

[00:28:28] What a great platform.

[00:28:29] Thank you.

[00:28:32] That's James Ayers, Global Town Acquisition

[00:28:35] Leader at ArcLink from Canada.

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[00:28:58] See you next Wednesday and thanks for listening.

[00:29:05] Thank you.