How to Build Wealth from Nothing: Building Online Communities

[00:00:00] I'm Felicia Shakiba, and this is CPO Playbook, where we solve a business challenge in every episode.

[00:00:21] Today we're diving into the transformative skill of building social communities within the marketing function, an essential yet often misunderstood tool for strengthening brands and supporting organizational growth. Joining us is Mayan Gordon, a visionary entrepreneur and social media expert with over one billion video views and more than two million followers on TikTok.

[00:00:47] Mayan's journey from starting with just $36 and a bold idea to mastering the art of community building has given her a unique perspective on how organizations can leverage social engagement to create sustainable brands and meaningful connections. She's here to share her insights on turning social communities into powerful assets for businesses. Mayan, welcome to the show. It's so great to see you.

[00:01:14] Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited for our discussion today. You know, this has been a culmination of, as you mentioned, a very long and strange and nonlinear journey. But I really feel that, you know, I'm now in the space that I'm going to be working in for, you know, hopefully the rest of my career and the rest of my life.

[00:01:33] Well, we are thrilled to have you. And I think everyone who's listening has a burning question, which is how did you begin with just $36 to become a leading expert in social media? Yeah. So I think the simple answer is it was all the money I had. So I had to work with that. But really, you know, there's a there's a good story kind of behind the whole journey.

[00:01:59] Me and my husband, who was my boyfriend at the time, we were actually homeless living out of this like super broke down RV in Los Angeles. And I was doing a little bit of copywriting work online.

[00:02:14] So I was bringing in, you know, a little trickle of money to pay for like gas and, you know, to move our RV around so we didn't get towed, you know, a little bit of food and, you know, had had this $36 saved up, so to speak. And we basically went into the library every single day and we're just doing research for what's a business we could actually start with less than $100.

[00:02:39] And we came up with this idea for a product called Diffuser Beads because my husband had worked at a smoke shop when I met him up in Seattle, Washington. And so he knew the, you know, stoner kind of cannabis space really, really well. And we just basically went through and thought, what are the items that are really popular that people would buy in your smoke shop? And is there any way that we could create a product that would be, you know, similar to something people already had a desire for, but better?

[00:03:08] Than what was existing on the market. And there was this one product called Stones Diffusion, which were basically black and white glass marbles that people would pour into their bongs to diffuse the smoke and make it like a softer, you know, percolation and like less harsh on their throat. The problem was these were stoners. And so they wouldn't think before pouring these heavy glass marbles into their glass bongs and the bottoms would get smashed out.

[00:03:35] And they would come back into the store and complain, hey, that product I bought from you guys broke my like $150, $200 bong. And they'd be very upset. So we thought, you know, if we could come up with something that wasn't going to break people's pieces and if it came in different colors, well, that's going to be a much better product. And so we just like searched and looked for something we could source that already existed.

[00:04:00] And we found that we could get airsoft BBs in multiple colors, including glow in the dark, which I knew was a for sure sell in the stoner crowd. And because we were in Los Angeles, it was very easy to source, you know, product and material. They get all sorts of things that that get shipped in, you know, and distributed at like wholesaler distributor pricing. And so we had no idea, you know, from a testing the marketplace standpoint, if this would work.

[00:04:29] But we had $36. We said there's not much we can really lose out here by giving it a try. And our backs were really kind of against the wall. So we just put together a very, you know, unpolished product. We got 36 jars with lids, like little plastic jars. Got this one bag of airsoft BBs, printed a label using, you know, address labels from Home Depot, using the library's printer.

[00:04:55] And we walked with a box of 36 jars of diffuser beads to like four or five different smoke shops that were, you know, walkable distance from our RV where it was parked. And, you know, on the fourth or fifth one, they said, sure, we'll take the whole box. And we went, we did it. We have a real business. Wow. I mean, I've heard a lot of people starting businesses in their garage. Yours is the first that I've heard starting a business in a library. But I also feel like that makes so much more sense.

[00:05:24] So good for you for figuring that out. And I want to kind of also just double highlight the fact that you have gained 1 billion video views, which is really not just luck. This is clearly a strategy. So what roles like what role does building a social community play in shaping and supporting a brand?

[00:05:51] Because this was this is basically your your place where you were like, OK, I need to sell right your product. So you turn to social media. Is that right? A hundred percent. Yeah. Basically, again, we didn't have a marketing budget and social media. So I guess to give more context, we started this business back in 2011. So, you know, there there wasn't a lot going on in terms of, you know, anything outside of paid advertising that we could tap into.

[00:06:21] Besides social media, it was the really the only free option in terms of being able to reach people and communicate with them. And, you know, starting out, I really I didn't know what I was doing. It was a lot of like product pictures. It really I didn't start out necessarily so much with the notion of building community. But I would say our sales, you know, with that business and all future businesses were always driven by human interaction and human interaction is the basis of of community.

[00:06:49] And so, you know, I was already starting from that place of I wasn't leveraging Amazon or, you know, a platform that was driving its own traffic. I had to be the one to to really drive that traffic and think of different ways to connect with people. And what really was a big, you know, shift in transition for me from going from just, you know, kind of product focused marketing to more of that community and social centric marketing was probably I think 2014 or 2015.

[00:07:18] I started doing Instagram stories where I was talking to the audience. They were like, you know, selfie just clips of me sharing, you know, my my experience as a business owner, sharing, you know, stuff about not just the product, but like my thoughts on the product and like why we picked, you know, this option versus a different option. And, you know, sharing, starting to share stories of, you know, customers that I was working with.

[00:07:45] And it it just naturally evolved kind of over the course of, you know, really a decade to to be where I am now. Wow. OK, so as soon as you started kind of creating that transparency of what was going on behind the scenes, that's where you felt like things were picking up. Yeah, that made a huge, huge difference, not only in terms of like our sales.

[00:08:10] So our business that did, you know, the most amount of sales was our glass blowing business, which was our third business together. And, you know, glass art is not a necessity, right? It's not like solving a pain point in the same way that, you know, like supplements or, you know, fitness equipment are solving a more, you know.

[00:08:35] So. Concrete pain point art is something that, you know, fills maybe a, you know, something we need in our soul or our heart, but it's not so perceived as a necessity. On top of that, art's not a consumable. So, like, the diffuser beads were technically a consumable because they'd get dirty and people would have to replace them. So, like, when we got one customer, they were going to come back at some point. You know, pretty much all the customers loved our product.

[00:09:02] And so they were going to repurchase, you know, every so often. Same thing. Our second business was custom stickers that we did for like businesses and T-shirts. And so they would run out of stickers and order more stickers. But with art, it's not quite the same thing.

[00:09:17] And so it was really when I started sharing, like you said, the behind the scenes and creating that transparency, that relatability and also just a different level of connection that we saw people become like serial art buyers with us, like collectors of our art. And it wasn't because our art was so good. And, you know, I think, again, art's subjective. And I'm certainly not saying that, like, we were terrible artists. But from a technical standpoint, right, we were like brand new artists.

[00:09:46] We couldn't do all of the cool techniques and like crazy skills that some of the artists who'd been blowing glass for, you know, 10, 20 years could do. Objectively, their art was much better. But we often had, you know, customers who were purchasing from us much more frequently and, you know, just spending a lot more money because of that human connection. Hey, everybody. It's Libby again with fearlessness. So what's fearlessness? It's that underlying grit that empowers us to forge ahead, even when hope seems distant.

[00:10:16] It's the courage to walk through those fires of hell, knowing that we're going to come out better and stronger on the other side. Stay tuned and learn how to get fearlessness. We'll be right back. Back to the show. Interesting.

[00:10:34] OK, so so I want to talk about something else because that organizations particularly struggle with, which is really in line with what you're talking about, what you're saying, which is around short term marketing tactics. Right. We think about we want to build our brand on social media. This will take this is the long term piece.

[00:10:53] But what short term marketing tactics can businesses shift to to focus more on immediate sales to then building that long term sustainable brand through social communities? Yeah, no, this is a really good point.

[00:11:10] And I think it's a huge pain point and kind of like misconception that I still hear all the time from, you know, whether it's a large organization or, you know, solopreneur that's building their brand online is, you know, when when they share with me, like, what would you like to happen from your efforts on social media? Well, I want a lot of people to see my videos or my content and then they'll want to buy my product or my service.

[00:11:36] And it really doesn't work that way outside of like late night Facebook ad impulse buys or write like Amazon. If you're going to Amazon, it's because you have a particular product in mind that you're looking to purchase. When people are on social media, they're browsing. They're not searching for something specific typically. And of course, there's that that's a, you know, blanket statement. People do go to TikTok to search for information.

[00:12:03] But but generally people are going to to browse and be like passive consumers. And so they're not in a purchasing mindset when they open. You don't open up, you know, LinkedIn or Instagram going, I can't wait to buy something. Right. Right. And so the you know, there has to be this extra component which drives the immediate results and actually contributes better to you building the brand through your content. These two things go really well hand in hand.

[00:12:32] And that thing that's missing from so many organizations in their execution that drives those immediate results is direct engagement. So not relying on the one to many content that you're posting out there, but really having direct messaging outreach. And this is something that is very nuanced because there's obviously a lot of automation in organizations doing direct messaging outreach very, very poorly.

[00:13:00] So to caveat, it has to be done well.

[00:13:30] We can pick up so many subtle things, especially when there's repetition. So as a very, you know, kind of like subtle example, the beginning, let's say you're reaching out to someone you've never talked to before, like cold outreach. But let's say you're, you know, they're following you or connected to you on the platform. So they're not maybe a complete stranger. They've had at least one like visual interaction with you through through your profile, your content. Starting out and saying, so what challenges are you facing?

[00:13:59] Feels like I'm trying to trick you into a sales conversation. Right. It doesn't actually feel genuine and authentic. I do feel that. I do feel that actually. I felt it right here in this area.

[00:14:12] So, yeah, I mean, in contrast to starting out talking about someone's challenges or asking them a question that doesn't make them feel necessarily connected to you, starting out instead and mimicking something that would be a more normal conversation starter that you might have in person. Right. So there's a bunch of different styles of these. I would say a good one are conversations that relate to a particular time of the year.

[00:14:41] So, for example, New Year's just happened, you know, less than a month ago. It's super common when we're in person to ask each other, like, how their New Year's going? How are their holidays? You know, how was last year for them? Things like that actually through social media can feel really authentic. And again, there's going to be a portion, no matter how good your messaging is, where people respond poorly to your message.

[00:15:06] And that's because people really are in a portion of people are in a default mindset when they enter social media that everyone's spammy. Everyone's trying to sell them something. And so they're going to filter any message off from someone that they don't know yet through that lens. And there is a trick, though, if someone responds, let's say you send a message, you say, hey, you know, thanks so much for being connected or thanks so much for following me. I just wanted to check in and see how's your New Year going? Like, what are you excited about this year?

[00:15:36] And they respond and they, you know, say something along the lines of I'm not interested in whatever you have to sell. Right. Like maybe that's that's their their direct response. You go, that's no problem. I don't have anything to sell you. I just wanted to get to know you a little better. And sometimes that'll work to open them up and they'll go, OK, well, I'll at least give this person a chance in conversation. Sometimes it won't. And they'll go, no, everyone's here to sell something. I don't believe you. And that's fine. Not 100 percent.

[00:16:06] None of us can reach 100 percent, you know, of all our messages having the impact that we want. I would say the other tactic that's very practical to have direct messaging outreach as as you're getting more and more into the conversation. Be effective is to share details and ask details. So a lot of times people go way to general and surface level and someone will share something.

[00:16:32] They'll say, hey, you know, I'm actually I'm really excited because last year my revenue doubled in this year. I'm launching a book. And then someone will go, great. Now I'm going to move on and go to the ask or the sell or the CTA. OK, awesome. Like, I'd love to hop on a call with you and talk about blah, blah, blah. It's a little bit early. Instead, ask some deepening questions around that. Be like, wow, that's really incredible. How did you double your revenue? Like what strategies did you use? And like, what's your book about?

[00:17:02] That's so exciting. So asking detail questions and then sharing details. So saying that's amazing. You two extra revenue. What were some strategies you use? I've been trying a couple of new strategies and I've actually been struggling to see what works a little or, you know, I've thought about writing a book, but I haven't done it yet because I just can't block out the time. How did you find the time to actually write your book?

[00:17:26] So have a conversation where you are really communicating genuine curiosity. And that's one of the most powerful things that you can do online because people are highly not curious and more in that kind of like, you know, hunter gatherer mode. So what I'm hearing from you is curiosity and reciprocity like this risk.

[00:17:53] You know, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. But really, it's like I'm going to be vulnerable and tell you some details. Now, I'd love for you to be vulnerable and tell me some details. And we get to that's how we get to know each other and kind of open the door of communication. Is that kind of a fair analogy? That's a great. And you worded it so well because reciprocity and curiosity kind of like they sound very nice together. I pinged that, right?

[00:18:22] But it was the but the mind was all my on. OK, so let's make sure we give credit where credit's due. OK, we make a good team. We do. As an example, that that tactic is so powerful. It can work when someone responds with like a one or three word response. So let's say you send, you know, an initial message or you send a message in the middle of the conversation and you ask. Sometimes this happens.

[00:18:47] You'll ask like three questions and the person will respond to none of them in their response. Just share some stuff. And it could be literally almost about anything. And it really can open up people to going, oh, like there's no reason they would be sharing information like this if all they wanted was to get something from me. And.

[00:19:11] Technically, if you were, I guess, sociopathic, you could use all of these strategies completely detached as, you know, just complete manipulation. But I think most people like once you start, you know, using words and creating sentences of curiosity, you'll feel curious.

[00:19:28] So part of this is really about activating your own human emotion and like the humanness inside you so that it can thrive and flourish in an online space where it's not designed to really have you operate that way. And that's something that can turn social media from feeling icky for a lot of people into something that feels really rewarding and fulfilling.

[00:19:51] And I can tell you, again, even as someone who has been active on social media for a very, very long time and genuinely, I want to connect with people. Genuinely, I care about people. Still, almost every time I open a social media app, it creates that icky feeling of like, I don't want to be here. This is a stupid game no one wants to play.

[00:20:10] And so I have to use specific language and, you know, take particular actions that are maybe the actions that require more effort to activate that component inside me. So why a lot of organizations don't do this is it takes more effort than having an automation system. It takes more thoughtfulness than having one message you send to everyone. It's exactly the same thing. But it feels much better.

[00:20:40] Yeah, it feels better. Right. And then, you know, I think that feeling that energy is kind of has like this rippling effect, I would assume. And, you know, I mean, you know, humans are intuitive. Right. I mean, we can pick up on things. Now, I want to kind of take this concept and think about like what the long lasting like commitment to change is.

[00:21:01] Like how can marketing professionals leverage this strategy and these tactics to drive both brand loyalty and then organizational growth? Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's a big difference between, you know, finding shortcuts and optimizing. And so I think when you ask what is the commitment for me, when I think about what are the commitments I make to myself and to the people that I'm working with and trying to serve?

[00:21:59] I think that that's the thing that creates scalability. I think, you know, being able to create a brand that people feel connected with. And that's that's how all of these really, really large brands that last were built. And you can build anyone can build a huge brand that, you know, skyrockets and stays there for one or two years and then, you know, fizzles out or disappears into nothingness. And that doesn't require that that connection.

[00:22:28] But a brand that's going to last for decades and people are going to love and make like a part of their their life. Right. And get like matching track tracksuits of like the brand logo or like all the crazy things people do. I currently live in Alabama and they have what's the name of that gas station that people are like crazy for? I'm blanking on it now. The Alabama gas station. I don't know. Whoever's watching and is from the south will know exactly what I'm talking about.

[00:22:56] But there's this set of there's this chain of gas stations that people like go there for Christmas. Like it's like the biggest thing in the world. It's like a phenomenon. Oh, my goodness. And and it's not because a gas station is so special. It's because they have this like amazing commitment to their customer experience. They've worked really hard on building a brand through connection.

[00:23:21] And any of us have the opportunity to do that in a way that drives, again, immediate results right now, but also creates this long term sustainability where you create this intangible asset of brand connection that goes far beyond any of your day to day actions. We'll be right back. Back to the show. I love it.

[00:23:47] I want a picture of that if you can share it and then maybe we can put it up on this like episode page where we can show like Christmas at a gas station in Alabama. Yeah. I mean, like a true testament to the like customer experience and the social engagement that they have with their customers. I mean, that's just that's the best thing I've ever heard all day. So I guess I can I can really see it, you know, like you got Santa Claus in the corner and like there's snow everywhere.

[00:24:16] There's a gas station. I love that. So what are what are the essential steps in creating an effective social community, right, that aligns with the company's values and goals? Like we're thinking always about making sure that we as a company are living and breathing our values and our mission. And that's kind of the connection we have with our community, with our customers, our clients.

[00:24:45] How do those show up in social media? Yeah. So I think, you know, there's obviously you have to start with having clarity on what that mission, what that vision, what those values are. But the the real magic is when you can translate those into what's called them touch points. Right. So I think you can think about communication and touch point as the same thing. You can't really have a touch point without it being some form of communication.

[00:25:14] So really, I kind of even want to broaden it beyond just social media because social media is one place where you can create touch points. It's also one form of touch point. But there's also like email marketing. There's your website. There's in some businesses, you know, phone interactions. Right. So these are all different touch points where you're communicating with your your audience and your your customers.

[00:25:38] And how you translate those, you know, values, that vision, that brand, as we would describe it, that story that you're creating as a brand into any particular touch point is going to come down to a number of things. It's going to come down to language. So literally, what words are you using? And you'll notice if you look at any, let's say, you know, really large and successful brand, they have certain words that they really like to use. They probably have catchphrases.

[00:26:07] They have, you know, these different ways in which they communicate that create a feeling and a connection with that, you know, particular brand as if they're a personality and persona. So one one thing is language. Right. Another is visuals. Right. So social media, depending on which platform, like they're all very visual. Instagram is hyper visual. You know, a lot of now a lot of videos, too, but like a lot of really gorgeous pictures. TikTok's all video.

[00:26:37] You know, LinkedIn's a mix of all of them. Twitter is in X's a little bit more text, but also video. Right. So there's this heavy visual component. So, again, what are the images? What's the imagery that you are regularly using in that content? You know, are there particular colors? Right. That keeps showing up. So there's the visual element. Then there's the audio element.

[00:27:00] So it's really all the things that make us feel connected to something in person are translated in in this, you know, unique way into the online space. And so as an example, from from an audio perspective, let's take it back to like radio stations. Right. A lot of people fell in love with these radio stations because there was this host who had a particular sound to their voice or.

[00:27:24] Right. There's the documentary series that has that like amazing British narrator that we all love. I forget what his name is. So, you know, there's this auditory component that can be sound of someone's voice. It can be music. It can be other other elements. And so how you translate vision, you know, values, mission into all these other components is really getting down to the essence of how do we want people to feel?

[00:27:51] Right. What is the feeling? What is the internal experience we want to create when they come into contact with our brand? And even down to is there a shift in how they're feeling when they come into contact with us, that they're shifting into a space of feeling empowered or inspired or confident or generally good feelings?

[00:28:15] Right. We don't want people to feel negative emotions when they come in contact with our brand, but really, you know, getting clarity on what that is and how do you create that and craft that through these different, you know, language, sound and visual elements. I love this response because I would have never answered it that way. And I think that you answering it this way makes so much sense to me. It's it's the experience. It's giving like the experience of the brand.

[00:28:46] I totally get it. I it's and it's so obvious. But I also feel like it's kind of like a lot of work because we think about it. It's like, OK, what music, what, you know, what what sound, what visual? I mean, I feel like a lot has to go into that. But I also think that those types of guidelines can give creatives the the balance of structure to be as creative as they want in order to really, you know, build that community.

[00:29:14] And that's kind of what I'm taking away from what you said. Yeah. And I think you're making a good point that it usually feels very overwhelming to to most people to think about all of these different elements. The cool thing is that the complexity of the amount of options that there are is balanced by the simplicity of it's just a feeling. Right. Yeah. And it actually you don't need, you know, all of these other components. You just need the feeling.

[00:29:42] And maybe you get there through one little thing that you're doing. Maybe it's more complex. You know, you can't really know until you try out a lot of different things. But this is where being, you know, intuitive as human beings really can come in. And when you say giving creatives the the freedom and the structure to, you know, experiment around how to create that feeling. You know, what are creatives? I think creativity is a type of, you know, intuitiveness.

[00:30:10] And so we all have some type of intuition we can tap into. And this is also why it's so fun and important to work with other people when trying to develop your your brand through social media is you don't want to do it in a in a silo. You really, really want to be interacting with other people, getting their feedback, seeing how people react when you present things. And that can be through conversation. Right.

[00:30:37] And having, let's say, the same topic of conversation with five or 10 different people and picking very slightly different words. Right. Or saying the same words with a different energy or tone. All of these different things can help give you a feedback mechanism to go, am I hitting the feeling or not? And that part of you that's intuitive will lead you in the right direction. Now, some of us will get there faster. Some of us are more intuitive on how to create that feeling.

[00:31:06] So it doesn't have to be so cerebral and cognitive. You can really be led by that thing that says, I didn't hit the feeling, but I think I should go this direction. And so this is why it's so hard, though, for I think so many brands and entrepreneurs is that's a scary, hard thing to do for most people that aren't very practiced at kind of following their intuition because you don't know quite where it's going to lead you.

[00:31:33] Yeah, it's a muscle that we need to learn to exercise and a lot of like testing and seeing what works and what doesn't. And so, yeah, I mean, but I also see that this is kind of the upfront work. And then once you have this great rhythm, like you're kind of smooth sailing after that. I also want to ask you, because there are so many different tools and platforms that we could think about, we could probably go on and on about them.

[00:32:00] But what tools or platforms do you recommend for really fostering these online communities and how can businesses really effectively integrate them into their existing marketing strategies? Yeah. So to give a little just like definition and context, because a lot of people don't, you know, what is an online community? Right. Yeah. So to me, it's an enclosed space because people will refer to their their social media following as their community.

[00:32:29] And certainly it can be a community. But when when kind of I'm talking about online community, I'm talking about something in an enclosed space where you have full control over the experience, the community experience. So there are a bunch of platforms that are specifically designed to help you build community on them. A couple quick examples, Circle, Mighty Networks, Thinkific, Naz.io.

[00:32:55] There's like, you know, Patreon, which I would say less is community, more content monetization. But they're all evolving over time. So there's a bunch of these platforms that will let you build a digital space where you are able to share content and create interaction. And that's like the very core essence of community is there's some content component. There's some interactive component between between members. So on one side, there's whatever platform you're building on.

[00:33:23] Again, they have different features. They have different pricing structures. But it's less about which platform, more about how you're using it. Right. And how you're actually engaging with people. So other tools that I use that support me in, let's say, the engagement, all of the activity side besides like just where it's hosted.

[00:33:42] And so I use AI called Gamma.app, which helps me with PDF presentations, because one of the things that I like to do from an engagement standpoint are like masterclasses and webinars. So to combine an educational component with a Q&A and discussion component, I really, really like that as a, you know, not only adding value style, but like it can be very, very interactive and connective.

[00:34:09] And usually I'm having someone share like their personal experiences or like what are they really working on? And then I get to talk about and kind of bond and connect over that with them while adding value. So it used to take me and I also use Canva. I love Canva. It's amazing. And I used to do all of my PDF presentations in Canva templates. And it would still take me like an hour with Gamma.app.

[00:34:34] I can put in a slide kind of description and it generates it in, you know, a minute and I can just tweak it a little bit. And it's really, really good. So that's one that I use that helps me. And it's more, honestly, they look better than, you know, what I was creating before. So really nice presentations where then I get to focus more on, again, the connection part. Another tool that I use, I really like Loom.

[00:34:59] So for people who don't know, Loom is a screen recording platform where it has like a circle of your face so people can see you and the video at the same time. And why I really like that is because our facial expressions and having people see our face is a huge part. Like we really don't realize how much looking at each other's faces bonds us to each other. So, you know, using that instead of just a screen recording software where it only shows the screen.

[00:35:28] So those are like two examples of, you know, I guess I like technology and softwares that allow me to focus more on the connection part because they're handling either the more manual part or, you know, they are combining a engagement element with, you know, or integrating it into the software tool. Awesome. Yeah.

[00:35:52] Mayan, I think we could continue this conversation and I wish we had more time, but this has been so enlightening. I, I for sure learned something today. I hope our listeners learn something today. You have incredible success over doing this, you know, just really mastering the competency of building engaging, engaging communities. And we're so thankful to have you on the show. So thank you.

[00:36:21] I hope we connect on social media and we can keep in touch and tell how, tell each other how much we love what's going on in our world. You can definitely look forward to me reaching out to you. So thank you so much for being here. Absolutely. And I'll make, I'll make sure to reach out as well. And that's, you know, just to, to end it, that's one of the things we can all be better at, I think is, you know, following up with people that we really connect with and not letting those relationships kind of slip through the cracks.

[00:36:51] And that, that really is more than just a friendship thing, right? It really actually helps business in a, in a really dramatic way. Absolutely. Thank you for being here. If today's episode captured your interest, please consider sharing it with a friend and leaving a review to learn more about how CPO playbook can support you or a leader, you know, with executive coaching or organizational transformation.

[00:37:19] Visit us at CPO playbook.com. Your support as a subscriber means the world to us. So thank you for tuning in. I'm Felicia Shakiba. Let's connect on LinkedIn. See you next week. Stay. Stay. Stay. Stay.