The Job Search Is Rigged Against New Grads | Shelley Maley

[00:00:00] Hello, hello. You're tuning into the Careering with Cameron podcast, your safe place to ask all the dumb questions about finding a job. Hey, everybody. It's Kevin Cameron with Careering with Cameron. I am excited today to bring you Shelley Maley from Dreamcatcher Career Coaching. And she's really going to help us to understand what is going on with branding, the career launch component.

[00:00:28] We're starting a brand new chapter for many students who are graduating from college and moving forward. And so her focus really is to make sure that those people are supported. And she's going to share some wisdom with us around what that looks like. So, Shelley, thanks so much for jumping on the show with us today. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Tell us a little bit about Dreamcatcher. How did you arrive at this point? So, I have a background in human resources and management.

[00:00:56] And when I was in HR, I was an HR director for 10 years. I got very burned out, really missing out on a lot of time with my young child. So, it was time to move on. Unfortunately, I developed some serious stress-related illnesses. And I ended up going out on a leave of absence. I always knew I wanted to own my own company. And I thought to myself, you know what?

[00:01:26] I really think I want to become a career coach. By the time I left HR, I had already had four different careers in three different industries. And so I thought, well, if I was able to navigate those transitions instinctively, then I could certainly help other people with their career transitions and their career confusion as well. That's amazing. Yeah. And so, you know, one of the things I really enjoy connecting with people on is people who have made those changes and pivots and things like that.

[00:01:57] Because you don't always go to school for what you're going to end up doing, right? Exactly. Yeah. So, let's kind of jump off there in terms of tell us kind of what do you focus on with your firm? Like, how do you identify folks that you can help? Well, I really have clients of all ages. However, in my immediate market, the Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania, I have 11 colleges.

[00:02:23] So, having worked as a career coach in higher ed for eight years, I decided that would be the primary focus, the primary market that I would focus on for Dreamcatcher Career Coaching. And from that, it's kind of evolved into a new coaching program that I launched this summer, Gradvertise. Excellent. I love that. I love that. So, in terms of getting started with Gradvertise, right? How do people connect with you?

[00:02:53] Like, what are the steps that you walk people through? How does that work? So, for anyone that's interested, obviously, there's information about Gradvertise on the Dreamcatcher Career Coaching website. A lot of times, it is parents who are trying to help their recent college graduates. You know, these young adults are very frustrated with the job search. They're not having much luck with all these online applications.

[00:03:19] And they really haven't been taught any other job search strategies during their four or five years in college. So, it's either the frustrated parents who are trying to help their frustrated kids, or it is the frustrated graduate who is just ready to figure out what's going wrong with their job search. Yeah. It seems like the pressure is much stronger now than it used to be coming out of school.

[00:03:46] And I think some of that is clearly social media and people kind of knowing more about your individual business than they used to. Right. But I also think that there are some questions around what is supposed to happen when I graduate? What am I supposed to be doing? Right. Right. Right. Right.

[00:04:11] Well, they don't really know much about networking or they're not comfortable with networking. And that's really so essential in today's job search. And it's such an intimidating word. So, they don't want to go to these networking events with complete strangers. Right. So, that's part of the problem. They think that networking is this big, complicated, scary thing. And it doesn't have to be.

[00:04:35] And then, like I said earlier, they feel that applying online, that's going to be all they need to do to get all these interviews. Yes. And they can send hundreds and hundreds of applications. And they're lucky if they get contacted a handful of times for a potential phone screening. So, it's just very different than when I graduated many years ago. Yes. Yes. Yes. Same here. There was an answering machine that you just were hoping there was a tape in. Right.

[00:05:04] And there was enough space on the tape to get the whole recording. And also, the good old fax machine with the confirmation page. So, what are you seeing now in terms of like what would you say is happening in terms of the job search? I know there's a lot of applications going out. But what are you seeing in terms of your applicants and trying to find positions? What are they running into? So, you know, they're just not getting any response to applications.

[00:05:35] It's, you know, a variety of reasons. Number one is that the employers are just getting inundated. When they do post a position, they are receiving hundreds, if not a thousand applications for one position. So, you know, obviously, there's no employer on the planet that can manage that volume. The other thing as a result of that volume of applicants is many employers are no longer posting positions publicly.

[00:06:01] They're using that LinkedIn platform to find candidates. And a lot of these young adults were told in college, you need to set up a LinkedIn profile, you know, maybe for a class. But they were never really explained why. They were never taught how to effectively use it. And they certainly don't know how to network through the LinkedIn platform.

[00:06:26] So if the candidate does not have a strong LinkedIn profile, then they're probably not even being visible in the market. If a recruiter is in LinkedIn looking for qualified candidates based on skills, education, the right keywords, they're not even coming up in a recruiter search.

[00:06:46] So if the recruiter is not posting jobs publicly and the recruiter is not finding that young adult or recent graduate on the LinkedIn platform, they're going nowhere. It's very frustrating for the applicants. Very frustrating. And I would imagine for somebody who has not applied to a lot of positions because they haven't been in that capacity before, that not getting any response emotionally is a challenge.

[00:07:16] But there's also a confidence problem there where how do you develop the skill and develop the confidence? And now, by the way, we would like you to network also when you've seen a lot of rejection, right? So how do you help with that? So really, there's a lot of advising them that just because you're not getting responses doesn't mean that you're never going to be employed. A lot of it is that mindset piece and really working on that confidence.

[00:07:46] So a lot of the coaching will talk about, you know, you get inside your own mind. You're making it a lot worse than it really is. Yes. And you have to believe in yourself and you can't present yourself in a negative manner. I know you're frustrated, but you've got to keep that under wraps and, you know, just believe that having the right conversations with the right people, that's going to open doors. Yeah.

[00:08:12] So, but I understand the mindset thing for any job seeker right now is just so challenging because it's not easy. It's not the way it used to be. It's not. And, you know, working with people who are in transition, looking for a new either job or a new career. I love what you said about the roles not necessarily being posted. Right.

[00:08:35] And oftentimes we explore that in coaching where, you know, it's not so much about applying to the roles where their postings are there. I mean, that's great that there's a posting, but also developing some curiosity and some interest in organizations that you feel you match well with. Right. And then be able to reach out to them because now you're one of one and not one of 300. Right. And so that's great advice.

[00:09:04] I really love that. What about in terms of, you know, students coming out of school? Oftentimes I feel like, and I have a student who's graduating from college this year. I think there's an awful lot of possible misconception on this is what my degree is in. So this is what I need to be focusing on in terms of my job search. Right. What do you think? Well, there's some of that definitely.

[00:09:32] Or they come out with a degree and they don't even know what they can do with it. Okay. I have a business management degree. What do I do with that? There's so many different things you can do with a business management degree. They just haven't had that any of that time with the career exploration piece. And it's especially challenging if they haven't had an internship to really know, okay, I had an internship in marketing. I had an internship in human resources. Did I really like that? What part of it did I like? What part of it did I not like?

[00:10:00] Those internships are so vital to helping the student identify what they might want to do with that degree when they get out. And unfortunately, the U.S. is four million internships short this year. And it's just been a lot harder for these kids that did not have that internship experience. But, you know, volunteer experience counts too. You know, you can find other opportunities even without that internship. Yeah.

[00:10:31] It is a challenge to find those internships. Right. And, you know, I think watching college happen is far different than going through college. As a parent, it's much different, right? And time obviously has changed quite a bit as well.

[00:10:49] But I think that there's almost like a pinnacle that we're going over at the end of sophomore year where suddenly you're not at the beginning stage of college and kind of figuring things out. But the expectation is that you've taken this leap forward. And you're finding internships and you're networking and getting involved. Like, how do we help students with that piece? That's tough. It is tough.

[00:11:17] And I think the biggest problem, and I know I was the same way when I started college. I wasn't thinking about the end game. You know, I was there having fun. I was trying to get through semester to semester. But every single semester from the get-go, you can be doing little things along the way to better position yourself for that final, you know, job search at the end with that piece of paper in hand. And there's no emphasis placed on that in the higher education realm.

[00:11:47] Very, very little emphasis placed on that. And I know it's overwhelming to be a new college student. But I think if there was more strategy placed around that, they could be doing one thing a semester. Maybe the first semester is join a professional association related to that field. Second semester, attend the job fair for the first time. Third semester, you know, maybe take on a leadership role at a related club on campus.

[00:12:17] I mean, there's different things that can be done, but there's just no guidance on how to structure those semesters. Agreed. And I think, you know, that the end of sophomore year sort of turns into a, you're an adult now. But you're not, right? Right. And I think, you know, my revelation was graduating from college and the first September that there were no classes.

[00:12:45] And I was like, and everybody laughs when I say this, but I was like, wait, so I'm like, I'm here now? And it doesn't change at all? It's just the same every day? Yeah. And that was eye-opening for me. I'm sure it's eye-opening for others as well. Right. But, you know, I think perhaps if we did a better job of sharing, like, these are things you can do earlier on to make it easier, right? Right.

[00:13:14] When you're in a college class, you have some type of curriculum that you're following, whether it's for your entire degree or for the specific class with a syllabus. Could you give us, like, the cheat sheet on what a syllabus would look like if you designed it for a college student? If I designed the syllabus? Yeah. So if you designed, like, freshman year, year one, like, what do you think people should focus on? Year one, you know, definitely get to know your professors.

[00:13:44] I know, you know, a lot of those are the general ed classes. But, you know, try to start building those relationships on campus because, hey, they're a part of your network, you know? Get to know the upperclassmen. They're a part of your network, too. So there's just different little things that you can do, whether it's officially on a syllabus or not.

[00:14:08] But, you know, there's some activities that you can undertake that can be very helpful to, you know, that end game. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So getting involved, I 100% agree. I think that, you know, working with the professors because a little kind of a cheat sheet there would be most of the professors hear about opportunities,

[00:14:31] specifically for internship opportunities, because those companies are coming to them and saying, hey, we've got this project. We need somebody really great. Who do you know? Yeah. So making sure you're networking with those professors as well. All right. Year two, what are we thinking? Year two, definitely start attending those career fairs.

[00:14:57] Definitely, you know, look into are there any, you know, there's professional associations for any career. You know, everything. Absolutely everything. Do some investigation. Figure out which ones are available. Figure out if any of them have, like, a student discount to join those memberships. And, you know, maybe there are even some virtual opportunities. I'm a member of Pennsylvania Career Development Association. I'm a volunteer with them.

[00:15:27] And we meet virtually. We never meet in person. So, you know, they don't have to be in that locale wherever the organization is. There are virtual, you know, opportunities to meet and get involved. And not only get involved, not only join those associations, but volunteer. Become a volunteer. Because you are going to make so many connections and such an impression on those professionals that are already part of it. Yes. That how can you fail? You just, you just can't fail.

[00:15:58] Absolutely. From being on different boards, students who offer to help and want to actually be involved are never forgotten. Nope. They're always the students that when it comes time to find a job, you've got 10, 15 people who are all rolling their sleeves up, ready to help and get you landed where you need to be. So, that's fantastic, fantastic advice.

[00:16:25] Make sure that you're not only being part of something, but you're actually engaged in it, right? Right. You're spending time getting to know those folks. So, love that. All right. What about year three? Junior year. So, junior year, you're probably working on trying to get that internship because a lot of employers won't hire those, you know, sophomores. Now, you know, my daughter actually graduated in May from Penn State University.

[00:16:49] And one of the things she did to stand out regarding career fair is she volunteered to help employers set up for the career fair. Yep. And she's a food science, she was a food science major. So, she started chatting up one of the food science employers. And lo and behold, they were impressed. And lo and behold, they're like, we're going to interview you for an internship. And guess what? She got the internship. Yep. And guess what? She's now employed full time with them.

[00:17:19] Yep. So, anything you can do to stand out, you know, volunteer to help set up, you know, set them up during that, you know, period beforehand when they're setting up their tables and their booths and their displays and everything. You know, be comfortable having conversations. Introduce yourself to them. But you definitely need to try to get some kind of experience. If you can't get the internship, then find a part-time job that's related to that field.

[00:17:49] If you can't get that, then find some volunteer experience within that field. You know, there's lots of different ways you can stand out. It doesn't always have to be that internship. But there are ways that you can really make an impression on employers other than internships. Absolutely. And, you know, from an employer perspective coming to those events, the employer has no idea how to get from point A to point B. They don't know their way around campus.

[00:18:16] They don't know where the doors are, where the people are coming from, who the professors are that are involved. So use your superpower, students, to help them with that because they also don't like to be lost and to not know what they're doing. They want to be prepared and they want to make a good impression. So if you can help them to do that, you've definitely set yourself out to be somebody that they want to talk to and be involved with. Absolutely. All right. Senior year. So much going on. Wrapping up the degree.

[00:18:46] All kinds of things that are happening. You've got a couple different shots there. I think a lot of students get nervous senior year because not so much because it's ending. Like that's part of it. But also, what if I haven't done enough? So is there a point here where they're not only focusing on maybe an additional internship senior year, perhaps through winter break, but also then what are we doing when we graduate? What's the steps? Right.

[00:19:15] Well, definitely at that point, you're in your program. You're taking related classes. Do you have relationships with those professors? If you're standing out to those professors, you're going to be top of mind when they're talking to employers. Definitely need to still be attending those career fairs. And one thing that I'm telling my clients is you can write a letter of interest to an employer even if they do not have a job posted. Yes. So I've really been encouraging my clients to do that.

[00:19:45] Clients of all ages, really. And that's what we did when we graduated many moons ago. You know, I opened up the phone book at the time it was the Yellow Pages. And I just went through and looked for all the hotels. And I just started sending my resume with a letter of interest and, you know, just to see if anybody would respond. And there's no harm in doing that for sure. So it's definitely a job search tactic that I don't think the universities talk about things like that, you know. Nope.

[00:20:13] When I first started in staffing, we used to call it dialing for dollars where you would literally go through a database or a phone book and you were calling people. You had no information on them at all. Right. And you would call them blind and just say, hey, this is what I'm looking for in terms of somebody for this position. This is the position. And you were hoping that either they were a good fit or they knew somebody. Right. And they would recommend them. So, yeah, it was a lot more legwork at that point in trying to get there.

[00:20:39] But the other thing to keep in mind is that, you know, while this is really about helping people start in positions, there is a little bit of a business aspect to this as well, which is the college and university, they want you to land a job. Right. Pretty quickly. Because that is also how they're evaluated on a bigger picture. Absolutely. Those graduate outcome reports. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, so it's not like they're not, they don't have skin in the game to make sure that you land.

[00:21:08] So go ahead and use that. They want you to land. Go and work with them to make their goal happen. Right. And it's your goal too at that point. Exactly. Yeah. I love, I love that. All right. All right. So anything that we missed the first four years they should be working on? Not that I can think of off the top of my head. Okay. All right.

[00:21:30] So what about in terms of our friend LinkedIn that nobody really wants to admit that they're going to have to use, at least when they start college. When should they start LinkedIn? Start it right away. Why not start it your freshman year? Mm-hmm. I've even seen some high school students starting to do it. You know, my, my daughter, she got on LinkedIn probably her junior year. Okay.

[00:21:58] But she actually, the thing she did too to stand out was she was actually posting content. Yep. You know, and I mean, it may have been a little rocky. It may not have been perfect, but she identified herself right up front as a, you know, a college student and started talking about her major and different things she was learning and experiencing and made some posts during her internship. And her professors love that. They're like, nobody else is doing that. None of our other students in our program are doing that.

[00:22:27] And they just thought that was the coolest thing. It is. So she really, she really did stand out because she was the only one that was actually starting to talk industry related things. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's amazing, especially to be able to do that and have the confidence, right? To, to just put that out there. There are adults who don't have the confidence to put that out there. You're right. Who've been in the same job for 15, 20 years. Exactly. So that's wonderful, wonderful exposure for her.

[00:22:54] You know, I think, I think also knowing that, you know, in hindsight, looking back and I, I've heard somebody, somebody once said to me, we live life the wrong way. We should start as old people and then get younger. And, and so, because there's, there's so many things that we would do differently or we would have better insight to. But one of those things during, during college is also that, like, how often does your circle change? True.

[00:23:22] Where you have all these other people you can connect to, talk to, get to know, rely on later on for a connection. I mean, the, the folks that are in the, let's call it the 40 to 40 plus range, they have like alumni associations, but they never had, maybe some of the 40s partially, but they didn't have quite the level that, that today we do to keep track of people that you've met. Right.

[00:23:49] And so, so that's really important to being able to, to explore that and being able to build that too. Sure. So, so that, that's very cool. All right. Tell us more about your firm. How do people get to you? How do you, how do they start to work with you? What happens? So, um, you can certainly find me on my website, um, www.dreamcatchercareercoaching.com.

[00:24:15] And, um, there's a contact, contact us form there, of course. There's also a landing page on my website for Gravertise. and so they can reach out again and express interest in the Gradvertise program as well. Gradvertise is designed for the recent college graduates and young professionals and also for those students who are, you know, deep in the internship search.

[00:24:41] So I just did a video with a young man a week ago and it's for his internship search because he knows, you know, he gets it. He needs to find that internship. And I said, if you want to stand out among all these other kids that are looking for internships, Gravertize is going to help you do that. So in the process of editing that video now. Excellent. That's fun. I love that.

[00:25:07] So in terms of the couple programs, so you've got Gravertize, which is more for students, interns and finding the full-time position, right? And graduate students as well? Yes, absolutely. Okay. All right. And then what about folks who are coming out of high school looking for their first position, maybe taking a gap year or not going to college? Right. So I don't typically work too much with high school students. Okay.

[00:25:34] There are instances where, you know, I've identified that that student has that maturity level to really focus on, you know, on what they want, you know, five or six or seven years from now. Sure. And I can work with them. But typically, I have associates here in the We Have Valley that do more of that high school coaching part. Okay. All right. Good. And then what about on the other side of the fence? So working with people who are looking maybe for a new position, their next position. Yes. What about that?

[00:26:04] How does that work? Yes, absolutely. Anybody that's, I've worked with lots of professionals who are burned out. I've worked with women who are returning to the workforce after being out with raising their children. I've worked with people that are, they know they're just not satisfied with what they're doing and they're ready to move on to the next thing, but they don't know what that next thing is. So really clients of all ages. I even had a 70-year-old woman contact me last year.

[00:26:32] She had been with a retail establishment and the store closed after she'd worked there for 18 years. And she's like, I still need to work. So I have clients of all ages. Yeah. That's wonderful that you're supporting folks who are at that stage where they're like, hey, the world might think I should retire, but I don't think I should retire. I want to keep doing this. And I think we're going to see more and more of that. Yes. A, things are a lot more expensive. And B, I think that people are living longer.

[00:27:02] So they're pushing off that like, this might be the old retirement age, but it's not my retirement age. Right. And probably I would imagine, we haven't talked about this before, but I would imagine also people who've gotten to that point with their career where they have kind of completed it and now they're ready for something completely different. Yes, absolutely. And so, you know, helping them as well, which is wonderful stuff. I love that. All right.

[00:27:30] So in terms of how people can get to you, they can come through your website. Yes. You're on LinkedIn. Yes, absolutely. Okay. Any other social media where they can find you? There is Facebook, Dreamcatcher Career, and then Instagram, Dreamcatcher Career Coaching, LinkedIn. I do have a YouTube page as well. Not super active on YouTube yet, but it is there. Okay. Good, good, good. So. All right.

[00:27:58] So a few different avenues to reach out to you and connect with you. Yes. The question I ask everybody who comes on the podcast, and I'm so excited to hear your response. Okay. Okay. I always ask, what's your why? Because what I found when working with people is that everybody has a different kind of reason why they do what they do. Yes. Especially people who are truly passionate about what they're doing. And clearly you are, Shelley. Yes. What's your why?

[00:28:23] My why is having been through the toxic workplace, the burnout, the boredom, pretty much every kind of career challenge you can imagine. I understand how stuck in the muck people can feel. And my why is I want to help people because we spend 90,000 hours of our life at work. We deserve to be happy or mostly happy in our careers, in our professions. So that's my why.

[00:28:52] I don't want anybody else to feel as hopeless and stuck and depressed as I did over something so immense. It's such an immense part of your life. So that's really my why. And I'm very, very grateful and thankful that I get to be that coach for those people that also feel stuck, confused, burned out, and confused. Yeah.

[00:29:47] I go, doesn't mean that that's what you have to do. Exactly. They get to decide a lot of things. But when you're paying your own bills, it's time for you to take some ownership of this too. So that's great. I love it. I love it. And the other thing too is a career that might have worked for you when you were 23 years old may not be suitable for whenever you're trying to get married, start a family. I mean, we have ages and stages of life.

[00:30:11] And one career that was suitable early on may not be feasible for once you start having a family and other obligations. And those skills are transferable. There's always transferable skills baked into them. Right. So that's important. All right. Shelley, one last time. Website for me? Dreamcatchercareercoaching.com. Excellent. All right, folks. Shelly, I really have enjoyed our conversation today. I hope you have as well.

[00:30:39] I appreciate you spending one of the 90,000 hours with careering with Cameron. So thank you very much. Folks, reach out to Shelly if you're in a position where you're looking to find something new. You're a student. The internship component. First job. Reach out to Shelly. Connect with her through LinkedIn, through Facebook, obviously through her website also. But catch up with her. And thanks again for being on the show with us. Thank you so much, Kevin. It was great meeting you. Absolutely.

[00:31:07] Folks, if you enjoyed today's show, please go ahead and give us five stars. And make sure, especially you parents, I'm talking to you, make sure that you're sending this to your student because it is much easier for us to communicate with your student than you are. And I'm a parent, so I get it. Right. And so is Shelly. So that's one. Two would be make sure that you're subscribing to the podcast so that you're getting each episode as they come through. They do come out on Wednesdays. And I don't want you to miss any. So again, five stars. Subscribe. Share it with somebody that you know.

[00:31:37] Shelly, it's been wonderful catching up with you. Thank you. We'll speak to you soon, okay? All right. Take care, Kevin.