Journey to the C-Suite: Insights on Intentional Growth, Decisiveness, and Resilience with Novo Constare, CEO of IndeedFlex

[00:00:00] The flip side of that is my nickname when I was say seven years old, it was given to me by my uncle. He's a clean money man.

[00:00:11] Because I guess like I was so like enamored with like independent independence. I knew that money gave you that. So like I was always trying to find ways to make money.

[00:00:23] So I was never, I was never proactive enough to have the lemonade stand was that young but I always know that I was you know busy dancing to the bad out.

[00:00:34] But like I always knew that I want to make money. I want to be my own boss and therefore I need to go build something. And obviously I did you know my mother is Nigerian there's no way I'm going out venturing to do whatever.

[00:00:48] All right, I want to talk to you for a moment about retaining and developing your workforce is hard recruiting is hard retaining top employees is hard. Then you've got onboarding payroll benefits time in labor management.

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[00:01:29] Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to another episode of Inside the Sea Suite.

[00:01:34] I am here today with William Tinkum and Mr. Novo Kahnstari did I get that right yes you did so I did all right good novo is the CEO of indeed flex and today we are going to learn all about his story not so much what he's doing today but his journey how he came up how he

[00:01:56] ended up as CEO of indeed flex and really just everything about you we're going to probe and we are going to learn about what you did to become who you are today sound like a game plan sounds good all right before we get started why don't you kick us off introduce yourself what you're doing today

[00:02:15] and then we're going to open up the waterfalls here and just start pounding you with some good questions cool novo Kahnstari CEO of indeed flex if you can't tell by Maxon I am from the UK born and raised in London

[00:02:30] father of two children four and two are completely handful and yeah and indeed flex partly indeed group of companies and work in London but travel very often to Austin Texas where I was based

[00:02:47] so tell us a little bit indeed flex so the audience in case you're unaware or whatever are probably familiar with indeed I would question that if they aren't so probably understand indeed but the flex part what is what is that how they come about

[00:03:07] so indeed flex is a product of indeed and it's focused on innovating the way temporary staffing happens so we connect employers whether being warehousing hospitality clerical with job seekers who look for temporary engagements so you could be a restaurant where your weight is called in sick at 8 p.m. you got busy dinner service and all sudden you know your own trouble you can go into our platform post an assignment offer out to the best match workers and have someone turn up

[00:03:37] within an hour that's like that was a premise of what we built in London and it was so successful that indeed came in and quiet us when we were known as sift and we launched in the US and growing it since

[00:03:49] is it a mobile app as well yeah we have a mobile app for our workers and a mobile and desktop app for our employers and the cool thing about it is temporary staffing is usually quite an opaque industry

[00:04:03] workers can't see all the jobs and the end client can't see who the available workers are what what indeed flex is all about is trying to provide a more transparency to that marketplace and enable the employers and able the workers to make the best decisions for themselves so we aren't as a recruiter telling which jobs

[00:04:23] the working go to or which worker the client can have we're focusing on highlighting data to both sides of the marketplace for them to make the best decisions for ourselves you know we're very focused and allowing workers to book work spaces around their schedule

[00:04:37] and giving employers that choice that they're hiring the right worker for their business are there ratings in the app or otherwise is there ratings on both sides

[00:04:47] yes it's a little blackmailer ask where you can you can rate your candidate at the end of their assignment but similarly we allow the workers to rate the employer and what that help does it helps educate the employer and what you know maybe they need to improve upon what they're really good at

[00:05:01] and also helps the worker decide whether they think that employers right for them to improve

[00:05:07] where or when in the future how close are we to this being the new worker.

[00:05:15] I would say whether they're ready you know the marketplace for addressing is has existed for decades you know the world of temporary staffing is nothing is not new

[00:05:27] I know we have this new you know the new sort of gig economy that we talk about which is almost a branch of temporary staffing but maybe more focused on much shorter term gigs and assignments

[00:05:39] but the nature of it's still the same you're engaging with someone for a very temporary amount of time and payment for their services

[00:05:45] so I think that we're in that period now the gig economy is growing through the roof I don't know the number of top my head but I know this north of 60 million Americans today at least who've engaged in some form of temporary work

[00:05:56] I think the recent cost of living crisis through you know the rampant increase in interest rates forced a lot of people to try and pick up extra hours and extra work to try and keep the roof over their heads

[00:06:09] and keep the food on the table and a lot of these people migrated to platforms like ourselves or to other gig economy platforms like Door Dash or Uber.

[00:06:18] We saw not necessarily in the US but we saw in the UK where we had a lot of people a lot of people come out of retirement so like their pension payments weren't sufficient enough to maintain a lifestyle and they came out of retirement to pick up this work which you know it's not it's not asking to work every day

[00:06:37] we're not asking for a full time commitment from work as we're asking check when you're available check what assignments suit your capability your needs and availability and pick the work that's right for you

[00:06:47] there is no commitment it's a when you're able to and when you want to turn on off and turn it on and off so okay so Novo I want to get started here I want to learn your story clearly you've had success in your rise to CEO of indeed flex

[00:07:05] and your in your acquisition there so take us back to when you were a youngster what was going not that you might not be able to remember what was going through your mind I don't know maybe

[00:07:16] but I want to be a footballer.

[00:07:19] So actually there's a funny answer to that I came before in the past that question where me my my co-founder

[00:07:34] asked what do we want to be when younger and his answer was he wants to be a dinosaur which is quite cool actually mine I'm sure I want to have mine as cool because mine wasn't back my I wanted to be a backup dancer to Michael Jackson

[00:07:48] like I was one of those

[00:07:52] I was one of those with the hat the glove the white stuff the pull it up lecture on my teeth

[00:07:57] I don't think we've ever had that as an answer.

[00:08:01] Can you do like I have lemonade stands?

[00:08:04] No, can you do a better impression and Chris Tucker?

[00:08:08] I could win even attempts.

[00:08:10] This is how cool it is so no chance.

[00:08:12] I'll give you a minute when when when we're not recording okay?

[00:08:16] That's how we're starting this episode.

[00:08:18] 100% we're kicking it we're cutting this and putting it in the front one on it.

[00:08:23] To ride like when you what did you want to be did you ever think entrepreneurship was a part of that mix outside of the becoming a back.

[00:08:36] I think I'm heavily influenced by him so she was a single mother of two raised up she was not like she was a pharmacist originally like I was.

[00:08:45] I was a pharmacist originally like a temp herself worked for different establishments and she tempt enough to raise and raise enough money to afford to go.

[00:08:54] No, I would her own pharmacy and put me my sister through school to the degree where we actually got to go to private school.

[00:09:03] And so I guess like seeing her and how successful it was and how you know through financial stability she was able to provide us.

[00:09:11] And I think that's the education that we got and just the life that we had.

[00:09:17] I've always want to have I've always had a bit of like I want to be just like that.

[00:09:21] I don't want to be dependent on someone I want to be you know I want to be my own boss to the great.

[00:09:29] The other the flip side of that is my nickname when I was say seven years old eight years old it was given to me by my uncle.

[00:09:40] He's a clean money man because I guess like I was so like enamored with like independent independence.

[00:09:49] I knew that money gave you that so like I was always trying to find ways to make money so I was never like so I was never proactive enough to have to eliminate stand was that young.

[00:09:58] But I always know that I was you know obviously dancing to the bad out.

[00:10:04] But like I always knew that I want to make money I want to be my own boss and therefore I need to go build something.

[00:10:12] And obviously I did you know my mother is Nigerian there's no way I'm going out venturing to do whatever I'm going to do my studies I'm going to do maths.

[00:10:20] So I went through school got these grades went to university of Bristol which is in the west of England did philosophy and economics.

[00:10:31] She wasn't too keen on philosophy but I think it was super important to understand the art of debate and contextualizing you know information of just numbers.

[00:10:40] But in the school I went to before going to university was a very good school and they'd have these career fairs.

[00:10:48] And in these careers fairs they would you know they'd have all these 14 500 companies like the investment banks that are union leaders of the world or whatnot.

[00:10:57] And then you know they tell you all these careers of what you know what you can do you can do this be an investment banker be this and at that time investment banking was the thing.

[00:11:05] You know now it's like it's tech or specifically AI but back then it was invested back that's the path you want to go on and that's how you make loads of money and that's how you grow blah blah.

[00:11:16] So obviously I was doing economics to go on that path but you know as I was speaking to all the JPMorgan associates at the time you know yeah just 16 17 they're explaining their lifestyle and it sounded.

[00:11:30] Tough.

[00:11:33] I want to work into 3 a.m. 4 a.m. on deals that never happened like like I hate the concept of throw away work and like work for the sake of work and face time and unnecessary deadlines.

[00:11:51] It's not so like it's tough as you are but I always say people like you don't like people look at me think I'm not going to work so hard I think fundamentally underneath my core I'm a lazy person.

[00:12:04] Sorry but Bill Gates I think once said the developers he hires are the laziest people because they're going to find the shortcut.

[00:12:13] Yes.

[00:12:15] I was called to excuse my behavior.

[00:12:20] To justify.

[00:12:23] But like finance was a thing and I knew I wanted to get into finance but my plan was I want you finance for a while.

[00:12:32] Build up some savings and then go do something entrepreneurial like that was my plan like I had like a 10 year plan on getting to I do my degree or go get investment bank and job.

[00:12:43] Get some good savings and then that will give me opportunity to go and try and do something.

[00:12:49] Yeah.

[00:12:52] Sorry were you tell us tell us your about your 10 year plan because I thought to hear it.

[00:12:59] Because I never had one so I'm automatically jealous.

[00:13:03] I know one language of American I have no plan.

[00:13:08] So you ever afraid though when you made that decision to go in say 10 years investment banking get some savings.

[00:13:16] Were you ever afraid you're like I'm going to crush it right you've got X amount the money in a bank why would I ever leave this to do this I'm going to keep going.

[00:13:24] We ever phrase we're never going to get to that next time.

[00:13:27] I'm sure you got to invest in banking he hasn't told us that he made it.

[00:13:31] I'm I'm hearing that there's a deviation from the plan.

[00:13:36] So wait there's more so I'm quite going to invest in banking and as I said I'm a fundamentally lazy person.

[00:13:44] You could have told me before I asked.

[00:13:48] The other aspect was I was quite a keen focus.

[00:13:53] Oh, I love this.

[00:13:56] Now you're not that you have a gambling problem.

[00:14:01] We're not saying that I would never say that.

[00:14:06] Texas Holden or you.

[00:14:10] I played Texas Holden high stakes cash broker like I built up my build up my bank row from free rolls to multi table to single table tournaments multi table to cash and I put myself for university utilizing that.

[00:14:24] And then I went too high in the stakes lost my money and I was like yeah probably all this play for fun now.

[00:14:32] And then folks in the right thing.

[00:14:36] I do have a sense for risk an emphasis and I am risk loving to degree so I did go into finance but not as like an M&A advisor or corporate advisors a lot of people do.

[00:14:48] I went into trading so I became a trader in a derivative.

[00:14:53] So originally it was fixed income so European bonds government interest rates and things like that.

[00:15:01] And then very quickly translated into trade everything.

[00:15:05] Did you work for a brokerage firm?

[00:15:09] No, there's an issue one that had called it in Chicago but we were part of the London desk and it's honest I loved that job.

[00:15:17] It gave me great amount of independence.

[00:15:22] Okay well.

[00:15:23] But I didn't to Ryan's question do I know if I would have ever gone to her?

[00:15:29] I think because I went into trading that was never in danger.

[00:15:34] Because we're trading I kind of rightly or wrongly I kind of felt that the skill set I was building up wasn't that transferable.

[00:15:43] I was very good in trading numbers on a screen buying and selling.

[00:15:49] And it's a very specific thing you hone.

[00:15:51] Yes, you get some understanding of risk analysis and digesting macro to what you use and technical analysis but those things are usually quite useful for training.

[00:16:01] And not necessarily going to translate to leadership and management and also have you already kind of thought about AI in the world that you used to be in.

[00:16:09] So what do you think I can do or will do is are are it is doing exactly so when I started.

[00:16:17] The tool trade we were as we were given a certain amount of capital and we could allocate it into the market and there's this sort of thing for free hand trading where you see the price to pick the price.

[00:16:27] You have an edge you make money in all sorts of things around when I started was around 2010 the bots were taken over.

[00:16:35] And there's a lot more black box trading and we ourselves are invested heavily in it.

[00:16:41] And very quickly the human element that we had as traders eroded over time yes, you were still needed as sort of like the final decision point but became a lot more gray box.

[00:16:53] And we read into black box versus execution trading so you can see already where it was heading and like yeah it like in the short time I did do trading it shifted a grip.

[00:17:04] We're seeing the same thing in recruiting you know right now is it's taking over certain parts and you can see recruiters being really freaked out about it taking over some of the things that they once did.

[00:17:21] So I can imagine going through that transition but like okay I'm doing this to it I'm pretty good at it.

[00:17:27] I'm doing this and all of a sudden technology is enabling it's helping but it's also taking some of the stuff that probably made the job enjoyable.

[00:17:36] Yes away from you 100% and the one thing I say is with like say trading.

[00:17:43] I can see AI taking over in tiny and limiting the job when it comes to things like recruitment I think it evolves the role of the recruiter me too.

[00:17:53] You know right now recruiters are holding on to the administrative stuff of things like I manage this I do that and actually sort of saying let go of that.

[00:18:03] And actually it allows you to spend more time on the things that AI cannot do.

[00:18:10] I think Boo Horn did the sorry if I can't name drop but they did the survey like a year and a bit ago and it talked about like temporary workers who are working on assignment.

[00:18:19] And it said that even though they're on like a long term job so they're working an employer for like three months you name it.

[00:18:26] They would still like to hear from their original recruiter at least once a week.

[00:18:32] And so like back human and right now recruiters don't they can't afford to contact all the candidates they have right now because they're busy doing all the admin stuff and going on and for me so saying well actually that's what they really want.

[00:18:44] That's how you build staying power that's how you know you get them to come back to you when they want their next job or the next assignment and so like within deflex we're focused on like eliminating all the pieces where it's where AI can really have ownership of it and retaining the relationship piece more.

[00:19:00] And so like I keep telling my team like we want to evolve the recruit we want to eliminate the recruiter and turn you into career counselors and support for workers and things like that.

[00:19:09] And by removing all the admin stuff you can scale yourself up to be able to speak to a way more candidates post the higher than you could today.

[00:19:17] So Ryan what I've got so far professional gambler professional trader right so what there's a lot of vices going on here and indeed from back on you like did you throw it back on check I'm kind of yeah recruit holdings does a really really good job.

[00:19:35] I work.

[00:19:37] It's not gonna say it's a frontology exam however so when you go to HR tech and you walk past the real it tables without dropping.

[00:19:45] I don't like it.

[00:19:47] No really.

[00:19:48] The expo hall.

[00:19:49] The number starting your paper in real life.

[00:19:51] I've been to Vegas seven times in my life and I've gone through the table once.

[00:19:56] That's more than me.

[00:19:58] I'm blackjack because black.

[00:20:02] 50 50 50 if you play perfectly.

[00:20:05] Okay so first of all I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you my blank Jack story really quickly quickly and it'll drive you crazy the logic of it will drive you insane.

[00:20:14] I hold on 12.

[00:20:16] So I never bust so if I get a six and a seven.

[00:20:21] I stay.

[00:20:22] Yeah so for the people watching on video they see the lasers coming out of the guy right now.

[00:20:28] I'm getting on either I'm gonna have a better number or the banker or the dealer is gonna bust.

[00:20:33] And it drives when I'm at a table it drives everyone else insane like you know we're at the end of the deck and people probably already had kind of some type of system of understanding where they were at the deck.

[00:20:47] And I could clearly get a card that would give me up into the high teens and maybe 20s and I'm like yeah some of it I'm playing a dealer.

[00:20:56] And man I have had people throw their chairs down.

[00:20:59] I've had people like that get physical with me because you know casinos are pretty pretty well secured but yeah like they hate that strategy.

[00:21:08] But I've almost always won with that strategy and it drives people winning.

[00:21:15] Yeah right.

[00:21:16] I'm not I'm not I'm not their bank is their bank on my back.

[00:21:20] I'm just playing that person and it drives every time I do this because I do it in Vegas when I you know I'll go and you'll put down a couple hundred dollars and do it and it drives people crazy.

[00:21:31] So now at this point after doing it for 15 20 years, I'm just now into making them crazy so now it's just a bit.

[00:21:39] 150 bucks.

[00:21:42] Exactly I'll go get the first chair.

[00:21:46] I'll wait till the first years available just to frustrate the rest of the table.

[00:21:51] So anyhow, I did have a question really quickly with the two things you told us so far what was the skills that made you success?

[00:21:58] What skill and poker what skill and training.

[00:22:02] I would say I'm quite decisive.

[00:22:07] So I'm not afraid to fail.

[00:22:11] Priority.

[00:22:12] So poker you just didn't question yourself.

[00:22:16] It's so like for me those games are both carefully to risks.

[00:22:21] Obviously they are gambling to a degree but there's calculated risk involved, but there is risk.

[00:22:26] There's no elimination of that and I kind of apply that same mindset to life.

[00:22:30] Like I know roughly the odds are something and I also back my own skill set to increase the chance that those odds playing in my favor.

[00:22:39] So I'm quite decisive in my decision making.

[00:22:43] I'm comfortable operating in the gray.

[00:22:46] And obviously that lends well to non-tipo mindset like if you're afraid to fail is an entrepreneur.

[00:22:51] If you're someone who needs all the numbers and all the data for your acts and then you're to like, you know.

[00:22:56] Get a job.

[00:22:57] I said process through analysis.

[00:22:59] You won't be successful from an entrepreneur process.

[00:23:02] So I think those have helped me quite well.

[00:23:05] And I think it's also helped me almost be a calming factor for the people at manage or the company I've led because they see that I'm comfortable with.

[00:23:15] Right.

[00:23:16] And they're possible to call they become calm.

[00:23:18] Yes, and you know, hopefully bosses and right where people do try things they're willing to learn.

[00:23:23] But at the same time understand that it is all a calculated risk.

[00:23:27] Right.

[00:23:28] But I think that skill sets probably thing that helps me that and the ability to take in a lot of information for multiple areas and digest it to enable decision.

[00:23:38] Well, it's interesting in both cases you dealt with losses even if it was just a hand.

[00:23:44] You dealt with loss you know, you did a bit.

[00:23:47] You thought you had it.

[00:23:48] You didn't you lost most people would it would languish in them for the next four hands.

[00:23:56] They'd still be thinking about that hand that happened five six hands ago like why did I do that?

[00:24:02] I pocket jacks.

[00:24:03] Why did I do that?

[00:24:05] There's nothing else than the other.

[00:24:06] They're still thinking about that whereas I believe what you're saying is you've already moved on.

[00:24:11] On to the next one it's all part of the game right you're not going to win every hand.

[00:24:15] You're not going to win every trade is an element of like overtime.

[00:24:19] You know, the variance would go your way because you're applying a strategy that you have confidence in and that's essentially how.

[00:24:25] Burger people make a career as hell traders make a career they have a strategy that they know over time wins.

[00:24:32] And so like each incremental moment is almost irrelevant.

[00:24:35] Like you know people to stop market by and locally.

[00:24:38] Like trying to pick the bottom just it is going to go up over over the long run and it's the same same concept.

[00:24:46] So take take us through the lead up to sift.

[00:24:50] What's the story behind sift and obviously you had success there but maybe talk about what's the lead up story there?

[00:24:57] The end of the wild sift the why.

[00:25:00] What are some failures there before you hit a pig before you history struck struck success.

[00:25:06] So I went into trading and I absolutely loved my job.

[00:25:10] I did it for six years.

[00:25:12] Well, the second company joined was for six years and come before that was two years.

[00:25:16] But during that time as I said I didn't feel like I had very transferable skillsets.

[00:25:20] I was like if this doesn't play out what am I going to do after this?

[00:25:23] And ultimately my end goal is to do something entrepreneurial.

[00:25:26] So throughout that time there were a couple of other ventures that I did.

[00:25:30] One was in property.

[00:25:32] I was in the e-commerce almost and they didn't they didn't play out.

[00:25:37] But I was looking for something.

[00:25:39] And I don't know if you remember around like sort of like 2013, 2014 period Uber was beginning to take off and everything was about apps everyone had an idea for an app.

[00:25:50] And a friend of mine who you used to live with were meeting 2014 December time catch up for Christmas.

[00:25:58] It was like Christmas lunch and drinks.

[00:26:00] And he just left his previous style up.

[00:26:02] They was working at which is an e-learning company, a e-learning software company.

[00:26:06] And he mentioned he had this idea which turned out to be served around booking workers via an app.

[00:26:14] And the combination it came twofold.

[00:26:18] The story we tell, which is also true but the one we tell is a bit more you know, it's.

[00:26:23] Tell us the one you don't tell.

[00:26:25] The story we tell is like.

[00:26:29] He was a temporary worker in the past when he joined university days in Cardiff Wales, but he had a car.

[00:26:36] And because he had a car and because the industry was opaque, the recruiter would decide what job he went to and they would always make him go to the job far away.

[00:26:45] Because you have a car.

[00:26:46] His friends didn't have a car same agency.

[00:26:50] They got to go to the nice Christie job with the middle and stadium just down the road.

[00:26:55] But he was forced to go to the one far away, whilst his flatmates were getting the better opportunity.

[00:27:02] And that name just gruntled so he would either not turn up or if you did turn up it wouldn't be very motivated because he didn't get to choose.

[00:27:09] He knew those other opportunities he didn't have access to.

[00:27:11] And as apps were taken for that time in creating transparency through creating marketplace format, we have ratings and good visibility.

[00:27:18] It's like why isn't this happening in temporary staffing?

[00:27:21] So like that, that you know that had been something that been culminating his mind even like a year or so earlier when we were living together.

[00:27:28] But obviously he was at his job and then we pushed through with it.

[00:27:31] But then there was like a at-home moment, which went beyond just that choose where and when you work.

[00:27:38] A friend of his was a bar manager and they're out one night in the bar manager had an awful night because the bartenders who needed support him didn't turn up.

[00:27:50] And so the manager was behind the bar the entire night on a Saturday having an absolute man.

[00:27:56] And they get home and like they're just talking about this.

[00:28:00] What's happened, you know, and I think I'm bleeding about what a rubbish night was and he just has a bit of epiphany wouldn't be cool because books on my last minute like a new but.

[00:28:09] And marrying that with his own experience is it came really clear as value we can add to both sides here, leverage technology for speed, leverage technology for transparency and basic cream better outcomes for both sides of marketplace.

[00:28:21] And he was telling me about this idea during like Christmas lunch and at first I was like.

[00:28:27] Finally an app that looks like it's going to be good like no one had launched that time, at least so we thought.

[00:28:33] And finally like a good idea for now because everyone had random ideas for it. So when they're really ready to meet you.

[00:28:40] This is a huge existing market and you're going to go innovate it and dramatically change the way it operates.

[00:28:46] And hopefully provide better outcomes for both sides.

[00:28:50] And initially me, my friends who are my friends with also there were like we want to invest in that idea.

[00:28:57] And Jack Beaman who's original CEO and my co-founder and friend were like bring us a business plan.

[00:29:07] But he's a salesy big thinker not too detailed person and he came up with a business plan which we still have to which I still have to do today because every now and then I parade it out for a bit of laughs.

[00:29:19] And literally we have you.

[00:29:28] We basically all say on the way out like it needs a little bit more meat on the bones but like yeah we're not going to invest.

[00:29:36] And then I proceed to have probably my worst week ever in trading.

[00:29:42] And as you mentioned, like you know if I was in investment banking whatever investment bank and you don't get moments like that we're going to see what moments where you work hard.

[00:29:50] But you don't have moments where you're just like wow.

[00:29:53] I just lost a lot of money and probably losing a lot of money in December is that your bonus period is calculated the end for the summer.

[00:30:01] It's like last 11 months.

[00:30:03] You're not going to be counting on it.

[00:30:05] You're already spending that problem.

[00:30:07] Always don't need to have happened.

[00:30:09] Yeah, and I think it was a very jarring emotional moment.

[00:30:13] A lot of people play it safe in December.

[00:30:15] Exactly.

[00:30:16] Not me poker player.

[00:30:20] But that was a good like moment to be like dude you've been a look at for something.

[00:30:27] You know, you've been a lot of people.

[00:30:37] And I was like yeah, okay why don't it's like cool Jack back up and I was like okay Jack.

[00:30:45] Not going to invest on coming with the 50 50 we're going to go build this thing.

[00:30:50] I was like the more operational more detailed numbers person you can like build the financial plan and all those sort of things like Mario skill sets together and we're pretty.

[00:31:01] One good founder.

[00:31:03] And so like it was always like Jack and other in no jacket will always like we're we know we're two so yeah and.

[00:31:10] So that's you know, that's how we started off and literally.

[00:31:14] Two weeks later we was going.

[00:31:17] There's a bridge because it was Christmas and New Year's but January 5th.

[00:31:21] Incorporated the company originally was called recruit me, but then we wanted a name that was like could be a pronoun and now and a verb you know you're ubering your new version of you know we like we can't.

[00:31:32] Sifting sifting and all that sort of stuff and it came about because we were speaking to like a hiring a charm manager for a large restaurant chain.

[00:31:42] One time how she got 10,000 applications for a job just to sift through these applications like thank you.

[00:31:51] We came up with surfed and like very quickly you know evolved from being uber for staffing to like actually want to be more like Tinder.

[00:32:00] We want to understand you know what about a work and all about a customer to make sure they're radio the right for each other as opposed to.

[00:32:08] Just you know just get whoever you when you drive in it selects is getting where it turns up who accepts and we're like that's not going to work for study stuff and we have to make sure that it's the right match you know we were we're operating in.

[00:32:20] High end restaurants low end restaurants stadiums and not all workers can work on those and all those environments so like.

[00:32:27] That's how I started we raised you know family and friends round like very very quickly so we incorporate April we raise our first bit of money and by March.

[00:32:37] How to prototype built out and we did this we did this whole fake it to you make it thing.

[00:32:43] No background or recruitment no background in engineering or tech no background working hospitality which is two guys with an idea and hope.

[00:32:52] And so we're like okay how are we going to convince investors to give us money and so we went on a on a figure to you make it so like okay we have.

[00:33:01] No background in these sectors so we built out this like ridiculous prospectus to show how much we investigated and dug deep into the market analysis like it was it was ridiculous but it's like 50 or pages McKinsey would be proud so just show like we we know what we're doing and we've looked at everything out every avenue and this is where I want to do that.

[00:33:21] You know we don't have a product because we're not engineers so what do we do we spent like 10,000 pounds on a designer to put a prototype as a miss you know we understand the concept of MVP was most high fidelity prototype 115 like all the features and he didn't have any code behind it but it had all the screen so someone.

[00:33:39] So someone cracking around but feel like it was a real app and so we'd go to investors with his prospectus and we'd go with this click through app is like okay you got you want to feel like you've got the product.

[00:33:49] We have no traction we have no traction we take that prototype with a bunch to a bunch of restaurants and bars and caterers and ask them what do you think about this concept would you be willing to sign a letter of intent for me lunch to say that when we launch you'd use us.

[00:34:03] It's no it's no cost to them right is the saying yeah sure and we have no team so when it convinced a bunch of people in the space to say in this time frame we're going to raise money and launch and start a business will you join us when we get the money and they go yeah I can we put you on our deck cool so put all the people on our deck who want our employees we had this prototype which wasn't a product but look.

[00:34:29] So it's where the poker comes in.

[00:34:31] This is just you'll say we're talking about this is a bluff all right.

[00:34:36] It's literally well these are the letters of his attraction here all the customers who said they're going to use us maybe who knows I think by now we've probably got through about 80%

[00:34:48] of those customers using us at some point so it wasn't a lie but like right there lazy late and so like and so we had the team we have the product we had traction give us money

[00:34:59] and we were able to do that relatively successfully and we entered the we launched a product like sort of seven eight months later we truly knew nothing about development

[00:35:10] so we didn't we couldn't outsource it we have to make sure we got very expensive people in house to get closer to it to try and understand it more which meant that we ran out of money very quickly.

[00:35:19] We had to raise again which wasn't planned but the second time we raised funny enough the people in my company that I was still working at by the way made up the majority of that round

[00:35:31] which is a great endorsement essentially because then when we had to VCs we're like yeah the people who I work with actually invest it so they back me they know me very well

[00:35:42] so if they want to back me with their own cash you know and we're and they're back in this enterprise they know me and Jack

[00:35:49] it gives a confidence it gives investors confidence right that if people you know are willing to back you to the hill like that people you company your boss who you currently work for and Bayzi building this thing to leave is willing to back you.

[00:36:03] Fair enough they should trust us let's let's dig in that for for a moment so I think a lot of people that listen to this show have aspirations to be where you are right and have that success

[00:36:17] when you did your friends and family round how do you approach that how do you go to friends and family and say look I want to take your retirement money I want to take your savings I want to put it in my idea because I'm amazing how do you do that and how do you process that responsibility.

[00:36:36] So I incorrectly called it friends and family because actually not a single family ever invested.

[00:36:42] I didn't ask you to do that so you did what you didn't want to pressure that's a different type of pressure right there 100% like like yeah

[00:36:53] and your own money your own losses you can live with that someone else is a holdable game and friends I would say the original the friend the people we call friends now who invested work as close back then they were like friends of friends right

[00:37:11] so they had money and back to us so like that like they're like angel investors who are friends of our friends and they've been all become quite good friends over time.

[00:37:20] Oh yeah they're not friends right now.

[00:37:22] They like us a lot.

[00:37:26] So yeah like when we came with them that's why we have to fake make it like they weren't just like it wasn't like my mom saying okay son let's support you these are actual angel investors who are looking for a term in their capital

[00:37:36] they're investing something that could yield that output right that's why the fake to make it came.

[00:37:42] And then we launched we got really good traction on the doors customers love the fact they could choose who they wanted to hire and like our springboard success was we got to do the

[00:37:52] off the party of the Star Wars premier in London.

[00:37:56] Our staff was one of the first event and it wasn't just the after party it was the VVIP area of it.

[00:38:02] And the reason they did that is because on our platform you can literally see who you're hiring you know with a temporary staffing company you got a VIP event they say oh it's going to cost you double per hour per worker all they do is send the same work as a ton of work harder.

[00:38:17] Whereas you know through us we say pay more you got a high quality worker and they could see that and they trusted it and then from then on we got we kept in all these super high profile events and that was like the springboard to our success.

[00:38:30] And there are some stories I can tell you about some VIP events we did which is a camera super interesting very funny involving celebrities manages and their wives and our workers.

[00:38:40] 100% right now you're still living in London don't do this no go down this path but and then we went down and then we started being to VCs right and the VC game was very interesting.

[00:38:57] We went out to VCs for two three months and we just got knows this is 2016 we're in you did you do it in London.

[00:39:05] For the US for the fast time London UK is so hard for SaaS software.

[00:39:12] It's not matter but at the time you were doing it it was almost impossible because they just I don't know if it's risk tolerance or just what they were accustomed to investing in manufacturing you know and all this other stuff yeah but like I had a ton of friends in the UK that would try to raise money

[00:39:29] and eventually they'd all come to the US and come this way go out to San Francisco or go to New York or any New York as well.

[00:39:37] And it wasn't the same conversation it was it was a different conversation but I think London's move I mean they get better than it was.

[00:39:46] Yeah it has a pretty good collaborative yeah and like the VC who came to only do all those program founders that probably one of the first who start moving early and like very great shout out to Rogen.

[00:39:57] But yeah it's a very different game like when we eventually went out to the US as far as raise the conversation you have a formal bullish don't necessarily always turn out to be a check.

[00:40:09] But definitely with you it's like I'm going to make money for four years got it you know there's there like at least intellectually they're with you on a model that won't be profitable for might not ever be problem like they're with you now they might not write a check but they're with you when the conversation is over.

[00:40:26] When the conversation before we wrap last question I have is the acquisition of what you can tell us how did that how did it start and what was like the hardest part of the acquisition.

[00:40:41] So I don't know how much can that both because we're holding.

[00:40:45] Don't do anything don't do anything.

[00:40:50] No no no you get trouble I don't want to get trouble.

[00:40:53] No so I will share as much of the camera that gang in trouble so we you know we'd raised that round with pro founders in 2016 for sort of 2.3 million and we got pretty good at raising from that point of words we raise another round

[00:41:09] a year and a bit later through krandom and krandom from the leading sort of series a series B funds in Europe back in Spotify.

[00:41:17] Clarner you name it like that brilliant.

[00:41:21] And then we were raising again even not intentionally but we did like some sort of like speed pitching event.

[00:41:28] And we presented this new deal that we'd won with a customer because we built essentially the sass tool that basically made us assassinate marketplace and gave us full ownership of this clients entire temporary staffing spend.

[00:41:43] And then we were like 10 million pounds a year which no one had ever done in the space before especially.

[00:41:48] And basically investors all perked up was like oh wow there's actually something here and off the back of that event we end up getting quite a competitive.

[00:41:58] And then we had a lot of success which we hadn't planned.

[00:42:01] I mean up signing a term sheet with an investor and it was the third time they tried to invest in us so like the day to you was actually called third times a chart.

[00:42:13] And it wasn't cause it actually happened in the end.

[00:42:16] And we signed this term sheet and we're doing all the due diligence and it's December 2018.

[00:42:21] And then I had a product at the time guess an email from someone in Corp David indeed same with like a demo of the product.

[00:42:27] And we thought that they were just going to try and steal our ideas because we had we had a very large traditional staffing company do the same thing a few years earlier and launch a product like few two months after we spoke to them.

[00:42:41] We're not name names but think of large staffing companies that have a lot of platforms and the party know the party know the one you're talking about.

[00:42:49] But because we had the term sheet and we're feeling pretty good about ourselves growth was good we're like yeah give them a demo and send them our deck as well.

[00:42:56] Let's see how they let's see what they think.

[00:42:59] And then the first week of January they like they want to meet.

[00:43:03] Okay, that's what we're meeting Corp Dev and head of Corp Dev.

[00:43:06] And then the following week they're like the CEO of indeed wants to meet you the next week and that's time I was deco who's now the CEO of the holding.

[00:43:13] And he comes to me this on his way back from Dallas and worst we articulate articulating on vision and we're talking about with job seeker first how we want to empower the work control and choice and democratize access to work and all these things that we didn't know recruit holdings were saying exact same thing.

[00:43:31] We let you know we had we spent zero time looking into who recruit holdings was and looking to indeed was as far as we can send indeed was just this job board.

[00:43:40] That we utilize and we just we didn't really grasp just how big they were, how big recruit was and it was only when.

[00:43:49] They said they want to invest but we ready sign the time sheet and we said we can't get you in the round for the actually wanted then quickly evolved into discussions around acquisition were like this weekend entertain.

[00:44:02] And then we flew over to Austin to meet the old leadership team Chris Himes is now the now CEO.

[00:44:10] We met them all and we just like these people are awesome.

[00:44:13] But we're in danger of saying no to a term sheet and money that's coming in probably in about a couple weeks time this is February now so a deep pass into due diligence right.

[00:44:24] And if we say no to this term sheet now go down the access route and it fails.

[00:44:30] We're in trouble yeah because we're going back to the VC market having been rejected by potential acquirer and it's not a matter of what we're saying it just tastes everything.

[00:44:39] But the trust we had in recruit holdings in indeed a time as having met them was super high and you know true to their word.

[00:44:53] They played it through they was you know they were straight down the line even when throughout the process and I don't want you to say this but throughout the process as a career where our numbers went down.

[00:45:04] And we fully thought they'd come back and put a haircut right and would have been well with them they're right didn't happen.

[00:45:13] And they're trying and then I mean during that period that's when my great hair started because me and Jack the we know that we love PR but we did a lot of PR figure will say after you are on the name we were all we were in every out and as at the BBC.

[00:45:29] We had we had very stupidly told our employees who were all shareholders at the time that we had this offer.

[00:45:39] And so the pressure of making sure that deal went through when I was 10 X because nobody was it just like survival company it was also now we've set these expectations for everyone else.

[00:45:52] And so they're going to be like literally so it was like why did we tell anyone what a white.

[00:46:01] Three three Bentley's I don't know let me get one of each color yeah yeah yeah excitement behind it all.

[00:46:07] We were we're not even do it again would never tell the soul basically deliciously me and Jack and like the finance who was leading finance at the time just like.

[00:46:18] We know and so yeah we join indeed and they've just basically super charged us they're giving us all the autonomy that we need we've leveraged and integrated where it makes sense.

[00:46:32] The best one of the best moments was literally you know we got acquired May first or May 31st 2019 guess what happened eight months later.

[00:46:44] We lost happy shut down we lost 95% of our revenue overnight and you know indeed is really is really people fast and they said okay you don't have to fire people you can leverage a fellow programs or turn your team.

[00:46:58] Go take advantage of the chaos and we perfectly very aggressive all our existing workers and we put them into retail delivery warehouses and just like he also thing was not any do we get to help our own employees.

[00:47:12] We've got to put all these hospitality workers into jobs in these large retailers and large who needed work there and then and not only were we able to give them a foot like we're able to give our temporary workers fellow.

[00:47:24] I think we were probably the only staffing company in the UK that gave temporary workers follow access to the level that we did and that was all because of being backed by indeed.

[00:47:37] Your vision truly can't walk off the stage no but first of all we can talk to you forever but I know you've got stuff to do like work and.

[00:47:48] Thank you so much for coming on the show man just.

[00:47:52] Thank you very much.

[00:47:54] Your energy positivity and the story was remarkable.