Ep 81 - Retention Report: Will pay transparency make 2023 the year of retention?

[00:00:00] And we're live. Welcome to another episode of Comp and Coffee. I could not be more excited today because not only am I joined by my usual partner in compensation, Ruth, but Amy Stewart is back, our Associate Director of Content Marketing here at Payscale. And we have got

[00:00:36] brand new, very exciting research to share with you. It's really a first of its kind look at the top reasons that employees are considering leaving their jobs, but especially really looking at how pay transparency is impacting that. And, you know, becoming more

[00:00:53] transparent is a big impact here. We're going to find out more. I want to, I want to spoiler alert, you know, I will let Amy give us a lot more detail on that. Got quite a bit of

[00:01:01] coverage already in the press, but we wanted to dive in a little bit and spend a lot more time than Amy might typically get on a soundbite with a major outlet and really dive into the

[00:01:08] details here. And Amy, as I think listeners know, head of our, all of our research, she writes this stuff. So who better to talk to about the details of all this? So, so Amy,

[00:01:18] give us the highlight, like what was the goal of this report and what are we, what are we starting to learn? Thank you, Russ. Yes. We're really excited about this one. I think that the retention

[00:01:29] report is going to be very useful for our HR leaders and comp professionals audience in particular, because our main goal was to take a look at pay transparency specifically and try to understand is it impacting retention or attrition being another way to look at

[00:01:47] that. And the way we do that is we have a online salary survey that you're probably familiar with that individuals, both job seekers and currently employed individuals can take. And we apply data science and logistic aggression to some questions that they answer in that

[00:02:05] survey. So one of the questions is, is pay at your organization a transparent process on a Likert scale of one to five? And that is deliberately written in that way because pay transparency has many different emanations across many organizations. And so we want

[00:02:21] it to be as straightforward as possible, but we get, we analyzed over half a million responses of folks who are taking this survey. And then we correlate that using logistic aggression on another question that I answer, which is whether they are looking for a new job in

[00:02:38] the next six months. And using that analysis, we can determine how pay transparency is impacting intent to leave. And then the second piece of this report is to look at pay transparency against other factors. If you ask people, what are the big reasons that someone leaves

[00:02:55] an organization, pay transparency is not going to be top of mind as the reason that someone either stays or goes. So we also ask some of the bigger questions that people tend to associate with turnover. So we asked whether or not individuals think that their company

[00:03:12] has a bright future, whether or not they think their pay is fair, about the company culture being positive and productive, and whether they have a good relationship with their manager. As you have probably heard many times, a lot of people say, people leave managers,

[00:03:28] not jobs. And we wanted to look and validate whether or not that was true. We wanted to look at that in association with pay transparency to see what the impact was against other factors that people often associate with retention and turnover.

[00:03:44] Oh, wow. I can't wait to dive into this in detail. But one of the things that I think many of our audience members might be thinking about right now is why did we decide to do a

[00:03:52] retention study right now? I mean, isn't the economy in a place where retention's not our number one concern? Like why did we decide that was a really important thing to take a look at?

[00:04:00] I love that you asked that question. I would say that retention is always an important thing for organizations to look out regardless of what is happening in the economy. But you're

[00:04:09] right. In the beginning of the year, there was a lot of doom and gloom about what was going to go on. And later in this year, a lot of prophetic foretelling that we are going to be in a recession,

[00:04:21] either mild or deep by this time. And it was going to be devastating. And when there is a recession, that typically flips an employee market to an employer market, which means that your ability to hang on to employees becomes easier and your market competition becomes a little bit

[00:04:40] less competitive because of all of the labor that's available in the market. However, I watched the labor data pretty regularly. And I had a good gut feeling based on what was happening in the data from the BLS, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that if there was a

[00:04:57] recession, it was not going to be deep, that the labor market was going to continue to be competitive just based on the numbers that I was seeing six months ago. And so far, I think that

[00:05:07] that has panned out. We're past the Great Resignation. Things are cooled off from where they were in 2021 and 2022. But I would not describe our current labor market as a recession market, particularly in regards to just how you either continue to compete for top talent. And that

[00:05:26] also means how you're going to retain the current talent that you have. Yeah, I think we're both aligned on that at the beginning of the year, Amy, weren't we, when we were thinking about what were

[00:05:34] the potential predictions and where would we be steering thought leadership and what we talked about here at PayScale this year. And I think we both concurred on declaring 2023 the year of retention and really focusing on the talent that you have, developing that talent and retaining

[00:05:52] that talent has proved to be critical and continues to be critical for this year. So maybe we should do like a lottery ticket together or something, Amy, do you think? Oh, I mean, if you could look at data to determine what the winning numbers were going to be,

[00:06:06] absolutely. But I don't think that's how lottery tickets work. Silly, silly, full random numbers. But yeah, I agree with you both, couldn't agree more. And I am excited that there are signs that things are maybe not as bad as some people think.

[00:06:21] But let's talk outcomes, Amy. Like what did you what were some of the early insights? What did you guys start to see there when you dug into the data? Yeah, it's pretty exciting. So when we analyze the impact of paid transparency on intent to leave by

[00:06:33] itself, we find that intent to leave decreases as paid transparency increases. So if you're a paid transparency level one, you're going to have a lot more people leaving than if you're a paid transparency level five. And again, those levels are not like on a specific rubric. This

[00:06:50] is individuals who are responding to a question, how transparent is pay at your organization? But we can still give a pretty nice correlation on intent to leave with those numbers. And again, we have over half a million people participating in this survey, which gives us pretty high

[00:07:06] confidence in those numbers. And what we find is that intent to leave decreases at an average of 30% with each level. So the more transparent you become, the less likely the people are to leave your organization, again, 30% probability on average, which is very exciting.

[00:07:28] Yeah, and that doesn't surprise me at all, really. I mean, paid transparency has become such a hot topic. I think May's really been one of our busiest months so far in terms of paid transparency legislation we've seen Hawaii, Illinois, British Columbia and Canada,

[00:07:43] and then the EU European Pay Transparency Directive all come into effect this month. So it's very much focused from employers and employees. So from the employer perspective, trying to make that decision, are they going with a minimalist compliance approach? Or am I going to

[00:08:00] fully embrace paid transparency? And I think, you know, all from an employee perspective, seeing all this legislation pass, growing expectation from them in terms of how important paid transparency

[00:08:11] is to them. Yeah, I would follow up a little bit off script for me. I was going to say it's so important to know, or it should be a great relief to people who are being hit with these expanding

[00:08:27] pay legislation. It should be a great relief to people who are being hit by paid transparency legislation that it is going to decrease intent to leave overall for most organizations. I think there's a lot of fear in becoming transparent about your pay processes, especially if you're

[00:08:45] of an older generation. And we do analyze generation outlook on this within our report. But what we are seeing is that there is a positive correlation with attrition when it comes to becoming more transparent about pay, which means that embracing this trend of paid transparency

[00:09:02] expanding is really in your best interest, whether the laws have hit you yet or not. Yeah, I think that's super exciting. I was just talking to a group of comp folks earlier this week

[00:09:12] and we were talking about how much work it's going to be. The investment companies are going to have to do. Amy, you mentioned the scale of paid transparency. We talk about a pay scale all

[00:09:20] the time, a scale of one to five. We often talk about you're completely at level one, you're sort of completely opaque. And then we used to suggest, we've been talking about this for years, right?

[00:09:31] Well, then you slowly move up and train people slowly. And the government has said, no, no, you start at five and just figure it out. And I think what's exciting though is we know it's going

[00:09:41] to be a lot of work. We know this is going to be painful, but what this is showing is there is a rainbow at the end, right? There is better outcomes for everyone and there's actually an ROI on this.

[00:09:49] So it's not just because you have to, it's actually, it looks like it's going to be good for everyone if we can pull this off, right? And get our companies doing this. Yeah, I believe so.

[00:09:58] Yeah. Well, what other correlated factors are you sort of seeing here as you kind of dug through the data? Yeah. So what I mentioned, well, a couple of different things. First, we did look at some

[00:10:10] sector analysis of the impact of pay transparency across blue collar workers, white collar workers, and healthcare workers. And then we also did some analysis by generation. So your generation Z, your millennials, your Gen X and your boomers to see whether or not there were differences between

[00:10:31] generational groups as well as different types of occupational groups. And the general results there are also really encouraging. So we are seeing overall that retention tends to increase or tend to leave decreases for all of those groups. There's a little higher for millennials,

[00:10:49] it's lower for boomers, which makes sense because the older you are, the less likely you are to change jobs anyway. And also pay transparency is scarier, I think, to older generation workers or at least less meaningful than it is to younger generation

[00:11:04] workers. In terms of white collar, blue collar and healthcare, we see again, a decrease in tend to leave across all three, but it is a little bit higher for white collared workers than for healthcare and blue collar, which again kind of is something we would expect because white

[00:11:18] collar jobs, salary jobs have more of that opaqueness, more of that black box secrecy, than blue collar jobs, which have more, in terms of probabilities and statistical numbers, percentages, more workers who already kind of know what the hourly rate is for various jobs

[00:11:35] within their sector. So we see that. The one surprising finding, a little surprising is that for generation Z, which is our youngest generation and generation that is most pushing for pay transparency, we see a 3% increase in the likelihood that those folks will seek a new job

[00:11:57] if you are transparent about pay. And this is a very interesting finding. I think it correlates with why gen Z is so persistent about pay transparency. They feel that they are not

[00:12:11] paid fairly and as younger workers, they are more likely to be paid less. And that is why pay transparency, although very positive overall, it does need to be combined with pay strategy and

[00:12:23] pay communications. You need to be able to explain to your workers why they are being paid, what they're paid, how their pay is determined and how they can grow in their pay by remaining with the

[00:12:34] organization. If you don't do that, they're going to go on social media and read a bunch of threads that the only way they can make higher pay is to job hop. And they're going to see those pay

[00:12:45] ranges advertised in job boards. And they're going to be continually looking for a new job because they don't understand how to grow within their current role at your organization if you don't tell them. So that's kind of the big overall takeaway of the various different sectors that we

[00:13:02] looked at. I'm on a pause there because I've talked a lot and see if something else... No, no, that's great. There's so much unpack in there. But yeah, one of the observations I made

[00:13:11] talking to some comp folks this week too was they pointed out, yeah, we as a company can decide not to post our jobs on boards or with ranges because maybe it doesn't apply to our state or

[00:13:24] we're only posting in places which don't have those laws. But our people can still look at the companies who are posting ranges and still see what they're offering. So you still have the problem, right? You can't really hide from this. Ruth, anything in there that surprises you

[00:13:38] or any of those insights kind of shock you? No, I don't think so. I think just in terms of the... It's interesting the generational observations in the report, Amy, and they pretty much came out as we would have expected. And I mean, at that interesting point that you

[00:13:51] just made there, Russ, about companies thinking about just only posting ranges where they have to most of the data we're seeing coming in both in the US and interestingly, I did a webinar in Europe earlier today. It showed that employers are posting everywhere irrespective of where they're

[00:14:11] required. And even in the Europe webinar today where we don't have any mandatory pay transparency legislation yet. So the EU paid transparency directive is going to change that landscape. 46% of the participants on my webinar this morning were talking about saying that they

[00:14:29] were already posting ranges. So, you know, this is a best practice trend that employers are getting behind and, you know, wanting to share that. So they're maybe recognizing some of the outcomes

[00:14:40] that you found in the report, Amy. But tell us about some of the other factors, the four other factors that you looked at. How did they correlate and what happened once you included them in the

[00:14:51] statistical analysis? Yeah, yeah. As I mentioned, so we looked at pay transparency and isolation, but we also did a multivariate regression analysis with other factors which include bright future company culture, fair pay manager relationship in addition to pay transparency. And our objective

[00:15:06] there was to see where does pay transparency fall in this list when it comes to impact on intent to leave compared to these other things that we think, you know, we hypothesize are going to have

[00:15:18] a bigger impact. And the results to me are very in line with what I expected with one exception. I expected manager relationship to be more of an impact than it was. But what we did

[00:15:30] find was that bright future, so your overall thoughts of how is this company doing within the world as an organization which encompass a lot of things, including turnover and how employees are treated if you're seeing a lot of people leaving the company that can result in some

[00:15:48] lack of feeling of stability in the job. But that one had the biggest impact on intent to leave at 39%. Fair pay was second at 27%, which is in line with what I expected and does show the importance

[00:16:02] of combining pay transparency with compensation strategy and pay communications to ensure that employees know that pay is fair. Company culture and manager relationship were close together. Company culture edges it out at 22% and manager relationship at 21%. That does not mean that

[00:16:19] it's not important. But what we find in our analysis is that if you have a good manager, like a good enough manager, that's not, you're not going to feel as compelled to leave your job as

[00:16:31] a really toxic culture or a really bad relationship with your manager. But relationships can be a little funny, like they're volatile, right? You can have a good day and then have a bad day and

[00:16:41] then have a really good strong spell and then have a bad time. So relationships, people can sometimes feel like they have more control over that. They can be coached, they think they can manage up or

[00:16:52] they can coach their manager, or they might think, you know, I can leave this job but it's not guaranteed to be any better at the next job that I get. Whereas some of these other factors like

[00:17:01] a full-on toxic culture across the total organization or your pay being unfair, which you may feel like you do not have the ability to change or the overall future of the company, those are all bigger impacts overall on people seeking a new job. Pay transparency's impact falls to 1%

[00:17:20] against these other factors. And that doesn't surprise me because again, pay transparency is not the reason that someone tends to seek a new job. It has a positive impact on attrition or a

[00:17:31] negative impact on intent to leave, but it is not the compelling reason that people go. When pay ranges are published to job ads, that can be disconcerting to your current employees. Again, if they don't understand why they are making what they're making now. But that goes back to

[00:17:49] fair pay perceptions. Those two are intrinsically linked. And that is where fair pay perception was the second highest of the reasons that people will choose to seek a new job if they feel their

[00:17:59] pay is not fair. And that is why you need to consider that kind of whole employee experience and the communications part particularly. Yeah, I think- Yeah. Oh, sorry, Russ. No, go ahead. Well, yeah, I just wanted to say like to me like when you said fair pay initially,

[00:18:15] I just assumed transparency was embedded in that at some layer. It should be. Because well, because you can't know if you're paid fairly, right? We've had studies in the past that show people who are paid above market, but don't have transparency actually believe

[00:18:27] they're below market, right? So you can't really know you're paid. Because this is something I've talked to CFOs about. Like if you're a great CFO and you got a great head of HR and you're like

[00:18:36] sitting there going, hey, transparency doesn't affect me. I'm paying everybody at the 80th percentile. Yeah, but if you don't show them that, they're going to believe they're paid below market. That's exactly right, Russ.

[00:18:46] You're spending more money than you either should be because people don't know it or not all that hard work you've done to get the budget for that isn't really as impactful as you might expect.

[00:18:55] So Ruth, what are your thoughts on this? Is anything in there surprising to you? Yeah, I mean, the bright future in terms of thinking big picture of my company coming out on top, that makes sense for me. I mean, it's a fundamental stumbling block for most

[00:19:09] of us, I think, if you think the company that you're working for doesn't have a bright future. And you can look at that from different perspectives. You talked about culture. So sometimes an individual is looking at whether their personal and company values align.

[00:19:27] And we see a lot of particularly younger generational workers putting a lot of emphasis on that. Maybe also you're concerned about, not surprisingly in the current sort of economic position we find ourselves in is the viability or retention

[00:19:44] and sort of revenue targets. Is my company going to survive in the current market? And then generally, you might feel frustrated about lack of vision, depending on where you are in the organization. Is the organization making the right decisions? So that's quite a

[00:19:59] big deciding factor. And then seeing fair pay second, again, you both said we've seen studies that have reiterated that over time. We know that fair pay has a key impact on engagement and on retention. And pay transparency is the way to demonstrate you are paying fairly.

[00:20:23] Yeah, for sure. So what about company culture? I see all these headlines running around now that pay transparency is out there. Like pay transparency blows up culture. And what are you seeing when you guys got into the data here around culture and the manager relationship?

[00:20:41] So I mean, I think that's pretty interpretive. I spend a lot of time on social media forums reading about the various trends that are kind of taking hold recently around like the work function, especially during COVID. I think there was kind of a great, great, great resignation,

[00:20:59] great reevaluation, great awakening, where people were really taking their mental health into a new calculation of overall wellness and well-being. And it's no longer just about pay. And I think that's a good shift. People are saying, you know, it matters to me how I feel

[00:21:18] at the job that I'm in. And creating a positive culture is not easy. But there are estimates that something like, actually, I shouldn't say. I've read other resources that toxic cultures are pretty ubiquitous within corporate America at least, and I'm sure internationally as well,

[00:21:39] where there are many of employees who feel that they are being oppressed within their jobs, that they can't deliver the value that they know they can deliver because of various political machinations that are happening within their workplace where they don't feel appreciated

[00:21:56] by their direct managers and where there's a lot of just negative, non-productive activity that can make people want to look around for a better organization with a better culture. The problem, of course, is that it's hard to tell what a corporate organization's culture

[00:22:14] looks like from the outside. So we have companies like Glassdoor and others that are trying to do this. But I do think company culture is an important aspect of talent management, an important aspect of business operations. And it starts with your values and it expands in how you

[00:22:30] reward and promote people. So it really is part of your polar rewards and recognition program because who gets promoted and why has a big impact on your culture. And I think that that is something that is overlooked in a lot of organizations and probably deserves more attention.

[00:22:46] It's interesting that culture aspect playing out in some of the debate we're seeing about remote work and should I bring my employees back to work. You've got some organizations, you have a very

[00:22:58] traditional, you've got to be in the office, you've got to be working long hours and we want you back in the office so we know we can see you doing that. And we see just employees not wanting to do

[00:23:09] that. We've seen it borne out in our conversation best practice report. But that's just, okay, well, I'm going to choose which type of organization I work for and that's going to be what aligns culturally best for me. So we're really seeing some of that played out in that

[00:23:24] remote work debate, I think. Yeah. And we're going to do a remote work report in September. So that is a question that I left out of this one intentionally because we're going to do a

[00:23:33] full focus on it later in the summer. So I'm glad you brought that up. Ooh, that's exciting. Well, I can't wait for that one too. But thinking about the culture question, it's interesting because one of the things I think about is if you claim to have a

[00:23:49] transparent culture, but then you look at your own salary and you see these salaries online that are different than what you're paid and your boss or your comp team or your HR department can't give

[00:23:58] you a clear answer as to why you're different. It sort of says, well, hey, if we're really a culture of caring and a culture of transparency in other areas, we should be there too. And so

[00:24:07] I think some of this stuff is starting to sort of challenge some of that. And we have to align our compensation strategy to our culture, right? And if we claim to be transparent, we need to be

[00:24:15] transparent in all aspects of the business, right? Yeah. Sorry. We saw that in the early case studies of pay transparency where Buffer was always the tech startup in the US was the kind of poster

[00:24:28] child for pay transparency, posting their pay, how they set pay, the equation for that online and everybody's pay was available online. But the real reason they did that was not because they were trying to like lead the market in compensation best practice. It was because transparency was

[00:24:46] their fundamental corporate value. And they felt that if that was the case, they needed to do in everything they did, it needs to be based on transparency. And that was where, they really were one of the early proponents of pay transparency, but it was all value led.

[00:25:03] Right. Yeah. And Russ, I think you really hit the nail on the head when you said, you know, your current employees, if they go and look at published ranges for new hires, and that doesn't align with what they're being paid, that is a huge question mark, right? And

[00:25:19] a lot of employees don't feel like they're going to feel undervalued. And it's a difficult conversation to bring up to your manager, really, your manager should be proactively bringing that up with you. And in an ideal world, we know that doesn't happen as often as it should, but

[00:25:34] manager training around pay and explaining what the factors are that, you know, causes someone to slide along that pay range to get from, you know, the lower end to the middle and then the middle

[00:25:46] to the upper end and how promotions happen. All of that is part of culture, as well as part of comp practices. And for employees in particular, like the reason they're working for you is in

[00:25:58] large part because they are compensated to do so. There are other things that lead people to work for organizations, you know, value of the mission, liking their coworkers, you know, the

[00:26:08] type of industry you're in, those can be factors. But at the end of the day, it really is a contract between the individual and the employer, and they really need to understand the rules

[00:26:17] of that contract. That's all they want to know. And it's been secret for so long that this is a, you know, scary world for a lot of employers, but I think it's one that is unavoidable. And so if you're not currently thinking seriously about pay transparency,

[00:26:33] I really think it's something that all organizations should be taking as the future trend of where work is headed. I heard an interesting analogy where it was around like you wouldn't go and try and buy a house if you didn't know the price of the house.

[00:26:49] Right. And so, you know, or why the price is, you know, like you wouldn't go into your research or understand that and pay transparency, you know, not understanding what your pay is or how your pay

[00:27:00] is relative to others who are working with you is a bit like that. And I don't know how we thought it was acceptable for so long. You know, I mean, I've been working in compensation for 30 years

[00:27:11] and, you know, worked in a little black box hidden away in the back of an office building. So, because we were doing all this secret stuff and I think the world has changed, hasn't it? And we've

[00:27:23] talked about so much else. Yeah. One of the data points that I know we share a lot in some of our presentations is when is the first time your employee in your organization sees their pay rate?

[00:27:36] Yeah. And you sort of had, you know, 27% see it on the job posting and then, you know, a certain percentage sees it when they're hired and then maybe you don't see it to your first

[00:27:45] review. But the funny thing is like, I look back at my career, you know, and I started in the 90s. I don't think I knew what a pay range was until I got into the compensation space, right? I mean,

[00:27:56] I know. Software engineering, development, product management, I'd never heard of a pay range, right? Like, so, to your point, Ruth, like people didn't talk about pay ranges even know what they really were. It was just, you got a salary and if you wanted your salary to be higher,

[00:28:07] you talked to your boss. Yeah. Right, exactly. You just begged your boss for a raise. That's all you did. That was all you knew about, right? That was how it worked. Yeah. The chart you're

[00:28:15] referencing, Russ, is part of our compensation best practices report. So, listeners, if you have not seen that, that chart that Russ is referencing is in that report and the percentage of organizations that are sharing pay ranges in the job posting, whether because they are legally

[00:28:30] required to or not, has doubled in the last year. And I think that that is going to continue to increase. I want to say the number is 45% right now. I would be unsurprised if that jumps to like

[00:28:41] 60% within a couple of years and then continues to be high after that. And there's a very compelling reason, not just because it decreases intent to leave and not just because it's legally required, but you really avoiding it sets you up for a poor candidate experience. Because the more

[00:28:59] organizations that are publishing pay ranges, if you do not, you're less appealing than the organizations that are because applying for a job is a lot of work. And your job candidates are

[00:29:11] going to have choices when it comes to what jobs they apply to. And they're much more likely to apply to the job where they know what the general range is for that work than a job that is not

[00:29:22] published at all. You also have to think about the various job boards and how their technology plays into this. I was having an interesting conversation with Lulu the other day about how

[00:29:34] some job boards will add a pay range for your job post. They will guess what that pay range is based on other data that they have on similar job titles and similar locations. And if that is wrong,

[00:29:48] and your candidate applies for that job expecting that range, and then you get all the way to the end of the process and you make an offer and it's 20% below what they think they're going to be

[00:29:59] offered, then you have a real poor problem. And I've been seeing that experience happen to people in social media boards. So it's just, it's a really hard thing to say, I'm just not going to do

[00:30:11] it. I think you need to consider what the ramifications of that are. Yeah. I think one of the number one pet peeves of a comp analyst is someone else in the organization benchmarking a job. And so letting job boards do it seems like the absolute worst possible scenario.

[00:30:27] That's happening. So I know, so you got to get your range on their people or someone else will do it for you. And that's not good for anybody. So obviously this is creating unique challenges

[00:30:37] for us in the compensation space, both comp pros, as well as comp software creators like us and software vendors. And we think one of the reasons we do all this research is both to inform

[00:30:49] the market and our clients, but also to inform ourselves to make sure we're building solutions that really help. Ruth, what are our thoughts right now in this space? I know we've got a lot

[00:30:56] going on. We're thinking a lot about how we can help people in comp strategy, but also now employee communications. What are some of the things we're thinking about lately? Well, we've just launched a pay transparency solution, which really brings together our data technology and services,

[00:31:12] and is aimed at really helping you to bring pay transparency to life in your organization. So it's about using the great market data that we have to ensure ranges are competitive, to attract candidates when you're including them in job postings, to building pay structures so that

[00:31:29] pay makes sense across the organization. So if I'm an employee and I see a job posted on a job board, it may not be my job, but it's a job that I think looks pretty similar to my job and requires similar

[00:31:41] skills, knowledge, and experience. And you're going to question why potentially my pay isn't the same as that. So that's why looking across organizations is increasingly becoming important. So building pay structures. And then through to that, important employee communications. So we have our total

[00:31:58] reward statements here at PayScale, and we're doing a lot of work in our product development following the Agora acquisition last November in terms of how we will build that proposition out. And then through the comp services as part of this pay transparency solution,

[00:32:12] we're going to be helping to train managers for those all-important conversations because they're the guys, they're going to, the guys and girls are going to be at the front line in terms of answering those employee questions. And we also include pay equity, our pay equity solution in

[00:32:25] that package, because really ensuring ongoing equity is critical. Trust in pay practices, we know that's really important. And so, you know, proving to your employees that you are constantly monitoring pay equity is really important. So a lot there, I talked a lot there,

[00:32:41] a lot to unpack. We talk about the pay transparency solution, I think in the retention report, Amy, so people, if they want to find out more details, go back to that report. You can find

[00:32:50] out about our solution there. Awesome. Well, thank you, Ruth. So yeah, step one here, folks, if you're interested in this, you want to learn more about all the great data and insights that

[00:33:02] Amy assembled here, jump in and check out that report. It's free. A couple of different ways you can get it. You can check out the links directly in the show notes here for this episode,

[00:33:10] or head over to payscale.com. It's very easy to find on our website as well. You can check out that report, learn more and let us know what you think of the report. You can email us at

[00:33:18] coffee at payscale.com or reach out to us on Twitter. Amy, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate hearing from you. Thank you, Russ. Coffee and Coffee is a PayScale production dedicated to the compensation community.

[00:33:43] We welcome your feedback. Send email to coffee at payscale.com, tweet us at PayScale or share your thoughts in our PayScale Connect community. Until next time, keep your coffee hot and your data fresh.