How Hiring Performance Drives Business Results

[00:00:00] If you're going to automate a broken process, you're just going to reach the wrong answer faster, right? The way we think about AI is it's really awesome to inform and recommend, but people need to own the call. Don't conduct your analysis in isolation because data is so incredibly powerful. Not defending just the tribe, but defending the organization. Those creative people that you really want to keep empowered, keep excited, keep motivated, keep thinking.

[00:00:28] Good experience, paid dividends down the line. Here you try to tend to break down on proximity. Welcome to We're Only Human, a podcast about human resources, business, technology, and the workplace. My name is Vin Eubanks, your host, and I'm so glad you're here. All right. Hey, everybody. This is Vin Eubanks, host of We're Only Human. I'm so glad to be here with you. Looking forward to a conversation today with Mark Thompson.

[00:00:57] He is the CEO of iSIMS, pretty new in the role, and we're going to have a fun conversation about some of his vision for hiring, for the market, for what's new and what's different. Some of the future, probably. Hopefully, future state over there at iSIMS, some of the good stuff they're cooking up. So, Mark, welcome. I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for having me, Ben. Really looking forward to today's discussion. Me too, as well. So, before we get into some of the good stuff we're going to talk about today that I was teasing for the audience, would you take a minute and tell us more about who you are and what you do, please? Yeah, I would love to.

[00:01:26] So, I joined iSIMS about two years ago as CFO, stepped into the CEO role earlier this year. And for anyone who doesn't know iSIMS, and I hope that's nobody, but iSIMS is an intelligent enterprise hiring platform. We power hiring for some of the world's best brands, General Mills, Wendy's, Cheesecake Factory, et cetera. Prior to iSIMS, I was a CFO of a publicly traded software business.

[00:01:52] But importantly, I spent about 25 years in investment banking and capital markets. So, why is that important? Because I mostly covered enterprise software, specifically the HCM category. And it gave me a front row seat for 25 years watching the time SAS reshape HCM from transactional tools to enterprise-grade strategic solutions. And got to see the industry grow up, if you will, at least the TA tech industry.

[00:02:18] And also, importantly, prior to joining iSIMS, I had been following the company for years, actually, because of that. I strongly believe talent is one of the most important, if not the most important investments any business can make. And, of course, hiring is where it begins. And I'd say just one other sort of interesting tidbit, which is strange but interesting, I guess. On a personal level, I actually grew up very close to our headquarters in Bellworks, in Homedow, New Jersey.

[00:02:46] My father actually worked at Bell Labs for a long time. So, the last time I was in that building before I joined as CEO, it was like 1985. So, it's a little different than it does today. But it's one of those rare, like, full circle elements that just kind of slap you in the face. Makes me feel old in a way, but very comfortable in a way as well. So, it's like it comes full circle. And that was meant to be at some point. But it's really fun. That's neat. I like that. Okay.

[00:03:14] So, before I get into the questions, I actually was digging around. I looked at your announcement on LinkedIn where you talked about this new position you're going to be taking on, transitioning from the CFO to the CEO. And one of the things you said in there I want to ask you about because you said specifically, like, the mission you're solving in iSIMS is helping customers hire the right person at the right time. I would love to hear from you as a CEO. What is the value of hiring the right person at the right time? Yeah.

[00:03:41] I, this is where the passion really comes through in many cases because as a guy who's been running businesses, I've been running businesses for 20 years. I've been in business for 40 years. And I have observed time and again, as we all have, you can't scale a business or meet your strategic operational or financial objectives without having what I like to say the right people in the right roles at the right time. And you should probably qualify with doing the right things, but it's the first three that really relates to the TA mission. So, it's that simple.

[00:04:11] As a result, to me, hiring, if you're not considering it a component of strategy and operations, then you're not threading that through to what you ultimately should be doing as a CEO or as a board member. And that's how it all fits into the picture of enterprise value creation. Hiring is not just an HR process.

[00:04:28] And prior to this session, I was thinking and having a lot of different discussions more recently around our workforce report that shows jobs data in July, 17%, or excuse me, job openings up 17%. But hires are flat. And that's been a trend that has been persisting for some time, actually. And clearly what that suggests is demand is not converting into people on the job. So, for employers, what does that mean? That means projects are delayed. You're not investing in growth.

[00:04:58] You may be not performing service levels because of reduced staffing. But in my mind, this is exactly why every exec team and board should be developing what I think are strict criteria for the way they look at hiring performance. What it means for their business, and they should measure it. And just to pull an example from our customers, one of our customers, for example, they recently hit a 33-day, what I'll call a time-to-pill. And it turns out that's 33% better than their industry benchmark.

[00:05:28] And they did it with 17% increase in productivity amongst their recruiting team. That just demonstrates how fast you can move with the right tools. And why I really point that out is not because it demonstrates the power of our solution, which is great. But it really points out the power of hiring performance, which drives better business performance. And honestly, that becomes a competitive advantage.

[00:05:53] So, in my world, when I talk about talent as being among the most important, if not the most important, that's what I mean. And this is why boards and CEOs, C-level teams should care very passionately about it. Pro sorority. The competitive advantage piece there, maybe smile. Anyone who's listening to audio of this on the podcast won't hear, won't see that. But I smiled when you said it because I was speaking to a group of 600 HR leaders just yesterday in Kentucky. And I brought that thing up. I talked about it. I had been in a hospital talking to their team.

[00:06:22] So, I felt that I was at a place. So, I'm talking to the recruiting team, the HR team, which are my people. And then I'm talking to the head of cardiology and the head of the chief nursing officer and these people that are outside of my bubble. And then after I finished talking about some of the trends around hiring and retention, the CEO gets up and says, okay, listen, our SWOT analysis, our key threats to our business and viability long-term are these skill gaps, these key positions we can't fill. Those are the things that are keeping me up at night. And I heard it's like, okay, now I know I'm here. It all makes sense. It's all connected.

[00:06:51] But before then, I was thinking, do these people care about this topic? And suddenly, you have to care. If we want to keep taking care of patients here, we have to care about these things. So, to your point, having the right people in the right positions at the right time for them was a make or break. It was a pivotal point for them to get everybody on board pulling the same direction. Or if things continued in the path they were on, they were not going to end up in a good place. So, let's turn to something practical here. So, you're talking about how important this is. And I'm completely on board with you.

[00:07:19] If we have a CHRO, an HR leader in the audience, a talent leader in the audience who's listening to this, I said, okay, Mark, I've got to go talk to my CFO or my CEO. I've got to talk to our board and present to them. What is something that I can say that would get them on board with the same vision you have that this is a talent, this talent competition is a board-level priority? How do I help convey that to them? Is it really getting clear on positions that are tied to revenue? Is it thinking about the cost of not having the right person there?

[00:07:49] Talk with that for a second if you don't mind. I think businesses that are well-run tend to have very clear sets of objectives, goals, and they measure performance against those. And look, that includes all kinds of operating and financial reporting that sort of underscores that process.

[00:08:06] But if you are able to identify where the people, where the impact of a vacancy or the impact of a bad hire impact your ability to not meet one of those objectives, that to me is the goal that CFOs, CEOs really need to understand. CEOs are acutely aware of the need for the best talent at the C-suite and even the level beneath them.

[00:08:33] But I think it's less obvious at times that it could be in components of a large enterprise. It may not be pervasive. It may not be more on the management layer. It may be more out on the front line. But those are very distinct worlds. But they both have significant economic implications in terms of not just vacancy. That is always an issue. Because if you're trying to hire, you don't have the resourcing. You're going to move slower. Or something's going to not work the way you want.

[00:09:01] But the cost of a bad hire is also a big problem, right? Having somebody, how long does it take to hire somebody? I just mentioned a customer that's doing it in 33 days. That's wicked fast. In a lot of the managerial roles that our customers are hiring, that might be three, four months, depending on process. You add to that onboarding time. Think about what the cost of a bad hire or a vacancy of attrition really does lead you. It's months.

[00:09:26] If you have a 12-month plan, you might be denting the significant component of your plans and your ability to meet your goals. I was going to double down on that when you said significant economic implications. And you gave me a good example of that one. I was pulling that data for someone just today. And the estimates are all over the place, depending on the specialization of the job, things like that. Like you mentioned, the level, executive versus frontline. They're like 50%, 200% of the person's salary at the cost of a bad hire.

[00:09:55] To coach them along, find out they were not going to be recoverable, move them on, go back and start over in the process. There's so much wrapped up into that. And I've yet to meet a company that's like, we're good. We have lots of extra budget, lots of extra free time to handle all those things. And in today's world, it's getting harder and harder. Businesses need to be run with more and more, I'll call it, increasing precision.

[00:10:19] One of the benefits of AI across the board within a business is your ability to actually move information at velocity, which could lead to better and higher quality reporting. When I'm asked this question in general around how can TA help themselves in terms of supporting business cases to the CFO or COO or even COO boards, to me, it always comes down to providing data. And those people are making decisions based on data that they're gathering from all over the organization.

[00:10:47] Understanding how you think about these impacts. When I talk about hiring performance in the first question or when we went down that path, hiring performance is one of those different in different businesses and different units within a business.

[00:11:01] But TA teams that understand the value of the hire and the continuum of cost and impact and benefit from bad to good hires, those folks are going to be able to, one, leverage tools like ours to be able to make sure they're always doing what you know will matter the most. Hire the best quality candidates as fast as you can. That should always be the outcome along with process that is trusted by both candidates and the internal teams. Okay.

[00:11:31] So you finished there on a keyword that I want to bring, come back to, which is trust. Right now we are in this, this very strange environment. When I was a recruiter years ago, there was always some level of trust there trying to work through things. And now it feels like candidates don't trust employers. Our data show that only 15% of candidates say that employers are very honest with their employer brand. And then on the other side, employers are frustrated because they get a thousand applications that all look and sound the same because candidates are using these AI tools to apply. Just a weird time.

[00:12:01] So I'd love to hear from you for those people out there trying to solve for this right now. How do you balance speed, efficiency? Those are necessary with this trust piece in the hiring process. How do we make the most, the best, how do we get the best of both worlds? I think, I think it's a great question. It's one we're spending a lot of time thinking about because ultimately it's about outcomes. I think, and balancing those, but to get to the right outcome. Speed certainly matters, especially when you've got critical hires that are open.

[00:12:31] But it's not the only outcome. I would argue it's the less important outcome. The most valuable outcome is a good hiring decision resulting from what I would consider to be a good process that is trusted by both candidates and recruiters. And coming back to the point on speed though, we published a report earlier this year and I think it was something like 58% of TA leaders couldn't clearly distinguish AI from automation. And why does that matter? If you're going to automate a broken process, you're just going to reach the wrong answer faster, right?

[00:13:00] So the reality is AI is going to be really valuable when it can take on the work it can do well. So the repetitive components of the work, screening, scheduling, comms around interviews, that type of stuff. But freeing up recruiters to do the more high value components of their job. And to that point, in that same body of work, we found that 80% of TA leaders were saying that recruiters are now spending more time engaging with candidates because of AI.

[00:13:29] And 73% of those folks would say it's helping recruiters strengthen their hiring manager partnerships. This is huge. And to me, it's a great outcome because back to your question, candidates don't trust the brands, managers don't trust the process. This is all huge because how are you going to build that trust human to human? That's human to machine. Yes, you need to trust the AI, but you also need to make sure that the people are spending their energy where it is best spent

[00:13:56] and creating integrity around the overall process itself. So to me, the use of time that AI is freeing up for the recruiters, it's the most valuable because it's probably going to result in better quality hires. And those better quality hires, I'm pretty sure, would say the experience worked well on both sides. Having said all that, AI does need to be deployed responsibly, and you've got to maintain the integrity and trust within the hiring process.

[00:14:22] So the human has to be able to override it, and I think it's something like 58% of orgs, AI is overriding recruiter judgments. The way we think about AI is it's really awesome to inform and recommend, but people need to own the call. So I think, I guess the last thing I would say is I think we truly recognize along this trust factor, because we, this sort of plays into the evolution of the world we're in now in a different way.

[00:14:50] But I think AI adoption is going to move actually at the speed of this trust, the trust of the teams internally, the trust of the candidates. And during that trust, the technology does have to be transparent. It has to be well-governed and it has to be grounded in the context of how the organization really works. And of course, this is what we commit our solutions can do to within our customers' ecosystems. What encourages me about that, Mark, is I've yet to speak to a recruiting leader that says,

[00:15:19] I absolutely want to get rid of everybody on team and just use these AI tools to do all of this. None of them are saying that. And when we look at our data on the opposite side, we surveyed thousands of candidates every single year. And one of the things that stands out to me is we ask them about their comfort level with AI being used. And they say, listen, if it benefits me, I'm not opposed to it. If it's helping me some way to match me to a job that I'm a good fit for, things like that. But this year, the big takeaway aligns perfectly with what you just said.

[00:15:47] We gave candidates a couple of different ways to opt into a job that uses AI to screen. And we gave them a couple of different language to explain that. And the one that they most preferred was we use AI for screening, but a human makes the final decision. At the end of the day, you should want that. Humans work with humans. Yes, we work with the chiefs as well. But I think that human element is critical to the whole process.

[00:16:12] And what I really love about the stats I just shared is getting the recruiters in the mode of spending time where time is best spent. And that goes back to the value of the talent you're bringing in the organization, right? It is how do you make the best hire? You get not just the most information in context around the decision, but you also bring that human judgment. Because humans are going to critically think about things in the ways AI cannot today. And maybe I hope never can. I don't know. That's a different topic for a different day, a different podcast.

[00:16:43] We'll have to look at part two for that one. So you talked about the value of AI in supporting decisions and helping us gather information and helping screen, schedule, those sorts of things that are mundane that don't really add value to have a human in the mix on some of those anyway. So do you think that AI's biggest value for hiring is in those sorts of things? Is it in decision support? Is it in gathering more intelligence and information to make choices?

[00:17:10] Where do you think the biggest value point is with AI in recruiting? Because we talked about a bunch of use cases so far. The short answer is it's in all, in the entirety. But I think the short answer is, yes, automation is a big part of it, right? The bigger opportunity, though, I think is actually in that intelligence. And the tough thing about intelligence is that it comes and it has to come from context. It has to come from a lot of context for it to be able to work.

[00:17:38] I think while a lot of the AI models might be commoditizing, and I'm not an expert in that, but I would imagine that's the case. What I think is really going to separate AI for use in talent acquisition, specifically within the enterprise, is the context it can leverage to support decisions which enable responsible actions, right? And what do I mean by context? Things like role, skills, hiring manager preferences, policies, interview history, candidates, just to name a few.

[00:18:08] You're well familiar with all the things around the context of a hiring decision or all the elements of information and data that are behind the context in which a decision is actually made. And what's exciting for us is as the ATS market leader, the Simpsons operated at the center of enterprise hiring for 25 years. Thousands of companies around the world use our platform, and their activity gives us insight in the form of billions of hiring interactions.

[00:18:33] It's that foundation, actually, which is captured in our system of record, a.k.a. the ATS. And that's what provides us a vast amount of context, enabling us to build intelligence. And it's that intelligence within our AI solutions that is grounded, actually, in the way that enterprise actually hire. And that is experience, that is context, that is you have to have that, I believe, to be able to generate intelligent agents.

[00:18:59] So with that position, of course, this is where we're driving the next evolution of hiring. And it will be agentic, right? Specialized agents are going to be coordinating across candidates, recruiters, hiring managers, systems. That's going to be done in an orchestrated way versus individual AI features that will improve work. They will speed things up, but they won't cover the whole ground. And the good news is, again, I think in some of the research we did with you guys jointly,

[00:19:27] somewhere 46% of companies are already using AI or planning for agentic AI. So the market is ready. And I'm super excited because I think iSIMS and our intelligent hiring platform, we're really going to lead this evolution. But importantly, and I think this is important, the principle behind the platform is the system of record. It doesn't disappear in the new world. I think a lot of people are looking at the world and saying everything will be done by agents. It cannot be done.

[00:19:55] You have to have that system of record. The bigger, the better, because that is what's going to breed the intelligence. So our perspective is it actually becomes more relevant and more valuable going forward because it supplies the context, as well as the governance and the trusted actions that the agents need to do their work. And you well know that hiring requires real strong governance, as well as trusted system actions.

[00:20:25] The intelligence layer piece to me is the part that sometimes people overlook when they're thinking, oh, I can quickly use one of these Gen AI tools to do something as a recruiter or recruiting team. And yet they're missing all of that context you talked about a moment ago that a system like iSIMS is going to give them, it's going to be enriched by on the data side. It's not just give me some questions for this or help me to screen this person, but knowing what you know across our enterprise. We hire for these kind of roles. We have this kind of candidates.

[00:20:53] We've done this process for this job to hire it 47 times in the last two years. Give me insight from all of those things versus going somewhere else and doing it on an ad hoc basis and losing all of the accumulated knowledge you've gathered over time. You're like, that doesn't exist. And a system like iSIMS was tapping into those things and giving you that layer is adding value to that process in a way that no human has that amount of brain power to capture all of those things and bring them into the conversation. That's that I couldn't agree more.

[00:21:23] It's a big mission, but it's exciting to be at this juncture where we actually have the tools of technology. And now what is a market paradigm shift? That's really going to help rise the tide of this evolution. I'm super excited. So you talked about agents there for a minute, about some of the vision. That's going to be the next wave within talent technology. Is that the biggest theme or trend you think is going to be coming in the next few years? Or are there other things that you're watching that you think are going to be also be big and notable that employers should know about?

[00:21:54] So it's funny. I have been around a long time and I was around when iSIMS was among the first cloud native SaaS solutions, right? That was 25 years ago. Yeah, that technology or that paradigm shift in technology has created a huge step function in value creation for businesses leveraging systems. It's just been a giant wave of value creation. I think we're on the brink of the next pick. And I think it is really the paradigm shift this time around AI.

[00:22:22] And I think we're going to see it in two ways. First, the hiring process will happen more conversationally and it's going to happen where people are already doing work. And I know that's being talked about in a lot of ways, but I think that is profound. If you ask me, would I rather be doing work within teams where I'm working constantly all day long? The answer is, of course I would. Would I rather be doing it conversationally? Of course I would.

[00:22:48] So in the future, we see managers expressing intents, interacting with intelligent systems that are able, again, to go gather that context and make recommendations to support decisions and complete approved work. That's a really elegant flow. And it's done. It's completely changing the user experience.

[00:23:10] You're not going into a system and working within a system that, by the way, looks really different than the three other enterprise systems you've got to interact with every day, whether it's a CRM or ERP or whatever. I think that's a big game changer. So that experience combined with that ability to interact then and have all of that intelligence behind you, that's awesome.

[00:23:32] Secondly, I think the next big shift is it is really that ATS and the system of record moving from something that has been basically a passive, really important components of governance and capability to audit, things like that, because hiring is a highly regulated endeavor. But it's really shifting to being a much more active participant in driving to better hiring outcomes through context, intelligence, and that orchestration layer.

[00:24:01] And from our worldview, the ATS doesn't disappear. It actually becomes more central and more valuable. You asked about that. That's sort of the generic, where's the market going? I see ISIMs evolving from a talent acquisition system of record, which, real question, we have been that, but really toward an enterprise hiring intelligence platform. And over time, hopefully, we'll be the trusted infrastructure for what is agent-orchestrated hiring across the board.

[00:24:28] And the best place for us, by the way, is all this is going to be built on the foundation that our customers already rely on. But we're not going to be asking us to start over. And I think that's also a huge value shift for our customers. That is the advantage. I said it a minute ago, the context, the intelligence, all the data being in one place. That's the advantage of having those things in one place versus trying to start up somewhere else or patch this together yourself as an employer is having one solution you can trust.

[00:24:57] You already trust it for all these other sorts of things, and now it's just going to be that much better. That's really excellent. All right. I want to give you a chance before we wrap up here, closing thoughts. Someone's out there listening. They've enjoyed this conversation. What's the one thing you want them to walk away with from this bigger conversation? Because we covered a lot of ground from the business impact and value of hiring all the way through the technology side. What do you want someone to walk away with as a takeaway here? First of all, I hope they enjoyed it. I certainly have. So I appreciate you bringing me on, Ben.

[00:25:25] I just wrap up by saying, look, we've spent the last 25 years focused on one of the most important consequential decisions our customers can make, who they hire. That provides us unbelievable, vast amounts of context in the way in which they do that. We've earned trust and we have a deep understanding of how enterprise hiring actually works. But where we started, I'm going to end with the bottom line is hiring performance drives better business performance, right?

[00:25:51] So the companies that connect those two are always going to be better positioned to compete, grow, adapt, et cetera. Our goal, very simply, is to drive the next evolution in enterprise hiring through our intelligent hiring platform with the components that I've described. And our belief is that's really going to enable our customers to really connect those two dots even better than they do today. So we couldn't be more excited about that going forward.

[00:26:17] And we really look forward to engaging with all of our customers as you move forward here, executing to that vision. It's a big vision, but it sounds like they've got the right person in the chair to drive them that way. That's exciting. So if someone wants to learn more about iSIMS and the good work that you and the team are continuing to do in the market, what's the best way for them to do that? They should check us out on LinkedIn. They should be obviously going to our website. They should be looking at all of the releases we will be making regarding our intelligent hiring platform going forward.

[00:26:45] And I'm always happy to engage with folks one-on-one. Our teams are out there all over the world wearing those purple shirts at trade shows and meeting with customers regularly. So there's many different ways to interact with us. We look forward to it. I look good in purple, Mark. I need to talk to the team about getting all those purple shirts. That was figured out. Goodness. Goodness. Goodness. Okay. Wonderful. So we'll make sure and get some of the iSIMS contact information there into the show notes where someone can click right over, can see what you're up to. Incredible case studies.

[00:27:15] Listen, I'm a sucker for a good story. There's some incredible case studies over there of companies that are solving big problems around this. Again, for all of you that are listening, you know, I love the research, but this goes back to my roots as a recruiter myself and as an HR leader. And I know all too well the value of a great hire and the cost of a not so great hire and that big range in between as Mark talked about today. For all of you out there, thank you so much for listening to the conversation. Thank you to Mark. Thank you to the iSIMS team for helping to make this come together. And we'll catch you all again next time on We're Only Human.

[00:27:45] Thanks. Thanks. Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. I'm honored to have you as a listener. If you enjoyed this episode, please take 10 seconds to rate it at iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, if you know a friend that could benefit from today's conversation, please pass it their way. After all, a rising tide lifts all ships. To see show notes, sponsor information, and our full show archives, visit onlyhumanshow.com.