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[00:00:00] Alright, hi everyone. This is Dylan Taggart for the latest episode of 3Sixty Insights HRTechChat.
[00:00:06] Today I am joined with Jeffrey Roche. He's the son of a nurse, a healthcare expert,
[00:00:13] a diversity advocate, and a champion for transforming health equity. He's currently
[00:00:18] serving as the director of workforce development at Siemens Healthinears.
[00:00:22] He has an amazing professional career with over 16 years of hospital
[00:00:27] higher education leadership and he was nominated to the Forbes Business Council for his work.
[00:00:34] So Jeffrey, thank you for joining us today. So good to be here Dylan, thank you.
[00:00:39] And I know you have a lot of experience in leadership and workforce transformation,
[00:00:44] especially in the healthcare space but do you mind telling people a little bit about yourself
[00:00:47] before we dive into that? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah so obviously started my career in hospital
[00:00:53] administration, spent over a decade at a regional healthcare system in Pennsylvania.
[00:00:58] Really during that time had the privilege to serve and be mentored by our nurse CEO and our CEO
[00:01:06] obviously was a great not just leader but also somebody that put me on a phenomenal path to
[00:01:13] grow learn and further really evolve as a leader and so I had the great fortune of leading
[00:01:19] numerous departments there and being very involved in all aspects of strategy. Also very
[00:01:24] involved in culture within the organization partnered with HR during my time there to launch
[00:01:29] a whole new employee engagement initiative and a whole new mission vision values as an organization
[00:01:34] and then actually moved into higher education leadership on two different institutions on the
[00:01:38] cabinet serving with the president to do similar work in higher education and now
[00:01:44] obviously serve at Siemens and a leadership role all focused on workforce development
[00:01:48] which is very much focused on how do we build the next generation healthcare workforce and do it in
[00:01:52] a more sustainable factor. Well speaking of leadership I feel like you can speak to this
[00:02:00] quite well what are the things that stick out to your minds as like the primary trends
[00:02:07] throughout your tenure as being a leader or kind of studying leadership essentially
[00:02:13] and what do you feel like are kind of the have become the pillars of your leadership strategy.
[00:02:19] Yeah you know it's really interesting right I mean when you study leadership and you really take a
[00:02:25] look at where we are today there's so much there in between and so obviously you know personally
[00:02:32] and professionally I'm actually in a doctorate program right now in leadership really and I'll
[00:02:38] tell you exactly why I firmly believe that we have really missed the mark when it comes to
[00:02:45] organizational leadership in my experience in healthcare higher education and certainly
[00:02:53] as well now on the corporate side we really are missing the mark when it comes to truly caring
[00:02:58] for our people ultimately leadership is a responsibility but leadership like other
[00:03:05] aspects of organizational culture have to continue to be continuously learning continuously
[00:03:12] growing and I'm concerned that when we look at the trends of retention and look at the trends
[00:03:19] of the great resignation most of the data when you really study it study after study reports
[00:03:27] and points to the fact that people are leaving organizations because of their managers because
[00:03:32] of their leaders they're not leaving because of a disconnect to mission vision values they're leading
[00:03:38] because they work or leaving excuse me because they work for a leader that doesn't care for them
[00:03:44] doesn't respect them doesn't demonstrate compassion empathy doesn't give them an
[00:03:50] opportunity for career and economic mobility and so when people ask me what do you think
[00:03:56] is the prescription for it it's really simple we need to go back to the basics of why we lead and
[00:04:02] it's to help and care for our flock and our flock are our people they're our team and so I specifically
[00:04:10] on LinkedIn and the work I do believe very strongly that we need to lead with our heart
[00:04:15] one of the reasons I use the hashtag on LinkedIn heart leader is that I do believe
[00:04:19] when we lead with our heart not only can we meaningfully and authentically connect
[00:04:24] with another person but that when we lead and lead them we are working to bring them along
[00:04:32] with us on that journey and that journey may mean we have to hold them accountable but we do it with
[00:04:37] love we do it with a heart and so I firmly believe we have to get more leaders that care for people
[00:04:43] genuinely and want to help them be not only the best that they can be but ultimately help
[00:04:48] them be successful in the organization and impactful in the work that they do yeah I think
[00:04:58] the part about why people leave their job being about their about poor leadership is
[00:05:04] very very much hitting the nail on the head I do feel like there's a bit of a I think part of
[00:05:08] that great resignation and correct me if I'm wrong was partly because I feel like people
[00:05:12] really realize that like this their leaders direct leaders didn't care about them but maybe the
[00:05:17] larger organization doesn't really care about them at all and I think I guess that can be fine if
[00:05:24] you know a job your work is just a job to you but and but some people want more than that and I think
[00:05:30] I heard a talk recently about how you know as religion and other things we do outside of
[00:05:35] work have become a smaller part of like the American life and or western lifestyle
[00:05:41] people are looking to work for that culture that like community and how do you feel like
[00:05:49] you can couple these two things be a good leader but while having a sense of community while fighting
[00:05:54] that kind of feeling that we're all let people have that maybe that they're disposable in their
[00:05:59] role and how do you change that culture yeah well I think if we have to first
[00:06:06] acknowledge the fact that today we have more challenges particularly with a mental health
[00:06:13] crisis in the workplace than we ever have before too right and I call it for leaders
[00:06:18] we have a make it or break it moment every day every interaction every conversation we're in
[00:06:23] whether virtual hybrid in person remote email phone call meeting conference call it's a
[00:06:32] make it or break it moment we either have the opportunity to make it for our colleagues or
[00:06:37] break it for our colleagues that's the real reality of where we sit today and we see it every
[00:06:41] day unfortunately we're seeing it more and more particularly in healthcare which is the space
[00:06:46] I've spent the majority of my career we're seeing it at record amounts of burnout but ultimately
[00:06:53] burnout that's leading to causes of death and so I hate to be morbid but we have to be
[00:06:58] honest about what's truly occurring within our society today and so I think to your point
[00:07:04] what really is the prescription right it does come down to building community regardless of
[00:07:11] the fact that you know people have to your point things that they do in and outside the
[00:07:15] workplace if you serve in an organization where a community has been built where you feel
[00:07:21] psychologically safe where you feel valued appreciated heard and seen nine times out of
[00:07:30] ten the data suggests you're not leaving because you're going to have a manager in that same
[00:07:36] environment who's going to see you hear you value you appreciate you I look at it in my own career
[00:07:43] the first organization I served in I talked early on about my CEO it was not a perfect
[00:07:50] organization no organization is perfect but it was a place where you felt like you belonged
[00:07:58] it was a place that cared for you as an employee and it was a place that allowed me and so many
[00:08:05] others to flourish and grow but what was at the DNA of that was people people you know we
[00:08:11] had a leadership team that truly valued people I will tell you though and I don't say this to
[00:08:19] be you know rude but across my across my full experience areas that I have seen need to do
[00:08:26] more to care for people generally are in the human resource area to be honest even in many
[00:08:32] of my experiences it's really been human resources that has not necessarily gone the extra mile
[00:08:38] for people and I think today in many ways maybe before we took that for granted you
[00:08:44] know we had great benefits or we had great you know different elements that kept somebody
[00:08:49] today it's different we've got five different generations in the workplace every generation
[00:08:55] has a different aspect that's important to them it's not important for us to sit there and
[00:09:01] dissect what's different what's important is for us to dissect how we build community with them
[00:09:07] and it's important for us to think about how we bring them all together
[00:09:11] and foster community and I think too many organizations have people today that are
[00:09:16] going to sit there and critique well this generation doesn't like this and this one wants to do this
[00:09:21] it doesn't matter you're either going to be with you or they're not going to be with you
[00:09:25] and when they're not with you you're going to be hurting from a retention standpoint and so
[00:09:29] we really have to foster building community yeah and I feel like there's always been multiple
[00:09:37] generations in the workforce and some of them have been quite different especially you know if
[00:09:41] you look at the post-world war two generation clashing with like the late baby boomer generation
[00:09:51] you know like those people working together you know in a factory or whatever you're going to have
[00:09:55] very different opinions but I do feel like what do you feel like are often you know if you
[00:10:01] look at the two oldest generations in the workforce you know Gen Z and and let's say boomers I guess
[00:10:07] it would be where they where are they missing the mark and where do they overlap like and
[00:10:14] how can they interact better I guess because some of those are going to be in leadership
[00:10:17] positions and some of those are going to be an entry-level positions so how does that all work
[00:10:23] yeah so I think you know if you look at healthcare specifically again it's the industry that I know
[00:10:30] the most you know we've got five different generations and generally we've got two of the
[00:10:37] more seasoned generations still in leadership and you know at a national level when I go to
[00:10:45] national meetings and national convenings these topics come up and what I'm generally hearing
[00:10:52] a lot of so-called leaders talk about is oh these younger generations they're not going to stay
[00:10:57] so why should we be focused on this they want to get new jobs you know they're impatient they don't
[00:11:01] want to you know they don't want to show up to work they're not you know look here's the reality
[00:11:07] and I tell us to people all the time if that's how you come to the party you might as well not
[00:11:13] show up because the reality of it is is we're not going to change the generations but what we
[00:11:21] can change is how we think about them and we can break bread with them and so what I think
[00:11:25] is critical is that you know if you look at some work that organizations have done in this space
[00:11:30] organizations that have thought about this from a people first perspective have realized
[00:11:35] great mentorship programs create ways to engage them in a way that gives back and at the same time
[00:11:43] is worthwhile for both you know I look at my organization early on in my hospital system
[00:11:49] the best leaders I had were actually people that were a baby movers or you know even before that
[00:11:56] other generations and I've led as a leader I've led multiple generations and some of those experiences
[00:12:03] didn't always start off exactly right I'll give you an example I had a colleague once that I
[00:12:08] was reporting to me he had been reorg several times in his tenure and his last reorg was to me
[00:12:17] in the first conversation we had this was a gentleman well into his upper 50s
[00:12:23] I at the time was in my 20s the first conversation we had was what are you going to tell what are
[00:12:28] you going to teach me young man I've been through this way before you and I remember sitting there
[00:12:35] and channeling in my mind because I had been mentored by somebody who wasn't too far off of
[00:12:41] his age our CEO and I remember thinking to myself I've got two roads to choose here either I'm going
[00:12:47] to choose the command and control road which is a leadership thing that oftentimes other generations
[00:12:51] have chosen where we bark and declare our orders and expect people to follow or I'm going to choose
[00:12:57] that transformational model which is to say to him give me an opportunity you haven't even seen
[00:13:05] what we could accomplish together and I chose that path and that path became absolutely transformational
[00:13:12] not just for him for our organization and also for me because I learned a lot from him we learned
[00:13:20] a lot together and ultimately he built a phenomenal program that had impact that when I look back
[00:13:27] in his own words wouldn't have happened if I wasn't his leader but it was a joint effort
[00:13:32] wasn't me wasn't him it was us and so I think we have to really channel that element of us this is
[00:13:38] we this is community and I think when we do that we have so much more we can accomplish together
[00:13:47] yeah that makes a ton of sense I think the mentorship part is important just because it
[00:13:52] creates a common ground and you know there's obviously some knowledge you don't want to lose
[00:13:57] that knowledge as someone who's worked a job for 20 30 years has because why not just kick start
[00:14:03] the career of someone but you know younger than you if you can
[00:14:09] in terms of you know I mean in our previous talk you said younger generations want organizations
[00:14:16] to invest in them do you think this could be one of those bridges like you know if the
[00:14:21] investment does come from their their peers and through mentorship or do you do you think
[00:14:26] that means more of a like a overarching organizational thing like better benefits and
[00:14:34] stuff like that no I think it's everything in all of the above right because I mean the reality of
[00:14:39] it is yes we've seen data in various reports including a report that gill put out in the
[00:14:45] healthcare space not too long ago that you know generally and it's not just the younger
[00:14:51] generations it's it's across the board people want to be invested in in fact the McKinsey
[00:14:55] report that just came out I think it's an eye opener should be you know that specifically
[00:15:01] surveyed you know fortune 500 companies and indicated that organizations that don't invest
[00:15:07] in learning and development have a 22 reduction in productivity and ultimately in that amount of
[00:15:14] lost productivity it's over 116 million dollars to an organization that's an eye opener
[00:15:21] learning and development should be a top priority in every organization regardless of size
[00:15:26] learning and development should be viewed as a strategic transformation opportunity
[00:15:30] for every single employee if we truly develop a personal development plan for every employee
[00:15:37] regardless of title regardless of role we will not only retain them we will grow them
[00:15:43] and when we grow them they support our patients they support our customers
[00:15:48] and ultimately we create a harmonious community that is going to have some of the best culture
[00:15:52] that you could expect and so I think it's um it's formal education but it's also those aspects of
[00:15:59] of skills-based learning mentorship empowering teamwork sessions workshops you know you name it
[00:16:07] but what it has to be and this is what the McKinsey study uh suggested and I agree with it
[00:16:13] is it has to be personal and it has to be adaptive meaning it can't just be this this cookie cutter
[00:16:18] approach it has to be tailored to meet a specific need and it needs to also be reflective of the
[00:16:25] needs of that individual that's how we achieve career mobility and certainly economic mobility
[00:16:31] and I think when you do that when you are a leader and you provide that opportunity to your
[00:16:37] employees imagine the impact that they face and they feel they see you truly caring for them
[00:16:46] I look at it in my days when I was a director in my healthcare system in order for me to maintain
[00:16:55] my directorship I had to earn a master's degree that was the that was what it was
[00:17:01] there was a point in time where I started and I was like I can't do this I just couldn't
[00:17:06] I was getting married I just didn't think it was something I really wanted to do even though I knew
[00:17:10] I my heart I did but it was my leader my senior vice president who said to me you can do it and then
[00:17:17] he said to me you're going to leave meetings early in the work day to get to that class because
[00:17:23] I want you to do it not only because we're going to pay for it but because I know it will be
[00:17:30] transformational for you and with that support that encouragement I did it and then went on to
[00:17:36] serve many more years there and I felt committed to them because they were committed to me
[00:17:43] and I fear that in so much these days we've treated people like a number in so many organizations
[00:17:53] and I've served in organizations that treat treat and have treated me like a number
[00:17:58] and it's not a healthy environment we've got to get back to caring for one another helping one
[00:18:05] another on that journey in life and being there to help them achieve what they fear or feel maybe
[00:18:14] the impossible but helping them make it the possible yeah that's very well but I do feel like kind of
[00:18:23] the number thing the feeling of being a number is something I hear a lot from people of you know
[00:18:31] people not in these interviews but just talking to my friends and you know it's obviously anecdotal
[00:18:35] but I felt it too it's uh it's a it's almost it's a switching maybe the generation of millennials
[00:18:44] is not going to be convinced but maybe younger generations will be but but I do think it's
[00:18:49] going to require a major reframing you know to make it feel like you know the game isn't really
[00:18:58] rigged against you in a sense where you're not just you're more than just the number
[00:19:02] but and I think it is through you know definitely through the programs you mentioned
[00:19:05] but for someone who is maybe looking to implement something like this
[00:19:11] and there and there maybe want to encourage their boss or their leadership to initiate like this kind
[00:19:20] of learning program and development program that you think you know you've been saying is vital
[00:19:25] which and people really want how would you how would you propose it to someone like how
[00:19:31] much time out of the week should they be taking obviously this is going to be on average and
[00:19:36] how do you justify the cost to someone who maybe isn't convinced
[00:19:42] look I mean to your point right the CFOs of the world are always going to pay attention
[00:19:45] to the cost the question is is what cost is too much to invest in our people
[00:19:53] ultimately every organization is going to budget you know generally some aspect of
[00:20:01] resources for learning and development the challenge we've historically had is we budget
[00:20:06] far too low in those respective areas in every industry significantly too low
[00:20:13] in healthcare I would argue in many cases it's less than a 1% of the entire budget
[00:20:21] is being allocated to learning and development you know then we wonder why we have culture
[00:20:29] challenges then we wonder why we have retention challenges and the data today suggests that it's
[00:20:35] more than just pay certainly its benefits its experience it's how they feel it's are they
[00:20:40] being invested in I'm also not here to suggest that just investing in learning and development
[00:20:47] is going to fix retention that's not what I'm suggesting what I'm suggesting and what I believe
[00:20:53] very strongly is that if we build cultures of learning and development in organizations in every
[00:21:01] industry we will fix retention in culture because we will build a learning organization
[00:21:09] an organization where at all levels of the organization we are always learning we are
[00:21:16] always growing we've seen evidence of this actually we've seen some large organizations
[00:21:22] that truly invest CVS health is one actually that has been regarded many many times as being an
[00:21:28] organization Aetna for many many years under Mark Bertolini a true authentic leader who was very
[00:21:34] well regarded for his leadership specifically investing in people you know those types of things
[00:21:41] we've seen other examples Microsoft over the years has been you know Harold and some of the
[00:21:46] earlier days particularly for some of these things we've got to really realize that it's
[00:21:52] it's a much bigger opportunity but it is truly transformational and so I can't say to you what
[00:21:59] should that number exactly be but what I will say is it has to be equitable it has to be applicable
[00:22:05] to all meaning can't just focus on leaders because that's what a lot of organizations do
[00:22:11] directors managers and up get it the rest of the team doesn't nope that doesn't work it's got to be
[00:22:17] everybody everyone has to have a chance because you know what you don't know if that housekeeper
[00:22:23] that food service worker that environmental services aid could be the future CEO and I would hope
[00:22:29] that as leaders we want to make that possible I look at my former senior vice president
[00:22:35] he was in healthcare for 40 years before he retired a couple years ago and I had the privilege of
[00:22:41] working with him for about 10 he started in food services made his way all the way up to this
[00:22:48] to one of highest ranked positions at our healthcare system but he was the most humble leader
[00:22:54] you would have ever experienced he never forgot where he came from and he also never forgot the
[00:22:59] power of education learning and development and he stood for that and was committed to that for
[00:23:05] everyone that reported to him and it was no wonder why his area as a responsibility had the highest
[00:23:12] employee engagement every year year after year and I'll never forget HR once saying this I just
[00:23:20] don't get it you guys always have it and I said to them maybe you should just pay attention
[00:23:26] to the people and focus on the people and you'll see exactly why we have it and so it's those types
[00:23:32] of things that just make a huge difference yeah and in that way you put it of building a learning
[00:23:39] organization I feel like in healthcare that's very translatable just because so many hospitals
[00:23:47] and institutions are also like learning institutions simultaneously and I think people
[00:23:52] really do gravitate towards that because it feels like there's something happening yeah I think a lot
[00:23:58] of people want change and want to not be stagnant so how do you how do you build something like
[00:24:10] that that's inclusive that is maintainable that is not maybe moving is what you know is does it
[00:24:17] have this there's have to be some sort of regulation of the pace of which it's moving
[00:24:21] so you're not you know you're including as many people as possible in this kind of I don't want to
[00:24:26] say high speed learning process but like in this for this organization that always has a forward
[00:24:32] momentum and how do you maintain that without you know maybe ostracizing certain populations
[00:24:41] of your of your work workers yeah well I mean what you have to do is you have to align a role
[00:24:48] to kind of a career architecture stackability that both has a skill perspective to it and a
[00:24:55] growth perspective so the investment to really make sure the architecture is there is really
[00:25:02] really important creating career mobility pathways you know in healthcare that has not
[00:25:08] historically been very well done we generally have shoots and ladders we don't actually
[00:25:13] have actual pathways but we see many organizations today really thinking about this and doing
[00:25:19] incredible work to build pathways so if you come in as in this role how do you stack to this role
[00:25:25] what does it take to get to that role what does it take to get to this role that's super important
[00:25:29] and it has to be very clear because for you as the employee you want to see that you have a
[00:25:33] forward opportunity not everybody some people are comfortable you know doing whatever work
[00:25:38] that they do and not necessarily having that forward mobility but we know the younger
[00:25:41] generations absolutely positively want to know and you know what we owe it to the entire community
[00:25:49] for everybody at least no and so you've got to have that and it takes time to your point does
[00:25:54] take investment but what we know is that I'll give you the IT sector certainly I haven't worked in
[00:25:59] IT but but those that I know very well that have worked in IT have told me it's just a very
[00:26:03] incredibly well understood mobility pathway different certifications get you this
[00:26:09] this certification gets you this it's clear they're tracks we need that in every aspect of our industry
[00:26:16] and we need to every area of our society because it does create a clear pathway and
[00:26:22] those that are visual learners can understand how you get there as well so you got to invest in
[00:26:26] that and then from a leadership standpoint you know when we meet with our teams we've
[00:26:31] got to have honest conversations together about what that means you know in my former
[00:26:36] healthcare system you know I mean I'm not that old I'm a millennial but we were doing that kind of
[00:26:41] stuff because I had a personal development plan and every six months my PDP was reviewed with my
[00:26:49] senior vice president and at every six month mark we looked at what else would I do to grow
[00:26:54] what else should I do to grow what could I be working on what would allow me to get this
[00:26:59] first of this and I'll tell you in my entire decade there there were so many parts of that
[00:27:05] PEP that I saw realized when I was promoted when I was asked to take on new departments
[00:27:12] when I was asked to have additional FTEs so many things that were intentional aspects of the PDP
[00:27:19] were were so much like a career mobility pathway and so we can do it we just have to be intentional
[00:27:25] and I feel like part of that you know concept of being intentional needs to I feel like
[00:27:34] does I feel like there does need to be a bit of a sandbox around it because if you do look at
[00:27:38] healthcare and obviously this is just someone looking at it from the outside and other industries
[00:27:42] that are equally as competitive how do you kind of create that environment of constant learning
[00:27:48] constant growth without creating an overly competitive environment where then you're pushing people too
[00:27:55] far maybe and then maybe a culture of burnout becomes the norm because it's just you know one
[00:28:01] person's going to push it and after a while you're into a situation where it's an unsustainable
[00:28:08] maybe one person set the bar too high and then you're just in this unsustainable period of growth
[00:28:13] and then you have like people working you know 20 hour shifts and that's seen as like a right of
[00:28:18] passage or something even though I wasn't isn't this the case in healthcare maybe I got the story
[00:28:22] wrong that the guy who did that thing where he's like the the reason doctors go through that 24
[00:28:28] hour shift or whatever was from this old practice but the guy who did it was on cocaine or
[00:28:33] something all the time is that true like during their residency training like the doctor who
[00:28:39] did it that maybe maybe it's just a folklore I've heard from people but I have I can't speak to
[00:28:43] that a specific story I mean look I think um you know I'm the first to say that from a healthcare
[00:28:50] perspective the current system there's no shock to me that we have burnout the way we do because
[00:28:58] we've set up inefficient ways of caring for patients you know we have technology that hasn't
[00:29:05] actually been validated by our clinicians that are actually using it to deliver care and yet they're
[00:29:11] expected to and then they've got how many different patients to take care of and I'm speaking about
[00:29:15] our electronic medical records and other aspects like that I think you know to your point
[00:29:22] when you set up a learning culture you certainly have to be very sensitive and aware to the
[00:29:27] fact that it's not to set up a competitive culture yes you're going to have people that
[00:29:33] are competitive in nature but I just can't say that I have seen that in my experience when I've
[00:29:40] served in learning organizations that I've seen the competitiveness necessarily and when you do
[00:29:45] there's still there's what I consider to be appropriate guardrails to rein that in because
[00:29:51] ultimately it's not the goal of a learning organization the goal of a learning organization
[00:29:55] which is why it's really important healthcare is is for everyone to continuously learning and
[00:30:02] growing so that we deliver the best care to our patients and also take care of ourselves in that
[00:30:08] process quality patient safety excellence all those types of things and I think you know what
[00:30:15] you're speaking to is look we have a lot of work to do on the medical side of this without question
[00:30:21] we have a lot of systems that are just not going to help us to address issues like burnout
[00:30:25] and culture today but we there's some great work occurring and I'm confident that as time
[00:30:30] goes on you know we're starting to see a stronger recognition you know I look at uh
[00:30:36] I don't know if you you know if you heard of this book I I super excited I haven't read it yet but
[00:30:40] but just one heart for example just came out this is written by uh you know a phenomenal
[00:30:46] physician friend uh Dr. Jonathan Fisher uh Dr. Fisher is a leading voice on issues of wellness
[00:30:53] burnout and mindfulness in healthcare and uh Dr. Fisher has been leading efforts at his
[00:31:00] healthcare system Novan health to address some of these issues and so I think what I'm encouraged is
[00:31:06] when we see people in the in the trenches telling us and learning about those challenges that are
[00:31:11] going to put forward their ideas to fix it I'm confident that we're going to see a much depth
[00:31:16] you know much different process uh in the future what we have to realize is that ultimately
[00:31:22] these issues of burnout these issues of culture affect every aspect of who we are our mind
[00:31:28] our body and our spirit and so we've got to address them and so I'm encouraged by you know
[00:31:33] people like Dr. Fisher that are doing incredible work yeah I think also it's a it's a net positive
[00:31:39] for everyone everyone feels like they're not wondering you know how long has this person
[00:31:43] been working that's been is about to cut me open or do whatever um if you so maybe in this maybe
[00:31:51] this is you can say take this from a real life experience but let's say and this will be
[00:31:57] my final question before we wrap up but let's say someone was like okay Jeffrey I'm open it
[00:32:02] I'm opening up my hospital you're going to be in charge of all this and I want to make sure we
[00:32:09] prevent burnout prevent people from leaving the organization because of their boss and kind
[00:32:14] of using all the tenants you've been speaking about on day one or week one what are the first
[00:32:21] things you're doing to set that up before you start hiring anyone like what are your primary
[00:32:28] how what's the framework you're putting in place in this new organization you're saying before
[00:32:34] there's people hired or let's say whatever whatever whatever makes the most sense for
[00:32:38] this example because you know the industry better than I do so yeah I mean look I think that
[00:32:43] the most important thing that I would do is I would intentionally actively listen
[00:32:48] to everyone on the front lines I think that's where in healthcare not unlike other industries
[00:32:53] we've really faltered in so much of this we need to listen to them we need to hear them
[00:32:59] what are the challenges the concerns the aspects of the workplace that don't allow them to be
[00:33:05] as successful as they need to be what are the aspects of the workplace that hinder them
[00:33:10] from a mind body spirit perspective that's contributing to burnout
[00:33:14] is it technology is it people is it workflows we need to listen to them and that's what I would
[00:33:21] do I would focus on really actively and intentionally spending time with them I think leaders you know
[00:33:27] we've heard and talked about walking around leadership and different models but we've got
[00:33:32] to be we've got to be with our people and we've got to actually listen to them and then act
[00:33:36] on it I think far too often we're making decisions on profits we're making decisions on
[00:33:43] things that are not necessarily of utmost interest yes organizations need to be sustainable I absolutely
[00:33:51] get it but you can't be sustainable if your people aren't sustainable and so that's really how I would
[00:33:58] lead differently and the final thing I would just say is one of the things I regularly talk about
[00:34:02] in healthcare is you know we've got to get our boards our trustees and our shareholders for
[00:34:08] those that are on the poor profit side to understand that people are also a part of that fiduciary
[00:34:14] responsibility while a board is responsible for the future making sure the organization is sustainable
[00:34:21] on a financial healthcare quality for example a super important growth so are people because you
[00:34:30] can't achieve any of those other aspects of fiduciary responsibility without people and so
[00:34:36] people have to be at the center of every decision both are those that we serve and those that we serve
[00:34:42] with to serve those that we serve that's what I would do differently. Interesting sorry I know
[00:34:49] I said that was the last question but you brought up something that I'm curious to know the answer
[00:34:53] of when you do bring these concepts to people on the for-profit side like the board of directors
[00:35:01] the shareholders etc are they very receptive to this do they see that there's this cultural change
[00:35:09] happening and it's like in their best interest longevity wise to do it or are they really only
[00:35:14] just seeing the short-term margins here? I think it all depends I'll say that I think in healthcare
[00:35:23] generally you know and it's probably not uncommon even in a lot of other boards you know
[00:35:28] keep in mind a lot of the boards kind of form themselves right and they just add other people
[00:35:33] onto the boards that they feel would be good to serve there and so in healthcare for example
[00:35:39] less than I think it's either two or three percent of all healthcare system boards have a nurse on
[00:35:45] there. There's always a doctor on there but never or rarely a nurse and yet nurses are the
[00:35:56] largest workforce in every healthcare system and so you know boards have a lot of work to do
[00:36:03] to truly make sure they're hearing the voices of those most impacted by their decisions
[00:36:08] and I think we need to do that and the other piece I would just add is we've got to diversify
[00:36:13] boards too. Boards need to reflect the stakeholders they serve and the stakeholders they serve are
[00:36:20] also employees and so they need to reflect the voices of that and so diversity equity inclusion
[00:36:26] and belonging just as it's important in our organization and yes you heard me say that
[00:36:32] so for those organizations that are not investing in that right now because they're afraid of the
[00:36:36] politics of it they're hurting the people but the boards also have to prioritize diversity
[00:36:42] equity inclusion and belonging too because the more diverse the board the better chance will
[00:36:47] actually have voices heard and so we've got to have that occur too and so I think Dylan it's you
[00:36:53] know there are some that are doing incredibly well we stole a lot of work to do particularly in
[00:36:58] healthcare when it comes to boards and it's super important that we continue to do it.
[00:37:03] Yeah very well said I do I do feel like that is the last bastion of all this change I feel
[00:37:10] like everyone below it is like let's go we're ready to change like we all are feeling this but
[00:37:16] it's this small but I guess it's you know a bigger issue in society but it's a small little line of
[00:37:22] people kind of that are still resistant to it but it's good to hear that there is some change coming
[00:37:27] absolutely listen Jeffrey thank you so much it's been a fascinating talk and
[00:37:32] why don't you tell people a bit about what's going on for you in the future and where they
[00:37:36] can be in touch if they're able to reach out to you. Yeah no absolutely happy to connect
[00:37:41] with anybody you know great place to follow me and connect with me on LinkedIn you'll see obviously
[00:37:47] different places that I'm speaking and engaging there just you know just check me out Jeffrey
[00:37:51] Amaroch on LinkedIn happy to connect. Awesome well thank you so much and thank you everyone
[00:37:58] for tuning in and I'll see you next time.
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