AI is Changing Work

[00:00:01] The world of work is changing. AI, automation, and technology are reshaping how we find jobs, build careers, and connect. But behind every resume and career transition is a human story, and the mental and emotional impact is real. This is Ghosted by the Machine. This is Ghosted by the Machine. I'm your host, Mark Lane. Let's get into it.

[00:00:28] Today, we're talking with someone who's looking at the future of work from a completely different perspective. Riley Stang is building tools that identify emerging culture trends before they become mainstream, exploring the intersection of AI, creativity, music, and the community shaping what's next. Riley, welcome to Ghosted by the Machine. Hey, thanks, Mark, for having me. So before we get into AI and the future of work and all this gobbledygook, tell us a little bit about yourself.

[00:00:57] You've had an interesting journey, and now you're building something around culture, emerging trends. Get here. Yeah, so I'm Riley Stang. I'm a father. I used to co-own a coffee shop, and I've been circling around software and AI for years now, and I'm starting to get a real traction with the technology as it's become easier to use. And right now, I'm in a pretty real transition season myself.

[00:01:27] I'm doing Uber to keep things moving financially while I build Exist Intrinsic, which is my podcast and research project, and Carry Clip, which is the AI systems side of what I've been working on. And a big part of what drives me is being a father. I'm not looking at AI only as a business opportunity or a technology shift.

[00:01:50] I'm thinking about the world that my son is going to grow up in and what we need to build so people can stay stable, connected, and fully human as work changes. And that's, again, why Exist Intrinsic matters to me. It's my way of exploring the human side of this transition while also building towards something practical, the tools, the conversations, and eventually real-world models that help people adapt without losing their dignity,

[00:02:20] their relationships, and their sense of purpose. So, Riley, when you look at the world of work today, what's something you're seeing that most of us probably are? So what I think people may be missing right now is that the future of work isn't just about work. I've experienced firsthand how much life depends on work being stable. Housing, confidence, family planning, health care, belonging, and a sense of purpose.

[00:02:48] When work becomes unstable, the impact is not just financial. It becomes psychological and social. And AI is making that more visible. It's accelerating a breakdown that was already happening. And with the fragmenting income and the high housing costs, and we have now the loneliness epidemic and collapsing career ladders. And so the bigger question for me is, what kind of life infrastructure do we need if work becomes less reliable? Like, what do you think, Mark?

[00:03:18] Well, I believe that work is becoming less personal, less human. And that's why I started the show, Ghosted by the Machine, because I felt in my career search, I was missing that. I was, you know, I tried networking with people, but after a while, that tends to go dead. You know, you can only, you know, you get your friends, you get your network, and you're constantly contacting them, trying to, hey, help me, help me, help me. But I was losing that personal element.

[00:03:47] And it was no longer, I wouldn't say a friendly conversation with my friends and network. It was more or less, I was impatient and vulnerable at the same time. I needed their help, you know, and they only could do so much. So that's part of my psyche, that mental, that mental anguish that I was going through.

[00:04:09] And that's something we got to, that's something that a lot of job seekers or candidates are experiencing now. It's like that grieving process of a death. You have to go through that process. Yeah, that's completely understandable. Like, I've gone through that myself. Like, what am I going to do for work?

[00:04:32] And like, right now, I'm super grateful that Uber has developed to the point of where it's, you know, it's stable and steady and gives me that flexibility. So I can also be building these projects on the side, and I want them to become less side projects. And that's another reason why I'm leveraging AI so that I can have them building things and producing things in the background. And that's part of what CarryClip does as well.

[00:05:01] Tell me a little bit about CarryClip. And is it something that a job seeker could utilize? Yeah, I initially designed it to be a way for you to have multiple different kinds of AI agents that have different sets of skills and are highly specialized, and they can work together to work on one single project or goal or whatever.

[00:05:29] Instead of some people have these agents that are bloated with too many skills and it's inefficient. It confuses the AI systems. And so for a job seeker, depending on what platforms they use, like I know LinkedIn is kind of not very friendly towards AI agents at this point. I think the AI use of LinkedIn is mostly people copy-pasting from something into something.

[00:05:59] There's still a human in the loop there. But for a job seeker, they could have it look over their resume. I mean, these are things that you can do with ChatGPT, but the most powerful thing is that one part of the system can look online and do research and look for job postings, maybe in different websites that don't block robots. And then can make a resume that's tailored to that job listing and potentially even apply for them.

[00:06:29] And you don't have to go through these websites that exist in existence right now that do it for you because there's got to be some cut they're taking out of that. So this is more a system that you could use and you're mostly just paying inference costs or the consultation with me to get you started. And that's primarily how I'm going to implement this.

[00:06:54] I want it to be something where somebody, they could be completely clueless with how to do any of this stuff with AI agents because there is a lot of work right now building it. We're like with AI, we're like in the 90s for this new technology. Like remember the 90s when personal computers were becoming more popular and people were amazed by it, but there were still limitations. There was still a lot of friction.

[00:07:22] There was still a lot of bugs and inefficiencies. And we're in that stage right now where we can really be building it. And there's no AI bubble. I don't believe in an AI bubble. It's one of those, just like there was supposedly a dot-com bubble and there might be some, there's going to be some losers. And I would equate it to what happened with the railroads. You know, the losers, unfortunately, were the early investors.

[00:07:48] And then later the people who inherit all that existing infrastructure, they pick up all the pieces. And actually that's us, you know, so-called ordinary folks. We're the ones that can come in and pick up the pieces and make use of the existing infrastructure to our advantage. So this, this led us perfectly into the next question. So you're on the job search and you're building this AI platform.

[00:08:14] How has living through both of those experiences changed the way you think about where AI is taking us? Hmm. So yeah, it's, it's caused me to look at it from both sides. On one side, AI has been a huge unlock for me. I can organize ideas, research faster, write, you know, come up with talking points for a podcast. Yeah.

[00:08:42] Build workflows, like that's what Kerry Clip does. And make progress on things that I probably couldn't have done alone. You know, I mean, maybe I could have, but it would have taken me years to, to get to where I am today. This, this is an insane leverage for people to, to just amplify your intelligence. It's, you know, it's Mo Goddart talks about this being intelligence on tap. Intelligence is now a utility.

[00:09:09] We just plug into our provider of choice and we, if you know how to use it right, electricity can kill you, but it can also be used for a powerful tool to, to build amazing things. And, and when you're going through the job search, you know, you can use those tools to amplify your, your effectiveness. And, and I, I think it's, it's about working smarter.

[00:09:37] Like, and I think part of that is how do we build something that allows people to leverage that and more accurately target the employers that are looking for them. Right now it's more, the job seekers have to cast this wide net.

[00:09:56] And, and it's very wasteful too, if you think about it, think about all the tokens being spent to just, just blanket, just cover all these, these jobs, all these, you know, companies that are probably not a good fit for the, the candidate for various reasons.

[00:10:14] Well, if you've heard the show, you know, I've talked to job seekers that have applied for thousands of jobs, you know, they've got this program or they just hit a button and it sends out, you know, a hundred a day, you know, then they're going through developing all the, their, their resumes, trying to use the same keywords as the, the jobs, the, the job description says. And they're going through that process every single time.

[00:10:41] And it's like winning the lottery because you're up, you're up against someone else. My AI is against your AI and who's going to win. And they're receiving thousands of resumes used to be, if, you know, there was a job here at, you know, the safe Ford motor here in Detroit area where I live. And I applied for that job. You would probably be dealing with, you know, 50 people in Southeastern Michigan.

[00:11:03] You're not, you're not dealing with people all over the country because now these jobs are remote and people from all over the continental United States can apply for it. So they're receiving a thousand resumes in the first day. And then they've got to sort through those. Now, now one person's going to be sorting through them. Those it's going to be the ATS cheese grater going through them. So it's a, it's a problem of, it's kind of a chicken or the egg situation.

[00:11:31] What came first? The thousands of resumes getting, having to get sent out by each person or the filtering system being so broken and restrictive. Because if you think about it, these ATS systems were built before these highly intelligent neural networks were, were being deployed. It was probably a lot more of it, just more procedural keyword based, you know, very low end AI.

[00:12:00] It wasn't even, I wouldn't even consider it AI. What if you have transferable skills? What if you work in a nonprofit sector and you wanted to go into corporate world and you have all the basics to, to, to get that job in the corporate world. But you're not being looked at because you've got this keyword that doesn't fit what they're looking for. Yeah. There's no, there's no Harvard in your resume. Right. Exactly. Exactly. You know, they told me when you started in, in your career, they would say, learn as much as you can build your toolkit.

[00:12:30] Try to get as much experience as you can. Well, experience in some cases is looked at as a red mark. Like, oh, you've got 20 years experience. Oh my God. You're overqualified. You're overqualified. That means we got to pay you more. It's like you're in the Goldilocks zone. It's like, why, why do they make that assumption? What if, what if someone wants to kind of start over in a different industry and is okay with climbing the ladder?

[00:12:58] They don't have to get paid a bunch and you, the company benefits from that added soft skills that are transferred, you know? And it's, it's just, it's, it's ridiculous. And, and I think about how AI is, would be great at identifying transferable skills. Cause it's, it's all about looking at the patterns, looking at what things have in common.

[00:13:22] And they, I just, I think right now that if, if we can look at it as how do we improve the application processing systems and, and making it something that is equally beneficial to the employer and the employee and helping to show corporations of any size, whether you're a small startup to, you know, a multinational mega corporation.

[00:13:49] That if you let it be where people are just these untapped potentials of, of life experience, of soft skills, of taste, of things that you can't get from even the most mega giant, you know, fable five from Anthropic. You can't get it from that. You get it from a person that's lived real life. And because there always has to be a human in the loop for it to benefit humanity.

[00:14:17] As corporations pull people out of their, of their roster and replace them with agents, the corporation becomes less beneficial to the common man and more beneficial to the shareholders. And that is an inequality that is unsustainable for the rest of our world and our civilization.

[00:14:40] And that's why I see people as a force multiplier, as the core, they're like the power core. And without people watching over what the AI is doing, it's going to go off the rails. Doesn't matter how many harnesses you have. Doesn't matter how many frameworks you put in place. If there's not a person looking over it. I mean, this is something I saw that was happening with, there's this game engine called Godot.

[00:15:09] And they have a strict policy, which I think is a little extreme, but I can understand their knee jerk reaction. Strict, like your code must not be AI generated. It has to be at least human authored. It could be debugged by NAA. But they have this strict policy because they're getting so much quote unquote AI slop pull requests on their GitHub that they have to like just put a hard clamp on it. And I get it.

[00:15:36] And that's an example of where there has to be a person looking over everything. Sure. Well, a lot of people are nervous about AI replacing jobs. When someone tells you they're worried about where they fit into the future of work, what do you tell them? Yeah, it's their anxiety is understandable. You know, things are really changing. And we can't just wave that away with slogans and catchphrases.

[00:16:04] And we also can't confuse labor market instability with someone's value as a human being. Because we're seeing how the market right now is failing to know where to place people. And that does not mean that people are obsolete. AI is not making humans obsolete.

[00:16:23] It's just showing how valuable they truly are, where their value truly lies in their empathy, in their compassion, in their ability to quantify the work that the AI is doing. Imagine an industry where the AI is writing something that is tailored for a human audience. Do you think that would be effective if there's not a human looking over the output before it gets cleared?

[00:16:53] No, it will. Then I think we probably are seeing some examples of this where they're just AIs that are just allowed to just blab whatever they want on social media. Yeah, I mean, there's programs that I am learning how to use that I can go in and say, I need a month worth of content. These are the days I want to put it out there. This is the messaging I'm looking for. And I need X, Y, and Z platforms developed.

[00:17:22] They've got my branding. They've got all the background marketing information. And it will then produce the content. I have to go back in and check it to make sure you should see today, see if they've got, you know, this and that and the right graphic and blah, blah, blah. But still, that takes, that to me is amazing because that used to take hours to develop. Now it takes, yeah, now going over it takes maybe an hour.

[00:17:51] Yeah, you would need, you would need an immense entire staff of writers. Yeah, writers, graphic design. Okay, these are the posts. I need these graphics developed. I need this. You know, think about Canva came along. Now there's, you know, all these AI agents who don't even need Canva because you could take the information you get from your chat GPT, your perplexity, whatever, and plop it into Canva and say, this is what I need. And then Canva does it for it. Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:20] Yeah, and again, you know, touching on that, any graphic designers or writers out there, don't panic. You may already be panicking, but it's okay because actually you can become an even more prolific writer and prolific graphic designer when you use these tools with your subject matter expertise. You are going to recognize garbage and bad writing and AI slop better than anyone. Garbage in, garbage out.

[00:18:50] Yeah, and we all have to trust our intuition and our instinct. Like, when I was going over my talking points for this podcast, I had to iterate several times to get the kind of voice that I wanted. Like, I know my voice, but it's like we all now, we all get to be a CEO and we have our writer that's sitting there and they're just telling us the script. And we're like, no, change that part, you know? And it's like amazing.

[00:19:20] We all, it's like, I think of that, like thinking positive. How can AI empower us to enter positions that we could have never even dreamed of? Right. And this is, you know, I know it's like a hype thing, but, you know, they say it's the era of the solopreneur.

[00:19:37] And it's possible, but I, and I, I'm trying to be one of those myself, but I think that how do we, how do we empower people to reenter the workforce and network people together to where their skill sets can align on the projects that, that work well for their skill sets and the companies.

[00:20:01] And their subject matter and finding ways that they get paid a fair amount based on their contribution and their experience while not just dismissing somebody because they don't have enough experience or they have too much experience. And it's, I think it's a, it's a problem that has been exacerbated by AI. It's already existed before AI.

[00:20:27] And I believe it's a problem that can be remedied with AI if applied in a very specific pointed manner with the right outcomes. Well, that's going to, that's going to be a leadership problem or question. They're the ones that are going to have to, to make, make amends to this. But I just read this recent article is in the BBC.

[00:20:51] Ford is rehiring human engineers after AI fails to match quality checks for their product. Now that the forces it's hired back some human engineers after AI failed to match their skills and experience. Think about that. Not surprised. Because a billion dollar global company has to look back and say, okay, we've made a huge mistake there. We've got to bring these, we've got to bring the human element back to our process.

[00:21:19] They're not the only company that's done that recently. And it's, it's, it's good. It's good to see that. And it's just like what I was saying earlier, we always need a human in the loop. Humans have to be the, I think the, that we are the fulcrum. We're the pivot point of the leverage. We can't just take that, that little triangle. We can't take that out. Then it's just a board stuck on the ground. We are there. And the, that's the leverage.

[00:21:48] AI is that, that board that, that pivots on the fulcrum. And we always have to be there. Otherwise there's nothing. It's just flat. There's no progress. It's, it's unhinged. It's, it's chaos. We, we, it's like, we're, we're, we're like the herders, you know? And I sometimes do feel like dealing with AI. It's like herding a bunch of cats, you know? And I, you know, that's why I'm building Carry Clip.

[00:22:16] So I, I can create helpers and validators and more deterministic things that validate the outputs at every stage. And so that it can, it can create good products. And I've been really excited seeing how, like, it, it would just create amazing, like, scripts for YouTube videos as one example and prepping for a podcast. Like, it, it was, it's really amazing what it was doing. And I wasn't even using any frontier models.

[00:22:46] I was just using, like, a Quen 3.5 on my GPU, which, I mean, was slow, but it worked, you know? So one of the things we talk about, and this comes from our conversation, is, is making hiring human again. As more of our work or even the hiring process becomes automated, what do you think we risk losing? And on the flip side, what still gives you hope about where all of this is headed? Yeah, we, we risk losing, we risk losing our humanity.

[00:23:16] We risk losing, as, as Ford just showed, we risk losing quality. Right. Because if the products are for humans, then a human is the only element that's going to know if it's good. You know, an AI might be able to be trained on optimal engineering practices and, and different things, but it could create something that is just way off left field that no one's going to relate to. And we need that human element to review.

[00:23:45] There always needs to be a human reviewer and, and also a human instigator. And, and so, you know, like hiring is becoming way too automated right now. It's all, I think it's been automated for, for over a decade, maybe 15 years. I'm trying to think of when that first moment was when the ATS systems became really prolific, but it's, it's, it's been, it's just been painful for people to get ghosted by the machine.

[00:24:14] And it's, it's really, really awesome name for your podcast. It really captures that essence. And, and I think. Here's another stat. Get this one. Yeah. You've heard of Gartner, correct? Yes. So 55% of employees regret the decision to replace people with machines. And they're saying, Gartner saying that half of AI jobs will be replaced by 2027, that,

[00:24:43] that this is going to reverse in the next year. Do you think that's where we're headed? You think that could happen? I think what we're, what we're seeing is we're seeing AI no longer being seen as a replacement, but being seen as a supplement, as a new tool, as again, a force multiplier and allowing for companies to just exponentially increase their productivity and their output.

[00:25:12] I mean, I think robotics advancements are one part of that, but I don't think that everybody on the factory line needs to be replaced. But if we, if we have robots building cars faster for cheaper, then that's, that's a, that's a benefit for everybody. As long as the price of the cars actually do go down and that benefits people. But there also needs to be a fact that we can have more employees.

[00:25:37] Imagine if Ford now has the resources to hire 10 times more people because there's 10 times more productivity than more jobs are created. That's, that's the optimal scenario. And then also the quality of life in those jobs are better. They're not grueling drudgery for 12 hour shifts. They are, they're just, you know, checking the work, keeping it in line, you know, compliance.

[00:26:07] You might have better workers because they're satisfied in their job. They could, they could chances are being, be more creative in their job and add more to that, that wheel, that hamster wheel of job and to where they're more productive. Yes. And also like they're, they're more free to be creative because there's the AI in itself can be there as a risk mitigator to, to kind of like, you can type something into chat GPT

[00:26:37] right now. And you've ever had it say something like, oh, well, uh, be careful about this. You know, that, that could, that could make somebody, uh, go off the deep end or it like I've, I've had it like, like kind of give me a perspective. I never even thought about. And like, and so I think of, of you can have, I think probably at least AI can be a great assistant

[00:27:01] compliance officer just to, to make sure that everybody is, you know, following company policies and, you know, kind of watching over things in a, you know, in a good way. So if, if, if you could leave job seekers with one piece of advice for preparing for the future of war, what would it be? So right now what I'm seeing in the world, and it's, it's something that I have the biggest

[00:27:28] problem with, and I'd like to see changed and I'm changing it with myself first is that everyone is in a scarcity mindset that, that life is a zero sum game and that there's always winners and losers and that there's never enough to go around. And what differs, and I believe most people from the wealthiest of the wealthy to the poorest of the poor, they put themselves on one end of the story. Am I the winner? Am I the loser?

[00:27:57] And I want to challenge people to think bigger. What can I do to become a focus point for abundance? And starting, starting in here, starting in the mindset, starting, you know, we change the world through ourselves first. I'm sure I'm paraphrasing some spiritual guru.

[00:28:22] And, and by starting there, you see, you see a better quality of life within yourself. And I tell you, just go on YouTube. There's so many great mindset people that, that help you change your perspective of yourself, first within. And then everything around you shifts. And that's, that's what I'm building everything out of is this abundance within myself and

[00:28:49] seeing that the AI is just becoming a tool to expand and, and proliferate that abundance. And I want to see other people go, go inward first. Like, just, just take a deep breath. Just, just start, stop panicking. And I know it's hard to, to, to hear me say that for some people, but I know I've been that. I've been there.

[00:29:16] I've been in those circumstances of what in the world is happening. What am I going to do to make money? But if you sit and just, just take a breath and just allow the thoughts to pass, you'll, you'll begin to hear that voice, that small voice in your mind. And you'll get ideas. You'll, you'll just naturally go there. And it doesn't take a long process.

[00:29:43] You can go into whatever AI you want and start talking about things you're interested in. Or, and that's how I started with CarryClip. It started with just conversations with ChatGPT. And then I started having it document everything and, and started keeping a little mini library of Markdown files. And it's really good at that, like creating documentation and make sure that's the biggest thing. When you have ideas, write them down.

[00:30:11] And, and then you can go into, if you're, if your idea is a software idea, which is a great thing nowadays. It's so accessible now. Anybody can build software. Then you can take that documentation and, and start a project of your choice. Well, Riley, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your perspective today. It's been a great conversation. And I think conversations like this are important because they remind us while technology will continue to evolve, the future work will always be about people.

[00:30:41] So if you're watching or listening and thinking, Hey, that sounds like me. You're not alone. And if you'd like to share your story, feel free to email me or send me a DM. And if you want to stay plugged into the real stories, real insights and humans behind today's hiring system, make sure to follow and subscribe. We've got new episodes, shorts and conversations every week. And if your organization believes in making hiring human again, which we all are hoping and want to support conversations like this, we're opening a few sponsorship spots. So feel free to reach out.

[00:31:09] I'm Mark Lane, and this is Ghosted by the Machine because behind every application, there's a human. Let's make hiring human again. Riley, thanks again, my friend. Have a wonderful day. Thank you so much, Mark. I just wanted to say I have a few websites. I've got RileyStang.com. I've got ExistIntrinsic.org for my podcast and CarrieClip.com for CarrieClip. Thank you so much. It's been great. You got it, Riley. We'll have those up on the website also.

[00:31:38] So have a great day. Bye.