Dave Burwick - CEO of Boston Beer

[00:00:00] I know you're gonna find it, you've got to keep on at it

[00:00:10] Hi everybody this is Bob Goodwin President of Career Club and welcome to another episode of Career Club Live

[00:00:17] Before we begin I just want to mention a couple things that we're doing at Career Club

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[00:01:14] So with that and the commercial over please let me introduce today's guest

[00:01:20] I'm really excited we're very honored and pleased to have Dave Burwick who by the time you hear this will be the very recently retired as of April 1st

[00:01:29] CEO of the Boston Beer Company which are iconic brands that you know like Sam Adams, Twisted Tea and Truly Seltzer

[00:01:38] So Dave is a visionary leader in the beverage industry as you can tell

[00:01:45] And with a story career that spans across major brands like Peats, Coffee and Tea, Executive Roles of PepsiCo

[00:01:51] I'm sure we'll talk about Mountain Dew somewhere during this

[00:01:54] Dave brings the wealth of experience in leading companies through phases of significant growth and innovation

[00:02:00] And again I'm very keen to learn about some of his leadership principles in high growth companies

[00:02:06] Under his leadership Boston beers embrace new challenges and trends

[00:02:09] Positioning itself as a leader in the craft beer and beyond sectors

[00:02:13] So again we're just joining us as Dave shares insights into his approach to leadership and how culture and innovation drive success

[00:02:21] And with that Dave Burwick welcome

[00:02:24] Thanks very much Bob I'm glad to be here

[00:02:26] No it's so nice to have you where do we find you today where are you

[00:02:29] Today I'm in my office in the seaport in Boston

[00:02:33] It's actually my last day as the President CEO of Boston Beer Company after six years in this role

[00:02:39] But actually 19 years associated with the company since I joined the board back in 2005

[00:02:44] So it's been a really wonderful long run with a great company, great people

[00:02:49] And now I get to face that fork in the road again which I'm very much looking forward to doing

[00:02:55] Well we'll unpack and explore that but before we do anything else congratulations

[00:03:00] You have had a fantastic run there and driven amazing growth

[00:03:04] And with today being your last day there

[00:03:07] There's a lot to celebrate and again really appreciate you making some time for us

[00:03:13] As is our want to do on career club live Dave we'd just like to get to know you a little bit as a human being first before we dive into all the worky stuff

[00:03:22] So where were you born and raised

[00:03:24] I was born in Worcester, Massachusetts which is about 40 miles west of Boston

[00:03:29] And when you grew up in Worcester you said you called it Wista

[00:03:32] And that's where I grew up in Wista and I was I grew up in the early in the 60s

[00:03:39] I was an only child so a little bit different from most pretty much all my friends

[00:03:43] My parents were divorced when I was very young so I was really raised by a single mom in central Massachusetts

[00:03:50] Wow well I appreciate you sharing that

[00:03:53] I just signed up then what are a couple quick lessons that you learned from your single mom

[00:03:58] Yeah I mean you learn you learn a lot and I think the first thing I'd say learned was just how to be independent

[00:04:05] First as an only child I mean yeah you have to learn how to kind of entertain yourself and to kind of seek your own path

[00:04:11] And to do you know to make a lot of decisions about what you're going to do

[00:04:14] So I think independence I would say you know with that comes some creativity because you're entertaining yourself

[00:04:22] And of course obviously you have friends you play with and stuff as a kid but the creativity piece came through I think also honestly the resilience

[00:04:29] And you know this was in a time when couples really weren't getting divorced

[00:04:36] And I had no friends whose parents were divorced who were only children

[00:04:42] And my mom was very young when she got married and she had me and so she was a 26 year old woman

[00:04:49] And they were with a son at home who wanted to start a new life

[00:04:53] So it wasn't an easy environment necessarily to grow up in

[00:04:57] I mean I was very fortunate we I'd say we were probably like middle class, upper middle class family

[00:05:02] We weren't I wasn't wanting for anything I didn't live a privileged childhood but it wasn't unprivileged either

[00:05:08] I'd say there was definitely a safety net and I was very fortunate to have that

[00:05:12] But at the same time you kind of have to you know chart your own path in that situation

[00:05:18] And when I look back it's funny it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't the best childhood but I think I learned so much from it

[00:05:25] That I think it actually made me sort of who I am today and actually went to some really wonderful things happening to me in my life

[00:05:34] Wow I appreciate you sharing that it's it's interesting

[00:05:39] Dave as you know we work with people in job search whether they just find us independently or through reductions in force

[00:05:47] And what you just shared I think is so powerful because it humanizes you right and it creates a narrative that for sure has informed your career

[00:06:00] How you think about things, your drive. I love what you talked about with independence, creativity and resilience

[00:06:06] You just told me three really important things about you that are very formative and durable about you

[00:06:13] That is ironic if I was interviewing you like I would really gravitate to those things it's not just sort of the XYZ on a resume

[00:06:22] Or where'd you go to business school kind of stuff but it's like no this is who defines him as a human being

[00:06:28] And it's going to take a lot to knock this guy over because he's already been through a lot

[00:06:34] And those are just really great qualities I appreciate you sharing that stuff I wasn't even expecting that that was awesome

[00:06:40] Yeah well I think you know those formative experiences are really important I think you only realize the benefit like in hindsight

[00:06:47] Later on in life you kind of realize when you look back and I do think it's important to be reflective and self aware and understand

[00:06:54] And obviously as you get older you start to think about these things more and more you think about things that happened

[00:06:59] And you wonder you try to find meaning in them and then it's interesting because a lot of times it all kind of comes together somehow

[00:07:05] It clicks and you realize I get it now that's why I am who I am and that's why I've been able to do these things maybe not do those things

[00:07:12] But it's been really beneficial for me and I think I'm thinking back I was just watching the Academy Awards

[00:07:20] And Robert Downey Jr. won for Best Supporting Actor at Oppenheim

[00:07:25] And the first thing he said was I want to thank my awful childhood for this

[00:07:30] And it actually obviously like the resume I don't want to make it seem that his childhood was awful in different ways

[00:07:37] But I think there's something about that that struck a chord with me because I realized that he internalized some of his experiences as a young child

[00:07:45] As growing up and it made him stronger it made him better and it made him more self aware and it allowed him to be very successful

[00:07:52] And I think for me I feel this I feel in a way very fortunate that I had some of those challenges because it made me who I am

[00:08:01] Yeah, well definitely embracing and you know a lot of people say well if you had to do it all over again what would you do?

[00:08:08] And I think the wise answer is nothing because that's made me who I am

[00:08:13] And if that had been different I would be a different person and I'd like how this is all turned out

[00:08:20] So there's a bunch of things we'll pick up on. Let's just kind of get to this little bit

[00:08:25] So where did you go to university? Where'd you go to college?

[00:08:28] Yeah, so I went to a place called Middlebury College in Vermont

[00:08:32] And which is I think where I lost my accent and I had a great experience in Middlebury

[00:08:39] I played the cross for a couple years and then I decided my junior year that I was going to like throw it all away and go over

[00:08:45] And go away for the full year and I went up going to University of Edinburgh for the year

[00:08:49] And had a tremendous time and actually I was pre-med course

[00:08:54] I was very fortunate that my mother's father was an MD and he had a great positive influence on my life

[00:09:01] In a way sort of a surrogate, definitely a surrogate father who is actually the best man in my wedding

[00:09:05] That's cool

[00:09:06] And I had always had that kind of impetus to go to be a doctor like him and a little bit of pressure

[00:09:12] And when I got to Edinburgh I realized there are other things I'm interested in

[00:09:17] I love this international component I'm interested in maybe business one day

[00:09:20] I was a history major in the end

[00:09:21] So it was the decision I made that kind of led me down a different path away from medicine more toward business

[00:09:29] And then you went to B-school as well, yes?

[00:09:32] I did so yeah, so I worked for four years after that and I went to Harvard Business School

[00:09:37] And graduated back in 89 and that kind of led me down a different path which is more toward brand management

[00:09:42] And then at Pepsi and then beyond

[00:09:45] Yeah, so let's just use that as a segue then

[00:09:48] Just like kind of give people just a little bit of a brief kind of picture of your career arc

[00:09:54] So coming out of Harvard where you went to Pepsi next?

[00:09:58] I did, I went to Pepsi I really decided I wanted to be sort of a brand manager

[00:10:03] And there were a handful of companies, obviously Proctor & Gamble and Pepsi

[00:10:07] And a few others, I guess more than a few others that really had that

[00:10:12] Presented that opportunity for training and learning how to build brands, what does that mean?

[00:10:16] And can that lead to more of a general management path

[00:10:18] And that's what I did, I was very fortunate I went, it was a great era for Pepsi

[00:10:22] I started in the summer of 89

[00:10:25] And I started as the assistant brand manager on Diap Pepsi

[00:10:29] And my career just went from there and I worked many different brands, many different types of roles

[00:10:34] Channel marketing, field marketing, I spent a couple years

[00:10:37] A year in Tampa, a year in Orlando, doing that time

[00:10:40] People from the headquarters marketing roles were pushed out into the field to learn how the business works

[00:10:45] And to do these field marketing roles and I think

[00:10:48] In the end that was actually really not a very glamorous job but very helpful to me in my career

[00:10:54] And that was a big progression of brand management roles that led to more GM type roles of Pepsi

[00:11:00] And then after Pepsi where did you go?

[00:11:03] Yes, for Pepsi I decided I needed to atone for my sins

[00:11:06] We didn't realize we were harming people by selling sugar-laced products

[00:11:11] I ended up going to Weight Watchers and I ran Weight Watchers North America

[00:11:15] So my Pepsi progression was really through the brands

[00:11:18] I was a chief marketing officer at Pepsi twice

[00:11:23] In North America, then actually I went to International, it was the CMO for International

[00:11:26] Then I came back to North America, it was the CMO again

[00:11:30] I'd run the Pepsi Quaker, Tropical and Gatorade in Canada

[00:11:34] So a lot of great experiences there

[00:11:36] But coming out of that I knew I wanted to, you know, I love brand building and marketing

[00:11:40] But I wanted to be more of a general manager

[00:11:42] And that's what Weight Watchers presented that opportunity to me

[00:11:46] We didn't have to move our family, we had four kids all growing up in Connecticut

[00:11:50] And it was a great move at the time

[00:11:52] I stayed there for about three years during the Jennifer Hudson era and George Barkley

[00:11:58] And we did some really exciting things to make that brand relevant

[00:12:01] And to grow the business group quite well during that time

[00:12:05] But then I realized Weight Watchers is a great company

[00:12:09] But it's also selling, it's really selling a learning process

[00:12:13] It's a services company

[00:12:15] And that provides a lot of value to people

[00:12:19] I really felt like for me I wanted to sell something more concrete

[00:12:22] I wanted to go back to something concrete

[00:12:24] And I ended up at Pete's Moving to California with our two youngest kids

[00:12:28] And my wife Carrie to run Pete's Coffee based in the Bay Area

[00:12:33] And I did that for one over five years

[00:12:35] And that was a company that had just been public and been bought

[00:12:39] And taken private by a private equity company called JAB, who's a terrific company

[00:12:44] I got to work with those folks and learned a lot from them

[00:12:47] And we took the business from about, when I got there maybe $350 million business

[00:12:51] It was close to 900 million, what I got five years later

[00:12:54] And that Pete's Coffee, I mean there's a lot of, you know

[00:12:58] There's coffee shops all over the West Coast

[00:13:00] There's some in Chicago and D.C. and Boston

[00:13:02] But really the big part of Pete's business was selling beans through grocery stores

[00:13:06] Through the country

[00:13:07] And through what we call direct store delivery

[00:13:10] Where we roast the coffee

[00:13:12] We put it on our own trucks and deliver it to stores

[00:13:15] So we got it to stores more quickly and it's more fresh

[00:13:18] And ultimately the taste profile is better

[00:13:21] And so that was really interesting

[00:13:24] When I worked with private equity I thought it was definitely different

[00:13:27] And I just learned a ton

[00:13:29] And you know, there's a lot of distractions that you get

[00:13:33] Working with big companies, they're public companies

[00:13:36] And have all these mechanisms in place to do certain things in certain ways

[00:13:41] When you work for a private equity company you're trying to get growth

[00:13:44] You're trying to get top line growth, bottom line growth

[00:13:46] And you don't want to, you want to reduce as much friction as you can

[00:13:49] And I think you're able to make decisions more quickly

[00:13:52] And kind of just move

[00:13:54] And then if you fail you try again and you do something else

[00:13:58] So the Pete's thing was terrific

[00:14:00] Now while I had been at Pepsi as the CMO

[00:14:05] I joined the board of Basta Beer back in 2005

[00:14:08] And at the time Basta Beer was looking out

[00:14:10] They were just, you know, Sam Adams was growing tremendously

[00:14:13] The craft beer business was really a renaissance for beer

[00:14:17] And they were looking for a marketer who could come in and help them

[00:14:20] With some of their stuff

[00:14:22] Because every day when they woke up the company was bigger than any company they'd ever run

[00:14:27] And they were doing things they'd never done before

[00:14:29] So I was very fortunate to join the board of the company then

[00:14:33] And I stayed on it probably too long

[00:14:36] And basically essentially 13 years later or so

[00:14:40] When I was running Pete's the prior CEO had retired

[00:14:44] And was moving on and they were looking for somebody

[00:14:47] And Jim Cook is the founder, he owns 20% of the company

[00:14:50] He's public, he owns 20% of the company but he's 100% of the shares

[00:14:53] Which is only kind of a deal that you would get if you were like

[00:14:56] Mark Zuckerberg or Brian Chesky right now

[00:14:58] You wouldn't get it if you had a CPG company

[00:15:00] But he did and so really it was Jim's decision on the CEO

[00:15:04] Really solely, I mean the board helps

[00:15:06] And for Jim he really trusts it's so important to him

[00:15:10] And working with people and knowing them

[00:15:12] He never really believed in the process of going outside to find a CEO

[00:15:16] Because he felt like it's a 50% chance of failure

[00:15:19] And it's a much higher chance of success

[00:15:22] If you bring it to somebody who is connected to the company

[00:15:25] And having been on the board for 13 years at that point

[00:15:27] He knew me, the board knew me

[00:15:29] I understood the culture of the company, I understood the business

[00:15:32] It turned out to be a really nice fit

[00:15:34] And actually a really good transition to go from the board

[00:15:38] To actually running the company, actually my successor here

[00:15:41] Michael Spline is going to do the same thing

[00:15:43] From he's been on the board for eight years

[00:15:45] And I think we've proven that it can really

[00:15:47] It works pretty well

[00:15:49] And it's just your chance for success are so much greater

[00:15:53] So from just being a board member

[00:15:56] I joined the company as CEO six years ago

[00:15:58] And just literally today, finishing up my run as CEO

[00:16:02] That's wild

[00:16:04] Well, there's so much to unpack and all this

[00:16:06] But super quick before we go off of this

[00:16:09] What do we find Dave Burwick doing

[00:16:12] And I guess we're going to find him doing a lot more of it

[00:16:14] Starting tomorrow

[00:16:16] What do you like to do when you're not at work?

[00:16:18] What are you interested in?

[00:16:19] Yeah, it's funny, during COVID

[00:16:22] A lot of people ended up on a Peloton

[00:16:25] And I was a runner, I've been a runner before

[00:16:27] But I was getting to the point where my knees weren't holding up

[00:16:30] As much as I wanted

[00:16:31] So I started on the Peloton and then coming out of COVID

[00:16:33] I realized, you know what?

[00:16:34] I want to get out on the street

[00:16:35] So I started to ride it

[00:16:37] So I'd say, I have a road bike

[00:16:39] I have a mountain bike so I love to ride the bikes

[00:16:42] I also rejuvenated my golf game

[00:16:46] Which I put on hold for like 25 years for four kids

[00:16:49] Because with kids, you know

[00:16:51] And I know you have four kids as well Bob

[00:16:53] You can't go give a half a day every weekend to go play

[00:16:57] Remember, I mean you can

[00:16:58] But I think it would be a very selfish thing to do

[00:17:01] And so our kids were very active

[00:17:02] And I was very happy to kind of let their lives come first

[00:17:06] And we put golf on the sideline

[00:17:08] And then part of the deal when we moved back to Boston

[00:17:11] Six years ago from Pete's in California

[00:17:13] Was to commit to like, we were empty nesters at that point

[00:17:17] Commit to playing golf

[00:17:18] And I got my wife convinced that she would do it

[00:17:21] And now she plays more golf than I do

[00:17:24] And she's become actually quite good

[00:17:26] So I think golf is something as well

[00:17:28] We like to do, we love dogs

[00:17:30] We had two Goldens as of last week

[00:17:33] Now unfortunately we only have one Golden

[00:17:35] But we love to do stuff outside with the dog

[00:17:39] So that's kind of what we like to do

[00:17:41] Not that complicated

[00:17:43] But it's something, try to stay active

[00:17:46] And I read a lot of different things

[00:17:49] And watch a little HBO, little sports

[00:17:52] Boston sports of course, what else you know

[00:17:54] Which is kind of a dark era right now

[00:17:56] For Boston sports except for the Southex

[00:17:58] But maybe the Bruins are going to be okay

[00:18:00] But not the Red Sox or the Patriots

[00:18:03] That's for sure

[00:18:04] But it's kind of fun because I've lived outside

[00:18:06] Of my native state for almost 30 years

[00:18:08] So it's interesting to be like a Red Sox fan

[00:18:11] Living in California

[00:18:13] It's just not the same as when you come back in

[00:18:16] And you just get, you have all the camaraderie

[00:18:19] Of everybody commiserating with you at the same time

[00:18:22] It's been kind of interesting and fun

[00:18:24] That's fun, good for you

[00:18:25] I suppose you'll be getting a lot more game time in

[00:18:29] And I have to ask, favorite golf course?

[00:18:33] Well, I would say, that's a good question

[00:18:37] I would say like, you know, pebbles

[00:18:39] Kind of a nice place to play

[00:18:41] So I like that one a lot

[00:18:44] And that's probably my favorite course

[00:18:46] That I've got

[00:18:47] And aspirational course?

[00:18:50] Something you haven't played but you want to play?

[00:18:52] Well, love to go, obviously like everyone

[00:18:54] Love to go to St. Andrews and, you know,

[00:18:56] Living in Scotland for a year

[00:18:57] But I was a student

[00:18:58] I wasn't running around like golf clubs

[00:19:00] So I'd love to go back and play there

[00:19:02] That's on my wish list right now

[00:19:05] That sounds pretty awesome

[00:19:06] Alright, let's get into this

[00:19:08] So I really appreciate what you were sharing

[00:19:12] About growing up

[00:19:14] And some of the things that you took away from

[00:19:17] That experience and that took away

[00:19:19] But integrated, based on that

[00:19:22] The first thing, because you've been in this

[00:19:25] General Manager role, CEO role, public company

[00:19:28] You know, what are the leadership

[00:19:32] Qualities or values that you think

[00:19:35] Best describe your leadership style?

[00:19:38] I'd say, this probably is rooted more

[00:19:41] Sort of in my childhood too

[00:19:43] I think, one, I mean, I'm curious

[00:19:46] Like I'd like to learn things

[00:19:48] And I'm very interested in constantly learning

[00:19:51] And I think that's really important

[00:19:52] Because the world, particularly when you're

[00:19:53] In the consumer world, consumers are changing all the time

[00:19:56] And the marketplace is changing

[00:19:58] You have to keep learning and adapting as you go

[00:20:00] But I just generally curious about things

[00:20:03] I'd say, aside from the desire to learn

[00:20:08] I mean, I'm pretty hardworking

[00:20:11] Because I think I had to

[00:20:13] One thing I have learned early is that

[00:20:15] You have to only rely on yourself

[00:20:17] To get to do things honestly

[00:20:19] And if people come in and help you

[00:20:20] If you have mentors, like I said

[00:20:21] That my grandfather was wonderful to me

[00:20:24] That's all the better

[00:20:27] That's gravy

[00:20:28] But I've learned to become just self-reliant

[00:20:29] And hardworking

[00:20:30] Know that if you don't do it, it doesn't get done

[00:20:32] So I think that's important

[00:20:33] I think even at this company

[00:20:35] We're a little over $2 billion company

[00:20:38] But I get involved in doing things

[00:20:42] I'm not just directing people

[00:20:43] Because sometimes there's no one else to do it

[00:20:45] You've got to do it

[00:20:46] So I think that's really important

[00:20:49] I think also it's connecting to people

[00:20:53] I mean, it's a very human thing

[00:20:55] Businesses are, right?

[00:20:56] I mean, you don't get stuff done

[00:20:57] Without working with and through people

[00:21:00] And if you have to know how to connect to people

[00:21:03] You have to understand how to be empathetic

[00:21:05] You have to be present and be willing to listen

[00:21:07] And truly listen to people

[00:21:08] And I like doing that, I do

[00:21:10] Because I think again, as a child

[00:21:13] I was looking for people to connect it

[00:21:15] Right?

[00:21:16] I needed those connections

[00:21:17] So you learn how do you

[00:21:18] How do you have a conversation?

[00:21:20] How do you ask about

[00:21:22] Learn about people's personal lives

[00:21:23] That they're willing to share

[00:21:24] That I think could be really important

[00:21:25] And understand them

[00:21:26] So I think showing the empathy

[00:21:28] And showing the willingness to connect

[00:21:30] I think is really important

[00:21:32] And I think at the end, ideally, hopefully

[00:21:34] You come out as sort of being perceived

[00:21:36] As real, authentic and humble

[00:21:40] And calling yourself humble

[00:21:42] Is probably a risk right there

[00:21:44] Because that's not...

[00:21:46] I think humility is really important

[00:21:48] Because I think if you have to take the credit

[00:21:50] If you think you have all the answers

[00:21:52] Then you're never going to get to the right place

[00:21:54] And I think IQ is important in life

[00:21:57] Yeah, it is

[00:21:58] But at some point it tops out pretty quickly

[00:22:00] And I think emotional intelligence

[00:22:03] Situational intelligence

[00:22:05] Understand how do you get stuff done

[00:22:08] With and through people

[00:22:09] And actually at the same time

[00:22:11] Make them feel excited and motivated

[00:22:13] To do it again

[00:22:14] And demonstrate to them that you're

[00:22:16] Help, that they're learning

[00:22:17] And they're growing as well

[00:22:19] That's really important

[00:22:20] So I think some of those skills

[00:22:21] I talked about are really essential

[00:22:24] To being successful in business

[00:22:28] I'll give maybe a comment and then a question

[00:22:30] So I think curiosity and humility

[00:22:32] Go together, right?

[00:22:34] Because curiosity says I don't know everything

[00:22:36] Which is a demonstration of some humility

[00:22:40] Like I don't have it all figured out

[00:22:42] And when you've got your Harvard Business School

[00:22:46] MBA, CEO, CMO

[00:22:49] Big companies that people have heard

[00:22:51] Of the brands, know the brands

[00:22:53] You can see somebody getting to a level

[00:22:56] Self-satisfaction kind of easily

[00:22:59] Has your...

[00:23:01] Have some of those values

[00:23:04] Evolved over time

[00:23:06] Like you've learned some of these things

[00:23:08] Or has more of this been innate

[00:23:10] And this has kind of been Dave all along

[00:23:13] That's a good question

[00:23:14] I think, I guess when I look back

[00:23:16] I think that I've always been that way

[00:23:18] I think, but I do believe people change

[00:23:20] I think people should always seek to change

[00:23:22] To get better

[00:23:23] But I think your fundamental core

[00:23:25] I think over time maybe I've become more comfortable

[00:23:29] Like with who I am

[00:23:31] And more knowledgeable about who I am

[00:23:34] And more confident and sort of just

[00:23:38] Acting that way and demonstrating that

[00:23:40] And kind of following my instincts

[00:23:42] And just being who I am

[00:23:44] But I'm not sure that...

[00:23:47] I mean I think you've learned a lot

[00:23:49] Over the course of time

[00:23:50] You've learned through failure

[00:23:52] You've learned through success

[00:23:54] You've learned through failure

[00:23:56] And you've learned through your experiences

[00:23:58] So you adapt and maybe you become

[00:24:00] You have better judgment

[00:24:02] You refine your instincts

[00:24:05] You kind of have pattern recognition

[00:24:07] So you've seen things happen before

[00:24:09] And you can almost predict

[00:24:11] If you're lucky sometimes you can predict

[00:24:13] What's coming up around the corner

[00:24:15] But I think who you are as a human

[00:24:17] You know, I don't know

[00:24:19] I mean I don't think I've changed much

[00:24:21] I just don't think I maybe knew

[00:24:23] What I was going to do until later in my career

[00:24:25] Yeah, and we do have to be reflective

[00:24:27] Of those things

[00:24:29] I don't...

[00:24:31] And sometimes that's with the benefit of hindsight

[00:24:33] To is like back to pattern recognition

[00:24:35] Being able to see hey I think

[00:24:37] Actually the reason I'm successful

[00:24:39] Is because of these qualities

[00:24:41] Maybe not what I thought in the moment

[00:24:43] I mentioned in the introduction

[00:24:45] You've been involved and you sort of

[00:24:47] Touched on some of these

[00:24:49] During kind of your career background

[00:24:51] You've been involved in some very high growth

[00:24:54] Businesses I think you were

[00:24:56] You know kind of launched the Mountain Dew

[00:24:58] Rocket ship and then you talked about

[00:25:00] Pete's and you talked about

[00:25:02] Weight Watchers and then obviously Sam Adams

[00:25:04] And Boston Beer have done very very well

[00:25:06] Truly just like exploded

[00:25:08] We first crossed paths

[00:25:10] When I was leading the Wall Street business

[00:25:12] At numerator and getting our data

[00:25:14] In the hands of the sell side folks

[00:25:17] And watching truly just like go

[00:25:19] Insane

[00:25:21] What's

[00:25:23] What's in your DNA

[00:25:25] That's allowed you to identify

[00:25:27] These things one and then two

[00:25:30] How you lead through rapid change

[00:25:33] In rapid growth

[00:25:36] Yeah, I would start by saying

[00:25:38] This was a quote I remember the Steve Reinem

[00:25:40] Who's the former chairman of PepsiCo

[00:25:42] Something he said one time

[00:25:45] He basically said growth is like oxygen

[00:25:47] And it is and that's

[00:25:49] It's oxygen that fuels both your personal

[00:25:51] Growth as an individual

[00:25:53] Your professional growth as a leader

[00:25:55] And so that always stuck with me

[00:25:57] There's something you know

[00:25:59] The more oxygen in the room the better

[00:26:01] And so I think and again I think growing up at Pepsi

[00:26:03] That's what it was always about

[00:26:05] It was always about growth

[00:26:07] And we're always pushing to grow more

[00:26:09] So I think that's kind of in my

[00:26:11] Over 20 years of Pepsi became part of my DNA

[00:26:14] Was this desire and this

[00:26:16] Striving for growth I think the way you get there

[00:26:18] Really is understanding

[00:26:21] The consumer it starts with the consumer

[00:26:23] So you can when you run a business

[00:26:25] You can it's much easier to cut costs

[00:26:27] You know you control that

[00:26:29] So you can you can find different ways

[00:26:32] To cut costs or reduce expenses

[00:26:34] But you cannot force a consumer

[00:26:36] In the case of obviously consumer based business

[00:26:38] To buy your product you can't do that

[00:26:40] It's much harder so I think the more

[00:26:42] You can understand the consumer

[00:26:44] What they're looking for how they relate

[00:26:46] To brands and really actually it's really about

[00:26:48] Connecting the dots how do you connect

[00:26:50] The dots between the consumer

[00:26:52] The culture that they live in

[00:26:54] And your brand and when you find a way

[00:26:56] To connect those dots like for example

[00:26:58] Mountain Dew is a good example

[00:27:00] Story because we did that with

[00:27:02] Mountain Dew at a time when

[00:27:04] Really it was a brand that was

[00:27:06] That was marketed to Gen Xers

[00:27:08] That generation has been forgotten

[00:27:10] And really around the culture

[00:27:12] Of action sports you know

[00:27:14] Base jumping street loosing snow

[00:27:16] Snowmobiling you know BMX black

[00:27:18] All that stuff was just coming to the

[00:27:20] Four through ESPN and the

[00:27:22] Started as extreme games then became the X games

[00:27:24] We were able to find a way

[00:27:26] To connect the brand which then

[00:27:28] The brand itself the product itself

[00:27:30] Mountain Dew has is low

[00:27:32] Carbonation so the least amount

[00:27:34] Of carbonation of any soft drinks

[00:27:36] You can drink it fast it's very refreshing

[00:27:38] And then we had a little more sugar

[00:27:40] A little more caffeine and we always

[00:27:42] Said that Mountain Dew for example

[00:27:44] The product was like exhilaration

[00:27:46] In a bottle right so then how do you

[00:27:48] Take that exhilaration the product

[00:27:50] Based of basis for exhilaration

[00:27:52] And demonstrate that through

[00:27:54] The emotive aspects of the brand

[00:27:56] The advertising and the brand positioning

[00:27:58] And that we used action sports

[00:28:00] Extreme sports we didn't want to call them

[00:28:02] To kind of really bring that to life

[00:28:04] And that was certainly a cultural

[00:28:06] For a whole generation so that's

[00:28:08] An example where you connected the brand

[00:28:10] The product the consumer the culture

[00:28:12] And when that all comes together

[00:28:14] Where people don't even have to think about it

[00:28:16] You know they don't see the

[00:28:18] They don't see the strings

[00:28:20] You know you're kind of

[00:28:22] You're just putting something out there

[00:28:24] That they can easily understand

[00:28:26] And gravitate toward that's when you get

[00:28:28] To hyper growth that's when you

[00:28:30] Get to create something that's when

[00:28:32] You get lightening in the bottle it's obviously

[00:28:34] When you do that it also requires

[00:28:36] You know luck and timing and other things

[00:28:38] But that's

[00:28:40] You know that's what growth is all

[00:28:42] About I think that's what I've spent

[00:28:44] My whole career trying to figure out

[00:28:46] How do you keep how do you create

[00:28:48] Lightening in a bottle how do you draw

[00:28:50] Those connections between the consumer

[00:28:52] The culture and the brand

[00:28:54] Would you consider I don't know

[00:28:56] Would you can have considered

[00:28:58] Weight Watchers Pete's Mountain Dew

[00:29:00] Any of the brands that you've been on

[00:29:02] When you got there

[00:29:06] My segment

[00:29:08] Yeah I think I think I think Dew

[00:29:10] Was not you know Dew was growing

[00:29:12] Like you know mid single digits

[00:29:14] We got into like mid teens

[00:29:16] You know up to the twenties

[00:29:18] So it was fundamentally healthy

[00:29:20] I think Weight Watchers is

[00:29:22] Very cyclical and they're

[00:29:24] Either you hit it or you don't

[00:29:26] I think with Jennifer Hudson

[00:29:28] Using her as a spokesperson

[00:29:30] And her incredible story

[00:29:32] Was

[00:29:34] And I wasn't the one that actually

[00:29:36] Chose her they chose right before I got there

[00:29:38] But I was very very involved in the actual

[00:29:40] Brand campaign the communications

[00:29:42] I think that was to sign her

[00:29:44] Was genius and I think that took

[00:29:46] That did turn that business around

[00:29:48] In a big way because

[00:29:50] She was so aspirational and so

[00:29:52] Authentic at the same time

[00:29:54] To consumers and inspirational

[00:29:56] That was a good one I think

[00:29:58] Pete's was

[00:30:00] Pete's was always doing pretty well

[00:30:02] But I think we kind of we kind of dialed it up

[00:30:04] And we at Pete's part of the strategy too

[00:30:06] There for a company was we have this

[00:30:08] Brand this is actually a boomer brand

[00:30:10] It's a tremendous coffee brand super high quality

[00:30:12] You know I think so it's still the best

[00:30:14] Coffee that's sourced and roasted by hand

[00:30:16] And this store in California

[00:30:18] Kind of kind of jewel

[00:30:20] I think we was a little bit of a sleepy

[00:30:22] Brand where the aspirations weren't that large

[00:30:24] It was like which was going to make a coffee

[00:30:26] Whatever happens happens and

[00:30:28] And I think we saw an opportunity to

[00:30:30] Drive harder and harder against that

[00:30:32] Brand but also to recognize

[00:30:34] That there are certain consumers

[00:30:36] I remember younger consumers that wanted

[00:30:38] Their own brands and so we went out

[00:30:40] We actually had an M&A strategy

[00:30:42] We bought Stumptown coffee which was based in

[00:30:44] Portland, Oregon we bought

[00:30:46] Intelligent coffee out of Chicago

[00:30:48] And they were younger like the HIPAA brands if you will

[00:30:50] So at Pete's we tried to build out a

[00:30:52] Portfolio where we could deliver coffee

[00:30:54] To different consumer segments

[00:30:56] And not try to take a brand and make it

[00:30:58] Be for everybody and so that

[00:31:00] That was the growth story of Pete's

[00:31:02] And that's how we kind of accelerated the growth

[00:31:04] There's more I guess a corporate story

[00:31:06] Of how do you build a broader portfolio of brands

[00:31:08] To take advantage of a marketplace

[00:31:10] Coffee that's just taking off and

[00:31:12] It continues to do quite well

[00:31:14] Yeah now that all makes a lot of sense

[00:31:16] And then do you find

[00:31:18] That the leadership

[00:31:20] That you needed to provide

[00:31:22] In the teams that you needed to build

[00:31:24] Looked different

[00:31:26] Behaved differently

[00:31:28] Than maybe some other teams that you had

[00:31:30] You know maybe exposure to

[00:31:32] But because you were in this hyper growth

[00:31:34] Mode several times

[00:31:36] You just needed different kinds of players

[00:31:38] Yeah well I think people have

[00:31:40] Different risk profiles for sure

[00:31:42] So I think for example

[00:31:44] Pepsi people had a very high risk profile

[00:31:46] They were taught to take risks

[00:31:48] This was Roger Rico's legacy which was

[00:31:50] And I think

[00:31:52] That's not the norm

[00:31:54] And I think part of it was

[00:31:56] People who were much more managing the downside

[00:31:58] And I think

[00:32:00] You want your CFO to manage the downside

[00:32:02] You want your head supply chain to manage the downside

[00:32:04] You don't want your head of marketing to manage the downside

[00:32:06] I'd rather have

[00:32:08] I want our CMO

[00:32:10] To scare the life out of me

[00:32:12] With his or her ideas

[00:32:14] That's the role of the CMO

[00:32:16] I think is to do that and to push the envelope

[00:32:18] And then let somebody else kind of push back

[00:32:20] And say okay maybe not all of this

[00:32:22] But yes this and this

[00:32:24] I think I never

[00:32:26] But when I moved from company to company

[00:32:28] So from Pepsi

[00:32:30] To Weight Watchers to Peach to Boston Beer

[00:32:32] There's only two people that whole time

[00:32:34] That I worked with in my past to Pepsi

[00:32:36] That I actually hired

[00:32:38] I didn't want to be that person

[00:32:40] That brings their entourage with them

[00:32:42] First of all I think it sets the wrong tone

[00:32:44] I think it can be intimidating to other people

[00:32:46] It sort of presumes that there's only one way to do things

[00:32:50] For me I really enjoy the challenge of working with a different

[00:32:52] A different leadership team

[00:32:54] With different backgrounds, different skill sets

[00:32:56] Different approaches

[00:32:58] Because I could learn from them too

[00:33:00] Selflessly I could learn from them

[00:33:02] And I also felt like it just

[00:33:04] Every business is different and needs a different outlook

[00:33:06] Now

[00:33:08] When people have the wrong fit

[00:33:10] Then you have to make changes

[00:33:12] And it's never pleasant

[00:33:14] But of course that happens over time

[00:33:16] Because if it wasn't happening

[00:33:18] Then you probably were just accepting

[00:33:20] You know a situation

[00:33:22] That you shouldn't accept

[00:33:24] So a little bit of that but I wasn't the person

[00:33:26] That came in and like shook up teams

[00:33:28] I was pretty thoughtful and considerate

[00:33:30] I wasn't the person that brought

[00:33:32] My posse with me

[00:33:34] That's not me

[00:33:36] Actually one of the two people

[00:33:38] Happened to be

[00:33:40] Became our CMO of Peach

[00:33:42] I was just worked down the street

[00:33:44] To pump organics and was looking

[00:33:46] To move on and actually came to me

[00:33:48] And he's actually a terrific, terrific retallant person

[00:33:50] He came to me, I didn't see him out

[00:33:52] So really the one person now

[00:33:54] Actually our head of corporate communications

[00:33:56] At Boston Beer got into Diego Chico

[00:33:58] I worked with a Pepsi and I actually sought him out

[00:34:00] He's the only one

[00:34:02] And I'm really glad I did

[00:34:04] He's terrific but I also feel like

[00:34:06] Respect the culture

[00:34:08] Respect the people and the leadership team

[00:34:10] And find a way to do it differently

[00:34:12] Because

[00:34:14] Usually that's going to be better

[00:34:16] Well, that kind of ties back

[00:34:18] To your learning mentality

[00:34:20] And a little bit of humility and I don't have it

[00:34:22] All figured out and maybe

[00:34:24] I can learn something from these people here

[00:34:26] As well so that's brilliant

[00:34:28] Talking

[00:34:30] About branding

[00:34:32] I love how you just sort of

[00:34:34] Painted the picture of what's the essence of the brand

[00:34:36] What's the consumer want

[00:34:38] And what's the cultural context

[00:34:40] If I follow your format there

[00:34:42] How do you see

[00:34:44] The brand as it's being

[00:34:46] Portrayed externally

[00:34:48] Also being communicated

[00:34:50] And lived out internally

[00:34:52] Yeah, I think

[00:34:54] Great brands

[00:34:56] Transmit their values to the people that work

[00:34:58] On the team and even to the

[00:35:00] Companies and I think it's helpful

[00:35:02] When people can identify with

[00:35:04] With the values

[00:35:06] It doesn't mean you have to be the consumer target

[00:35:08] Yes

[00:35:10] Because I think great marketers should be able to market to anybody

[00:35:12] Across

[00:35:14] All demographics but

[00:35:16] I think if you can, you want to be able to identify

[00:35:18] With those values. I think

[00:35:20] If you look at Boston beer, I mean

[00:35:22] Right now Boston beer are about

[00:35:24] 85% of the business of Boston

[00:35:26] Of that 2.1 billion revenue

[00:35:28] 85% of the revenue is not beer

[00:35:30] So it's Twisted Tea

[00:35:32] It's truly hard sell for a Zangry orchard cider

[00:35:34] We have dogfish head can cocktails

[00:35:36] Only 15% is beer

[00:35:38] It's either Sam Adams or

[00:35:40] Dogfish head beer

[00:35:42] But Sam Adams

[00:35:44] Still like Sam Adams Boston

[00:35:46] Lager even though it's a very small part of our

[00:35:48] Business is still

[00:35:50] Kind of represents

[00:35:52] Sort of the

[00:35:54] DNA of the company

[00:35:56] It's all about

[00:35:58] The pursuit of better beer

[00:36:00] The pursuit of excellence

[00:36:02] The pursuit of better beer

[00:36:04] It's about high quality

[00:36:06] Product that's

[00:36:08] Thoughtfully made

[00:36:10] No corners cut the

[00:36:12] Best ingredients

[00:36:14] That's really celebrated

[00:36:16] And we celebrate the triggers

[00:36:18] Of Boston Lager as well

[00:36:20] And I think that pride

[00:36:22] That goes into making Boston Lager

[00:36:24] By the way, making Lagers is the hardest

[00:36:26] Style to make

[00:36:28] You can't cover it up with a lot of hops

[00:36:30] and cover over mistakes and brewing,

[00:36:32] it stands, it comes through to the drinker.

[00:36:35] And that's sort of become sort of the North Star

[00:36:38] for the company, even though it's not really

[00:36:42] a material part of the business anymore.

[00:36:44] So I think, and people come here

[00:36:45] because they love that brand

[00:36:47] and they love the values to pursue it better

[00:36:50] is probably the simplest way to distill it

[00:36:52] that that brand represents

[00:36:53] and that's what they seek to be as well.

[00:36:56] Yeah, I think that's great.

[00:36:58] So I wanna, and I have a sense maybe where this might go,

[00:37:03] but when you, because you're not recruiting from the outside

[00:37:08] but there's turnover and you have to recruit new talent

[00:37:11] or maybe you're reconfiguring teams

[00:37:13] or something's going on.

[00:37:15] We talked about curiosity, we talked about empathy,

[00:37:19] we talked about desire to make a difference.

[00:37:23] Are those the qualities that you're interviewing for

[00:37:26] when you're assessing talent?

[00:37:30] They are, they absolutely are.

[00:37:31] And I'd say, I mean, first of all,

[00:37:34] in terms of hiring outside versus inside,

[00:37:35] we do, we have a very, what set this company apart,

[00:37:40] Boston Beer specifically over,

[00:37:41] it's actually our 40th year now was really two things.

[00:37:44] One, our brewing and R&D capability,

[00:37:46] innovation brewing, the technical,

[00:37:49] science-y part of that, the business

[00:37:51] and then the sales team.

[00:37:52] We've always invested, over vested in the sales team.

[00:37:57] I think we have the largest sales force

[00:37:58] of any brewer in America and not even accounting for size,

[00:38:01] not like on a per barrel or per case basis,

[00:38:03] but just in total raw numbers.

[00:38:06] And we have a tremendous training program

[00:38:09] and tremendous culture.

[00:38:10] So our bias is always to promote people internally,

[00:38:12] like move salespeople, certainly within sales week,

[00:38:14] almost we never go outside to hire salespeople ever, ever,

[00:38:17] except just junior level, like out of college, that's it.

[00:38:21] But then we move those people around the organization too.

[00:38:23] So our bias is to really, is to find opportunities

[00:38:27] for people inside.

[00:38:28] Having said that, the business is always changing.

[00:38:31] There are needs and capabilities that are required

[00:38:33] that you don't have internally.

[00:38:34] So you have to go outside.

[00:38:35] And I think actually bringing outside people in

[00:38:37] at the right amount, the right levels

[00:38:40] is also helps the company in total.

[00:38:42] So it's like the question is

[00:38:44] how do you get the right balance of both?

[00:38:46] Now when we do go outside,

[00:38:48] like when I think about four things

[00:38:50] when I interview people, four traits.

[00:38:54] And sort of the ones you mentioned

[00:38:55] which kind of tie to these, which are really about trust.

[00:38:59] Is this somebody that is trustworthy

[00:39:00] that I truly can trust and other people will trust

[00:39:04] and they wanna work with?

[00:39:06] Are they competent?

[00:39:08] So do they have a base level of skills

[00:39:11] and that decking row over time

[00:39:14] and we can make them better?

[00:39:16] Do they have courage?

[00:39:17] I mean, are they willing to make tough decisions?

[00:39:19] Are they willing to speak up

[00:39:22] when they see something they don't think you're right

[00:39:25] and present their point of view?

[00:39:26] Are they willing to do things

[00:39:29] that might be for the best in the best interest

[00:39:31] of the company, but maybe not

[00:39:32] in their own personal best interest?

[00:39:34] And I think courage is really important.

[00:39:36] And I think obviously the more senior you become

[00:39:40] maybe the easier it is to be courageous

[00:39:42] but I think it's an important characteristic.

[00:39:45] And at the last thing I'd say is humanity

[00:39:48] which gets to the empathy and all that.

[00:39:50] These people that really care about other humans

[00:39:52] or do they care only about themselves

[00:39:54] and their own career path?

[00:39:55] And I think so trust, competence, courage, humanity

[00:40:00] to me are four things I try to think about

[00:40:03] when I meet people.

[00:40:05] And when you shake somebody's hand

[00:40:07] basically you're, I think the actor shaking someone's hand

[00:40:09] and meeting them, you're kind of assessing quickly

[00:40:11] trust and competence right away.

[00:40:12] Like right away.

[00:40:14] And so those are kind of the foundational things

[00:40:16] but then the courage, humanity stuff

[00:40:19] those are special things that I think set us apart

[00:40:21] at the company that I look for

[00:40:26] when I meet people from the outside.

[00:40:28] I really appreciate what you're sharing Dave.

[00:40:31] When we're coaching our clients

[00:40:34] we talk about people hire people, right?

[00:40:37] The resume might get you the interview

[00:40:39] but at the end of the day people hire people

[00:40:41] and then like, okay Bob that's cute

[00:40:43] but what's the double click on that?

[00:40:45] And I think that you're making me rethink some of this a bit

[00:40:50] some of it's just terms but we talk about proficiency

[00:40:54] which is can you do the job?

[00:40:55] We talked about competency.

[00:40:58] We talk about passion.

[00:41:00] I speak in alliteration by the way

[00:41:01] so it's proficiency and then passion

[00:41:03] like do you care about what we're doing, how we do it

[00:41:07] who we do it for you talked about the pursuit of better

[00:41:09] like does this resonate with you?

[00:41:12] And then personality is just somebody I trust

[00:41:16] is just somebody that I would want to work with

[00:41:18] but this has come up twice today.

[00:41:20] I was interviewing the CMO of another large public CPG

[00:41:23] earlier today and he called it guts.

[00:41:27] You're calling it courage

[00:41:29] but it's the ability to stand up and be counted

[00:41:33] and say, hey, I don't necessarily agree

[00:41:37] with what we're doing here's why or whatever

[00:41:39] but just to have the courage to say

[00:41:42] I think we need to think about this a little bit more

[00:41:45] maybe there's a better way.

[00:41:46] I think it's also the courage also

[00:41:48] about taking accountability when things go wrong

[00:41:50] and really owning it, owning it.

[00:41:52] And I think, I mean you look in our society today

[00:41:56] across whether it be sports, business, politics,

[00:42:01] religion, whatever almost any kind of area

[00:42:03] I think there's a lack of courage

[00:42:06] and I think you gain so much more

[00:42:10] by just accepting your failings

[00:42:12] and acknowledging that

[00:42:14] and saying the things that may not be easy to say or popular

[00:42:19] because that links to me, that's about humanity.

[00:42:23] It's also about humanity.

[00:42:25] Yes, well back on the humanity piece

[00:42:28] so we've talked about humility, we've talked about empathy

[00:42:30] and I do a separate podcast with Johnny Taylor

[00:42:36] on all things kind of HR called the work wire

[00:42:40] and his organization, SHERM

[00:42:42] is actively promoting something right now around civility.

[00:42:47] And being civil, we live in a very polarized culture

[00:42:51] like I'm not gonna say anything

[00:42:52] that people don't already know on that

[00:42:54] but between politics and war and culture

[00:42:58] and just everything that's going on

[00:43:00] we've kind of devolved the humanity part of this

[00:43:05] and that's a human being

[00:43:06] and like I don't agree with you

[00:43:08] but that doesn't mean I have to be disagreeable about it.

[00:43:13] And how do you see that

[00:43:14] and just sort of this element of civility

[00:43:17] as a component of the humanity piece?

[00:43:19] Yeah, I agree Bob, I completely agree with that

[00:43:21] and I think, I mean honestly

[00:43:23] like the downside of social media

[00:43:25] is just it's all about dehumanization, right?

[00:43:27] So it's the opposite of that

[00:43:28] because you can't hate on people

[00:43:31] or throw grievances out there

[00:43:34] unless you first sort of dehumanize them

[00:43:36] and I think it's a terrible thing

[00:43:40] and I think anything to create more civil discourse

[00:43:44] and just civil behavior is great.

[00:43:46] And that's why honestly, like I've kind of personally

[00:43:48] I've sort of defaulted to a lot of sports watching

[00:43:51] because I do think that brings more people together

[00:43:54] so if I'm in a bar or restaurant or with friends

[00:43:57] or whatever, I mean sports are fun

[00:43:59] and nobody dies generally

[00:44:02] and I think to me it's a way for people to come together

[00:44:10] but yeah, it's a very tough time

[00:44:12] and it's unfortunate because I think of people

[00:44:16] if everybody demonstrated like trust competence

[00:44:18] courage humanity, I think it's easy to say

[00:44:22] but if we could do it, it'd be in a much better place.

[00:44:26] And David that's why I'm so excited

[00:44:28] to have somebody like you come in and share this

[00:44:31] because you're the CEO of a public company

[00:44:34] you have $2 billion company

[00:44:36] and so you could say anything you wanted

[00:44:42] and yet what people are hearing is,

[00:44:44] wow this guy who's climbed the corporate ladder

[00:44:46] about as high as you can go

[00:44:48] is espousing values like this.

[00:44:51] Wow, like maybe I'm not crazy

[00:44:53] maybe my intuition of like I want to be nicer

[00:44:56] is it okay, can I succeed in my career

[00:45:00] and also be a nice person?

[00:45:02] Those aren't mutually exclusive choices

[00:45:04] in fact, it's probably the preferred choice.

[00:45:07] I think so, I mean you don't have to be a sociopath

[00:45:11] to be successful in business.

[00:45:13] Although those people-

[00:45:15] That may be the headline for this episode.

[00:45:18] But those people they do exist

[00:45:19] I think you have to everybody honestly

[00:45:21] and you have to learn how to deal with people like that

[00:45:23] and I think and sometimes I think, okay

[00:45:26] I've been lucky it's worked pretty well for me

[00:45:29] but I've had moments too where I felt

[00:45:30] honestly I felt like I was maybe not appreciated

[00:45:33] or I was betrayed in some way or shape or form

[00:45:36] because I allowed myself to

[00:45:37] I put myself in that position and made myself vulnerable

[00:45:40] but I think at the end you just gotta feel good

[00:45:42] about yourself, you gotta feel go back to your spouse

[00:45:46] your partner, your family

[00:45:47] and just be able to look at them and say like I did

[00:45:50] I've kind of lived my values

[00:45:51] and with the chips fall they fall

[00:45:54] but generally I think people are good to other people

[00:45:57] and some good things should happen back to them.

[00:46:01] So you've got four kids

[00:46:02] so I can ask this question in one of two ways

[00:46:06] if you were giving advice to 25 year old Dave Burwick

[00:46:11] with the benefit of hindsight

[00:46:13] or as you talked to your kids today

[00:46:15] what's the best career advice you would give?

[00:46:19] For me it's pretty simple

[00:46:21] it's like you go like you're gonna have a long career

[00:46:25] hopefully everybody

[00:46:26] and no matter what path you take by the way

[00:46:28] you could be like I did like through brand marketing

[00:46:30] you could be an engineer, you could be a finance

[00:46:31] you could be a social worker

[00:46:33] which my wife is an MSW it doesn't matter

[00:46:36] but you can't plan it out from beginning to end

[00:46:40] it just kind of you have one experience

[00:46:42] and then you learn from that

[00:46:43] and then you kind of guide yourself to the next thing

[00:46:45] but all along the way you're kind of building

[00:46:47] a foundation of knowledge and experiences

[00:46:48] and understanding

[00:46:50] that's gonna make you stronger as you go

[00:46:52] so my advice is really learn as much as you can

[00:46:57] in every role that you have

[00:46:59] knowing that that's gonna make you better in the next role

[00:47:03] and then at some point you can't go back

[00:47:05] and redo the things that you chose not to do

[00:47:07] or you didn't maybe put yourself into fully

[00:47:10] because you've lost that opportunity

[00:47:11] now I'll give you one example for me

[00:47:13] like as I mentioned before at Pepsi

[00:47:16] I did a field marketing role

[00:47:17] so I started in headquarters

[00:47:19] I did like two years of dipepsi

[00:47:22] and some other things

[00:47:23] and then did my kind of obligatory

[00:47:25] okay you go into the field

[00:47:25] you go into Tampa

[00:47:26] and you're gonna be the field marketing person

[00:47:28] and so at this point I'm like

[00:47:31] and I'm 31 or two a couple years out of business school

[00:47:35] and one of my responsibilities was going to find

[00:47:38] the point of sale that was delivered

[00:47:40] to our big yard out there by all the trucks

[00:47:44] the route sales trucks

[00:47:45] and where the route sales guys hang out

[00:47:46] and to claim it before the rain does

[00:47:48] and make sure it gets into the route sales room

[00:47:52] and then eventually gets on the trucks

[00:47:53] so the route salesman can they have it available

[00:47:55] so when you build the display

[00:47:56] you have your Pepsi point of sale

[00:47:58] you put it up to put the price on it

[00:48:00] and you're prepared

[00:48:01] and I remember looking through the yard

[00:48:03] trying to find this like there's like a

[00:48:06] I don't know it was like a pallet of point of sale

[00:48:08] not being able to find it thinking

[00:48:09] okay all my friends in business school

[00:48:11] they're like Morgan Stanley

[00:48:12] and Kenzie and they're flying first class

[00:48:18] and they have this glamorous kind of high profile life

[00:48:21] and here I am looking for the point of sale

[00:48:23] but and it was not very a lot of fun

[00:48:26] having said that it was two years of my life

[00:48:28] even the last two years

[00:48:29] but I learned so much about how our business operated

[00:48:32] like what do like for example

[00:48:34] what when a route sales rep

[00:48:36] the guy drives a Pepsi truck

[00:48:37] who goes in and builds displays

[00:48:38] what do they need to be successful in their job

[00:48:41] how do you motivate them

[00:48:42] so when I went back up to New York

[00:48:44] back to headquarters two years later

[00:48:46] and I was running I think the time slice

[00:48:48] and mug root beer

[00:48:49] like I had a better understanding of what

[00:48:52] how to get them excited about my brands

[00:48:54] what they were looking for

[00:48:56] so it made me better

[00:48:57] it made me a better marketer

[00:48:58] and ultimately I think

[00:49:00] I don't think I would have become

[00:49:01] the chief marketing officer if I hadn't done it

[00:49:03] because part of that too was

[00:49:05] the sales organization again

[00:49:07] a Pepsi like a Boston beer very strong

[00:49:09] and very influential

[00:49:10] and I worked very closely with the sales team

[00:49:12] when I was in Florida

[00:49:14] and I built credibility

[00:49:15] and I built trust with them

[00:49:17] and so when I was looking up to get elevated

[00:49:19] and marketing as times went on

[00:49:21] I had the sales team always like

[00:49:23] yeah we like we like Dave

[00:49:25] I think that's a good move to put Dave in that role

[00:49:27] because they knew I went into the trenches with them

[00:49:30] and so I think back to the

[00:49:32] I guess the main point which is

[00:49:33] whatever you don't control

[00:49:35] and that's what your experience is going to be

[00:49:37] but whatever you do

[00:49:39] make the most of it

[00:49:40] because even at that moment

[00:49:41] if it feels kind of

[00:49:43] not essential or meaningless

[00:49:44] or not interesting or not fun

[00:49:47] you will benefit down the road

[00:49:49] and you can never recapture those moments

[00:49:51] you have that chance

[00:49:52] to get the learning

[00:49:53] and then you're going to move on

[00:49:54] and make sure you make sure

[00:49:56] you optimize that experience

[00:49:58] No, well I think that's brilliant

[00:50:00] and your one it's

[00:50:02] benefit finding which I think is actually

[00:50:04] a tremendous tool for resilience

[00:50:07] which she mentioned at the very beginning

[00:50:09] which is when we can

[00:50:11] even when I'm trying to find

[00:50:13] the point of sale stuff in a yard

[00:50:16] and it's going to rain

[00:50:17] and everything else that's getting ready to happen

[00:50:19] when we can find the good in it

[00:50:22] and like as you say kind of developing

[00:50:24] a real understanding

[00:50:26] if you're also building relationships

[00:50:27] you are building trust

[00:50:29] with people that you're going to need on another day

[00:50:31] you are building an understanding

[00:50:33] of the consumer

[00:50:34] in this case

[00:50:35] that people are actually delivering the product

[00:50:38] and the promotions at retail

[00:50:41] you're back in New York

[00:50:43] going that ain't gonna work

[00:50:44] like if you're in a planning session

[00:50:45] like I said it's not going to work

[00:50:47] you don't understand how these routes work

[00:50:49] or what the store manager's gonna let them do

[00:50:52] or whatever reality is

[00:50:55] I really appreciate what you're saying

[00:50:56] the other thing for young people

[00:50:59] is sometimes it's just a test for negatives

[00:51:02] you don't know what you don't know

[00:51:04] so go try stuff

[00:51:05] just go try stuff

[00:51:07] get some experiences under your belt

[00:51:10] because you can't map it all out

[00:51:12] and you don't know how it's all gonna play out

[00:51:15] but embracing where you are

[00:51:18] and being all there

[00:51:20] it's such great advice for people

[00:51:22] because I think sometimes folks

[00:51:24] don't understand in the moment

[00:51:26] I really am learning something

[00:51:27] this really is shaping me for the future

[00:51:31] yep, that's great

[00:51:33] brilliant

[00:51:33] well Dave this has been phenomenal

[00:51:36] thank you so much

[00:51:37] I wish you the best in whatever is next for you

[00:51:41] I hope you had the opportunity to just breathe

[00:51:45] be with your family

[00:51:45] maybe go hit a couple little white balls

[00:51:47] around Pretty Park

[00:51:49] some

[00:51:50] maybe even Scotland who knows

[00:51:52] but this has been phenomenal

[00:51:54] I appreciate what you shared

[00:51:56] and I'm taking a lot away from this conversation

[00:51:58] as I know our audience is

[00:52:00] great Bob thanks for your thoughts

[00:52:01] I really appreciate the opportunity just to talk

[00:52:03] and I think it's a nice sort of exclamation point

[00:52:06] to my last day of work here

[00:52:08] so thanks for allowing me to share some thoughts

[00:52:11] so everyone who's listening and watching

[00:52:13] thank you so much

[00:52:14] I appreciate you investing a few minutes to your time

[00:52:16] obviously you got high ROI for your time today

[00:52:19] so thank you for that

[00:52:20] and with that we wish you well

[00:52:21] and Dave thanks again