#052 - Micro-Habits and the Behavioural Science Behind Improved Wellbeing (with Jane Wang)

[00:00:00] These days, society has a love-hate relationship with technology.

[00:00:05] It's an integral part of our digitally driven world, yet if we aren't careful, getting sucked

[00:00:11] into the digital vortex can be disastrous for our mental and physical health.

[00:00:16] Thankfully, some great technology companies are using their coding and behavioral science

[00:00:21] skills for good.

[00:00:24] These companies are helping people live healthier, happier, more vibrant lives.

[00:00:28] They facilitate learning, engaging with nature and connecting with other humans.

[00:00:33] Today, we'll meet Jane Wang.

[00:00:36] She's one of the amazing women driving this positive change, and we'll learn how her

[00:00:40] biochemistry and medical background led her to create a unique wellness technology company

[00:00:46] that's transforming not just consumer health and corporate wellness, but influencing the

[00:00:51] future of the insurance industry.

[00:00:55] Welcome to The Working Well Podcast, the show that explores the rapidly changing

[00:00:59] landscape of work and well-being.

[00:01:02] Each episode, we dive into the hottest topics in leadership, employee well-being, and the

[00:01:07] future of work.

[00:01:08] I'm your host, Tim Borys.

[00:01:10] Here's a bit more about Jane.

[00:01:14] Jane Wang is the CEO of Optimity, an award-winning wellness engagement platform that delivers

[00:01:19] personalized holistic health programs with microlearning, wearable devices, and

[00:01:24] gamification to support healthy living.

[00:01:27] In the last nine years, she has led the team to codify 30-plus years of behavior science

[00:01:32] into a mobile app and digital program that serves 3 million members across North America.

[00:01:39] Prior to Optimity, Jane led innovations in dynamic health risk scoring and specialized

[00:01:44] in digital patient engagement programs for phase 2 and 3 global clinical trials.

[00:01:50] She's passionate about prevention and proactive health programs to improve population health

[00:01:54] and mortality using nudges and the joy of gamification.

[00:01:58] Hey, Jane.

[00:02:06] I'm excited to have you on the podcast.

[00:02:08] I really enjoyed our chat the other day and looking forward to diving into the two of

[00:02:13] the topics we discussed.

[00:02:14] How's your day going?

[00:02:16] It's great.

[00:02:17] It's a beautiful spring day and I'm excited to get outside for the latter part of

[00:02:23] it.

[00:02:24] Well, awesome.

[00:02:26] Outside is perfect.

[00:02:27] And what were you trying to do?

[00:02:29] I know you grew up in Alberta, so you love the outdoors as well, I'm sure.

[00:02:33] And we've got some snow here today, so I'm looking forward to getting out and experiencing

[00:02:40] a bit of the outdoors and the snow before it's gone.

[00:02:44] In our conversation the other day, you're a bit of an enigma to me.

[00:02:49] You've got this biochemistry background and now you're running a tech app and you

[00:02:57] are making all these great changes.

[00:02:58] Tell me a bit about the origin story of optimity and how you went from biochemistry to mompreneur

[00:03:08] and running this amazing app.

[00:03:11] Thanks so much.

[00:03:14] First of all, thank you for having me on here.

[00:03:16] I'm always interested in having really impactful conversations around my favorite

[00:03:23] topic, which is helping people live healthier and longer and with better financial wellness

[00:03:28] as well.

[00:03:30] It's been an evolution, as you said.

[00:03:32] I came from a family of developers and coders, so electrical engineers, so both my mom and

[00:03:40] dad.

[00:03:41] So I just coded growing up.

[00:03:42] I didn't really think much about it.

[00:03:49] We were just in a very supportive middle-class family where I got to choose what my interests

[00:03:56] were and I was really interested in health sciences.

[00:04:00] Because I did quite well in my biology and chemistry classes, I thought biochem was the

[00:04:04] right thing.

[00:04:05] But little did I know that biochem was a lot more medical.

[00:04:08] So as I am the first person in my family to be in the health sciences and then

[00:04:14] the whole point was I wanted to have a doctor in the family so that we, in case anybody got

[00:04:22] sick, I'll be there and I'll be able to help them out and do that.

[00:04:27] And it would be really fun.

[00:04:29] But the more I progressed and I did my MCATs and all the hospital internships and so

[00:04:37] on, I found that they were lacking a lot of scalable ways of doing things.

[00:04:43] There's not a lot of software in it and I just couldn't understand.

[00:04:47] So even in my research projects, I created code and scripts that they can run to analyze

[00:04:53] data.

[00:04:54] So I ended up actually just specializing in working on technology platforms for, started

[00:05:01] with hospital systems and then they went into clinical trials and Alphama Hospital

[00:05:06] Site to a CRL contract research organization working for Large Pharma.

[00:05:12] And I all along the way kind of brought my flavor of technology analytics.

[00:05:19] So I have a stats minor and so on, and then became the specialist and I worked on a lot

[00:05:25] of really amazing prevention type of projects.

[00:05:29] So I got to work on ovarian cancer prevention.

[00:05:31] I got to work on Alzheimer's.

[00:05:33] I worked in research in MS in also HIV.

[00:05:38] So it was really cool and I predict patient outcomes using kind of the best in class software

[00:05:44] and data.

[00:05:45] So this is from blood scans, patient assessments, health assessments, MRI.

[00:05:51] We kind of did the first versions and this is in like in the 2000s and early development

[00:05:59] of I guess now it's categorized as AI but back then it was really a script running

[00:06:07] on an MRI scan to detect lesions and to auto fill them and then the doctor would take a

[00:06:12] look at them to verify it.

[00:06:13] So I got to work on stuff like that and prediction of mortality and morbidity outcomes.

[00:06:19] So that kind of was the first 10 years of my professional life from my undergrad

[00:06:25] marrying what you know, my what I inherited from my family in terms of just skills

[00:06:33] and then also what my personal interests was.

[00:06:36] But unfortunately in 2011 kind of like took a turn and as I was doing these like world

[00:06:42] changing research across the world in my own backyard, my mom got sick and she was 52

[00:06:47] at the time and she had developed cancer.

[00:06:50] But it was a different type of cancer was leukemia and I couldn't do anything about

[00:06:55] it and that at the time my partner was also he was in he was an emergency

[00:07:00] physician and the two of us like it completely I realized my first hypothesis,

[00:07:07] which was hey, I'm in health care.

[00:07:08] Right.

[00:07:09] Like we have like we should be able to take care of my parents.

[00:07:13] It didn't work like that.

[00:07:14] And we were not able to take care of her and she passed away within six months.

[00:07:17] So I lost her.

[00:07:19] She was very young.

[00:07:20] She was 52 and that took me on a that was definitely a pivotal point

[00:07:25] in my life where I realized that the work that I was doing,

[00:07:31] although, you know, as glamorous and as interesting as it was for me

[00:07:37] professionally didn't really truly have the impact on my family.

[00:07:41] So or other families like mine.

[00:07:44] So that took me on kind of a soul searching journey.

[00:07:49] I ended up getting more education to kind of fill the time.

[00:07:52] So I went and got an MBA, a Disadvantaged Consulting.

[00:07:56] I worked in investment in private equity, just looking at investing

[00:08:00] in different types of health areas because I thought money would power.

[00:08:03] That's kind of what I learned from my MBA that money would power change.

[00:08:09] I didn't quite find the answer yet.

[00:08:10] And then I ended up doing some master's training and analytics work

[00:08:15] at in the Bay Area at Stanford and.

[00:08:19] During the time there, the year there, I saw so many.

[00:08:25] People like myself, like not not kind of like the Elon Musk,

[00:08:32] like I, you know, I quit school and I started doing this,

[00:08:35] but people that are kind of mid career,

[00:08:39] starting companies and making amazing change and, you know,

[00:08:43] supporting hundreds of thousands of patients, not like the few,

[00:08:46] you know, the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of patients

[00:08:49] and and doing prevention.

[00:08:52] And it was, you know, 2013, 2014, which is circa the rise of Fitbit.

[00:08:57] This little company and this little company, you know,

[00:09:01] Google had their, you know, Google Health thing,

[00:09:04] Apple started announcing their first watch, rolling that out.

[00:09:07] So it was such an interesting time.

[00:09:09] And I just caught the startup bug.

[00:09:11] And this is Optimities, actually the second startup

[00:09:14] that I'm worked on, like it's been amazing.

[00:09:18] And then during in throughout that journey, I've, you know,

[00:09:21] been able to also build my own family.

[00:09:25] And now I have two little ones and I really identify with being

[00:09:30] a non-traditional entrepreneur.

[00:09:32] So that's why I'm a mom printer and I'm in the tech industry.

[00:09:35] And now we support over three million people on their journey.

[00:09:39] Yeah.

[00:09:41] Looking for people like my mom, you know, that's that's.

[00:09:45] And congrats on the journey.

[00:09:46] And I do want to say I feel you on your mom.

[00:09:50] I just lost my father last fall and I know, like.

[00:09:56] It hits at the heart so so much.

[00:09:58] And yeah, so my thoughts are with you on that.

[00:10:03] Yeah, it's been actually very healing the last now.

[00:10:07] Really, it's 13 years.

[00:10:10] It's been very healing to be able to do something about it

[00:10:14] and to to to take a very active role and to wake up every day

[00:10:19] with that mission, as well as along with the team.

[00:10:23] So like my teams, like that they all have personal stories

[00:10:25] like yours because guess what?

[00:10:30] We all get touched by health tragedies at some point.

[00:10:34] And it's just part of the human experience.

[00:10:37] And it's really about how can we optimize that experience

[00:10:41] and have lots of joy in it and allow that to power a connection.

[00:10:47] And yeah, and I think all that is

[00:10:52] it's been hugely healing and impactful.

[00:10:56] Yeah. And we know your mom would be proud with what you built

[00:11:00] and how many people you're impacting.

[00:11:03] So as we're in our conversation the other day, we

[00:11:06] and I guess we originally connected by an excellence

[00:11:10] Canada webinar on workplace well-being.

[00:11:13] And that's that's an area directly aligned with.

[00:11:17] With where my passions are and my journey brought me from elite

[00:11:22] athletics to personal training all the way into this work,

[00:11:27] reforming or re transforming the world of workplace well-being.

[00:11:32] And I really am interested in to chat with you about

[00:11:37] optima because.

[00:11:39] I see what you're doing is is quite different than what else is out there.

[00:11:44] But I think a lot of people listening are probably going to say.

[00:11:48] We don't need another frigging app.

[00:11:51] Like what why like the user engagement is low.

[00:11:59] What's the house?

[00:11:59] Another app going to help people actually improve.

[00:12:03] People don't use the ones that are already on their phone anyway.

[00:12:05] So what's this?

[00:12:06] What's different about this and how is it going to help companies and individuals?

[00:12:12] Yeah, yeah, it depends on the person how they look at it.

[00:12:16] I don't really look at the the phenotype of which is like how it shows up.

[00:12:22] Right. So like this a cup as a cop.

[00:12:24] Right. Like we don't need another cup.

[00:12:25] I have 50 other cups in my cupboard.

[00:12:28] But I think it's really important to look at the problem itself and what we see

[00:12:32] and to find and to solve a problem for the person, for the who.

[00:12:37] So let's take the example of someone like my mother.

[00:12:41] Right. So she she was 52 at the time.

[00:12:43] She was working for a software company.

[00:12:45] They had a great benefit, health benefits.

[00:12:50] And but they also pay the people to do assessments.

[00:12:55] Right. So you could do your physical assessments and stuff like that.

[00:12:58] I think they paid like two hundred, two hundred fifty dollars and so on.

[00:13:01] But those benefits are not being used.

[00:13:04] And then you take that person now in our time, which is 20 the year 2024.

[00:13:09] You're going to find that it's a distributed workforce.

[00:13:12] People are coming from all kinds of places.

[00:13:13] Like how are you going to communicate those benefits to those people?

[00:13:16] How are you going to get their fingertips and where are they looking

[00:13:19] for this stuff at the time where they're not feeling super well?

[00:13:23] Are they, you know, are what is the first place that they're going to look for information?

[00:13:31] And how do you get it to them, you know, in the best way, most efficient way

[00:13:36] and most problem solving way.

[00:13:37] So you kind of look at solving the problem there.

[00:13:39] And I think optimity itself is a data driven health

[00:13:43] and wellness engagement program that allows anyone to connect within seconds

[00:13:50] and get access and communicate and find the benefits

[00:13:55] and be able to do an assessment quickly and be able to access

[00:14:00] their information and kind of do the do the health portion

[00:14:05] of it, the health benefit portion of it.

[00:14:08] And then the second part is culturally, I think we're at a time where

[00:14:15] in people's leaders are starting to understand

[00:14:19] that the organization is actually a fabric, right?

[00:14:23] It's not just like people

[00:14:27] clocking in and doing things like I can tell you from my team,

[00:14:30] people are very mission driven.

[00:14:32] You know, I'm here because I know my team and I know them

[00:14:36] not through just the work tasks that we're doing,

[00:14:39] but these other human connections and the social connections.

[00:14:43] And there's this whole sense of belonging that happens.

[00:14:47] And there's many micro habits that are part of our.

[00:14:53] Original work that was kind of eroded during the COVID years.

[00:14:56] And what we found that our particular version of optimity,

[00:15:01] which actually it's called FIGITAL, so it's physical and digital.

[00:15:05] It really enables these asynchronous connections around micro habits.

[00:15:10] So for example, you and I can do like, you know,

[00:15:16] around something that we already self discover that we don't do enough.

[00:15:19] For example, like I don't drink enough water.

[00:15:21] We can actually be in a synchronous challenge between you and I on this platform.

[00:15:26] So we're doing something physically, but it's trapped on the digital thing.

[00:15:30] So I think apps are still one of the most efficient ways to connect things.

[00:15:35] And then optimity is more than just an app.

[00:15:37] The app is just the place, the portal that you can pick up a mobile device.

[00:15:43] 98% of people have a mobile device so that they can connect in a way

[00:15:49] that's free to them, that's very accessible for them.

[00:15:51] And I can connect with someone around the topic.

[00:15:55] So right? The experience, the journey

[00:15:59] is what creates that engagement experience.

[00:16:01] And we work on a lot of different types of digital,

[00:16:06] I would say things that make sense for that company in their occupational

[00:16:14] in their occupational context.

[00:16:16] So for example, we have a Satori, which is a cheese factory.

[00:16:20] I don't know each Satori cheese, but I love their cheese and

[00:16:24] they came to us because traditional ones programs or those, you know,

[00:16:30] different things that what my mom experienced didn't

[00:16:34] doesn't work in their way.

[00:16:36] They have some admin staff at most of their people.

[00:16:38] Some of the most of people don't even have emails, right?

[00:16:41] So so how are they going to connect with them?

[00:16:44] Well, we help with that modern connectivity.

[00:16:47] Anyone can do it is bring your own device.

[00:16:49] You can bring your own phone.

[00:16:50] You can all connect that way.

[00:16:52] Now they can connect with over 80, 90% of their employees

[00:16:56] on something that brings the employee joy, brings them rewards

[00:17:00] and is really scientific and prevention based as well.

[00:17:03] So I think also the content of what's going in there is important

[00:17:07] because many people could say, oh, an app is an app.

[00:17:10] The same way people say, oh, there's too many streaming services.

[00:17:13] But guess what?

[00:17:14] The streaming service that you look at and that you really connect to

[00:17:18] is the one that delivers the content that you care about.

[00:17:21] Like, you know, it does Netflix is Netflix producing

[00:17:24] the right content that you care about.

[00:17:26] Then you're on that or if you have young kids, you know,

[00:17:29] is Disney the real platform?

[00:17:31] It's really about what's inside and what are the journeys?

[00:17:34] What are you getting from that?

[00:17:36] Love it.

[00:17:36] And yeah, you said it really well.

[00:17:39] Apps are apps.

[00:17:40] I always talk about apps as tools and you know,

[00:17:44] I put that out at the beginning

[00:17:45] but no one needs another frigging app because I hear that from

[00:17:49] people that are cynical in the workforce or employees.

[00:17:53] They're like, oh yeah, our company's throwing another app at us

[00:17:58] and they just roll their eyes and say, oh,

[00:18:02] like this is the flavor of the month essentially.

[00:18:05] And now you've been at this

[00:18:07] and years or whatever in in optimity.

[00:18:10] And I like how you talked about micro learning, micro habits

[00:18:15] because on the app side, we know that

[00:18:19] developers build apps for stickiness.

[00:18:24] You know, your Facebook feed or your Instagram feed

[00:18:27] or Snapchat or whatever, TikTok,

[00:18:30] they're all designed to draw you in and spend more time on the app.

[00:18:35] And when we know that behavioral science is there,

[00:18:39] how do we, I'm always like, how do we use it for good?

[00:18:42] Yeah, we talk about data for good.

[00:18:44] We talk about technology for good.

[00:18:45] And that's a really important concept

[00:18:49] that we've codified into our technology.

[00:18:52] So the optimal amount of time that we want someone

[00:18:54] that's in the app casually is around five to seven minutes,

[00:18:57] almost like recess, right?

[00:19:00] It's a recess, right?

[00:19:02] It's a, it's a recess from work.

[00:19:04] It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a learning break

[00:19:07] and it's a learning break that's joyful.

[00:19:10] And then the second type of fuse case that we have

[00:19:13] is people that are doing physical exercise in it.

[00:19:16] So if you, for example,

[00:19:17] if you are doing like a seven minute workout

[00:19:19] or you're doing a 30 minute workout or something like that,

[00:19:22] we want you to be in there

[00:19:24] and have the best experience to deliver that workout.

[00:19:26] So that's fine too.

[00:19:27] And then the last part is be able to sync in the background

[00:19:30] so you, you just walk and you just live.

[00:19:32] You just do your day to day, but in the background,

[00:19:34] we're tracking the information for the purpose

[00:19:38] of gamifying it and allowing you to connect with some,

[00:19:42] a colleague or accountability partner.

[00:19:45] So we have family and friends programs too to do that.

[00:19:47] So you don't have to like take out your phone

[00:19:49] and interrupt that beautiful physical experience

[00:19:53] to, to, to like log something out.

[00:19:57] You don't necessarily have to do that

[00:19:58] because we're doing that for you already in the background.

[00:20:00] So I think that's kind of the three key use cases

[00:20:03] and over the 10 years, yeah,

[00:20:05] we've been able to show a really great sustained usage.

[00:20:09] So the best in class stuff is, you know,

[00:20:11] monthly active 30 to 40%

[00:20:13] and that's what's kind of beautiful about having this type

[00:20:18] of a program.

[00:20:19] We are really not about attracting the users

[00:20:23] or they're sticking it on, you know,

[00:20:25] their nose into the phone for a very long time.

[00:20:28] It's really something to occupy everything we talk about

[00:20:31] like rest time, which could be like basically toilet time

[00:20:34] for people to like scroll through and do some micro learnings,

[00:20:37] do some learning and Ernie for them to get nudged

[00:20:41] to actually go outside and be physically active

[00:20:43] or, or to have something in their hands

[00:20:46] that they could do a short exercise

[00:20:49] and build an extra class.

[00:20:51] Short exercise and build a exercise thing

[00:20:54] within the timeframe that they have, right?

[00:20:56] If you only have 12 minutes,

[00:20:57] we'll build something for them that is in that,

[00:20:59] that happens literally within a clickable button.

[00:21:03] So.

[00:21:04] Great.

[00:21:05] And I like how you've talked about the,

[00:21:09] the engagement aspect of the,

[00:21:11] the platform and can you talk a bit more about

[00:21:16] belonging and how that really fits in particularly

[00:21:19] on the, on the corporate side.

[00:21:22] Yeah.

[00:21:23] So it's really a,

[00:21:25] it's a pretty complicated topic, isn't it?

[00:21:29] And we humans are pretty complex social creatures.

[00:21:35] So in just Canada, right?

[00:21:38] According to statistics,

[00:21:39] Canada more than 40% of Canadians like last year

[00:21:43] were really feeling lonely some or all the time.

[00:21:46] And I think the problem really is worse really about

[00:21:51] around single people and those who are really living alone.

[00:21:54] And guess what?

[00:21:56] During the pandemic,

[00:21:57] it forced a lot of people to be trapped within that.

[00:22:01] So, and you know, it's somewhat rebounding,

[00:22:05] but it's not fully rebounded.

[00:22:07] So we're kind of left with this scar tissue

[00:22:10] and some inertia around just mental health.

[00:22:15] And it's exerting itself and you're seeing this stats

[00:22:19] around loneliness as a, you know,

[00:22:22] as a lack of connection and really kind of the role

[00:22:27] of the employer in rebuilding that fabric

[00:22:32] of communities and belonging.

[00:22:34] And I think that's kind of a nice side benefit

[00:22:37] because in my research originally like way back

[00:22:41] in the health science days was really around holistic health,

[00:22:44] which is not just the physical health,

[00:22:47] but it also has many different pillars.

[00:22:50] And one of them is social connectedness,

[00:22:56] which is really around the prediction

[00:22:59] of how long a patient or how well a patient will do comes

[00:23:03] as a, it's influenced by do you have people caring for you?

[00:23:09] A caregiver, do you have an accountability partner?

[00:23:13] Do you have someone that supports you in your diet?

[00:23:17] You exercise your medication needs

[00:23:20] and you're right, like all this stuff.

[00:23:22] And I think this now in the corporate sense comes in also

[00:23:29] as a flavor of, hey, do people care about you?

[00:23:32] Do you have a work friend?

[00:23:34] Do you at least have one person that you feel comfortable

[00:23:38] to do something that is a non-work activity?

[00:23:43] What?

[00:23:44] And that turns out to be something that we can facilitate

[00:23:48] on a health and well-being platform, right?

[00:23:51] You walk every day.

[00:23:53] I hope you do and you sleep every day

[00:23:55] and you hopefully drink water and eat every day.

[00:23:57] Can we find you a partner to do something with?

[00:24:01] And it could be at work.

[00:24:03] We definitely highly encourage that.

[00:24:05] So we do nudge people towards that.

[00:24:07] We give them points and we incentivize

[00:24:09] and we do the matching and so on.

[00:24:11] But you could also bring someone that is in your family

[00:24:14] or friends, your neighbor.

[00:24:16] So many of our corporate partners, if they do have the budget,

[00:24:19] they do turn on the family and friends program

[00:24:22] because it's quite cost-effective.

[00:24:24] And it increases kind of the impact of a program like this.

[00:24:31] And then a lot of the other companies that we work with,

[00:24:34] some of them are like fraternal.

[00:24:36] So they have their own like a sense of belonging,

[00:24:40] which basically it's called a common bond.

[00:24:43] So it could be, you know, they're all of like a German immigrant descent, right?

[00:24:48] So they have that or they all volunteer

[00:24:51] and do a particular activity, right?

[00:24:53] We sponsor communities like the Diabetes Association

[00:24:57] or something like that.

[00:24:58] So these are participation in Canada.

[00:25:01] That's also on our platform.

[00:25:03] So in those type of things,

[00:25:05] it's helping to find like-minded individuals

[00:25:09] and create community things and rewarding them

[00:25:11] for the activities that they do together.

[00:25:13] So for example, we reward volunteer activities on Optimity

[00:25:17] and we help everything from like the people RSVPing for it

[00:25:22] to getting the information again as a communication platform

[00:25:25] to get them there.

[00:25:27] And then as they do the activities just in the background,

[00:25:29] you don't have to do much on it.

[00:25:31] It's just, you know, it's that you were there

[00:25:33] and then we reward you at the end.

[00:25:37] And yeah, you can gamify it with a leader board

[00:25:39] or recognition board or a gratitude board

[00:25:42] where people can share their experience

[00:25:44] and all that kind of adds into this sense of belonging

[00:25:49] and that like the collective and the community

[00:25:52] and that I had made a one-on-one connection with someone

[00:25:56] and then that me as part of my community,

[00:25:58] my work team, my, you know,

[00:26:00] the people that I showed up with

[00:26:02] did something bigger than myself.

[00:26:05] Yeah, and I, you know, in this digital world,

[00:26:09] especially distributed workforces and remote work, hybrid,

[00:26:14] people do get lonely and especially when those opportunities

[00:26:21] aren't available to them on a daily basis.

[00:26:23] So I love the fact that you're facilitating that.

[00:26:26] Now if we take a step back from the belonging

[00:26:28] and look at the bigger picture on your site,

[00:26:31] you mentioned five holistic health pillars.

[00:26:34] Tell me a little bit more about what your pillars are

[00:26:37] and how they might differ from what else is out there.

[00:26:40] Yeah.

[00:26:43] Well, okay. So for us, it's physical health, right?

[00:26:47] Nutrition, right?

[00:26:49] Abs are made in the kitchen, not just in the gym.

[00:26:52] So it's really important.

[00:26:54] Mental health, right?

[00:26:57] So this all has everything to do with like

[00:26:59] your self-care meditation stuff

[00:27:01] to everything from actually coping with

[00:27:05] certain types of trauma and so on.

[00:27:07] So in that bucket, social connectedness,

[00:27:09] which we just had a really, you know, kind of unpacked.

[00:27:14] And then the last is financial wellness

[00:27:17] because that's such an indicator of longevity

[00:27:19] and that shows up in the science everywhere as well.

[00:27:23] So being able to, you know, pay for the food

[00:27:26] and the exercise and be feel okay,

[00:27:29] not have the anxiety, be able to sleep

[00:27:31] and also coping with certain other coping mechanisms

[00:27:34] such as gambling and overspending

[00:27:39] and certain types of like financial behaviors

[00:27:42] that are a lot of times stemmed from some other sort

[00:27:47] of mental health or physical health related issues.

[00:27:53] It's all interconnected.

[00:27:55] So these are the five pillars of optimity

[00:27:58] and this is where we can help.

[00:28:00] There's actually a six pillar of prediction and longevity

[00:28:03] if we're going to talk about the science of it.

[00:28:05] It's really about the where you live

[00:28:08] because there's a lot of geographical factors

[00:28:11] that like for example, if you, you know,

[00:28:14] live next to a place where maybe it had

[00:28:18] a certain type of manufacturing plant or something like that.

[00:28:22] Like it really affects the cases of cancer.

[00:28:24] Like people that live in Asia have nose

[00:28:26] and throat cancers and stuff like that.

[00:28:28] We don't do that because it doesn't make sense for us.

[00:28:32] It doesn't, we're not trying to encourage people

[00:28:34] to move continents or move cities

[00:28:37] or move towns or do all that stuff.

[00:28:39] And some of the research that we've done across Canada

[00:28:42] really around the difference between rural

[00:28:44] and urban centers actually disproved

[00:28:47] some of the hypothesis that we had.

[00:28:49] There was a huge difference in like basically

[00:28:51] I guess the Colesnote version of that is in Canada.

[00:28:55] It's not super disparaging the difference between

[00:28:59] different postal codes or different, yeah, settings.

[00:29:05] So it's not that important for us in North America,

[00:29:08] I would say, but the other five pillars are

[00:29:11] and that's also within our control,

[00:29:13] like within not just the optimities control.

[00:29:15] I mean the users, the members control.

[00:29:18] So you can take really the rain for your own health

[00:29:21] and life optimization.

[00:29:24] Excellent.

[00:29:25] How do you see companies starting to work with that?

[00:29:30] Those five pillars and I guess fill in the holes

[00:29:36] in their existing programs.

[00:29:39] Yeah, I think the holes, it's actually kind of a matrix

[00:29:43] if I can unpack it kind of in a methodical analytical way.

[00:29:49] So I think the first thing is that these five pillars

[00:29:52] is very scientific, kind of our, this is our realm, right?

[00:29:56] This is decades and decades of research

[00:29:58] from different types of health programs all over the world

[00:30:02] and so on distilled into a codified kind of program

[00:30:06] with content that's available.

[00:30:08] So I don't necessarily think that's the company's job.

[00:30:11] That's why they like partner with us.

[00:30:13] They've hired us to do this for them and so,

[00:30:18] I do think that's kind of, they can leverage it

[00:30:21] and that's where I feel like we fulfill a particular purpose

[00:30:24] for them, which could be, hey, we want our people to belong.

[00:30:29] Can you do something along these pillars

[00:30:31] that make sense for the different populations,

[00:30:34] different generations of people that we work with, right?

[00:30:38] So on the opportunity,

[00:30:39] we have six generations of people.

[00:30:41] So it's different for someone who is in their early 20s

[00:30:44] and maybe they're really into the gym

[00:30:45] and the physical health part of it

[00:30:47] and the financial health part of it is really around

[00:30:49] like budgeting and learning to do the first,

[00:30:52] how do you not buy takeout every day

[00:30:54] and be able to eat nutritionally well?

[00:30:57] So their content is all personalized to them.

[00:30:59] So that's why our recommendation engine

[00:31:02] and the personalization of the content

[00:31:04] of the non one size fit all way that we work

[00:31:08] is very, very helpful for the corporate.

[00:31:10] So when the corporate thinks about rolling out a program,

[00:31:13] I think the most effective way to think about it

[00:31:15] is kind of the trifecta.

[00:31:18] The first one is, hey,

[00:31:22] is this going to be just a point solution?

[00:31:25] Is it just a point solution for let's say back pain

[00:31:29] or is it a point solution for diabetes

[00:31:34] and I think a lot of companies are really fatigued

[00:31:38] by point solutions that don't really triage up

[00:31:41] into anything and that's where when people talk about

[00:31:44] wellness program has low usage.

[00:31:45] Of course it's supposed to have low usage, right?

[00:31:48] Like if you're going to enroll something out

[00:31:50] for specifically heart, let's say,

[00:31:53] like heart surgery recovery in your population

[00:31:56] that maybe there's only two or three people that have it.

[00:31:59] Do they need it?

[00:32:00] They absolutely need it,

[00:32:01] but you're not expecting 80, 90% of your people

[00:32:04] to take advantage of that and you shouldn't.

[00:32:07] So that's why a for us and wellness operating system

[00:32:11] like ours we connect into all these different others

[00:32:14] third-point party solutions and we allow them to access them

[00:32:18] and then the company doesn't have to buy, you know,

[00:32:20] 1000 seats of the heart disease or the cancer prevention.

[00:32:25] Like that's actually a huge one that we do

[00:32:27] because you do want everyone to be on cancer prevention

[00:32:30] but you don't want them to go down.

[00:32:31] Like very few people are going to have go through

[00:32:33] the cancer journey.

[00:32:34] So you want to give them the best in class program

[00:32:36] but you don't want to buy it for, you know,

[00:32:38] all of your people.

[00:32:39] You just want to buy the prevention part of it.

[00:32:41] So opportunity does a prevention, the assessment

[00:32:43] and then we only triage the two, you know,

[00:32:46] two to 3% that really need it into this high quality

[00:32:50] and we have the partnerships already established

[00:32:52] with a lot of the best in class

[00:32:54] North American solutions, right?

[00:32:56] It's for diabetes for heart disease for cancer

[00:32:59] and so on.

[00:33:00] So I think that's kind of the first part.

[00:33:01] Like what job does it do?

[00:33:02] Does it help triage the right people?

[00:33:04] Does it assess everyone?

[00:33:05] Does it help kind of organize the work,

[00:33:12] the role that the employer has in the overall health

[00:33:16] of finding someone like my mom

[00:33:18] and treating them and doing that in a timely manner.

[00:33:20] So I think that's kind of the first bucket.

[00:33:24] Moving on to the second bucket maybe just quickly

[00:33:27] is the, if you think about the, for the HR,

[00:33:32] like they're not health experts, right?

[00:33:35] Like they're not, so they want to be able to have

[00:33:40] the right solutions maybe for virtual care

[00:33:42] or the right solutions for the benefits,

[00:33:44] the right solutions for all this

[00:33:45] and they want to be able to do the reporting accordingly.

[00:33:48] So when you look at optimally,

[00:33:50] we actually have spent quite a bit of time

[00:33:52] building up the reporting,

[00:33:54] the more strategic reporting, the data reporting,

[00:33:56] the things that they need from not just the HR leader level,

[00:33:59] but also a company executive level, right?

[00:34:02] Because we're seeing more of that in leader scorecards

[00:34:05] where an improvement in health and wellness

[00:34:07] is also good for business, right?

[00:34:10] So I think that's really good.

[00:34:12] And it's really, in that pillar,

[00:34:14] it's really about kind of the dollars in cents

[00:34:16] and the ability to keep people

[00:34:18] while keep your star sports players on the field healthy

[00:34:23] and longer or not injured.

[00:34:25] So, and this also reduces the cost of claims

[00:34:28] and the cost of insurance and stuff like that.

[00:34:30] So kind of the reporting aspect of it,

[00:34:32] you must have a platform that is kind of built for that

[00:34:35] and understand that.

[00:34:36] And I think, you know,

[00:34:38] that's where our 10 years of experience really helped us

[00:34:41] because I would say in the first year, one, two, three,

[00:34:45] we were really focused on kind of the user experience.

[00:34:47] The reporting wasn't really quite there

[00:34:49] until we had the chance to partner with over 100 employers

[00:34:52] and kind of get that strategic learning about

[00:34:56] what does that really, how does that fit into the world?

[00:35:01] I'm curious what you said about the executive leaders

[00:35:05] and that being part of their scorecard.

[00:35:08] Can you explain a bit more about that

[00:35:10] than what you're seeing some of the trends?

[00:35:12] Yeah, for sure I can.

[00:35:14] But before I do that, maybe just for completeness.

[00:35:16] Sorry, I'm like...

[00:35:17] Yes, yes, my apologies.

[00:35:19] In the last...

[00:35:21] Kind of in the trifecta, the last part of it is really about

[00:35:25] is it really refreshed?

[00:35:27] Right?

[00:35:28] Like is this something that you can put in there

[00:35:31] but every year after year, it's going to have the longevity

[00:35:34] and it's going to be not just the fad.

[00:35:36] It's not just a thing that like...

[00:35:39] For example, Netflix, right?

[00:35:41] Like go back to Prime or Disney.

[00:35:43] Like are they always rolling out new series

[00:35:45] and are they updating the content?

[00:35:47] Is it continuously engaging?

[00:35:49] Is it of good quality?

[00:35:51] And I think that's also something when people look at platforms

[00:35:54] you should think about is it kind of a platform that they built

[00:35:57] maybe a number of years ago and they invested a good time

[00:36:00] but now it's been sold to like a PE company

[00:36:02] or like a company that's no longer investing in it

[00:36:05] and it's kind of stale

[00:36:08] so that you...

[00:36:10] Maybe it does have some reporting and they have a lot of history

[00:36:12] but they're not actively investing in making it modern

[00:36:15] because in the end your employers are consumers, right?

[00:36:20] They're users and consumers are fickle

[00:36:23] and they want the latest and the greatest

[00:36:25] and they understand so even along all those five pillars

[00:36:28] like they want to understand,

[00:36:30] oh okay now Peter Adi has spoken on Outlive.

[00:36:33] It talks about code plunges and all these things

[00:36:35] like how does that work?

[00:36:36] You want them to be able to find that information

[00:36:38] in your own system or...

[00:36:42] Yeah, it's so dense.

[00:36:44] So I actually really, really love it

[00:36:46] because yeah, I had dumped into him anyways

[00:36:49] this is a long story but long story short

[00:36:51] this still really dense scary information

[00:36:54] like health and financial wellness information

[00:36:57] into digestible updated fresh takes

[00:37:01] that the people can use year over year

[00:37:05] and that they know that

[00:37:07] like we're continuously plowing resources

[00:37:11] and people and thought into refreshing that

[00:37:14] because we see this as a nevergreen platform.

[00:37:17] So those are the three, kind of the trifecta

[00:37:19] of how I interact with some of our client leaders

[00:37:26] because I know you have this leadership reporting question

[00:37:29] so about how they need to...

[00:37:31] Yeah and that brings us back to the leadership scorecard.

[00:37:37] I'm curious to see what you're seeing

[00:37:40] at that executive level around accountability for well-being.

[00:37:46] Yeah, it's evolving for sure.

[00:37:49] I think it's going to get better in the next three to five years.

[00:37:53] I feel like in that scorecard it's almost in the same era

[00:37:56] where I saw Fitbit and the rise of Apple Health.

[00:38:02] It's building.

[00:38:04] So I see the version one version 1.5 of these things

[00:38:09] because I think it came from two parts.

[00:38:14] The first part was like I've worked with this county in Ontario

[00:38:20] and their costs were crazy.

[00:38:23] So through three years it doubled.

[00:38:26] They're just their whole benefits cost or insurance stuff.

[00:38:32] Their average age was also like 53.

[00:38:35] So you're basically working with a lot of people

[00:38:39] that were like my mom that needed resources

[00:38:43] or had some sort of chronic condition

[00:38:47] or had something or going into it.

[00:38:50] So it was challenging for them.

[00:38:53] So leadership had pressure maybe in the second bucket

[00:38:56] that we talked about, which is the costs are going out of control.

[00:39:01] We need to get on top of it.

[00:39:03] We need to create a program that helps us assess the people,

[00:39:09] triage them into the things that they need in an SOS mode,

[00:39:12] but also does work in prevention

[00:39:14] and stopping it from stopping further bleeding, right?

[00:39:18] Cauterize the current thing and then stop the current bleeding.

[00:39:21] So I think it started there.

[00:39:24] So many people, I think most organizations,

[00:39:27] especially if they have rising costs,

[00:39:30] have that in their key things that they must address

[00:39:36] within leadership and also within HR budgets.

[00:39:40] So that's kind of easy.

[00:39:43] But we also see during...

[00:39:47] I mean, I'm a technology company and based in Toronto.

[00:39:53] So people are competitive.

[00:39:55] So when you want to hire and between the different things,

[00:40:00] the best employees value places where they belong

[00:40:04] and they value places that not just have good insurance.

[00:40:08] That's kind of almost like basic maslos.

[00:40:13] Like, of course, you have that.

[00:40:15] What else do you have?

[00:40:17] And in the past, people are like, oh, look at our fancy gym.

[00:40:21] Google offers lunch.

[00:40:24] It's free lunch for everyone, but pandemic stopped that.

[00:40:27] So how do we find other ways?

[00:40:29] So we almost challenged them and also even very...

[00:40:33] Facebook was so cash-rich that they were able to do whatever

[00:40:38] in terms of benefits, but then with the tightening

[00:40:42] and what's going on with the market,

[00:40:45] everyone got kind of somber about the overall cost

[00:40:48] of each employee.

[00:40:50] So people thought about, okay, it's not really just about adding

[00:40:52] benefits, it's about optimizing and making more efficient.

[00:40:56] Like how do you create more efficient ways to do that?

[00:40:59] So I think that's where the scorecard is starting to really

[00:41:02] take shape.

[00:41:04] The version one of it is like, what solutions solve

[00:41:08] the current problem?

[00:41:10] What are some of the KPIs we want to track around that?

[00:41:12] Maybe it's around just communication, right?

[00:41:15] Gone are the days where you can put in point solutions

[00:41:17] that have 2%, 3% engagement and be okay with that.

[00:41:22] So that's definitely a huge thing.

[00:41:24] So I would say if any company is serious about this,

[00:41:27] that number needs to be above 20%, 30%.

[00:41:30] And that's really hard because even when the messenger

[00:41:33] platforms are coming out, like the Microsoft teams

[00:41:36] and stuff like that, it was hard to get over 30%

[00:41:40] of the employees to adopt that.

[00:41:42] So you have to get into...

[00:41:45] You really have to think about a way to communicate with them.

[00:41:48] And we're proud to say that out of all of our clients,

[00:41:52] we've never had a client be under 30% adoption.

[00:41:55] So we actually have a satisfaction guarantee that way

[00:41:57] because we're pretty confident in our rollout strategy.

[00:42:00] But I think that's one of the key criteria now

[00:42:03] in reporting.

[00:42:06] And then the other thing is like, hey,

[00:42:08] a lot of wellness tool talk about value on investment

[00:42:11] and whatever.

[00:42:12] And that's for people that can't talk about ROI.

[00:42:14] So let's talk about real ROI,

[00:42:16] like what are we helping people do?

[00:42:18] Is it really truly delivering assessment value

[00:42:23] and are you getting people to do their health risk

[00:42:25] assessments?

[00:42:26] Are you actually getting the numbers that you need

[00:42:30] for diabetes prevention, heart disease, cancer screening,

[00:42:33] like all these things?

[00:42:34] Like be able to report that in a true way

[00:42:39] that a scientist, right?

[00:42:41] Someone in finance can look at and say, yeah, it makes sense.

[00:42:45] I think it's a real discipline.

[00:42:48] And we do that with a click of a button as well.

[00:42:51] So we kind of take on a lot of the work

[00:42:53] and that's really nice.

[00:42:54] And I think the third part,

[00:42:56] and we're seeing some inbound from Australia,

[00:42:58] people are aspirationally also thinking about like as leaders,

[00:43:01] you know, sometimes they get even paid

[00:43:04] on how the employees feel about working here,

[00:43:08] that sense of belonging, coming back to that sense

[00:43:10] of belonging and that sense of wellness.

[00:43:12] Like how do I feel as part of this team?

[00:43:16] And I think we can report on that too because over 92%

[00:43:19] of our clients have said that our programs

[00:43:24] have helped raise their employee ratings

[00:43:28] of the company and how they feel connected

[00:43:31] to the brand and the leadership

[00:43:33] and how they're investing in their people.

[00:43:35] So I think that's really important

[00:43:37] because then you can add that into your own engagement surveys

[00:43:40] and be able to like have that fit

[00:43:42] into more of a leadership scorecard.

[00:43:45] Yeah, so I'm excited to see like version two's

[00:43:48] and threes of it because we can tweak together

[00:43:52] what that looks like for different industries, right?

[00:43:55] Because right now it's kind of across all the different

[00:43:58] industries that we work with.

[00:44:00] Yeah, and you're probably working with fairly progressive

[00:44:04] companies and you summed up what I see as a sea change

[00:44:09] happening in the corporate world where the old mindset

[00:44:15] around wellness at the executive level was these are perks

[00:44:20] and yeah, theoretically we know it improves performance

[00:44:23] but we just see them as line item costs.

[00:44:26] And it's like, I guess the subtext in the executive's mind

[00:44:32] was hey we're not running a country club here.

[00:44:35] We want all these, we want people to have a nice experience

[00:44:40] but we need to solve some real problems.

[00:44:42] This cost center is exploding

[00:44:45] and we're seeing a huge turnover and and and and

[00:44:50] all these different challenges or fires in the business

[00:44:53] that need to be addressed.

[00:44:56] So many of them can be addressed through improved

[00:44:59] well-being of employees and I love the fact that you're

[00:45:03] saying, you're starting to see at the senior level

[00:45:06] that mindset of hey this is let's take a strategic approach

[00:45:11] to improving well-being and addressing these issues

[00:45:16] that's measurable predictable ROI and that we can start

[00:45:20] to say yes we now we can invest confidently in these areas

[00:45:24] knowing that we have direct control or pretty close

[00:45:28] to direct control over producing outcomes.

[00:45:31] Would you say that is a decent summary or did I miss the bill?

[00:45:36] I think it's a good summary.

[00:45:38] Yeah, absolutely agree with you.

[00:45:40] And I also want to give credit to trailblazers

[00:45:45] like yourself people who are so into fitness and athletics

[00:45:52] and I find that that was kind of when I looked at

[00:45:57] you know the original generation of health and wellness products

[00:46:01] I mean it's not even like participation.

[00:46:04] I love what they do, you know like the iconic characters

[00:46:08] of the 80s.

[00:46:09] I feel like it's really athletes that were leading the way

[00:46:13] and I want to just give kudos to that because that's just

[00:46:16] super aspirational and I think that really created this

[00:46:20] the first 5-10% of people being like okay like health is not

[00:46:25] a hobby right it's something we must do.

[00:46:29] And then I see my role, I'm not an athlete like I played

[00:46:33] you know high school volleyball at best like I'm you know

[00:46:36] I'm five foot four I'm like a little like I'm you know

[00:46:39] I'm not a very average very average right like I'm an average

[00:46:44] person that think like I but what I have is I'm hugely analytical

[00:46:52] and I have huge access to data.

[00:46:56] So I just look at these common threads of what does it take

[00:47:00] to help people live well be happy be fulfilled in right maybe

[00:47:07] live up to 100 years lived into the quality that the blue zones

[00:47:11] have and sometimes it is not about running actually I can tell

[00:47:15] you it's not about running a marathon right it's not about

[00:47:19] extreme like mountain planning like it's not about that

[00:47:22] it's really about taking small steps every day on micro habits

[00:47:27] like and it's also not 10,000 steps so there's a lot of

[00:47:30] really amazing science is really around 7,000 steps you

[00:47:33] just get yourself over that which is too little 15 minute

[00:47:36] breaks that you totally want to take and it's about connecting

[00:47:40] with someone that you care about once a day one person

[00:47:43] that one person makes is going to make your day it could be

[00:47:46] a barista it could be your neighbor that you say hi to

[00:47:49] it could be a work friend that you go on this mini like

[00:47:52] little side tangent not work related conversations about how

[00:47:57] you slept how much water you drank what you ate you

[00:48:00] know like that that's all it takes so it's all these micro

[00:48:03] little things and I think that's where it's exciting because

[00:48:06] these micro habits and micro activities is super accessible

[00:48:09] across 100% of the population and and that's going to what's

[00:48:15] it's going to lift everyone up in terms of longevity and

[00:48:20] overall assessment and so on.

[00:48:23] So I think that's kind of you know we needed the trail

[00:48:26] blazers and then now we have these massive pools of data from

[00:48:31] our smartphones and iPhones and like we have this democratized

[00:48:35] tool of apps and mobile phones and wearables for those

[00:48:39] people that want to invest further into themselves and

[00:48:42] self tracking.

[00:48:44] And then I think the next generation would be things that

[00:48:46] like are really well supported through layers of rewards

[00:48:51] right so from the government like rewards from the

[00:48:54] government rewards from communities amazing stuff that

[00:48:58] employers can do it's really kind of it takes a village to

[00:49:02] reward this type of behavior and even our health care system

[00:49:05] right going into more of a value based care system then

[00:49:08] it really aligns all the incentives towards people taking

[00:49:11] these tiny little steps that make their life better.

[00:49:15] Yeah, I love that so many areas we could go down.

[00:49:20] Comments about the athlete side and we'll say one of

[00:49:23] the biggest misconceptions I hear from people is they say

[00:49:27] I'm not an athlete and I always say whether you think

[00:49:31] you're an athlete or not.

[00:49:33] You are and we're all competing in the sport of life.

[00:49:36] We're humans competing in the sport of life and when we

[00:49:40] start to think a bit the way athletes do you can

[00:49:45] becomes much easier to improve your performance.

[00:49:48] You mentioned the micro habits and everything like that

[00:49:51] and athletes are data driven.

[00:49:54] They measure, they track, they improve and whether you

[00:49:59] don't have to be an Olympian but if you are tracking how

[00:50:03] much water you're drinking each day and being consistent

[00:50:07] with it you understand why you need to drink a certain

[00:50:09] amount of water how it's going to benefit you.

[00:50:12] Those basic foundational tools are at your disposal

[00:50:16] and having the right way and an easy way to track it

[00:50:21] without spreadsheets and all the engineers out there

[00:50:25] are going to love to do that but not everyone does.

[00:50:28] So when you have an easy way to build those foundations

[00:50:32] into your life then you start to see when things

[00:50:35] go sideways and those are future predictors

[00:50:40] or predictors of future health implications.

[00:50:43] If you're not drinking water, you're not sleeping well

[00:50:46] all these things if they start to go off track

[00:50:51] when you have the tracking ability and you can look

[00:50:54] at the data and say oh yeah I need to

[00:50:57] risk here and if you don't do anything for years

[00:51:02] then you're going to have more serious health

[00:51:04] outcomes than you would if you're doing it

[00:51:08] and tracking it in the moment.

[00:51:10] Yeah and that's exactly where we see our role which is

[00:51:13] the background risk analytics about people that are

[00:51:18] maybe they're not even aware that they're at you know

[00:51:22] they're at risk and you know they've been just

[00:51:25] as a product of being trapped in their own homes

[00:51:28] and the pandemic and so on are doing two to

[00:51:31] three thousand steps they don't know all these things

[00:51:33] everything from blood clots to actual like real

[00:51:37] like issues so we get them to do these like assessment

[00:51:41] measurement on movement and flexibility and fall risk

[00:51:45] because fall could be a huge killer for anyone over

[00:51:49] 60 so that's really really important but it's

[00:51:53] even a huge inhibitor for like you know for

[00:51:56] for people like myself like I took a fall

[00:52:01] during my second pregnancy and it took me a

[00:52:04] really long time to heal and that created a lot of health issues

[00:52:07] so I think all this that we see that as our role

[00:52:11] the to do the assessment to help people on a journey

[00:52:16] of recovery through small little things that they can do

[00:52:21] and then also to link them to best in class

[00:52:24] like disease specific journeys around specific things

[00:52:27] like obesity, hypertension all the high cost health issues.

[00:52:33] And I'm conscious of time I know there's so much more

[00:52:37] we could talk about I would be remiss if I didn't ask

[00:52:41] one last question and looking ahead especially over

[00:52:45] the past year or so with the exponential adoption of AI

[00:52:49] how does that how do you see that fitting into

[00:52:52] the future of health well-being

[00:52:55] and I guess on the corporate side particularly.

[00:52:58] Yeah, yeah it's so funny.

[00:53:02] I'm so we're definitely using parts of AI for to handle

[00:53:06] the personalization that we do to handle the

[00:53:09] recommendation so we've been doing that for a long time

[00:53:12] even before like we started this really in.

[00:53:17] Like eight years ago so so that the recommendation engine

[00:53:20] has always been built and Netflix actually published

[00:53:22] how they built the recommendation engine so ours is very similar

[00:53:25] to that.

[00:53:27] So I think there's versions of AI that we already use

[00:53:30] but generative AI which is what is catching on right now

[00:53:34] is also very exciting because it can create these possibilities

[00:53:38] and we actually have little resources where we tell people

[00:53:42] say hey like ask for complexity like make me a like a vegan

[00:53:46] recipe and give me a meal plan for the next seven days

[00:53:50] so that's awesome because I did that as part of my habit

[00:53:53] practice and it's something that we reward on

[00:53:55] optimity but now you have a tool that does it literally

[00:53:58] in two minutes.

[00:54:00] That's amazing like instead of me spending half an hour doing

[00:54:02] it every Sunday it takes me two minutes and I just have to tweak

[00:54:05] it so I think that will become a next set of little features

[00:54:08] that we will introduce and we're betaing them so we have

[00:54:11] you know really really amazing beta community that you can

[00:54:14] access it so if you're out there you know you can download

[00:54:17] the opportunity app and get on a beta community.

[00:54:20] I think that's the next set I think the third set which

[00:54:23] is really we gotta be very careful is

[00:54:27] AI's

[00:54:33] work like direct work in healthcare and I'm

[00:54:37] excited for all the regulation and

[00:54:41] basically governance of what that is because I do think

[00:54:45] that health is really important and my real stance is that

[00:54:49] like AI you know kind of the technology version of it but

[00:54:52] our body is like AI too but it's like ancient

[00:54:56] intelligence right we were billions of years of

[00:55:00] evolution your body really knows how to heal and knows all these things

[00:55:04] so I would you know ask people to really be more

[00:55:08] intuitive and be in their own bodies and trust that

[00:55:12] as much as

[00:55:16] what right like trust the ancient intelligence that

[00:55:20] I want to move I want to go outside I want to eat well I want to drink water I want to sleep

[00:55:24] like if you feel like sleeping please go sleep you know like that type of stuff

[00:55:28] versus sometimes the crazy

[00:55:32] AI hype because it's not fully tested yet so use it as a

[00:55:36] tool don't use it as a rule.

[00:55:40] Love that, that will be a quote I'll definitely use for sure

[00:55:44] Jane thank you so much it's been

[00:55:48] an absolute honor to have you on the podcast where can people

[00:55:52] find you obviously the optimity but where else

[00:55:56] Yeah they can find me out in different communities

[00:56:00] trying to help them with their health and wellness

[00:56:04] you can connect with me on LinkedIn just look for Jane Wang

[00:56:08] optimity there's a lot of Jane Wangs out there but only one that's

[00:56:12] doing this health and wellness engagement work

[00:56:16] and of course reach out to my team I have an amazing team

[00:56:20] you know they're mostly based in Canada

[00:56:24] and you just have to email engage at myoptimity.com

[00:56:28] or find us on any social media at my

[00:56:32] optimity and they will be happy to help you regardless if you're a client or not

[00:56:36] wonderful I'll make sure those links go into show notes

[00:56:40] thank you again Jane it's been an absolute honor

[00:56:44] the honor is mine stay well