HR, We Have a Problem - Stabilizing teams in high-change environments as a competitive advantage.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the HR Huddle podcast presented by Sapient Insights Group, the ultimate resource

[00:00:09] for all things HR. It's time to get in the huddle.

[00:00:21] Hello everybody. Welcome back to the HR Huddle. I'm your host Terry Zipper, CEO and managing

[00:00:26] partner at Sapient Insights Group and I'm back for another exciting episode of HR We Have a

[00:00:32] Problem. This is the show where we break down the big and most relevant HR issues of the

[00:00:37] day. We help you make sense of what they mean and we talk about what you might do about

[00:00:42] them. Joining me today is Carolyn Troyham. Carolyn is president and CEO of Leadership

[00:00:49] She's been in this business for ever 25 plus years and as many of you in HR, she gets involved

[00:00:56] in a little bit of everything. She's worked in a lot of different areas. She's held executive HR

[00:01:02] roles at some high tech firms. She's done rewards consulting at Mercer in a prior life,

[00:01:08] which is where we first met and I won't mention how long ago. Welcome Carolyn. I'm excited

[00:01:15] to have you on the show today. Oh Terry, it's so great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah,

[00:01:20] I don't mention how long ago that was but I know. It seems like another dimension,

[00:01:28] another world, right? I was reminding my husband earlier. I said, hey Carolyn's going to be

[00:01:33] on the show today. Remember, she used to work with me at Mercer when she was in Detroit.

[00:01:40] Remember we had dinner with her in San Francisco? He's like, oh yeah, of course.

[00:01:44] Remember Carolyn. Another time, another place. You and I have been having conversations lately

[00:01:52] and talking about all sorts of things. People from leadership, coaching to compensation

[00:02:00] and building teams as well as staying ahead on tech. It's another story. From our last

[00:02:06] conversation, I realized I really hadn't talked much on this show about team effectiveness

[00:02:12] and this has become even more important and challenging given today's work environment.

[00:02:18] So I was hoping that we could talk about building effective teams today and

[00:02:22] even how to be an effective team member. Does that sound like a good plan to you?

[00:02:27] I love it. It's my favorite work I get to do so yeah, let's do it.

[00:02:31] Awesome then let's get into the huddle. So I know you've been delivering a lot of projects

[00:02:38] very recently in building teams and a lot of people like to talk about team effectiveness,

[00:02:44] but I'm not sure. I think if you ask them to define it, I think they might struggle a bit.

[00:02:50] It tends to be one of those things that depends on the environment and the culture and the work.

[00:02:57] While many people may not be able to define it, they know it when they see it.

[00:03:02] They know a good team when they see it. Can you just give us your thoughts on that?

[00:03:07] What are some of the common characteristics of a team that you've seen and how you might define

[00:03:15] team effectiveness? Yeah, I mean team effectiveness. First, I think you have to start with defining

[00:03:22] what is the team because people might say well the team is like a thousand employees and we're

[00:03:27] all in HR together. So typically when I do the work with teams it's a relatively small group

[00:03:33] anywhere from three to 12 people and the key is that they meet on a regular basis and they're

[00:03:39] collectively responsible for results. Sometimes people say oh it's just everyone who reports to

[00:03:45] this manager, that's the team. They use reporting relationship and that actually you can get

[00:03:50] miss a couple important team members like maybe an HR member who sits on a leadership team who

[00:03:55] really is on that team with them trying to get to results alongside them or you might

[00:04:02] misconstrue a team. Maybe there's a leader who has lots of different areas of responsibility

[00:04:07] and those people come together but they are really not collectively working together

[00:04:10] toward results. They very maybe they own legal and HR or you know there's not a clear

[00:04:16] common goal that that team has. So I think the first in assessment I usually do is who's

[00:04:21] on the team, what makes up this team and to start doing this work I would say teams

[00:04:26] need to have worked together for at least two to three months so that they kind of get a

[00:04:29] sense of how it feels to work together, what the goals are. If you can you got to give some time

[00:04:36] for people to work together before they're like oh this is working, this isn't or this doesn't feel

[00:04:40] right but usually when I catch teams around the two to three month period they're ready to

[00:04:45] talk about team norms, understand what's working or not working, figure out if they have

[00:04:50] clear charters and objectives so that seems to be the best time and then the other question

[00:04:55] I usually ask is how stable is the team and this is really hard in high change environments

[00:05:01] and this is where I struggle you know every time more than half the team changes it's a new team.

[00:05:08] You can have one or two people change in and out and you can kind of get them up to speed like

[00:05:12] hey here are our team norms, this is the work we've been doing but when it's a massive change

[00:05:17] you almost have to treat it like a new team and so sometimes it can be hard for teams to

[00:05:22] get traction then on how do we work well together when they're in this really high change environment.

[00:05:27] Yeah you know people work on a lot of different teams and organization right I mean you're part

[00:05:33] of a department but at the same time you know if you're a comp person you know you're part

[00:05:39] of the comp team and you have your role there and then you're part of some cross-functional

[00:05:44] teams like working with recruiting or working with department heads or even marketing for that

[00:05:50] matter like what's the average number of teams people are on and do they even think about it that

[00:05:56] way right because sometimes you think about a team as being well I'm going to go work on this project

[00:06:01] team to implement something versus I am on a team every day I'm part of a broader team with a

[00:06:10] large set of goals right so I was just thinking about that like you know is there an

[00:06:14] average number of teams people are part of and you know that kind of changes throughout their

[00:06:19] career right I agree yeah I think it also depends on your role too like some people may have a very

[00:06:27] specific role that they're doing and they're not really involved and maybe they're just on one team

[00:06:31] but when you're maybe a support group or you're in a company that has a matrix organizational design

[00:06:38] it kind of forces you to be on lots of different teams and for different timelines and I think

[00:06:44] you know one of the things that's interesting that I've been reading in some of the research

[00:06:48] is sort of like what is your main team yeah and I'm like does that exist anymore you know because

[00:06:55] I think people are on lots of different teams and I think the key is the length of time you're

[00:07:00] together like you might come together really quickly you have to you know quickly get to

[00:07:04] how are you going to work together as a team get feedback on how things are working but

[00:07:07] then you've disband yeah and so a lot of the teams that I work with are a little more

[00:07:11] permanent they're like working together over multi-year objectives and so team change takes time

[00:07:19] it's not something you can just go from dysfunctional team to highly performing team in a matter of

[00:07:24] three weeks like that just doesn't happen it's part of the change process so I try to work

[00:07:30] with teams that you know have sort of a longer term horizon but I think the reality is a lot

[00:07:36] of the work that we do in those teams can be kind of like you know shortened and best practices

[00:07:42] shared with smaller teams that maybe are getting together for just six or 12 months that that could

[00:07:46] work yeah but where you see the most productivity I think is where you're working with the same

[00:07:53] team over at least multi years and gives them time to practice the behaviors and build

[00:07:58] that muscle together yeah and talk about each other and how decisions remain as a team so

[00:08:04] it's an interesting so it tends to be if people that are part of the same department that are working

[00:08:10] toward a common set of goals for that department and they they kind of know what their accountability

[00:08:16] and models are yeah yeah when you when you look at these teams do you then often look

[00:08:24] like up through the organization like what's happening at the leadership level and

[00:08:30] is this whole concept of team effectiveness like shared at the most senior level like this is just

[00:08:38] such an important part of organizations these days and I I think there's still this challenge where

[00:08:46] people get to these higher levels in the organization and maybe haven't led big teams or

[00:08:52] don't necessarily have ideal experience or the right skills for that and it's it just seems so

[00:09:00] critical a component and if it's not being shared you know if there's no shared leadership around

[00:09:07] it to me it makes it hard for that team to do well yeah I think I'd say two things on that one

[00:09:15] is some of the most successful CEOs like understand that teamwork is a competitive advantage

[00:09:21] and that they sort of as they build their values as a company they sort of focus on that and say okay

[00:09:27] if we could be better at teamwork than our competitors we're going to make better decisions we're

[00:09:31] going to make decisions faster we're not going to get caught up in politics and slow down and

[00:09:36] so I think the best CEO is you always hear them talking about high performing teams how to

[00:09:41] build high performing teams because they know if they can do that better than the company that

[00:09:46] they're competing with they're going to win regardless you know they're going to create

[00:09:49] better products they're going to get them to market faster and so I think most CEOs get it I think the

[00:09:57] question I was thinking about this last night like why wouldn't you as a CEO to spend almost

[00:10:02] a lot of resources and time on this if you truly believe that yeah but I do think you know I've

[00:10:09] seen teams and many of the leaders I worked with worked at big companies where there are

[00:10:13] multiple cultures or it really is up to the team like you could have a leader who believes in this

[00:10:20] who's good at it and you have a team that really wants it and they can be high performing even

[00:10:26] in a dysfunctional organization is what I found yeah so I don't think it stops the team from

[00:10:32] saying we want to be the best team in our company and so we're going to spend time on these

[00:10:36] issues and we're going to try to get better and build that muscle as a team and some of the

[00:10:41] best companies I work for actually study those teams and they're like what are they doing differently

[00:10:46] why are they high performing what are they really trying to understand them so that they can

[00:10:51] replicate it across the company so they'll have you know one HR team had a small maybe two to

[00:10:57] three people that just focused on team performance that's all they did they studied the most high

[00:11:02] performing you see that at some of the other high performing companies doing that so I think

[00:11:07] I don't think it stops you if you feel like it's not on the executive radar if you have a really

[00:11:12] a leader who's passionate about this and a team that wants to figure it out

[00:11:16] now you can become a high performing team it doesn't really stop you but gosh just think of

[00:11:21] the results of everyone was doing that would be phenomenal you know what a fun place to work

[00:11:26] that's what I would yeah yeah what are some of the things that people are experiencing that

[00:11:32] cause them to say hey we need we need some help here like we need to figure this out because you

[00:11:39] know in order for us to achieve our business outcomes we've got to be operating on all cylinders

[00:11:45] and we're not what are some of those things that you run into the most that people say

[00:11:51] you know are the reasons their teams are not running effectively and they need help

[00:11:57] yeah I would say sometimes they don't know what the cause is but it just feels political

[00:12:03] there's a very low level of trust in the team so they can't really have effective productive

[00:12:09] debates on issues one of the symptoms is usually very boring staff meetings where nothing really gets

[00:12:15] said we might present something and the meeting ends and so what you think would be like oh what

[00:12:20] what a great team like you know they all get happy everything's good you know they must be happy those

[00:12:27] are actually some of the lowest performing teams because the reason why that's usually not happening

[00:12:31] is they either aren't committed to the goals or there's a very low level of trust and so the

[00:12:38] conversations are happening maybe in slack not in the meeting you know and so you see these symptoms

[00:12:44] that kind of pop up and usually people are saying god this doesn't feel good I'm not enjoying it

[00:12:51] I don't feel like my views are valued it's not a safe environment I don't have psychological safety in

[00:12:56] this team to really talk about what I want to talk about so you see what I would say is sort of all

[00:13:02] of these symptoms of a non-high performing team and then usually they're not getting results

[00:13:07] so they're frustrated yeah why can't we hit this goal you know it's not that hard

[00:13:14] we should be able to do this we're all smart people you know so yeah that's usually

[00:13:19] hear a lot of those stories and then you know you hear stories of what it feels like to be on

[00:13:24] a great team and that's usually where I start is let's tell all the stories of the great teams

[00:13:29] we've been on what were they like what were some great teams you were on to describe what they

[00:13:33] felt like to you yeah you know I feel like I've been on so many teams throughout my career

[00:13:41] but when I've been on a really good team and I love your you really focused on trust on this

[00:13:48] last one that was key because we trusted one another we knew that the things that we said if we didn't

[00:13:56] like something we didn't think it was going the right way or we wanted to disagree people were

[00:14:02] comfortable doing that and not feeling like they were gonna get backlash right it was like hey

[00:14:10] you know it didn't have to be insulting but you know you could say hey I don't know I'm

[00:14:16] not feeling it like let's can we think about this can we talk about this more can we think

[00:14:21] about a slightly different approach and when everybody's kind of excited about that or wants

[00:14:28] to hear other people's ideas they're not sort of set in this mindset where here's the way we've

[00:14:34] been told to do it and here's the way we're going to get it done I find it that trust

[00:14:39] and autonomy were huge on those teams like we had the autonomy to make our own decisions

[00:14:47] and yeah I mean we informed the leadership but we didn't have to be like we didn't have a mandate

[00:14:53] to say you got to do it this way it was here's what we need you to accomplish and it was up to

[00:15:00] us and that to me created this level of creativity in the group but it also it gave

[00:15:07] people the license to trust because maybe you know they didn't know everything right you couldn't do it

[00:15:13] by yourself right you needed other people and their expertise and I think if I can circle back to the

[00:15:21] beginning we we made sure everybody knew each other and they knew why they were in that group

[00:15:29] and what their specific skills were and what they brought to the table a lot of times

[00:15:35] you find people at you know I've gotten thrown into teams before where people don't know me

[00:15:40] they don't know anything about me they don't know why I'm there you know and yet you're expected to

[00:15:46] perform with this other group of people that you're all just trying to figure it out so you spend

[00:15:51] way too much time forming that whole forming norming storming whatever the the order is and

[00:15:59] you know I think there's better ways to sort of build the teams when you decide you need a team to

[00:16:05] do something very specific yeah well yeah you touched on so many things in the research one is

[00:16:12] there's a study done that shows that teams that meet in person only once

[00:16:16] are like five times more effective than the other team it only takes one meeting yes

[00:16:21] I think it's what you do with that meeting and you go back to this idea of trust and a lot

[00:16:26] of the research shows and if you look at a lot of the models it all starts with vulnerability based

[00:16:30] trust that if you share something about yourself something that maybe you're not good at or a lesson

[00:16:37] you learned in your career or I don't really I'm a little worried about this project I just got

[00:16:43] given you know anything like that and it could start with something easy like my first job

[00:16:47] and why I hated it or I loved it yeah those conversations going and then it's only until

[00:16:54] you get that trust level that you can actually move to the next level which is productive conflict

[00:16:59] which you talked about which is I feel like we could have the tough discussions as a team

[00:17:04] and out of that you end up getting very high commitment to the results so one of the things

[00:17:11] learned over the last couple years which was interesting to me is that this idea of not

[00:17:16] everyone has to agree they just have to feel heard so I can still commit it's you know I think

[00:17:23] Intel called it disagreeing commit so this idea like if you have trust and then you have these really

[00:17:29] productive discussions and debates then everyone's sort of committed even if they didn't agree to

[00:17:35] begin with that that was the path because I feel heard and get bored and sort of drive to those

[00:17:41] results and so I think it all kind of builds on each other but this idea of autonomy is also

[00:17:47] interesting the other thing that you find in high performing teams is that they take on a lot of

[00:17:55] the accountability you know for all of the results and less for the leader the leader does

[00:18:00] a little bit of it sort of making sure that the debate framework are you talking about the

[00:18:04] right issues is the team if the team split they make the call you know but the accountability

[00:18:11] comes from the team itself and saying yeah I see you're struggling can I could I send some

[00:18:17] resources over or I feel like this one way off the track can we talk about what's going on and it

[00:18:23] might not even be in their area like but that's sort of one of the hallmarks of high performing

[00:18:29] teams is they end up taking on more of the self-policing of accountability on how the team

[00:18:35] operates and getting results yeah oh yeah taking that because they have to have accountability

[00:18:40] for the whole thing right it's not if you just have accountability for your piece

[00:18:47] you're not going to care right so you really do have to have instill that overall level of

[00:18:54] accountability and I've seen that you know that is again when people are working remotely now

[00:19:00] and a lot of people have never met in person I mean I've seen major things happen when people

[00:19:07] meet in person yeah I had a guy that worked for me long time ago and oh my god just fabulous guy

[00:19:15] everybody loved him except this one client who he had never traveled to he'd never met in person

[00:19:24] I had multiple calls with them but it was his mannerisms on calls that they didn't understand

[00:19:31] because they didn't know him he had this tendency to like whenever he would answer a question he'd

[00:19:35] have this big sigh before he would answer the question and it came across on a phone call and not video

[00:19:43] as oh we asked a stupid question right oh yeah and so I said look we're going there next week

[00:19:50] we're just going on site we're gonna go and we're gonna work a couple days with this client on site

[00:19:56] changed everything right because that they sort of in addition to the other components they also

[00:20:03] sort of got to know him and his mannerisms and you know it's just it's little things like that now

[00:20:10] we have a little bit more of that with zoom mm-hmm but you know in the whole days when you just had

[00:20:15] had a phone call I mean there was so much unsaid you know body language and everything else that

[00:20:22] you just couldn't pick up on so I do think and I love that you that that's in one meeting

[00:20:28] like one in-person meeting has made a difference because I've seen that happen

[00:20:32] yeah that's pretty amazing you know and I think as people are redesigning their work models

[00:20:39] they're figuring this out right that a few model works but the team has to get together at least

[00:20:44] once a year like maybe quarterly you know spend some money on spend a little money on travel

[00:20:50] it will pay off in the long term right it does for teams yeah yeah so there's a lot of

[00:20:55] different approaches and frameworks and things like that out there you know how do you typically

[00:21:02] approach this like do you use a specific framework or different frameworks depending on the situation

[00:21:08] talk a little bit about your approach yeah I think it all starts with deep listening to the team

[00:21:15] and there's there's a couple ways that you can go about it one is you can use your engagement

[00:21:20] survey and have a team section and then use those results there are free surveys online

[00:21:26] the five dysfunctions of the team book which I love has a free survey that you can do or you

[00:21:30] can have a consultant come in and do the survey I personally love doing interviews with the team

[00:21:36] and sort of going through all of these different behaviors and having them give me the details

[00:21:40] what's holding them back yeah I just think it's just you have more of a back and forth you

[00:21:46] can ask follow-up questions and it's a similar methodology you're just able to get deeper into

[00:21:51] what's happening with the team so I also find that the team has to be equally part of the process

[00:21:59] and if they bring in someone to help I always have the team interviewing like it's not just the

[00:22:03] leader so the team has to feel like they own the outcome of the work as much as the leader does

[00:22:09] I think that's an interesting part of the process I like that yeah and you know I think there are

[00:22:15] different frameworks I think the key is you know if you can find like the five dysfunctions of the

[00:22:21] team framework I use they have data on thousands and thousands of teams so you can compare yourself

[00:22:26] to other high performing teams and if you have a very analytical group of leaders like maybe

[00:22:31] engineers they love that they're like where do we stack up like how no we're better at benchmark

[00:22:38] so just having you know you just have to get to know the team and are they very data oriented

[00:22:43] or they they really want to understand more in a deep way how they're doing it but I think having

[00:22:50] a very simple stepped process that kind of gets them through building trust and then having productive

[00:22:56] debates and then building commitment and then moving to like the like the highest level which

[00:23:02] is like taking accountability and what does that look like and a lot of teams struggle with

[00:23:06] that they they may get up to we can have good debates and we're committed but actually

[00:23:12] you know what they see as calling out their peer for not performing feels very scary still

[00:23:17] even when they can have the toughest of debates you know but that's where usually where I see

[00:23:22] even some of the high performing teams struggle so yeah it's a process and like typically I'll go

[00:23:27] in we'll work together for a month or two and then they'll work on some of the behaviors and

[00:23:31] I'll come back and re-interview or survey six to twelve months later and where are we you

[00:23:35] know because it's culture change takes time so that's sort of the process that I use and I think

[00:23:41] the key is the team is along for the journey I think too too many times the leaders try to go it

[00:23:46] alone you know like hey I've done this I know what I'm doing I'm just gonna like start implementing

[00:23:52] some of these practices to get my team to have better debates and that it feels safe for people

[00:23:58] which is great but I think if you sort of sign up the team to go along the journey with you

[00:24:04] and then they sort of feel ownership around the team culture more than just the leader

[00:24:08] yeah and I think that to me has been one of the major turning points is when the team becomes

[00:24:13] such a big part of it and it's not just the leader saying our team needs help and I'm here you know

[00:24:18] yeah yeah yeah it's a fun framework and I think you know it's something that people couldn't

[00:24:25] you know the framework that that Patrick Littrone created is very simple and so people understand

[00:24:32] it very quickly but it's like oh we should be good tomorrow on this this is like super

[00:24:37] and then they start worrying like oh this is harder than I thought okay wait a second how do I react to

[00:24:42] conflict and sort of understanding that and am I okay when people get all blustery even if you know

[00:24:48] how do I react to that so I think getting through each of the phases teams learn new skills and

[00:24:54] they have to practice those muscles and over time they get stronger and stronger and then they get

[00:24:58] some results and that's such a huge motivator for teams to be like we did it we could

[00:25:04] we had that we high-fived and yeah almost like there's another level that happens after that

[00:25:11] so yeah yeah well you know what I think as a team member it's okay to say I don't know something

[00:25:21] mm-hmm I let me go find out like I think sometimes we have a tendency in these groups to feel like

[00:25:26] we have to just say yes or say okay or mm-hmm and we leave people thinking we're gonna do something

[00:25:33] and then it doesn't get done it's okay to say I don't know it's also okay to phone a friend right

[00:25:39] in another department to say I'm trying to figure this out for my team I need help what are some of

[00:25:45] the other things you see like for me as an individual like what's my responsibility as

[00:25:52] a member of a team like how can I work on my personal team effectiveness yeah that's a

[00:25:58] great question so I think we all can like I said it's not just up to the leader like anyone

[00:26:03] could start this process I feel like I don't want to say hey I've got a great idea I think first is

[00:26:10] just practicing some vulnerability with your teammates even in one-on-one settings like sharing

[00:26:15] something about yourself or something you're struggling with or hey this is something I

[00:26:19] really want to work on this year could you help me I think it all starts with

[00:26:24] just some of those one-on-one conversations and then bringing it into the team meeting and

[00:26:28] saying hey this is a vulnerable moment for me but I really feel like I'm a little lost on how

[00:26:33] to go attack this and I really need everyone's help or I feel like I can do it but I'm down

[00:26:37] like a resource they just resigned yesterday I don't know how I'm gonna hit the school

[00:26:41] so I think the leader modeling it always helps but it can also start with the employees I have

[00:26:46] many employees who just said I just don't feel safe in our team environment and I want to do

[00:26:51] something about it and like they took it on their shoulders and they brought in diversity

[00:26:56] training for their team and they met with the manager and so you know I I would just say

[00:27:02] just don't feel like you're unempowered as a team member you can make a lot of change in your team

[00:27:07] even if you're not the leader so I guess that's my takeaway message for everyone yeah that's a

[00:27:12] that's a great word empower empowerment empowered I think it and what's interesting to me when

[00:27:19] you are on a team I think it's scary to ask for help because you think that everybody if you

[00:27:27] know your job you should know how to do that but I'm always amazed at when you ask people for help

[00:27:34] how willing people are to give it to you they love that you're asking them their thoughts

[00:27:41] their ideas or how they might do something that then can help you with you know what you're

[00:27:47] trying to accomplish so I'd say hey you know ask questions right and talk to other people

[00:27:54] about what they're doing be curious yeah because I think that can yeah yeah yeah I agree and I think

[00:28:02] you know it can be simple things sometimes people are like well I don't I want to show that I know

[00:28:07] my area it could be sharing or even for leaders sometimes this is hard like they've been taught

[00:28:12] their whole career never show weakness like this that's the right thing so some of this I just

[00:28:17] start like an off-site with you know what was a key learning you had in your career

[00:28:22] and the stories that these leaders tell are amazing like they didn't work out for them they had a bad

[00:28:27] boss they really struggled with containing their their anger at work when something didn't go well

[00:28:32] you know and they really worked on and so I think some of the best leaders I've seen that are also

[00:28:38] great coaches they bring those stories in like hey I've been in your shoes and I struggled with

[00:28:43] the same exact thing and it was tough you know like yeah like I got it right my whole career

[00:28:48] I never struggled so I think there's something to that particularly for the leader yeah just

[00:28:53] to me you know to show that it's okay to bring that to a one-on-one to bring it to a team meeting

[00:28:59] and sort of when they set that tone everyone can go okay it must be okay to talk about this stuff

[00:29:05] yeah yeah or I got fired from a job you know like all right like you know you think of your

[00:29:11] manager your leaders being sort of this person that's like nothing's ever gone wrong for them

[00:29:17] that's how they got there but right right it's kind of the opposite right I mean lots of things have

[00:29:23] gone wrong and that's how you deal with them that gets you to the next level yeah and the commitment

[00:29:30] that you get from your employees when you have those conversations is like a hundred times then

[00:29:36] like when I just think about the other outcomes of great teamwork and vulnerability based trust

[00:29:40] is that employee is going to follow you through the fire they are going to follow your next

[00:29:45] job your next team because they loved working with you and so you know you get this commitment to you

[00:29:51] and also to the company if they feel that from other teams as well and that's part of your company

[00:29:56] culture like wow that's a great place to work so yeah yeah amazing are you seeing I always ask

[00:30:03] everybody this question whether it's relevant or not you know AI is all the rage right now

[00:30:09] is AI playing any kind of role here in what you're doing or what you're experiencing from a team

[00:30:16] effectiveness perspective yeah it's you know it's funny when you were saying oh we should talk about

[00:30:21] AI and I was like dreaming over a cup of coffee yesterday like if I could have AI my team effectiveness

[00:30:27] work what would it do because I haven't really seen much to be honest yeah you know I think

[00:30:32] it's starting with meeting bots taking notes for the team members so they can truly be present

[00:30:37] and you know it's not like the woman that's always asked to take the notes in the meeting thank god

[00:30:41] so it's like that we're through that now the AI can take care of it but if I could design something

[00:30:47] I think if they're already if AI can already analyze and pull together meeting notes why can't

[00:30:53] it tell you how are you doing on productive conflict if in most meetings Sally never gets

[00:30:59] a word in you know like I just feel like there's that next step beyond meeting notes

[00:31:03] where it says hey score of productive conflict this month was nine out of ten good job team

[00:31:08] you know like I just I was just like what could AI do that would be helpful to the leader and the

[00:31:15] employees as they're on this journey trying to build these new muscles could it give them real

[00:31:19] time feedback about the quality of their meetings and how much productive conflict is

[00:31:24] going on I haven't seen that yet but I think I wouldn't be surprised if somebody's not doing it

[00:31:29] and I should know this if Stacy was on here she'd probably say oh yeah I know somebody who's doing

[00:31:34] that I mean even my I use otter as my note taker and interestingly enough so it now has a summary

[00:31:42] of the call so you not just the transcript and the summary is hilarious yeah because it you

[00:31:49] know because you're always like kind of just goofing around at the beginning of a call hey

[00:31:53] how's it going what happened to you this weekend and there's just it'll be this just really

[00:31:58] hilarious type stuff like so-and-so talked about getting booted when they broke their ankle and

[00:32:05] team effectiveness like it just sort of puts these things together that don't don't make any sense

[00:32:11] but it's getting better I've noticed it's really it's nice to kind of read the summary because

[00:32:15] I can see okay here's where we talked about x you know refer back to that area I'm just trying

[00:32:22] to get some more context for what we were doing but yeah it's it's learning it's doing more I think

[00:32:28] that'll be really interesting because I do think when you think about teams the team leader

[00:32:36] should be responsible for making sure that everybody is getting a voice right and not just

[00:32:44] letting people show up and not say anything on the calls we're actually we just launched our

[00:32:51] HR system strategy cohort and a big part of this is being in a cohort being part of a group that's

[00:32:59] going to learn together and learn from one another so it's going to be really interesting to sort of

[00:33:05] make sure everybody's talking and getting a chance to voice some things and I think that'll

[00:33:11] be challenging because some people just don't you know they're just a little bit more shy

[00:33:14] about voicing their thoughts or opinions so it'll take a little bit of massaging to get

[00:33:21] to get everyone comfortable on that and create that great environment for them right to have some

[00:33:25] help exactly yeah exactly uh yeah I think it's I think that we're just only scratching the

[00:33:30] surface I think there could be a big role it plays and team effectiveness particularly yeah

[00:33:37] about how meetings are run and who's talking and the level of conflict and good conflict

[00:33:43] that happened and maybe even saying hey there was no alternative idea presented to this you know

[00:33:49] how about I've researched the web how are three other ideas the team might want to think about

[00:33:52] I don't know like I'm just dreaming but I think there's some cool stuff on the way for teams I

[00:33:58] believe but yeah yeah and conflict is okay I think that's maybe you know one of the messages

[00:34:05] people need to hear it's okay to have some conflict and then and then resolving conflict

[00:34:10] is the thing I think that helps you get better at what you're doing so I'm sort of inviting in

[00:34:17] the conflict even when it's not there I think a great leaders I've worked with say what's the

[00:34:22] what's an idea someone played devil's advocate even if you agree with carolin who could be the

[00:34:26] best idea right like they create that that debate for the team and make it safe and I think

[00:34:33] that's the biggest misnomer is that high-performing teams there is no conflict it's actually

[00:34:38] the opposite but it's very productive and it's respectful and people feel heard and it's about

[00:34:44] debating ideas and you know you don't want to get into destructive conflicts where people are attacking

[00:34:49] each other like that's right right so I think we have a little bit of that going on in the world

[00:34:53] today yes we want to keep it productive just a little bit well this has been awesome like

[00:34:59] so one of the last questions I always ask everybody is what's one thing you can

[00:35:03] leave the audience with today that might help them work on their team effectiveness or the effectiveness

[00:35:10] of the team that they're in is there is there one sort of thing they could do tomorrow to get them started

[00:35:18] yeah I think that's great that that's how you end it I would say pick something that sparked your

[00:35:23] interest in this conversation and start a discussion with your teammates and just say wow this was

[00:35:28] super interesting listen to this podcast you know how do you think we're doing on x y and z

[00:35:35] and just start that conversation and get the ball rolling and get people excited to have those

[00:35:41] conversations of what it might feel like to be on a great team I think that's like an easy thing

[00:35:45] you can do and then you know and just be that feel like you're empowered to have those conversations

[00:35:52] that you're part of that team and and you want it to be a great team so yeah I think that's great

[00:35:58] yeah yeah and if I think if you're not feeling empowered figure out how to to get that feeling

[00:36:04] like talk to your manager right like I want to be more empowered I want to do more

[00:36:11] how can I you know what do I need to do to get there yeah I think that'll make all the difference

[00:36:17] I agree I agree yeah don't speak up if you don't feel like you've got a voice yeah well thanks

[00:36:24] carolyn for joining today this has been a great conversation I want to thank our producers brand

[00:36:30] method media group and our marketing team who will put all of this great stuff out there

[00:36:36] and thank you for tuning in that is all the time we have for this week's episode of HR

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