Swapcast with HR & Payroll 2.0 !

[00:00:00] Welcome to our podcast, It's About Payroll. We're your host Brian Eskabar and Walter William Duncan III, Whether you're new to the payroll game or season veteran, we have something for you. Welcome back folks to episode 1118. It's about Payroll. Today we have a special treat for everyone.

[00:00:26] We did a swapcast with the folks over at HR amp Payroll 2.0, Pete to the Yoccus and Julie Fernandez. What an awesome episode. We really hope you enjoy, but before we get into it, its a word from our sponsor. Summer has arrived and with it,

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[00:01:44] Welcome everyone to another episode of HR and payroll 2.0. I'm Pete Tillie Aquis and as always, I'm joined by the legendary Julie Fernandez. Welcome Julie. Thank you very much and I think people can already tell that we're doing something new. And for you guys special today.

[00:02:00] Yeah, we got guests and some folks I've been dying to have on. That's right. And not only are we probably do we have guests but we're in video, which yeah, normally are not. Yeah.

[00:02:13] And we'll be talking about a whole concept that I have been oblivious to in the swapping. The podcast swapping is a podcast. Yeah, so we are swapping with the it's about payroll guys. We're all swapping. We're all swapping with the podcast. We're all swapping with the podcast.

[00:02:31] Yeah, we got to meet for the first time at PayCon. I don't know Julie if you bumped into them. We did it at the party so we couldn't talk much. It was like a club right? Yeah.

[00:02:42] Hang out too much but it was great to see you guys man. I heard it was your first time. I got a lot of questions about that. But yeah, so welcome. Thanks. How was the show man? Thanks.

[00:02:55] Like why as the show is great, you know, one of the keys for us has just been consistency doing it every week when we started off. It was like two people downloading and, you know, me and me and Walt. You know. Yeah, we started off.

[00:03:08] It was an anchor right? Yeah. All right. We were the same way by the way. We were audio first. And we went audio for 40 some odd episodes and it wasn't until Gerard. Gerard told us early on you guys need to do video. Yeah.

[00:03:26] And we were just like, oh no. Like it was a whole another, what was like vulnerability that. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Taking off another clothing. Yeah. And you all don't have to worry about the hair. Yeah. Yeah. So, I got it.

[00:03:43] I had to get it right before we got on this episode. I was like, I got a look good. We're going to be on a video. Yeah. Do I work hat? Do I not wear hat? I don't know. It's not actually all those things.

[00:03:55] So, it's where it is. Wow. And this is cool. I'm congrats that you guys have done it. I think it will change the game for you. Yeah. You know, it definitely helps and getting the word out and folks like just seeing little clips

[00:04:06] and the content you can create from a long form video. I wish you all the best with it. It's so great to see other folks doing it. I've listened to your show and thank you. Like yeah. Oh, heck yeah.

[00:04:18] And one of the things I got from this and the you guys is he's like high energy and like Julie's calm as calm as could be just like comes in and smooths you out. There's that balance. It's like me. Yeah, it's like me.

[00:04:31] If you only knew the storm that's going on in my brain. Oh, man. It is a payroll and HR future storm is what's going on in that man. Good because I got some good payroll and HR questions for you. Okay. All right.

[00:04:43] Well first, we always ask our guests a question. We asked them how they got into payroll. Why they stay, but I want to start though and back up a little bit. And I want to hear the origin story on your show.

[00:04:53] How you guys met like tell me about that a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. We met what 2016. Okay. Yeah. 2016. Brian was the manager at one of the places that we both worked. And he I had came in for an interview and interviewed me.

[00:05:10] And ever since then, we kind of just clicked. That's cool. We talked about a podcast back then. Yeah, but we just never never materialized. Yeah. And a couple of years later, we would link back up and we were like, hey, man,

[00:05:23] we need to go ahead and start this and this for real. And that's kind of where it started from. I love it. I love it. Hey, look, it just you know, you need is a little bit of an idea.

[00:05:32] And I feel like I talked to people sometimes and they're scared, right? Like, I don't know. No one will listen. I'm like, just do it. Like, yeah, just put one after the other out there and people will. It'll eventually come and they do.

[00:05:42] And they have a bit of the same story, you know, like, what was wanted to work together? We've been across the table for me. Together, we've been like, you know, almost at the same company and then not again at

[00:05:51] the same company or in the same space and finally like, let's just do this. Yeah. Yeah, Julie has Julie has an agoshaidic for those that don't know. Julie has probably negotiated at TPI.

[00:06:03] They probably if I if I I don't know how the number but I would say that of the deals that I worked on the mega HR outsourcing deals at IBM and TCS that I that I solution most went 90 plus percent went through TPI for support.

[00:06:16] And almost every time we were we were working with Julie as the sourcing advisor. So that's why I call her the legendary Julie Fernandez. She truly is better. Better. There's a deal. For a new world now. So, let's go. Let's cool, man. That's cool.

[00:06:31] So let's let I want to start with some some how do you get in payroll? Yeah. Yeah. So, maybe we could maybe start with you. Okay. So unlike most people I actually chose payroll. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. You're unicorn my friend. You are. Yeah. So yeah.

[00:06:52] So I took the ads for App to go to military and I had a few jobs to they stole my score. I had a few jobs to select from and one of them was payroll. And the other one was I didn't really in the pill to me.

[00:07:05] I didn't really know anything about payroll at the time. I was just like, you know what? That sounds like a great job. I like numbers and stuff. So that's the job I chose and that's kind of my thing. Yeah, my story. What branch of service?

[00:07:17] I wasn't the Navy. Okay, I was the Navy. It's man. I actually worked in the first shared service center in the Marine Corps on a, you know, paid entitlement. HR records right? Yeah. And certifying people's pay. And so that's how I learned payroll as well. So interesting path.

[00:07:34] We both, yeah, but thank you for your services. Well, I appreciate it. What is like that? Why do you say though? Why do you say that? What's that? That act. It's like on that. I'm so fast. I stayed in it because I found that for me,

[00:07:50] it's the connections with the people. And at first I didn't realize that, but as I got more involved and more like more. Deep into my career, I realized that, you know, I loved being able to make sure that people are getting what they need.

[00:08:07] You know, and make sure that they're, they're lively. And it's not impacted by anything that I'm doing. So there's a lot of power that's in being in payroll on HR. And sometimes people don't realize that. And so like, it's not about like control.

[00:08:22] And that that, that terms of power. But for more so like being able to be impactful. Yeah. So that's kind of why I stayed in payroll. And it's been, I've been able to have a successful career.

[00:08:34] And ended up at this place now with Brian and with the podcast and doing our own thing and having everything that we have. So it's been a blessing. That's why I stayed with it. Well thank you. I'm pretty sure you are sticking around.

[00:08:48] Beyond the military probably helped with that. I know it's kept me in the game. But you know what's funny is people. I think that payroll is just this repetitive boring process. And the realities are so much action going on because yeah, the past, the process happens every day.

[00:09:02] There's some things that change about it here and there. But the reality of it is, is the organization is constantly moving and like a shark right? It's always swimming. It's always going somewhere and you have to be able to move with it.

[00:09:12] And I think that's what keeps payroll like action. It can actually impact if you will. So yeah, I love it. How about you Brian? How did you get into payroll? Why? Why aren't you sticking around? Yeah. Shoot, I guess back in O three. I think.

[00:09:27] So right when my first daughter was born. So yeah, right, right, about 20 years ago. Right before that, I graduated from college. And I took the long way around, right? I didn't go right up to high school. Yeah.

[00:09:43] Kind of worked first and was like, this is for the birds. I don't want to break my back. I was doing contract. My brother, so I had some entrepreneur would help. And that's what got me there. I used to do payroll for my brothers business. Okay.

[00:09:57] But we just had 1099 contractors. Yeah. You know, that kind of just submitted their invoices and now it was like, Oh, I had how many hours you worked and I cut the check to their business and, you know, called it a day. So I knew how to do math.

[00:10:11] And I thought that was payroll. When I graduated college, I was like, crap, what do I got to do something myself? I'm about to have my first child and just kind of like,

[00:10:21] all right, you know, you put in all those keywords on your resume and all the searches that back and there was no LinkedIn yet. It was just kind of, I think, monster.com was the biggest club. And right, it was like one or two others.

[00:10:34] So it was like get those keywords on your resume and payroll was one of them. And a company called me gave me a shot at being a payroll coordinator. And the rest is a career. The reason I stood really was because it's halfway through that career,

[00:10:53] I realized I was good at it and there's good. It's yeah, and it's like, it's a special fun. Right? Like, you know, I realized we're good at it. I was good at it and like we're unique in that manner. And that's what kept me in the game.

[00:11:07] And I think that's when when me and Walt just kind of decided to double down and say, all right, we're in on payroll. Yeah. And how can we build this, right? And we've been developing an app. We have an app for it and that's what got you.

[00:11:22] We're a long way from showing you. What's the app going to do with the concept? It basically manages exception payments. Oh nice. Okay. You know, you just see yep, but we've hit like brod blocks with the developers and things like that.

[00:11:36] So we started the podcast and then the podcast kind of. It kind of got took off and got some action in it. And we filled the gap right when no one was filling the, I mean, look at, look at content now and you look up authors.

[00:11:51] There's only two payroll authors right now that have written payroll books that aren't text books. Mm-hmm. And it's Anita Latink and Bart. Man, this is yeah. Yeah. And that's it, right? So like it's like, I would love to see you write a book in payroll space and Julie,

[00:12:05] like, like, put in like Bart said we all have a different angle and a different opinion that give on payroll. Yeah. So it's like I can't wait to that content is filled with like we're helping fill the gap. Yeah.

[00:12:19] And I love being a part of that and like, and Walt and I just found something where we didn't think we were. Yeah. And fell in love with that part of it, right? Yeah.

[00:12:28] And it's such a, it's such a cheat code for us because like doing the podcast makes us better at our job, doing our job, good, makes us better at the podcast. That's great, man. So yeah, I'm going to thank you. Yeah. We're going to go.

[00:12:41] You guys, we want to hear you know, our listeners want to hear about you all. Yeah. Yeah. You said that getting into a numbers thing can lead to a creative outlet, right? I mean, just to do everything. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Ladies first, Julie. Oh, no. Okay.

[00:12:57] So I went to school and got a French major. And I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just wanted to do international business.

[00:13:09] And, and then when it was time to get a first job, you know, the guys that called me had a consulting, a benefits consulting, benefits administration consulting.

[00:13:18] And, and then I did a research on the public and all they were really looking forward, kids with the highest grade point average is who had a personality and weren't, you know, me, girlfriend to interact and could lead some stuff.

[00:13:29] And so I fell into that HR consulting group essentially. And in the beginning it was building shared service centers when benefits outsourcing was kind of an early thing. And nobody thought you could actually do that stuff and share service center capacity.

[00:13:47] So building things like the GM National Benefit Center and the GM Retired, you know, really big, you know, for big companies. And very quickly a lot of my colleagues stayed in that kind of benefits circle.

[00:13:57] And I carried it through to the folks that were trying to do HR and payroll and talent and other things. In shared services and about eight years later, I went to the advisory side. And I've been working with client journeys ever since.

[00:14:10] So wow. So that's how I got here. The legendary. Why just say, oh, why do you say, you know, I stay because it's just such an dynamic space as you guys were saying, whether you're talking just payroll or HR and payroll. There, there is nothing templatized about this.

[00:14:28] You know, you can't rinse and repeat the same stuff for every client. Everybody is in a different place. They got a different way to get to their efficiencies and their ideal state. And to me, that's like, you know, I have that ADD of being able.

[00:14:42] I want to take, you know, 80 journeys a year and I just get to do that as an advisor and I love it. Yes, that's awesome. Yeah. So meet well, my story is actually very public last year. Last year at Denver, I gave a speech keynote about my career.

[00:15:00] And actually, I spent my entire career trying to escape payroll only to find that it was my superpower. It was like, you know, the fact that all the things great that we're hitting my career.

[00:15:10] So yeah, so as you heard, I started in the Marines. I went in the Marine Corps and when I, I did the same thing. I took the Asvab. And I thought I was going to be a grunt like everyone else at 0300.

[00:15:20] It was the Gulf War. I just assumed, you know, that's what Marines do, right? I didn't know there was anything else in the Marines. And so I didn't speak to any other recruiters.

[00:15:29] I just, the Marines were the first one to talk to me and I thought, well, shit, if I'm going to do this, I'm as well go the best one, right?

[00:15:35] So I did. And my recruiter looked at my scores. I've never forget this moment. He changed my life. He said to me, he said, you're not going, you're not going in the grunts like you're not doing that. He said, you're way too smart.

[00:15:47] You're going to do something different. He's had picked from this list. And I didn't know any better. So I just put down three things and it turned out that administrative MLS was where I landed.

[00:15:57] I was a service record book clerk in O-21. And what that did was is audited HR and data records. In what turned out to be the very first shared service center in the Marines, I had no idea what I was doing at 18. I got out.

[00:16:11] And I happened to go back to Florida where my grandmother was and where my family was. And it just so happened that the largest PEO in the United States was in my town. And I went to work for them.

[00:16:23] And I learned HR and PEO, we're all many, many small and medium sized businesses went through transformation with different new technologies we were upgrading to.

[00:16:31] And then found myself at the right-be-young age of 20, I don't know, seven or so, eight leading payroll transformation and shared service design for the Walt Disney company. And I did that for about three and a half years before I went into like big, big transformation, like Deloitte IBM.

[00:16:48] And then eventually found my calling really, and that's researching and advising and just championing this industry man. So yeah. That's awesome.

[00:16:56] But I never would have, I would have told you if you would have talked to me along the way, I would have told you I'm trying my hardest to escape this right? I thought that I was being typecasted, I'll never be a strategic HR leader.

[00:17:09] No one will take me serious, right? I even went and got an HR degree, I even got an MBA because I thought, you know, no one's got, you know, you look, let's be honest man. PEO has been treated less than for a long time. Yes.

[00:17:20] It's still going on. I've said this on this podcast, I'm payroll famous and I still feel it and I could show you ways it happens.

[00:17:27] I won't mention those because I think it would out some things but, but it's true and that's a massive systemic issue in this in this world that is holding a lot of organizations back.

[00:17:38] And a lot of that is perpetuated by way of ignorance and it's ignorance, not in disrespect, it's ignorance and not knowing. I'm thinking like, okay, we're asked to post a mild manner to you, so I'm just going to go, oh my god. This is my show.

[00:17:53] You want me to watch this? Yes, I love it.

[00:17:56] Listen, if someone's going to say it, it needs to be me and I don't care if it depends anyone because it's the facts and if it offends you then you're probably treating payroll like shit and you need to stop.

[00:18:08] Because you don't understand what you're really missing out on and it's just insanity watching some of these companies do what they do and limp along with these payrolls and then their people are burning out and they're stressed and come on man, it's just crazy.

[00:18:24] Meanwhile, there's this immense skill down there that's just being overlooked, you know, and data, but you know, yeah, I'll shut up. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's a perfect second. So, it's a perfect second. Try to take him under the table and it's not really paid.

[00:18:38] What, what, identify with that P, we have some little same ideas, some little same passions and thoughts, you know, talking points that you spoke on.

[00:18:48] Yeah, it's very real for us because there's been so many times where we haven't had a sea at the table when you should have had a sea at the table, right? Yeah. And so I totally agree with you.

[00:18:59] Yeah, man, I appreciate it. I appreciate what you guys do, man. Thank you for what you know.

[00:19:02] Well, I think the time is coming, you know, the job, the role has evolved dramatically from the time when it was you can run a calculator and calculate a rate times a pet, you know, rate them dollars to something that is exception based

[00:19:16] and so focused on all the intricacies that can go wrong and not all the stuff that automation takes care of. And so it's been like, you know, total flip flop of what you would think payroll is to what skills and capabilities people have to have today.

[00:19:35] And I just think it just, you know, the rest of the world has a cut up with the notion of what really has to get done to make payroll happen right.

[00:19:43] Yeah, you know, 2020 was I think a real punch in the gut for a lot of folks that had weak BCPD. Yeah, yeah, I think it's been what has been. Business continuity plan and data recovery right?

[00:19:56] I think there were a lot of companies that didn't take that serious and didn't have the infrastructure and got caught and really paid the price for a lot of in a lot of ways. So big way to call for sure.

[00:20:07] You know what as I look through, you know, so I really want to congratulate you and thank you for doing the payroll profession. And that's like, yeah, thank you. Thank you.

[00:20:16] How amazing is that for us as payroll folks because and by the way, this is like my go to when I need to talk about something on the show.

[00:20:25] We start to know what the pay news update and if I can't find anything fresh in the I go right back to this. It's so long like that I'm going to have I'm going to be on it for a while.

[00:20:36] Yeah, and not long in a bad way long in a really good way because it has such great information and one of the things that I've marked today was slide 10 10 and 11 right or yeah, the one that was well the one that was talking about how supported what where they are with technology.

[00:20:54] Yeah, you know, they're cautiously optimistic about the future and then there's another one about how like leadership is bought into payroll or not. Right, and we're still at that halfway mark or less than in our organizations like being actually behind us and you know.

[00:21:12] It's it's like exciting and scary all at the same time for payroll right Julie is laughing because you write you know because it's like wait a minute.

[00:21:21] Oh my gosh, look at all these cool things that are happening, but then you get and Julie probably sees it more than us that are kind of at one shop where these organizations don't have it.

[00:21:32] And they're like wait, what are you doing, so yeah I get to see if flavor of messed up you can possibly imagine and a lot of flavors of good too or at least we hope it's good by the end but oh yeah there's so many ways that things can be ridiculous still facts and time sheets over somewhere.

[00:21:51] You know we have I have vendors that I work with in some very long tail locations you know emerging marketplaces where there's very small or excuse me emerging markets where there are small populations normally of companies footprints and they will tell you often their biggest competitors actually sell.

[00:22:07] They're just replacing Excel a lot of times and not really going up against anyone in that location so that tells you something right there man there's a lot of payroll getting processed on itself.

[00:22:17] And it's exactly exactly yeah it's scary none of the technology pole are a year or two ago and that that was the the number one thing excel i use excel i use excel you know so it's crazy with that it really is it really is again.

[00:22:32] And I do exciting and scary guy will yeah I kind of speaks to you what you were talking about Peter about how there's still that that resistance to the change there's no resistance of doing things status quo and keep things as they were because people don't.

[00:22:47] I don't know they didn't necessarily don't want to progress yeah might just be to the point that there's just so used to doing what they've been doing for so long.

[00:22:56] Oh yeah well I think there's two big factors to Julie I'd love to hear your thoughts on this number one I think if it it's scary so don't sit on mess with it right especially if you're you've seen a Julie there's a lot of these organizations that bastardize something like a people soft and they are not going to let their hands off of it because they live this pain of customizing if you will.

[00:23:16] And the other thing is I think that happens payroll pays a success tax constantly and what I mean that is there they're they're put in a position to fail constantly here's the lowest lowest options here here here here's the least technology here's here's no resources we don't even know what you do we think you bookkeeping so we're going to give you minimal minimal help we are not going to invest in you.

[00:23:38] But then every week they pull the rabbit out of the hat and no one because they go like electricity they go the light switch and it comes on there's no problem.

[00:23:46] There's no problem so payroll pays for that what do you mean you need another system it's working fine. It's a it's a success penalty in a lot of ways and it's it's a really it's got to be a very miserable condon drum.

[00:23:56] You know in an organization that's unwilling to put money into or just not even money you read that report again it wasn't money they're asking for their asking for education they're asking for.

[00:24:05] Yeah, certainly technology would help but just give them some help there were losing a lot of people that's you know that's a whole other angle.

[00:24:12] But yeah two big issues I think so I have some fun you know some fun ways that I see those as I go across multiple clients who folks that are asking about things and might become a client at some point in time.

[00:24:23] The first is you know we're so we're so focused on getting things right like a hundred percent right in payroll it's like our DNA.

[00:24:29] Right and so so when you get a new process a lot of time to find that they're still doing the old one because they just want to make super super super sure.

[00:24:38] Yeah, and so the process doesn't change or you keep shadow processes or in many cases some of these large companies you would be surprised.

[00:24:47] They moved to their new cloud platform but they're free they're terrified of touching payroll so they just had the old engines sitting back there and they connect it to you know a work there in Oracle as a name your platform right your new cloud platform.

[00:25:02] And they have the legacy engine sitting back there performing all the same thing with the same limitations because it's terrifying to think about moving it.

[00:25:13] Especially when you don't understand it and you fear it right that's part of the problem HR has to start coming to the table and understanding what payroll does versus. You know assuming that they know better than payroll and then have no clue what they're doing.

[00:25:25] And yeah, it just doesn't it down down market so one that I've come across very recently which is just fun all kinds of fun to explain why you might not want to do this but.

[00:25:35] You have a company that comes into maybe one of your smaller market you know technologies like a pay whatever right name or whichever provider.

[00:25:43] And the client has been used to using like just a document like a form and a document workflow to do things and they're they don't they're not ready like they can't let go of that.

[00:25:54] So instead of taking the the basic capability of tracking your employee demographic data and then having that flow through to paying them you know they they bugger it all up and they do a whole bunch of things offline and then somebody enters or keys it back in to pay what you know to make.

[00:26:10] It's like why on earth would you ever do this this is crazy and it's a fear factor right or you know if you if one thing is wrong and a payroll person can explain it they're going to do it six different ways to make sure. This never wrong.

[00:26:25] Yes, I had a leader asked me recently how how do you so how do we get the payroll people into payroll and the employees into payroll and I was like.

[00:26:35] Usually through the AT has all the way at the beginning when they're employees entering for the application is employee self service and that's where we're going to start them all the way at the ATS all the way at that all the way through it.

[00:26:48] And it was just like wow folks are still doing that dual environment like where they're putting somebody all the way and then payroll and re-enters them in payroll like no it's.

[00:27:00] It's not payroll like me and wall I've had that conversation so many times in the last few years that it's not two different systems.

[00:27:07] It's the same system and it and look I sing Anita's praise because in her book she says it payroll starts as soon as that's the HR change. Add is made.

[00:27:19] Yeah, as soon as that piece of HR info gets put in that's when HR starts yeah I mean payroll starts right like and we've been again I think her praise I quote or all the time because she articulated it so well.

[00:27:32] Because it's not two different systems anymore it needs to be one right and it's okay.

[00:27:38] And in some cases it's the time system because they don't wait for the HR system right and so it's like you know a kid like it'll be and I better build this guy so he can log time and they don't even exist yet as an employee somewhere.

[00:27:50] It's like yeah. Yeah, that's the process of yours here. Yeah, times the heavy lifting a lot of companies it's not really payroll it's the gross to net or the gross to net's actually easy if you can just get the build to build up.

[00:28:02] Taking care of getting people put their time going through your CBA whatever that is compliant so yep yeah very much true or very very very very true. Yeah, yeah so I want to ask you guys about I think it was wall right did you move to Atlanta recently.

[00:28:17] I recently did yeah all right. A T Lian right here we got to get together. Yes, let's do it.

[00:28:22] Yeah and you got to come join Anzley's group over the payroll the payroll the payroll association here chapter here sorry I was messed that up the greater Atlanta I think it is a greater. I actually joined recently so I had all right. I just have to meet everybody.

[00:28:37] Yes. Yeah. All right man that's a great. Yeah, there's a lot of great payroll folks here we got Jim Cole the art payroll artist is in town. Anzley of course Jane Cozier the new head of the VP of product at work day is.

[00:28:52] It lives here she's potentially going to join I believe yeah I try to pop up every now and again so yeah we got to grow jealous you guys.

[00:28:58] You got to get involved you got to get involved Julie are you in Atlanta to your enjoyment I am not I'm in Detroit most okay but then I'm just starting this no word thing down to the golf side of Florida so.

[00:29:10] I just got my kids out of the house and so congratulations taking some life back baby. Yeah, I just I just moved from it's a lany. Did you? Yeah, who were behaviors? Yeah, yeah cool man. Well we gotta get together. I'm jealous.

[00:29:26] I'm in South Florida there is no I'm but I'm in Broward County specifically. Yep. And I was just talking with Laurel at payroll org like we were talking about this at the conference. Go Panthers. She's probably so happy. Oh my god, she's probably like first thing shout out.

[00:29:42] Yeah, we tagged her on LinkedIn we were like, well we know somebody who's really happy. I bet she was living it yeah yeah. Yeah, she we were talking actually was after we we connected and we were talking about the chapter in Florida.

[00:29:54] And she's like oh well there's one in Miami now's like, well I don't live in Miami.

[00:29:58] I'm like I'm in Broward County you know she's like me too that so I actually need to kind of keep connect to her her to see if we create a chapter in Broward.

[00:30:07] And we're in Broward and Palm County because there's it's just we're like in the chapter desert between Broward for real. Between Miami and Orlando there's like no chapters. Yeah, Everglades. Yeah exactly that's a private place chapter. Everglades chapter. You need to never go to school.

[00:30:22] Doing yeah doing payroll like that's it. Yeah I'm from Florida originally. I grew up there. Yeah I was born I'm born and dovol and then grew up in Pensacola and then met my wife down in Sarasota. Tampa where she's gone and kind of headed down to so.

[00:30:35] She was part of part of Michigan and part Florida and I think it was. Yeah. You follow the weather gal for years. Well maybe a chapter chapter lead is in your is in your future there Brian maybe.

[00:30:48] Yeah sure be a part of one for now you know but yeah. You and Laura. I bet we find you a friend or two. Yeah we got a little brother. No, those are great. I mean this community here seriously not.

[00:31:00] I've had so many great payroll meetings down people who pop into town because of the airport or come through and we get to have lunches so we got to get together sometimes man. You guys had a great presence at the payroll conference like with that.

[00:31:13] Yeah it's just like it was they would deep like it was good. Oh the blue yeah they got them and Jim did us some nice artwork with the peach and all that. Yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's locked on. Hey they were they were chapter the year last year.

[00:31:26] I think they were runner up this year. Man of the payroll man of the year last year I believe it was. So that's crazy. She raised the bar. She got the bar very high. Yeah. Shout out to them man.

[00:31:35] But hey I want to ask you guys about like we talked a little bit about just the way things have changed right since you started payroll at least 10 years now each of us. It's changed right?

[00:31:46] I've watched it change in that 10 years just studying and advising in that area but like what's it like now? I mean what's the what what do you see and what do you what gives you hope? Or get you excited I guess yeah.

[00:31:58] Yeah I mean we've learned a lot through so again it's it's exciting and scary all at the same time because we see now through the show a lot of the technology in the pipeline right.

[00:32:10] Yeah but we also see through leaders we talk to in clients that we have and bought you know which jobs that we work for like the the the disparity of it like it's not caught you know we're still using spreadsheets for some things.

[00:32:25] I talked to a recent leader that doesn't have time and attendance they're just on paper still like literally just using paper and they have a big enough you know group.

[00:32:34] I had a group I had a buddy that was running um that still runs a warehouse and he's like oh yeah we don't have direct deposit my boss just calls it in and I was like what is it used like 80p

[00:32:46] And I was like dude please get direct deposit like you got it's call aid tell your boss to call 80p and tell them you need direct of like you kid in me right now.

[00:32:54] And sure enough he pushed the envelope and a couple months later he's like Brian we're on direct deposit. I was like well thank the heavens.

[00:33:02] You guys folks we're getting live checks and you I mean it was a good amount of people like the business you know it's not for people so we're seeing like we're still living in two worlds right we're still living in this past that needs to get caught up.

[00:33:17] While all this amazing technology is out and becoming available to us so it's like whoa. And exciting for me because I want to be part of the conversation of bridging that gap. I'm thinking like I love the show names that you guys give your shows.

[00:33:37] I'm just hearing you know an episode that you guys might do on the payroll halves and the have not you know. That's a good one. I like that. I get for that. Yeah, I'm running down. Still that one.

[00:33:49] Julie go right in that's our lofty that out there thinking you'll get to a before feet and I would ever.

[00:33:55] So you guys can hit on a lot of subjects too man. I have to continue for that you're hitting on like compliance you're hitting on news you're hitting on like leadership. The first one. I love it man. I love it.

[00:34:06] That's funny you said that because when we initially started, we thought that we were going to be limited and the amount of shows that we could do. We thought that there was yeah payroll right. I'm gonna run out but.

[00:34:18] You know, going back to your question like payrolls ever changing the landscape is always changing and as far as what I've seen changed during my 20 plus year career is that I've seen a lot more manual processes become automated which is great.

[00:34:34] Because I remember the days of like having the puller once time sheet printing, printing time sheets going to the printer.

[00:34:40] I want to hundreds and hundreds of pages multiple clients, stuffing checks doing all that all that work that some people still doing now getting getting time sheets via facts like Brian spoke to earlier.

[00:34:52] All these different things now that are automated which made it easier and and there's still more to come right there's still more things to come.

[00:35:00] AI is going to greatly impact how we process payroll. AI is going to help us catch those errors and identify those those anomalies in those payroll issues a lot faster than we could and so it's going to help us out was going to be those tools to help us right.

[00:35:16] So I'm excited about that but I think I've seen it changed the automation has been the biggest thing for me and I think that another thing for me.

[00:35:26] Speaking personally is that I've seen more payroll pros like acknowledge who they are and accept that hey this is who I am I am great at my job.

[00:35:36] I should put myself out there more and I'd be afraid to that and speak up more on behalf of payroll so I've seen more of that as well and I'm glad that we're doing that in the payroll industry.

[00:35:47] I've been saying this a Julia and I really we we led the executive summit there was an executive session that they had for the first time we're excited to hear they're going to continue to run it at payroll. Oh nice, congratulations.

[00:36:00] Yeah it was nice it was about 50 or so executive level folks and several of the big four partners that came in to talk automation Nick day was in there myself.

[00:36:09] Julie we kind of kicked things off but one of the things I've been really trying to communicate to the payroll world is you have to start leading the organization and stopping led by the organization.

[00:36:19] Yeah, and that's scary right that and that's a skill and and that's not what payroll has been used to.

[00:36:25] But I think that's where the the the the episode we do with Amri V where we talked about making your own table taking your data bringing a couple of data points that are very impactful to your to your direct leader and beginning to have a conversation that can shape from there.

[00:36:40] I think it's little little steps like that that's how you're going to lead because if you don't you're going to continue to be led around to what you know what you're doing you're not going to you do have to fight for yourself and I'll be the first to admit when I when I got into consulting you know.

[00:36:54] I think that's a very important thing to do with the fact that you're going to be a very important thing to do with the long term after. After being a practitioner and after being in the vendor space as a consultant there.

[00:37:04] I realized I had to sell myself better right and I and one of the things that made me wake up to was how many skills I had developed as a payroll leader that I was just like, oh I know that all I did that I did that before.

[00:37:15] I was driving a lot better when I was able to articulate what I could do because people don't always think of payroll. Oh you can project manage oh you can do this yeah we have to do it all like what do you mean.

[00:37:27] Yeah, I got to know all of HR as a payroll leader right.

[00:37:30] He served me say before I just think that that makes payroll such a sweet spot for Gen Z right who likes to have their hands and everything and you know like I don't know how we get the word out or how we convince folks but.

[00:37:42] If you don't want to do the same repetitive thing over and over again that's what people think payroll is but it's not it all what it is and from payroll.

[00:37:51] You could touch so many different parts of the organization in HR or in finance and you just have like you're in the middle of this hub that you can navigate a career out.

[00:38:00] Yes, I think that's what people have been in it for a while so to really appreciate about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:38:07] I can't go to imagine imagine imagine all the bad asses we have in payroll right now folks like you folks like Laurel folks like whatever anybody anymore of a max just go down the list of practitioners right super stars.

[00:38:20] What if no offense to anyone but most of those people because we ask on this show and a lot of them have been on here how did you get into payroll why do you say just like we asked you most don't start here they fall here.

[00:38:30] What if we were having the best town in the world start yes what if we were getting that like what then we would be dominant right we take over the world. I can't do anything about this is natural energy is natural red or anything.

[00:38:50] You're a captain you're a captain you're a captain you love vitamins and wake working out. That's all I love it that's great. Now I'm the baby we need this place because we need folks to do that it's a it's a community beyond anyone organization or beyond any LinkedIn.

[00:39:09] Yeah, this is it transcends all of that right and like it's a and you know what you know what, you know what Brian go to the towards the last pages in the demographics and look at the look at the demographics up the time that people.

[00:39:19] have spent in payroll and tell me what jumps out of you on that slide. What's your biggest concern right there should be the biggest for everyone. You see by the have it all you know.

[00:39:28] So if it doesn't jump right out at you as soon as you look at the demographics of how long people have been in payroll that took that survey 700 people 28 countries five continents. Good sample I would say not it will be one if we wanted everyone.

[00:39:39] That's the penis memorized is on survey not. Yeah, I don't have it up any more you got to tell you over the response. The response had more between 11 and 19 years of experience.

[00:39:53] And then the next level down was like the the 10 the I guess it would have been the up to 10 or something. So most of the practitioners out there are 10 plus years. Yeah, half our 20 plus years.

[00:40:05] I think they lose even bigger we're Asian out we're going to lose these people and they're not flooding into the payroll right and right and then we're in the news telling them oh don't worry. We don't even need you or HR anymore because now we got AI.

[00:40:16] We'll see you know that's one of my problems with the commercials that they have out there one of the peas has a commercial and there's no offense to the company but I don't like the commercial because it's like oh you the pay you could do payroll not the for he does their own payroll now like what no this is not sending the right message.

[00:40:35] Hey, they don't pay real. I get yeah I get where they're going and I think it is the future but I think it's you're right it the way they're presenting is a little bit interesting.

[00:40:44] I still going to need one of us. Yeah in the back looking as as automated and right and let's talk about that for a second like where does everybody think.

[00:40:52] Yeah, they're all going because I feel like for a long time we're not going to give way to AI and companies are not just going to say hey guess what we don't need you anymore.

[00:41:03] AI wall is going to run it now like that's not going to happen for a long that use case is great if I've got four employees and it's just me the business. It's not if I've got. And so.

[00:41:15] And I've got yeah exactly or a hundred or whatever it's that doesn't work that doesn't work. Yeah, but hey look that that's seen listen they're going down the right path they're building the right technology.

[00:41:26] They're marketing is just terrible they're the same one that that had when Paul tro talking about employee experience so oh my god. I don't know she's ever had a job to even have ever been an employee let alone. Yeah, so yeah about to get celebrity 8 male now.

[00:41:41] I'm just happy we know for us hey I'm not alone in this one there's a lot of other people that. This is the show more yeah. Levels of it. Just funny that you said. I'm a kind of a smart man nothing is what it is you know.

[00:41:54] We actually did a show right Brian on on that very talk about how I was going to impact payroll. Yeah, how we're how we're age now.

[00:42:03] Yep, how we wanted to know how we could attract other talent into payroll and you know we even talked about from the education piece right there would be it would be nice if there was a degree program specifically. For payroll we were able to build that out.

[00:42:18] Yeah, yeah. It's our has one a lot of other people have. There's not even an associate's for payroll and yeah, they're doing that and not Australia we did an episode on that the AWS CC I think it's a very bold bold.

[00:42:31] Gold what they want the chief payroll officer on that there's a lot there to unpack but I think they're trying really hard to change the attitude if all that comes out of it is.

[00:42:39] A new attitude and and culture towards payroll as you're right educated different you know on their own credentials and given the ability to have a different point of view as a.

[00:42:51] profession and an industry and not just a bookkeeping in the career subset of whatever now it has more power now you can get more have more conversations.

[00:43:00] You were we're not going to get all that at first right we won't get the CPO we won't get everything we want but let's just let's just point in that direction dream big and hey maybe we end up just moving forward two steps that's great that's something.

[00:43:12] I'm happy to kind of stay as that conversation. Look we're coming up on time and we want to play this thing you guys that we have and yes, yeah I want to ask you one more thing. One more thing.

[00:43:25] I don't really this is important you had Barton you had Barton is more money. Great book I've read it I digested it at pay pay work and we pay con and we we had them on the show there we brought him here I think it's a fantastic book.

[00:43:38] I think it's a piece of what you're going to have to do to kind of. Well I think it yeah yes I think it goes to what you just said right not being led and we have to see.

[00:43:55] Right and the things that we said are impact like we have to be able to articulate what payrolls doing how it impacts the business and I think one of the things is saying look when when the folks who are watching the.

[00:44:07] The cast register realized that 45% of your revenue is payroll usually 40 to 50% of your then the conversation gets like oh wait a minute what what do they got to say then you know when you can kind of show ways at hey here's how we can save some money on that payroll 40 50% right.

[00:44:30] And then you really start to be now you have that platform to be an influence but you got to want it right I think that you got to want it you got to really want it and you and I think you said it very well Pete you got to stop being led.

[00:44:44] Yeah yeah just do it right sometimes it takes that initiative it takes going ahead and just doing yeah going ahead and being proactive instead of being active right.

[00:44:54] Yeah make going ahead and speaking up instead of waiting to be spoken to right yeah yeah and go ahead and tell your boss hey this is an area I went I ran this audit and this is where we're having some pain points this is where we need to address now it's you're not a decision maker.

[00:45:09] Yeah the decision maker keep bringing it up what Brian what do you say the squeaky will get still. Yeah yeah yeah bring in those things up until they're addressed or tie ROI or dollars to it and watch people go wait a minute what.

[00:45:22] What oh can you pull me another report yeah come on.

[00:45:26] Let me tell me let me tell my see a phone about that you know and then all of a sudden you start having these different like people I figured that out at Disneyman and our shared service center we were like.

[00:45:34] I was very fortunate to work with some GE executives that were stellar and they taught me ways of stakeholder management at a very young age where I was able to show them KPIs and we were moving the needle and then they were like they were inviting their friends and you know so to speak they're calling.

[00:45:49] Okay you need to come look at your business.

[00:45:51] Yeah because my costs are going down now because I work in repeat you know and so now they have a vested interest to want to help you help them and then it makes you look like a hero while you're you know so yeah man.

[00:46:02] Brokey those relationships that's another great part with of what I think we learned in that and that survey is how important. Payroll has to lean into their relationships and the executives are going to be the key to them delivering more value.

[00:46:13] I just talked about the partnership last week about like what are our key partners in payroll we partner with HR and finance usually and that's slide right again. It's such a great amount of info there. Yeah so we want to play this game. Let's do it.

[00:46:30] It's just on you know it's yeah again it just gets us look it's this or that it can be or neither one of the other you know you make the call I'm going to give you five and then what is going to finish off with.

[00:46:42] Okay we go back and forth or I would. So I'm going to ask you five and both of you answer your own answers right pretty easy look softball first one coffee or T one T. M T. Yeah there you go apple or Microsoft.

[00:46:59] I'm a sample I'm an apple. I'm a sample geek. I'm a Microsoft girl. Fan boy all day. Yep there you go excel or Google sheets. Oh, excel. Yeah I'm still excel. Yeah. Likewise is 70's I was born in 70's 80's. Me too. So it's really amazing.

[00:47:17] It's amazing not so be a day in the zone. Gen X last one for me. Yep me too. 80 p or work day. Oh they're both clients. Both exactly can I plug something together? They make up an excellent partnership which they get strategically level up at rising last year.

[00:47:34] I wrote about that. So I'd have to say both they're both incredibly great organizations and not very do great work. I heard that you heard that um work they can do its own payroll now.

[00:47:46] Well they always say payroll they just mostly had US you can always Australia always Hold her them in conjunction with 80 p like work day old but 80 p does the pay. Oh services services.

[00:47:58] What they can certainly provide the tech 80 p will normally provide outsourcing services because what happens is if you look at a number of the

[00:48:05] people in the market and you can see that they're working on a market market solutions like a day for so UK G or any of the pays services kind of come compliance services at least the tax filing

[00:48:14] garishment filing that sort of stuff comes with your solution so what they does not do services so they partner with like a light and cloud pay and 80 p give their customer to a market place to pick from so yeah. But I say both yeah.

[00:48:29] So Pete's pizza and given a little color to my answer because the advisor I am unbiased across the market so clients are going to work you know some situations work with one some more together but I will tell you both of them are top tier.

[00:48:42] Yeah, together anymore powerful out of stuff as well. Last one for me payroll or HRIS. Well, depends on the context but I'm always I'm listen I'll die I'm a writer die for payroll so yes. I'm both there I agree.

[00:48:58] I'm both but also a big fan of the HCM tech world I do a lot of work and research there so.

[00:49:04] I respect for everybody we need HCM in order to give us our data right college we need it a ride we need the boys in the Navy give us a ride. We need each other man HHHM needs payroll payroll needs HCM man it's a heartbeat.

[00:49:17] We need to get some more of the same engine hips. Yeah, that's right that's right yeah I love it. I love it. Well it's got some force now. All right tacos or pizza. Man I'd probably go tacos.

[00:49:30] Yeah for Nanda so I had to go I had to go to the town. You don't have to but I'm gonna do it. All right my next one is science or math. Oh science for me I'm horrible math the magic that payroll right.

[00:49:47] I'm gonna say math but you all know of function languages and arts is stuff is more my game. Yeah got you all right reality TV are documentaries. I like the documentaries I like true you know stories in history I like history a lot so yeah doctor.

[00:50:05] Okay so when my husband's around which is most of the time it's got to be the documentaries but if he has gone somewhere else I flip on some cherished stuff that he would never want. What are you watching right now Julie what do you watch right now?

[00:50:18] Okay what am I gonna run every watching watching something I don't know it's it's always somebody fighting and things blow enough It's gotta be the guy the guy's chef. I have them watching through all the same.

[00:50:30] All right I walk on the beach or a hike in the forest. I'm a Florida boy I grew up surfing so walking on the beach all day I mean I appreciate the mountains but walking on the beach.

[00:50:44] Yeah I'm the opposite I'm a Michigan girl so hike in the forest. All right yeah and then my last one is AI or people. There's more power people I think emotion intelligence will always trump any sort of technology in my opinion hopefully hopefully.

[00:51:06] But I think yeah I gotta go people I think you've got to have people to make it all work right. Yeah so. And people are necessary but honestly that's all the more reason why AI we should be talking about because it's to dispel exactly what you were saying

[00:51:20] Brian about the commercials that that lead people to think something or that create this fear that somehow we're all going away and AI is going to do everything.

[00:51:28] So so I feel like you know AI needs to be the thing we're talking about but that's because it doesn't cut it on its own you know. Yeah yeah. I think you can't do it without people.

[00:51:38] Absolutely nothing nothing's going to happen especially digital transformations like you got to have you got to

[00:51:43] I even wrote that in the report like look you can throw all the technology and AI you want it payroll but you've got to have people managing your projects and M&A and.

[00:51:51] Or redesigns and just all the things that get thrown at you that are not processing the payroll right let the AI do that but.

[00:51:58] So well I feel like I got to go back to one of your questions about what are you watching right now and I get it again out my husband in a horrible way so.

[00:52:06] So I was at an event and we had this dinner where we brought a bunch of work people together so I told me to be on your best behavior you know. Can't be talking about you know,

[00:52:16] one of the super guy things that you know you're excited about so they pulled the what are you watching now what series are you watching now around the table and oh my god he was struggling because everything he watches is you know is the same genre stuff.

[00:52:30] So he you know pick some benign thing that he really isn't watching at all and it can't and then next it was me and I said well I don't know what he's talking about but watching texture. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad I was. So yeah, I was.

[00:52:47] Yeah, So that's a good. That's so funny. It is man. I have sex. Yeah, I don't watch the whole thing. I haven't I just don't watch a lot of TV anymore. I feel like I just listen more podcasts and radio.

[00:53:03] I mean, I do streaming and I'm hooked on podcasts. So I'm almost. Yeah, it's my learning so anyway my comedy and just whatever if I call you for a podcast. Yeah absolutely. I love it. Yeah. Is that it? Do we do all five years? Yeah.

[00:53:19] I think we're probably coming up to our time. I can see here and talk to you guys all day. You get me five as you can. I know I get fired. Like what. So we have to do it again. Man, I love it. I love it.

[00:53:30] We're going to do it again. We're going to swap this out. We're going to put some bo shows where can everyone find you. I'll make sure it links are there. We're on everywhere podcast posted and YouTube. Yeah, link the Facebook. Okay. All of the place.

[00:53:46] It's links in there man. Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Keep doing what you're doing. We appreciate you. Payroll. And keep spreading good word. You guys are helping your helping people. And I hope we're helping people. I get great feedback. Yeah. And that's what this is about man.

[00:54:01] Just sharing what we know. And yeah, helping the community man. Payroll. But I payroll for payroll. That's it. We love you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Have a good day. Before we sign off. Here are a couple quick things. Don't forget to follow.

[00:54:17] It's about payroll on LinkedIn and it's about your paycheck on Facebook and TikTok. Thank you for being part of our payroll community. And thank you for being a part of this journey with us until the next time. Keep learning. Keep growing. And most importantly, keep going.