95 WorldatWork Review

[00:00:00] Welcome to Comp and Coffee. I'm Ruth Thomas, Chief Evangelist here at Payscale and the current custodian of the podcast, where we aim to bring you insightful discussions and expert insights to keep you informed and empowered in the ever evolving landscape of reward and

[00:00:28] compensation. So whether you're a seasoned compensation professional or new to the topic, our podcast is your go-to resource for staying ahead of the curve. So grab your favorite beverage, coffee or not, tune in and let's get started.

[00:00:44] So as we're recording this episode, we are from World at Work Total Rewards 24, which took place in Cincinnati, Ohio on the 20th to the 22nd of May. And this year's event, we saw record attendance levels, there were about 2000 HR and Comp pros on site there

[00:01:03] to learn about all the key developments and new trends in rewards. So in this episode today, we're going to look back at what went down, what were the most talked about topics and key takeaways from the sessions that we attended. So I've got Liz at Sheffield with

[00:01:18] me. Hello, Liz. Hello, Ruth. Good to see you. So Liz is going to help me curate our content for the episode today. She is our fabulous content marketing manager and my partner in crime on the podcast. So she's the one always

[00:01:33] beavering away behind the scenes to help bring this podcast to life. So I'm really pleased that you can join me today. And we also recorded live with the powers of technology at World

[00:01:46] at Work. So we're going to be hearing from some of the customers, partners and pay scalers who joined us there in today's episode. So Liz, was this your first World at Work? I can't quite remember. Was it your first World at Work?

[00:02:01] It was. I've been to other HR conferences, but this was the first World at Work. And what was your impression? What were your sort of overall takeaways? I loved it. You know, this is, I've been back for a few days and I'm kind of missing

[00:02:14] it because there's just such a great sense of community and a little bit of shameless self-promotion. Our pay scale stand or booth was amazing. It was so fun. We had a coffee

[00:02:26] stand and that just really served to bring so many people there. So I got to meet a lot of great folks from the community and also really loved seeing all the sessions, in particular

[00:02:38] the three sessions, full sessions that we were part of one about AI, one about manager training and then one which you were involved with was about how to kind of adapt as compensation for professional and as well as a breakfast round table about pay transparency. I can

[00:02:55] never get enough of pay transparency. All in all, it was a great, a great time. So I think like me, you attended a few sessions. That's why the timetable is also crazy because

[00:03:07] you're running from one room to the next to try and grab all the great content that's available there. But what was your favorite or what was the one that left you with the biggest impression?

[00:03:19] So like you said, it is a little bit crazy running from session to session and lots of overlapping. But one in particular that I really thought was creative and engaging as well as informative was a debate about whether or not merit increases are the way to go.

[00:03:36] So I just thought that was interesting to have a debate with two really seasoned professionals and oddly enough in the, it was back and forth lively discussion and the person that was pro merit increases won, quote unquote, in the end because she was able to sway more

[00:03:55] people to her side about the value of merit increases. I thought, you know, just in terms of what it made me think about, you know, that there are pros to merit increases, right? It gives people some clarity about pay and performance.

[00:04:12] Those they can be sort of the motivational tool. But some of the cons, which were also really valid, that merit increases might serve to demotivate people because if I'm a high performer and I know I'm going to kind of get the

[00:04:26] same standard merit increase, maybe I'm not going to perform as well as well as just kind of being subject to bias. If you get your manager on the wrong day, are they going to give you a lower increase or not? Yeah, it sounded like a great session.

[00:04:40] I think I was in a similar session where we were talking about, you know, you've got 4% salary budget. What can you use it for? And part of that was debate about should we still be doing merit or performance, you know, through that 4% budget? It's definitely an interesting debate.

[00:04:57] I think my biggest struggle, I'm not a fan. I will declare it here. I am not a fan of including performance in the annual salary increase. I think my biggest struggle is that based, the problem with performance-related pay is

[00:05:14] it's based on the imperfect performance management systems that we have in place today. And until we resolve that, I think that debate will roll on. But, you know, I think I'm an anomaly because our CBPR report this year showed that 76% of

[00:05:29] organizations award for merit slash performance in their base pay. So that's the primary factor that was the one that came out on top after, you know, behind that, sorry, was market adjustment, cost of living or inflation, internal pay equity or pay compression adjustments.

[00:05:45] So it's still the primary driver that people report as, you know, how they adjust merit pay. So that was just one debate of the many that were covered during the two and a half days that we were there.

[00:05:59] If you're interested in the key headline takeaways, I've done a summary that is up live on our payscale.com events page. So there's just a one-page summary where I've kind of done five key takeaways and what I learned.

[00:06:12] One probably hot and not a surprise topic this year was of course AI or artificial intelligence. So with the rapid advancements in gen AI during 2023, and what we learned there was, you know, the potential to drive up to 30% increased productivity across the HR value chain.

[00:06:34] There was a lot of talk about AI and how to use it and what we should be doing as comp professionals. So we talked to a few folks there about that. Let's firstly hear from Vicky Piekman, our director of data products on what she learned.

[00:06:50] Hello, and I'm here with Vicky Piekman, our director of data products at PayScale. Vicky, I'm keen to learn what your key takeaways have been from the show and particularly any insights that you've gained around artificial intelligence, which we've all been talking about here. Yeah, thanks for having me.

[00:07:08] Yeah, it was so great to be at World at Work again and to talk with customers and prospects and obviously colleagues as well. There's always such a buzz there. The main two topic areas for sessions that I went to were pay equity and transparency and of course AI.

[00:07:25] It was interesting to note that pay equity isn't going anywhere and it's still such a hot topic. But of course, AI is hugely important to us here in the data world. It was great to see my colleague James on a panel talking about.

[00:07:38] They talked about the fact that we have been using this kind of technology for years, but that we're currently in a period of exponential growth. It's going to transform the way we work, both here in terms of how we provide data and software

[00:07:51] to our customers, but also for comp professionals in their day-to-day lives. The great thing about AI is that it can analyze large amounts of data quickly and improve decision making accuracy, something that is crucial in the comp world. So exciting times to come. Great.

[00:08:07] Thank you very much, Vicky. And we also spoke with Garrett Pears, who's manager of compensation at Bon Secours Mercy Health and he had some interesting takeaways on AI as well. Okay. I'm here with Garrett Pears, who is manager of compensation with, do you want to tell

[00:08:24] your company name, Garrett? Yeah. Bon Secours Mercy Health. What do they do? We're a healthcare system, Ohio, Kentucky, and then on the East Coast as well. So we've been talking about some of the key themes from the conference. AI was the one that's been appealing to you.

[00:08:38] What have you learned about AI while you've been here? I, everybody is very interested and nobody really seems to know what to do with it quite yet. That's kind of my takeaway. But there are some good practical steps I've learned about with what AI can do currently.

[00:08:52] Like for instance, CoPilot for Microsoft can integrate with all your Microsoft products. So I constantly in Excel, PowerPoint, all those fun stuff and CoPilot can get you 80% of the way there and hopefully save time there. So that's the practical stuff is what I'm really looking for.

[00:09:10] I think next year we'll have even more and people will have more answers on AI. So are you using AI that you're aware of at the moment in any of the kind of solutions that you're using? Currently, no. It's been a buzzword.

[00:09:22] Our CHRO has heard of it and he's like, how can we integrate it? And so that's why I'm interested in that. Trying to figure out ways that we can use it currently to make our processes more efficient. Great. Have you looked at the PayScale AI new features?

[00:09:35] I've talked to them about it, especially in the job description arena. Everybody hates job description. So how can we make that process easier and what opportunities we can use with their JDM? Yeah.

[00:09:47] And that's where the main use case we're seeing in compensation at the moment is AI for job description management. Because nobody likes doing it. No one likes doing job descriptions. Exactly. Great. Well, thank you very much, Garrett. Yeah, no problem.

[00:09:58] And then we also spoke to Marilyn Ware, who was compensation manager at MI Homes Inc. She had some key learnings and things that she was going to take back to work with her relative to AI. So let's hear what she said.

[00:10:10] Hi, and I'm live with Marilyn Ware from MI Homes. We've just been chatting about PayScale's peer dataset. But I hear you've been learning about AI whilst you've been here, Marilyn. Yes, I have. I've taken the opportunity to attend quite a few of the AI sessions.

[00:10:25] Because AI can kind of be a little scary. And also kind of where does AI play a role in compensation? And it's a big thing. It's just now changing. Everyone's a little bit out there.

[00:10:37] So just kind of talking and talking to people, making some connections on how other people are doing things or how they're looking at it. And any actions you'll go home with relative to AI and thinking about how you use that at MI Homes?

[00:10:50] I think I'll do some more research. Some of the sessions that, you know, looking at the slides and using the contact information for some of the folks. The one I was just in regarding pay equity, he'd written a white paper.

[00:11:02] So I'm probably going to go and read that. And any other exciting things you've learned while you've been here? No, no, no, no. Just trying to take it all in. The pay equity and AI are the topics right now. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much, Mally.

[00:11:17] So it was great to hear so many people talking about AI. I do kind of feel like I've been talking about digital transformation for quite some time. And despite significant growth in the HR tech market and more and more people deploying

[00:11:29] HR technology, we've not really seen any significant changes in the way we manage compensation. And that's for me is evidence really by the dominance of Excel still as the primary tool most people use to manage compensation.

[00:11:43] And I do really believe, I think that AI will be the differentiator to drive comp tech adoption. So it was exciting to hear, you know, how that is now coming to us, how we need to adapt.

[00:11:57] And with so many new data sources and the need to calibrate people data across the many systems that we have, I think it's going to be a critical tool for us in the future. So a lot of chat about AI, Liz. But another key theme was pay transparency.

[00:12:14] So what were the key things you learned about pay transparency that you maybe didn't know before? Yeah, as I said earlier, I can never get enough pay transparency, so I was very happy to see that once again at the Hot Topic.

[00:12:28] And I really think that people, attendees were wanting to know, you know, how are they going to need to change their comp practice? What do they need to do, especially in light of all the evolving global legislation and in turn, employee expectations that are coming from that?

[00:12:47] One thing really stood out is that ensuring rewards management and communication are robust enough to kind of enable this pay transparency. So we had a session about manager training, about compensation, which was a standing room only group. It was well, you were there, you witnessed it.

[00:13:10] But I thought that said a lot because it was on the last day of the conference and yet everybody was there wanting to get insights. And it really I think it all boils down to that education piece with pay transparency

[00:13:22] that, you know, from employees to managers to leaders, everybody needs to understand and be educated on this topic to enable these open conversations. The conversations are going to come. So let's make sure that everybody's prepared and confident and comfortable combining those words to have those open conversations.

[00:13:41] You know, it's many of us, many folks in attendance, their state or region doesn't have a law, but they foresee that it will be coming. So I think, you know, that this is not a fad and it was great to see that people are really wanting to learn.

[00:13:59] And then the key thing that I did take away too is it's not one and done. You're going to need to iterate the pay transparency. So yeah, very excited to see that talk. Great job, Liz, on bringing that session together.

[00:14:13] That was chaired by Lexi Clark, our chief people officer. And as you say, it was standing room only, which on the final day is a good sign. So we also hosted, I think you mentioned this, a breakfast on day two of the conference.

[00:14:27] So we were busy while we were there. Lulu Sightley and I met with practitioners for an active discussion on how they're adapting to legislation. And Lulu and I chatted after the session on what we had found out from those practitioners and the information that was shared.

[00:14:42] So let's hear that now. Hi, we're recording Compton Coffee Live at World at Work in Senate. And we are on day two, Tuesday. And Lulu and I have just finished a wonderful breakfast session with about 20 practitioners all talking about pay transparency.

[00:14:56] Tell us what happened on your table, Lulu. We had a great group. About half of our group were already well on their pay transparency journey. The other half were just getting started building job ranges, job architecture.

[00:15:08] So it was a really great conversation from those who had already gone through the process to give advice to those who are just starting the process. I shared what Payscale has done in the past few years of how we've gotten our house in order.

[00:15:19] I think that made a lot of people feel better about the situation that they're in. But it was really interesting to see the big conversation we had was actually about remote work versus location-based work.

[00:15:31] Do we claw back salaries if somebody gets hired in San Francisco and then moves to Topeka, Kansas, as an example? There was a big conversation about that. It was really interesting to hear.

[00:15:41] We had a larger company say that they do their ranges based on requirement to go into office and that all remote work is a much lower premium than those who have to go into the office. So what about your group? What did y'all talk about?

[00:15:53] We talked a bit about geo. There was questions about posting ranges when you've got multiple locations, so we covered that. Really, it was more about the trepidation about how to launch the pay transparency journey

[00:16:05] and many of them feeling the expectation that they had to have everything right when they started. I was telling them how our journey has been like a two, three-year journey. Many of the customers that we talk to and we work with, this is not something that happens

[00:16:19] overnight and what I was encouraging them to do was to say, what you want to do is be transparent at the start with your employees about what your journey is going to look like. It will happen and it will come, but it probably won't happen overnight.

[00:16:34] Another piece we talked about too was everybody was pretty comfortable about being transparent about pay with candidates, but they were also very worried about what that would do to their internal population. So I encouraged them on their comp statements to let your current incumbents and employees

[00:16:49] see behind the veil. Maybe they won't know, Ruth may not know what I make, I may not know what Ruth makes, but at pay scale, I know what a senior corporate attorney's pay scale looks like, pay range looks like.

[00:16:59] And so some of those practitioners hadn't thought about that and so that was something they're going to take back to their leadership, which is like, well, that could be really interesting because that could prevent questions.

[00:17:08] But another question came out of that, which was if you're hiring on location based jobs or geo based jobs, how do we put that on a comp statement? So I said, well, on your comp statement, just say you were hired at region B because

[00:17:22] that's because you live in Dallas or Houston and the region B range for this role is X. Put that on your comp statement if you're comfortable sharing that information. So that was a good, helpful tip that I think they all took away. Great. Thank you.

[00:17:34] Well, it was a great breakfast session. So I'm glad we were able to spend that time with the practitioners. Thanks, Lulu. Thanks, Ruth. So as you say, it was clear from these discussions, there's still much more work to be done to

[00:17:44] fully, first of all, be compliant with legislation, meet employee expectations and also this conversation around demonstrating the ROI of pay transparency to fully engage business leaders. I think that's kind of the third topic that emerged.

[00:17:59] And our chief people officer, Lexi, who led that session, she spoke to me about her key takeaways from the conference and a little bit about pay transparency too. So let's hear what she was hearing. Hi, I'm here with Lexi Karr, chief people officer from PayScale.

[00:18:13] Are you having a good show, Lexi? I'm having a great show, Ruth, and I am very much enjoying my coffee in the PayScale booth. Oh, yes, me too. And so sessions, have you been to any good sessions? What have been your takeaways so far?

[00:18:25] Yes, lots of good sessions, lots of good conversation. I think a couple of the biggest takeaways, one, it's clear that transparency is table steak. We talk about this a lot, but through and through, transparency shows up in communication and every conversation we're having, not just pay transparency legislation,

[00:18:42] but transparency around compensation and total rewards practices. I think that has been especially interesting as we've talked about compensation and total rewards role, switching from more behind, less behind the scenes and more in front of employees and leaders.

[00:18:57] And some of the interesting conversations I think that have happened this morning already, we're talking about listing mechanisms are more than a survey. So not just surveying people, but actually getting out there, having conversation,

[00:19:09] living in the employee experience to understand how you can create a total rewards and compensation strategy that is not just based off of survey data, that's based off of actually like understanding your pain point for your employees and really targeting and helping them to improve their overall happiness.

[00:19:25] So a much broader spectrum of transparency then. Yes. Thank you very much, Lexi. Enjoy the rest of the show. So all those conversations I think just show how implementing pay transparency is a very broad topic, much more than just posting ranges on job postings or complying with legislation.

[00:19:42] I think the topic of pay transparency and us learning about that is going to go on and on. So moving on, some of the other sessions I was keen to attend were the future forward sessions during the conference with business models in flux, digital

[00:19:58] transformation going on, the evolving landscape of work. We really do need to start thinking about modernising our compensation strategies to meet the needs of the dynamic workforces that we have today. And I heard things that I think we will be doing more in the future.

[00:20:15] So that will be things like integrating flexible and performance based pay models, aligning compensation with skills and contributions rather than job titles. So skills wasn't probably as heavy a topic as it has been in prior years, but it was still there. People are still working on that.

[00:20:32] Personalised reward is another topic I feel like I've been talking about forever. But you know, with multiple generations in the workforce and the desire to treat our employees as consumers, I think we will see that personalisation of reward evolving.

[00:20:48] And I think technology will help us to do that. And also, I was interested to hear a lot of the thoughts around data analytics and visualisation and how we should embed that into our work to help inform compensation decisions and guide managers in terms of those compensation decisions.

[00:21:09] So the term compensation 2.0 was being used a lot, and that was quite a zeitgeist moment for me. I think we really are at a turning point in rewards or compensation management, and there's no going back. And we need to start adapting quickly if we're going to be

[00:21:27] prepared for future challenges. So in that vein, I caught up with Robin Dean, who is one of our product managers here at PayScale, and he also had some thoughts about how we adapt to the future, particularly using AI. So let's hear what he had to say.

[00:21:44] Hello, and I'm here with Robin Dean, one of our product managers from PayScale who came to World at Work mainly to learn about all the new challenges in compensation and how we can continue to adapt our products here at PayScale. So Robin, welcome.

[00:21:59] Did you have a fun time in Cincinnati? The weather permitting, it was a good time. So what were your key takeaways? What inspired you whilst you were there as you think about digital transformation in compensation management?

[00:22:18] There were two key things that I took away kind of under the umbrella specifically of AI. One of them was just kind of the practicality that we're now finally talking about

[00:22:32] AI. I think it was so new, it was so exciting, it felt earth shattering a year ago, even less than that. And now there was a lot more kind of practical conversation about applications of

[00:22:42] it, being able to actually know what it can and should be used for and what it can and should not be used for. It's certainly not going to take everybody's job, but people that are able to use it for

[00:22:55] their job are going to be better at their jobs in the long run. And so one of the sessions talked about just start playing with with chat GPT today in your own personal life, even if it's not for your job.

[00:23:07] Help plan your kid's birthday party, whatever that looks like, just so that you're more comfortable and kind of understand what you can and should be using it for. I think the other is along with that, the way to truly apply AI to compensation is

[00:23:27] leveraging the data that you already have. You already have a ton of really important, useful data, how you've matched to third party surveys before, how you've written previous job descriptions. Those should be what's feeding into leveraging AI to do those tasks again and make them

[00:23:48] more efficient for you. And so it's not just using the vast resources of the Internet, it's using your own really valuable golden data to be able to do your job more efficiently. Great, thank you.

[00:24:04] And so now coming back to work, anything you're going to take that you learnt there into your everyday job? I mean, beyond how I'm going to use AI in my job, but I think then incorporating that into future enhancements in the product.

[00:24:22] I think there's certainly been a lot of appetite when we released AI job summaries in Job Description Manager earlier this year. There was a lot of excitement and intrigue in that. And as we continue to expand on that, being able to take back that second point that I

[00:24:41] just mentioned about leveraging an organization's own internal data to make that better. You've gone through some work to build out hundreds, if not thousands of job descriptions that include skills and responsibilities and all these really important details that matter a lot to you and your organization.

[00:25:00] How do we use that and the power and efficiency of AI to then write your next job description along with you? And so I think that's the kind of really tangible kind of next piece that I'm looking forward to taking back into future development.

[00:25:17] Great, thank you very much, Robin. OK, Liz, over to you now, I think. Yeah, I think I love this, Ruth. It was so great to talk to people at the conference and I'm glad that we're sharing these snippets.

[00:25:33] One thing that I took away was really the, as you just said, Compensation 2.0 was a zeitgeist moment and the need for people to really just try things out during a session about AI. Jason Adder, that's something sort of like it's a sandbox and maybe don't

[00:25:54] mess around with AI in your tools until you know what you're doing, but just try it out, see what's happening. And, you know, that was one of the a reminder of another thing that I just feel like the

[00:26:06] relevant sessions really were highlighting some of these new skills that people need to adopt. And those can be kind of tough, right? Like financial acumen, regulatory knowledge. These are really coming into the forefront and data science, some digital literacy that

[00:26:23] maybe we haven't had the necessity for as much in the past, as well as how are we going to build the ROI that we're seeing in our comp investments? So just really an urgency, I guess, for HR professionals, comp professionals to be preparing for this new era.

[00:26:44] Yeah, and I think that's one part of World at Work Total Rewards that people sometimes overlook is, you know, you're there for your own professional development too. So you talked about community. It is an amazing community that we love to support.

[00:26:58] That's why we sponsor the after party here at Bayscale as a way of saying thank you to that community. But it is really a chance. You know, you're never going to be in a room with nearly 2000 people who do the same

[00:27:09] thing as you. That's probably the one time in the year that you are. So, you know, learning from them and learning how to develop yourself to kind of all the trends that you're hearing is really important. I like that you mentioned the ROI for comp investments.

[00:27:25] I spoke to our CEO, Chris Hayes. He came along this year. It was his first World at Work too. And this was something that he picked up on when I spoke to him about how he felt about the conference. So let's hear that now.

[00:27:37] Hi, we're recording live at World at Work and I'm with Chris Hayes, CEO of Bayscale. Now this is your first World at Work. How are you finding it? It's great so far. It's been an amazing experience.

[00:27:46] And what have you learned in terms of compensation in the business and the people that come to the conference? You know, the thing that, and I had an idea of this before I came, but the thing that

[00:27:54] struck me, it actually struck me when I was in your session yesterday, is this show is attended by a lot of really smart people, deep comp understanding, people who are really passionate about the impact that comp can and should have.

[00:28:07] What strikes me is that there's a gap between that cohort of people and I'll call it like an executive suite. So that was the most striking thing is I think one of the things that needs to happen

[00:28:17] here to elevate comp and the importance is we've got to build that bridge from the expertise, the people who are super passionate about it, to the executive suites within these different companies. So for them to understand how powerful this is, how transformational it is for their

[00:28:29] companies, that was kind of the thing. It was an aha moment for me. You probably knew that already, but for me it was like, oh, this is a gap. Yeah, they're getting the buy-in. We're hearing that a lot, particularly around pay transparency because a lot of

[00:28:40] leaders are not willing to buy into that process and maybe don't understand the benefits for it from an overall engagement perspective within their organizations. I think it's going to have a big benefit.

[00:28:49] I mean, I think, and maybe, you know, my guess is a lot of people think about it and maybe it's a punitive thing. It's going to cost me money and time. I think with the right positioning and the right ridge, like I talked about, then

[00:29:01] people should and could view it as a strategic advantage to know that I've got pay equity, it allows me to attract people, talent in a way that's, you know, transformational for a business. I think that's a job that, you know, companies like PayScale have to do.

[00:29:14] We have to help bridge that gap between the comp expert and the people who own the money, the budget at those companies. Great. Thank you very much, Chris. It's a pleasure. Thank you. And then I heard, I went to one session led by John Radford.

[00:29:28] I had a bit of a fangirl moment there, but he was also talking about the hard and soft skills that we're going to need as comp pros in the future. So some of the things that you mentioned, but also strategic agility, critical

[00:29:41] thinking were flagged high on the list of new skills along with data storytelling and the ability to develop and deliver multimode communication channels for different audiences. So like leaning into that pay transparency. So yeah, that was a really cool session.

[00:29:57] Really thinking about, you know, how are we equipped for the future? And in that vein, I spoke to Mindy Stone, who's our Senior Director of Rewards, HR Ops and Talent Acquisition here at PayScale to find out from her

[00:30:13] what skills she felt she should be acquiring in the future. So let's hear what she had to say. Hello, I'm here with Mindy Stone, who is our Senior Director of Reward, HR Operations and Talent Acquisition. Welcome, Mindy. Now you were in Cincinnati at World at Work 2.

[00:30:30] How did you find the show? Well, Ruth, thank you. I thought it was amazing and wonderful. You know, you take for granted when you haven't been necessarily in person as often in the last few years how great an event like that can really be, how good

[00:30:50] it makes you feel when you start to see all of these people sort of all going towards the same mission. And I think we're all of the organizations that sent people should be really proud of what they're doing, where they're spending their money, what was accomplished

[00:31:09] while we were all there. And I just felt like it was a really good feeling all the way around. I thought the event was well-ran and just a lot of good vibes came from that. Great.

[00:31:20] And you were one of two of the reward team from PayScale that made it to World at Work this year. I love going as a comp professional, as a reward professional, because I see it as a great personal development opportunity.

[00:31:33] It's great to think about the skills that I might need for the future of what reward management will look like. Was there any takeaways that you got from that perspective? Yes, certainly. And I feel that same thing.

[00:31:47] I feel like there's a lot of goodness that comes from the opportunities that take you away from sort of the day to day. And you might even feel like you get stuck in a certain thought process or a way of

[00:32:02] which you think things should be done or how they should be operating. And I got into a couple of those sessions and I walked away thinking, you know what? They're right. There is a different way of thinking about this.

[00:32:15] And not to get into all the specifics about that necessarily, but one of the things I think this is just sort of an overarching theme when you think about transparency in general. I know we talk a lot about pay transparency, the requirements of those things and how

[00:32:29] that came about and who should be doing it, who doesn't have to do it yet. But, you know, sort of those impending things. But I feel like we should be thinking about it from a rewards transparency. So.

[00:32:43] I, you know, by title, of course, you can tell that so I have both the benefits and the comps, so I attend sessions related to both. And my takeaway is that we have an opportunity to be more transparent on the reward side as a whole.

[00:33:00] And what I mean by that is, well, there's things that you can be transparent about from a pay, from the pay standpoint, I think that makes most sense. Like I understand what that all means.

[00:33:11] And I think most people do because they think about their base pay, they think about equity, think about their bonus structures and things of that nature. When we think about benefits, and then I'll group that all into rewards, I think we really focus on what we are doing.

[00:33:27] I heard one of the speakers talk about if you really want people to get bought into what you're doing for the entire year or for the entire segment or portion of the year, whatever you're talking about, you really need to be transparent about what you're not

[00:33:41] going to do. Just out of the gate, tell people what this means, why you're not doing it and and then refocus everybody, redirect them on what you are doing and make it more about rewards transparency as a whole.

[00:33:55] So that's what I feel like we could come away with. I think that that comes down to just great communication and then internally working with your communication folks to help you figure that out for your culture, for your environment. Great, thanks, Mindy.

[00:34:09] Yeah, that was something definitely I picked up too is, you know, in the age of transparency, be that pay transparency, reward transparency, data transparency, we're all going to have to be much better communicators using multi sources for communication and also communicating with multi stakeholders.

[00:34:28] Well, thanks for sharing those thoughts, Mindy, and we'll speak to you again soon. Take care. Thank you. OK, well, that's all we've got for today, I think, Liz. Hopefully the audience has enjoyed hearing from all those other voices as well as

[00:34:44] ours. Any final thoughts from you, Liz, as we close out this episode? The only thing I'd say, Ruth, is I'd give World at Work Total Rewards Conference a 10 out of 10. I think if somebody is considering going, they definitely should.

[00:34:57] HR and comp professionals don't have an opportunity, as you said, to be with 2,000 of their peers all at once. Kind of the perfect size and you can share things that you might not be able to share in your regular day-to-day job. So, yeah, again, 10 out of 10.

[00:35:12] And hopefully I get to go next year too. Right, I think it's in Orlando next year, I think, the venue for next year. So, yeah, so start talking to whoever's your budget holder, seeing if they will allow you to put in a placeholder to attend next year.

[00:35:30] Well, that's all we've got time for today. I hope if you didn't make it to World at Work, this gives you a little bit of a flavour of what went on. I personally loved catching up with many of you who listened to the podcast in person.

[00:35:42] So thanks to all of you that came to say hello. And as always, if you want to talk about anything to do with the podcast, just email us at coffee at payscale.com. And it's Liz and I that will be manning that.

[00:35:54] And also do check out our event page, as I said, at payscale.com. You can see that summary of key takeaways that I mentioned earlier. And we also have a wrap up on the three stage sessions that we led.

[00:36:11] So there's a summary of the key takeaways from those three sessions, thought leadership sessions that we did. So as always, thanks again for listening and we look forward to hearing you on our next podcast. Thank you very much.