Resilience and Passion in Career Advancement with Gena Smith

[00:00:01] Hi everybody, this is Bob Goodwin and welcome to another episode of Career Club Live.

[00:00:06] Thank you for taking a few minutes out of your day to join us. Today's episode is brought to you by Next Placement,

[00:00:12] which is Career Club's innovation in the out placement category where we're taking a more people-centric,

[00:00:17] empathetic approach to transitioning employees where we believe these are people not cells on the spreadsheet,

[00:00:24] mental wellness, emotional intelligence, community are important. If that sounds like something of interest to you,

[00:00:30] we'd encourage you to check out Next Placement at Career Club. I am so excited about today's guest.

[00:00:36] This is about 60 days in the making. I had read an interview with our guest and was just really amazed by some of the work that she's doing

[00:00:44] and I'm really pleased to have the opportunity to speak with her. Our guest today is

[00:00:48] Gena Smith, who's a CHRO at LVMH

[00:00:51] North America where she oversees HR strategy and operations for a 40,000 person organization

[00:00:57] with extensive experience in the luxury and retail sectors. Gena's been instrumental in developing talent,

[00:01:04] implementing diversity initiatives and driving innovation at LVMH since she joined in in 2011.

[00:01:09] She also serves on several boards including Tiffany and company, Gabriella Hurst in the Fashion Scholarship Fund.

[00:01:15] Gena is a frequent speaker on HR topics, discussing upskilling, employee experience and talent development. With that,

[00:01:23] Gena, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:26] Thank you. Hi Bob. It's great to be here. Thank you for having me today.

[00:01:30] No, thank you so much. You're a busy lady and doing some very cool things.

[00:01:34] So we'll unpack here in a few minutes. So thank you for that. Now, where do we find you today? Where are you calling in from?

[00:01:39] I am in my office in New York City today.

[00:01:42] Yay. And then as is our want, we usually ask a couple icebreaker questions. So where were you born and raised?

[00:01:49] I was born in Lubbock, Texas and

[00:01:53] raised

[00:01:54] basically in Texas. I mean, I left Texas

[00:01:58] around 21 something like that. But I grew up in Texas. My whole family is still there.

[00:02:04] Can you fall back into a Texas straw pretty quickly?

[00:02:07] Oh, absolutely. All I have to do is go home for the weekend and I come back with it.

[00:02:11] So yes, it's very organic. As a Tennessee native, I always like to tease. Do you know what the plural of y'all is?

[00:02:20] Y'all y'all. Y'all says again, all y'all.

[00:02:25] Yeah, so anyway.

[00:02:28] So maybe this would be a good way.

[00:02:30] Can you kind of just then paint a little bit of a picture of how you're where you went to school and then you're a little bit about your career

[00:02:35] art that's got you at a very cool job at LVMH. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I think

[00:02:42] listening to some of your other guests, you know, talking about having sort of a non-traditional nonlinear career,

[00:02:48] I definitely fall into that to that as well.

[00:02:51] I grew up in Texas, as I said, and I started school at a local university in Texas

[00:02:57] and then through that had the opportunity to do a study abroad and

[00:03:01] that took me to Greece. So I spent a summer

[00:03:05] in Greece working at a five star hotel on the island of Crete,

[00:03:09] which was a very transformative experience in a lot of ways.

[00:03:13] I mean, first of all, it was of course a very fun, exciting way to spend your summer, although we did work extremely hard.

[00:03:19] I'm not sure I've ever worked as hard as I did in that summer,

[00:03:22] but it was transformative because it was the first time I had really left

[00:03:26] Texas, to be honest, not even forget about the U.S. but really leaving my home and

[00:03:32] I was in this, you know, very foreign country, foreign, you know, you look at the alphabet,

[00:03:37] you're immediately confronted with a very different language.

[00:03:40] But I felt in a way more alive and more at home than I had ever felt before.

[00:03:46] I sort of found my purpose, which was people and culture.

[00:03:51] I knew that I needed to be in...

[00:03:53] And I realized that there was this whole world out there and I needed to be a part of that

[00:03:57] and I wanted to be a part of that. So I transformed my education.

[00:04:02] I decided to focus on international business.

[00:04:04] I ended up moving back to Greece and going to an American university in Greece.

[00:04:09] I graduated from the University of Indianapolis, but it's through Greece that that happened because

[00:04:14] they had a campus in Athens and I wanted to continue my education.

[00:04:19] And so I went to school in Athens and then I went to school in Indiana.

[00:04:22] So I always joke that I ended up there via Athens, which again, not very traditional,

[00:04:28] but it was really the beginning of a very international career.

[00:04:33] The first five years of my career, I focused on international education

[00:04:37] because I also supported myself through college and part of how I did that was working at the university.

[00:04:43] I continued to do that after graduation.

[00:04:45] And then when I moved to New York about 25 years ago,

[00:04:50] I wanted to go into...

[00:04:52] I knew that I wanted to be in the corporate side.

[00:04:54] I didn't really associate it with HR at that moment.

[00:04:57] I didn't... Coming from academia, I didn't really know too much about the HR function.

[00:05:01] But I knew that I wanted to do something related to expats.

[00:05:05] I was working with international students in education.

[00:05:08] So I wanted to continue working with expats, international citizens,

[00:05:13] thinking that I would move to the corporate world where,

[00:05:16] as much as I loved education, felt that it might be a little bit more financially lucrative

[00:05:21] to move to the business side.

[00:05:24] So I ended up an executive headhunting and it was really an accident,

[00:05:29] to be honest with you, but there was a search firm that was hiring in New York,

[00:05:34] the partner that, you know, at the time you found jobs like on monster.com.

[00:05:39] And I submitted my resume.

[00:05:41] It was contacted by this partner.

[00:05:43] She was an Australian woman and she was working with a lot of international clients in the US.

[00:05:49] And that was, of course, very exciting to me, very appealing to me.

[00:05:52] So I ended up taking the plunge, not really knowing what I was exactly getting into.

[00:05:58] Because I didn't really understand very much about the world of executive recruitment.

[00:06:03] But I ended up staying within that sector for almost 15 years,

[00:06:08] working for a couple of different search firms and helping to build

[00:06:12] the luxury and retail practice, starting at Russell Reynolds,

[00:06:16] where I have the opportunity to work with our global partners and did that

[00:06:20] with them again, building this practice and finding my niche because,

[00:06:25] of course, I was interested in the industry.

[00:06:27] But again, all of these were international clients.

[00:06:30] So it really fed my passion around people and culture.

[00:06:34] And in 2011, I was recruited to join LBMA,

[00:06:40] starting as the head of HR for North America.

[00:06:43] It was a little bit of a risky move, probably maybe for me and maybe for

[00:06:48] my boss who offered me the role because even though I had a very strong

[00:06:52] talent background, executive recruitment background and so much of the role is

[00:06:56] focused on talent, there were other aspects of HR that I had zero experience.

[00:07:02] So we sort of jumped into this together.

[00:07:05] And now I'm just getting ready to celebrate 13 years with LBMA.

[00:07:10] It's been an incredible ride.

[00:07:12] The company has grown tremendously, both in terms of revenue and sales,

[00:07:16] new acquisitions, headcount, all of the different programming.

[00:07:21] So it's just been an incredible journey.

[00:07:25] And again, when I look back on being in Greece,

[00:07:29] like 30 something years ago, having this epiphany,

[00:07:33] it's just sort of amazing to see that without really having a plan,

[00:07:38] I ended up exactly where I should be in an international organization very much

[00:07:43] focused on people and culture.

[00:07:44] OK, that is only super cool.

[00:07:48] So at Curriculum, we work a lot with people in job transition

[00:07:53] and how many people find their kind of story and their narrative,

[00:07:57] their brand, if you will, is really a lot of what we spend time.

[00:08:01] And as you were talking, I'm like, if Gina was my client,

[00:08:04] what would I what?

[00:08:05] And words that just like kind of immediately jump in my mind,

[00:08:08] you're super curious, fearless, you're willing to go try stuff

[00:08:14] where you don't have a lot of information.

[00:08:16] I don't know what's good Athens and see what happened.

[00:08:18] Let's go to Crete and see what happens.

[00:08:20] I've never been on the client side in HR, but OK, let's see what happens.

[00:08:25] And I think that this is where I think people sometimes get tangled.

[00:08:29] This may be a good place to riff on some talent stuff.

[00:08:32] Yes.

[00:08:33] You know, when people say, well, go figure out what you're passionate about.

[00:08:37] Well, sometimes we don't know because we haven't seen what the buffet

[00:08:41] of options are and you just need to go try stuff.

[00:08:45] And particularly for young people, it's often just a test for negatives.

[00:08:49] Well, at least I hate like if you know you don't like that,

[00:08:53] don't go do that, but go explore, go try stuff you don't know where things might end up.

[00:08:59] Yeah, it's exactly what I say.

[00:09:01] We have a lot of interns right now as you can imagine.

[00:09:03] Yeah, summer.

[00:09:05] And so we're having a lot of discussions and talks either at the LVMH level

[00:09:08] with the different brands.

[00:09:09] And that's exactly one of the sort of

[00:09:14] advice that I often offer them is part of how you determine what I was lucky.

[00:09:20] Because, yes, I when I went to Greece, I had no idea.

[00:09:23] I was like, I'm going to study business.

[00:09:24] I don't really know what that means or what I want to do with it.

[00:09:27] But then it became crystal clear for me what my passion was when I was there.

[00:09:30] Again, I didn't associate it with HR, but I knew people culture.

[00:09:34] I knew that.

[00:09:34] But part of how you determine is by first it becomes very clear for you what you

[00:09:40] don't like, either in terms of the culture, the environment, the actual content and

[00:09:44] the role. And so it's easy or almost to start excluding things to say, OK,

[00:09:48] that's not for me. That's not.

[00:09:49] And then hopefully you figure out what you're what really excites you and

[00:09:54] energize you. And then you then you make sure that that for me, for example,

[00:09:58] I knew that I was never going to take a position if it didn't offer me

[00:10:02] the opportunity to really work with a lot of people.

[00:10:05] And it wasn't an international environment.

[00:10:07] There are some amazing, you know, purely American companies.

[00:10:10] But I knew that that wouldn't be the right environment for me because I would

[00:10:14] miss the dynamic of working with people from all over the world.

[00:10:17] That was something that I just received a lot of joy from.

[00:10:20] So I agree with you.

[00:10:21] You have to experiment a little bit.

[00:10:23] You have to put yourself out there in even uncomfortable situations to test

[00:10:29] yourself. And you might and you're often very surprised to find the things that

[00:10:33] really resonate with you.

[00:10:35] So as a young professional and, you know, you can go as far

[00:10:41] into the current world, but what were some of the maybe people

[00:10:47] advice, things, things that were influential to you that helped sort of

[00:10:52] shape some of this for you, even sponsors or champions?

[00:10:54] I mean, I've been very fortunate, I think, in my career because

[00:11:00] I have always been able to find people that either believed in me or saw

[00:11:08] something in me that maybe I didn't even see in myself at different periods.

[00:11:13] And there are probably three critical moments in my career.

[00:11:19] One, you know, very early on when I was sort of struggling

[00:11:23] early in my career, I mean, like right at the beginning of college and working

[00:11:28] sort of part-time in an office.

[00:11:30] And this I was working for this very wealthy entrepreneur and he had this tiny

[00:11:35] small business now that he had started.

[00:11:38] And, you know, frankly, he just saw something in me that I didn't even know

[00:11:41] that I had and he and his wife sort of took me under their wing and really

[00:11:47] tried to give me advice and counsel and guide me and put me on a stronger

[00:11:54] path in terms of, OK, you're working to put yourself through college because I had

[00:11:58] to do that, but how do we accelerate that?

[00:12:01] How do you make sure even this little tiny company that I own, Gina,

[00:12:05] is not the right, it's not the future for you.

[00:12:07] Let's figure out something that's

[00:12:08] bigger than that. So that was an early stage in my career.

[00:12:12] I also had two really important moments when I was at Russell Reynolds.

[00:12:17] One of them was the partner that ran the luxury and retail practice around the world.

[00:12:23] She was just she is just incredible woman, half Italian, half French.

[00:12:28] She studied in the US.

[00:12:30] She had these top European clients.

[00:12:33] And I think what she saw again in me was my passion.

[00:12:36] I didn't know the sector when I first started working with her.

[00:12:39] I'd never done any work in the sector.

[00:12:41] But she saw my passion.

[00:12:42] She saw my curiosity and so kind of brought me under her wing again.

[00:12:47] And I worked with her for over six years to really help build this practice.

[00:12:51] And she was amazing at giving me exposure, giving me opportunities,

[00:12:56] always pushing me, challenging me and really making me feel that I could do it

[00:13:03] even when I didn't know exactly what I was doing at certain points.

[00:13:08] And then finally, I would say my current boss who recruited me in 2011,

[00:13:14] Chantel Gamperelle, who's our global head of HR,

[00:13:17] has just been an incredible mentor and supporter.

[00:13:20] And I think what is also unique about all of these people and all of these moments

[00:13:25] in my career is that each of them gave me a chance.

[00:13:29] Not only was I willing to step into something where I didn't have the

[00:13:34] experience and I think, yes, that's important to be open to be curious,

[00:13:37] but you also need to have people that are willing to give you a shot.

[00:13:40] Because at steps in our career, we all hope to be able to go to the next level

[00:13:45] to do something that we've never done before.

[00:13:47] And I was very fortunate to have people that believed that I could

[00:13:52] and were also willing to support my development and willing to help set me up

[00:13:56] for success, so not just bringing me into a position and just sort of letting

[00:13:59] me try to master it on my own, but really supporting my development,

[00:14:04] giving me constant feedback and guiding me through the processes.

[00:14:09] So I think it was a combination of, yes, my openness and willingness.

[00:14:13] And then again, frankly, being fortunate to have people take chances on me.

[00:14:17] Yeah. Well, let's use that as a segue to a topic

[00:14:20] that I know we wanted to explore a little bit, which is internal mobility.

[00:14:24] Right? So we start to see attributes in people.

[00:14:28] And sometimes to your point, maybe more than they see in themselves at this

[00:14:32] juncture of their career.

[00:14:35] And how do you how have you taken what you've sort of as an HR professional,

[00:14:42] you know, kind from the discipline, but also experientially from your own career?

[00:14:46] How have you guys woven some of these things into how you guys foster

[00:14:50] internal mobility and helping?

[00:14:54] It's it's probably one of our the cornerstone of our HR philosophy.

[00:14:58] I mean, we believe that we're fortunate, right?

[00:15:01] Because we have we're a group of seventy five plus

[00:15:04] mazons across similar but also very different industries.

[00:15:09] And we have this ability because we have very strong brands that are highly

[00:15:14] desirable both from a customer standpoint and from an employee standpoint.

[00:15:17] So we're able to attract a high caliber of people.

[00:15:21] People want to work for our company.

[00:15:23] Of course, we're always trying to do everything we can to ensure that we're

[00:15:26] an employer of choice. We don't take it for granted.

[00:15:29] It's very hard to maintain that desire.

[00:15:31] There are a lot of great things out there, but one of the key

[00:15:35] the key elements that we can offer to somebody is hopefully a very diverse

[00:15:40] career because of the richness of the group.

[00:15:42] So concretely, we have a lot of very structured processes in place

[00:15:48] that allow us to have clear visibility of all the different open positions.

[00:15:53] And I'm more focused right now, at least on sort of executive

[00:15:57] manager and executive level position, which is several thousand roles

[00:16:01] across the organization.

[00:16:02] We go very systematically and regularly through each of our organizations

[00:16:07] or organization charts, looking at people talking about their career,

[00:16:12] their development, planning out sort of succession, planning

[00:16:16] different scenarios with them.

[00:16:18] But I think what is very unique to our group, at least based on some other

[00:16:21] organizations I've seen, is that we spend time with all of these people too.

[00:16:27] So we have regular and consistent meetings.

[00:16:29] It's not a theoretical exercise for us.

[00:16:31] So we're really sitting down with people going through having the career

[00:16:34] discussions, OK, what are their long term ambitions?

[00:16:37] What are their strengths and roles?

[00:16:39] Where are they being successful?

[00:16:41] Where are the gaps?

[00:16:42] How do we get them to the next level?

[00:16:44] So between the corporate group, between the different

[00:16:46] misans, we're triangulating all this information.

[00:16:48] And of course, taking the input from the employees to understand also what

[00:16:52] their goals and objectives are.

[00:16:55] I think we try to look more and more and we probably, to be honest,

[00:16:59] have more room for improvement here, but not just focusing on the experience

[00:17:04] that someone has had, but really looking at the skills, the capabilities,

[00:17:08] the potential, right?

[00:17:09] And that's like a lot of companies.

[00:17:11] That's where we're moving.

[00:17:12] So we're launching a talent marketplace where we're integrating more and more

[00:17:16] AI into the succession planning process to help us identify the skills and then

[00:17:21] match the skills with potential opportunities,

[00:17:24] we know that people want to acquire for the next step or that they need to

[00:17:28] acquire to continue to advance in their roles.

[00:17:30] So, you know, with a large population like us, it's a pretty complex exercise.

[00:17:36] But I would say that we systematically track monitor

[00:17:40] the internal mobility, internal promotions.

[00:17:43] We look at it in multiple ways within the function, within the division,

[00:17:47] within the brand, outside the brand.

[00:17:49] And the last thing I'll say on that is again, it's a core philosophy that we have.

[00:17:54] And again, we have tools in place to support that.

[00:17:57] But we also want to be an organization where we never have probably more than

[00:18:03] two thirds internal mobility because we also know that we need to inject

[00:18:07] newness into the group as well.

[00:18:08] So we're constantly, you know, trying to arbitrate between when is it

[00:18:13] an internal promotion?

[00:18:14] When do we need to bring that expertise outside to continue to grow and cultivate

[00:18:18] our our existing organization and businesses?

[00:18:22] OK, so.

[00:18:24] Just there's there's tons of impact there.

[00:18:27] One of the things if you thought about.

[00:18:31] I know this is an arbitrary number, but like the top three qualities just

[00:18:35] generally speaking, your three qualities that those tend to be the people that are

[00:18:42] on the high potential or the next tier up in their own career.

[00:18:48] What were some of those traits or attributes that come to mind?

[00:18:52] I mean, obviously there are some elements that are just baseline, right?

[00:18:56] You know, successful track record, things like that, better baseline.

[00:18:58] But outside of that, I would say humility, agility and curiosity.

[00:19:04] Those are probably the three that are must haunts.

[00:19:07] And if I was interviewing with you, how would they demonstrate any of those?

[00:19:12] I think I mean, that's where it's an interesting question because we're

[00:19:16] really looking for we're interviewing people.

[00:19:20] Concrete examples of when you've been able to demonstrate how you've done that.

[00:19:24] So a lot of times I find when you interview people, it's easy that

[00:19:28] for the conversation to move into this theoretical, well, I believe or I think

[00:19:32] or I feel for us, we're trying to it's pulling it back to say, OK,

[00:19:37] but actually give me a very concrete example of when you were able to demonstrate

[00:19:42] this, when you were able to demonstrate curiosity.

[00:19:45] What was the problem? How did you address it?

[00:19:48] You know, what was a mistake that you made?

[00:19:50] I think that's always an interesting way to assess somebody's humility

[00:19:53] to see how open they are about any mistakes that they've made.

[00:19:56] We've all done that.

[00:19:57] I mean, we can't be successful in growing our career without them.

[00:20:00] It's how do you adjust?

[00:20:02] How do you adapt that? What are you learning from that?

[00:20:05] So I think we really try to make it very concrete in terms of what you've done.

[00:20:09] Obviously, we have an advantage if they're internal because we have that

[00:20:13] information, we sort of know it.

[00:20:15] But for me, it's really having people pressing people to be very

[00:20:19] concreting, give explicit examples of when they have demonstrated these

[00:20:22] capabilities. Yeah. So so a couple of things.

[00:20:25] One of the isms that I share with our clients is

[00:20:29] your resume might get you the interview.

[00:20:31] The stories you tell will get you the job.

[00:20:34] And then related to that is demonstrate, don't declare.

[00:20:37] Yes, exactly. I fully agree.

[00:20:40] You know, and then relate to this.

[00:20:41] Adjectives are not accomplishments.

[00:20:43] Right, exactly.

[00:20:46] Agility is really interesting.

[00:20:47] I'd love for you to riff on that one for a minute because,

[00:20:50] you know, the pace of change, the magnitude of change is just all accelerating.

[00:20:57] Right. You know, and you mentioned AI earlier,

[00:20:59] which is an easy example to pick on.

[00:21:04] But agility, can agility be taught?

[00:21:09] I think it can be.

[00:21:12] It's interesting that we ask the same question about things like emotional

[00:21:15] intelligence, can that be taught?

[00:21:17] I think that it can be refined, it can be improved upon.

[00:21:23] But yes, I mean, I don't know.

[00:21:26] There are certain there are certain people again that are probably very

[00:21:30] structured, maybe even I don't want to use the word rigid.

[00:21:34] I don't mean that in a majority of sense, but because in some environments,

[00:21:37] in some roles, that's really, really important that you have that.

[00:21:40] A rigid accountant.

[00:21:42] Right, exactly.

[00:21:44] But I think that what it's what I see, what I would comment about agility is.

[00:21:51] You can see when it becomes when it's when people are struggling

[00:21:55] because it's so uncomfortable for them that it's that it's not even something

[00:21:59] that they it's just too difficult for them to master because it's just so incredibly

[00:22:03] so out, so outside their comfort zone that it that it creates

[00:22:08] a very uncomfortable sort of situation and way of working.

[00:22:12] So do I think it can be taught?

[00:22:14] I don't know. I think it can be refined and improved upon.

[00:22:16] But I don't know if you can actually

[00:22:19] turn somebody into a highly agile person if that's not part of their

[00:22:22] natural predisposition.

[00:22:24] Yeah, yeah.

[00:22:25] So you talked about injecting new talent into

[00:22:31] the company and new perspectives and things like that.

[00:22:35] Maybe this is related, but one of the things as I was doing a little bit of

[00:22:40] research preparing for this conversation was this notion of innovation versus

[00:22:45] heritage, right? We've always done it this way.

[00:22:49] No, you don't understand the essence of the brand.

[00:22:50] You can't do this to the brand, but we have to continue to innovate and be current.

[00:22:56] And you guys actually set trends.

[00:22:59] You don't follow trends.

[00:23:00] You guys set trends.

[00:23:01] You don't go to the mall and ask people what they want.

[00:23:03] Basically tell them what they want.

[00:23:06] Yeah, because you guys are taste makers.

[00:23:10] How do you do that balance of innovation and heritage?

[00:23:14] I mean, I think that's one of the

[00:23:17] probably the more certainly the most challenging aspects of an organization

[00:23:21] like ours, especially in an environment where the customer is so educated and

[00:23:27] informed and they're just so much more knowledgeable because of social media

[00:23:31] than they were 20 or 30 years ago when those tools didn't exist.

[00:23:36] So now how do you stay ahead of the customer?

[00:23:38] How do you keep ahead of the trends?

[00:23:40] How do you continue to establish the trends?

[00:23:41] It's as you were mentioning earlier, just the pace of change is so much

[00:23:45] faster than it's ever been.

[00:23:47] I think for us, we always want to make sure that our brands that in many cases

[00:23:53] have been around certainly for decades, sometimes even hundreds of years,

[00:23:56] that we never really lose the essence and the DNA of the heritage of that brand.

[00:24:01] What was the vision of the founder, the entrepreneur at the moment that they

[00:24:05] created this product, this brand, launched it to the market?

[00:24:09] That's it's really important to always sort of go back to the heritage.

[00:24:12] Then how do you interpret that in today's environment in a way that is brand

[00:24:19] accretive, not just now, but for the future?

[00:24:21] Because it's not even making sure there's a lot of things that you could do

[00:24:25] because it's the right thing for the moment.

[00:24:27] But what we have to also ask ourselves, not only does that fit with the heritage

[00:24:31] of the brand, but is that also going to make sense?

[00:24:34] Are we going to look back in 10 years and think, why did we do that?

[00:24:37] That was that was a weird detour for the brand.

[00:24:40] And that's that's where the extra

[00:24:41] challenge is for us, because we're thinking about building brands into

[00:24:45] not just for today, but also for tomorrow.

[00:24:48] So you need to make sure and part of how you do that is by you have this tension.

[00:24:54] We have tension between the creatives,

[00:24:56] between the business, between the merchants, bringing different perspectives,

[00:25:01] having different diverse opinions that are able to weigh in that and give

[00:25:06] your perspective.

[00:25:08] What's important is that we're able to be part of the culture, the conversations

[00:25:12] around culture that are happening in those moments of time.

[00:25:15] But it's it's there's not a magic formula per se.

[00:25:19] It's a little bit of science.

[00:25:21] It's a little bit of art.

[00:25:22] It's a little bit of instinct sometimes and just like what you feel

[00:25:25] is the right thing to do for the brand.

[00:25:28] And you do see clearly when it isn't right, the customer

[00:25:35] will also tell you like real quick or even the employee.

[00:25:40] But this this is probably the core again of how we think about building brands.

[00:25:45] And it's just getting it's getting more and more difficult,

[00:25:48] especially as our brands also becoming larger.

[00:25:51] And how do you continue to do that?

[00:25:53] How do you continue to innovate?

[00:25:54] That's that's always the challenge that we often create a culture.

[00:26:00] Gina, you know, of because I think about

[00:26:03] creatives and people that have very strong beliefs, very strong passions

[00:26:09] about what this brand is, what it's not, etc.

[00:26:13] And how you create an environment where we can respectfully disagree on something

[00:26:21] without people throwing a glass against the wall because you're going

[00:26:26] to trash a hundred year old brand with I mean, I can just see people getting

[00:26:30] really animated when we're talking about doing things with brands and

[00:26:35] and culturally, how do we do that?

[00:26:38] I guess, Sherm's word today would be civilly.

[00:26:40] Yeah, you I guess you've been in some of our meetings, you know,

[00:26:44] they're definitely look, we have a we're fortunate because I think people

[00:26:51] that come into our industry and certainly people that come into our group,

[00:26:54] they are extremely passionate about the work that they're doing and the brands

[00:26:59] that they represent.

[00:27:00] I don't think this is an industry and maybe there are some industries or maybe

[00:27:05] there are some functions, I would say it differently.

[00:27:08] Maybe there are functions that you can be sort of industry agnostic when you go into.

[00:27:12] I don't think anybody that's in our ecosystem is industry agnostic.

[00:27:16] They're here because of a love and a passion.

[00:27:19] So when you're having these conversations,

[00:27:22] they can be very passionate conversations to your point.

[00:27:25] People do have really strong opinions about what's right and what's not right.

[00:27:30] So I think what we try to do like any

[00:27:34] organization is create an environment where

[00:27:39] the culture of LVMH is centered around creativity and innovation.

[00:27:43] That's one of the core values of the company that's really embedded.

[00:27:47] So on the one hand, this idea of constantly doing that,

[00:27:53] creating and innovating at every level across every function is embedded in the way

[00:27:58] that we work, and it's an expectation of the group.

[00:28:01] We are a very multi-billion dollar company,

[00:28:04] but we're still a very entrepreneurial organization.

[00:28:07] And that's part of the reason that we're a decentralized organization because

[00:28:11] we want to maintain independence, autonomy, empowerment with each and every business.

[00:28:16] So I think because of that structure,

[00:28:19] even in larger organizations, you'd be surprised at how flat the organizations can be.

[00:28:24] We're not we don't have a lot of bureaucracy and hierarchy.

[00:28:27] And I think that helps to not only cultivate creativity within those environments,

[00:28:33] within this unique teams, but also to allow creativity to really thrive.

[00:28:37] And I'm not it's not easy to do.

[00:28:40] It is certainly challenging.

[00:28:42] I think that there are probably people that would certainly feel like they

[00:28:45] don't have enough of a voice to be able to contribute to that.

[00:28:48] But it's it's something that we we are always trying to cultivate.

[00:28:53] And we have a number of tools that we've launched that hopefully can help people

[00:28:58] not only understand the importance of creativity, but bringing concrete tools

[00:29:03] to show you actually how do you take an idea from concept all the way through

[00:29:08] ideation, including selling or convincing somebody to buy it to or to

[00:29:14] support financially support or otherwise your idea.

[00:29:17] OK, I want to go down business acumen for half of a second.

[00:29:23] But before I go there,

[00:29:26] we're sort of talking about people can get emotional and speaking of emotions,

[00:29:32] you know, we're in North America, so the political environment is what it is.

[00:29:37] And we don't need to explain that to people.

[00:29:38] But there's things out by shirm to say, you know,

[00:29:43] 44 percent of people are burned out.

[00:29:45] Mackenzie says 50 plus percent of employees are disengaged.

[00:29:50] We just know that these human beings,

[00:29:53] not just work producing units, but human beings are stressed out on a number

[00:29:58] of levels. I know health and wellness is something that's important to you.

[00:30:03] How do you guys think about helping the human being who's

[00:30:08] doing the work kind of be their best self and what kind of benefits are the

[00:30:13] things which you guys be providing to people?

[00:30:16] Yeah, no. I mean, listen, I think everything that we read and see,

[00:30:20] I think we feel it, we hear from our employees,

[00:30:25] especially coming out of covid.

[00:30:26] I think that the toll that that year has taken on everybody has been,

[00:30:31] you know, extremely difficult and we're still dealing with the residual impact

[00:30:36] of that and the impact and the feeling, the the the the lexity of of every

[00:30:42] people still remember that experience and what they went through families.

[00:30:48] We did a benefit survey in 2022 just to get a sense of how our employees

[00:30:52] regarded our benefit, you know, what did they know about our benefits?

[00:30:56] We just sort of wanted to see how how how and what we could improve.

[00:31:00] And the number one request that we had was more support around mental health

[00:31:05] and well-being. And we sort of anticipated that, but not necessarily.

[00:31:09] We had already started implementing programs in 2020.

[00:31:13] We implemented a mental health first aid training program.

[00:31:16] We've continued to run that multiple times a year.

[00:31:19] It can we have a waiting list every time that we offer this program

[00:31:25] that the demand is huge for employees.

[00:31:27] And it's not of course, we're not training people to be mental health experts.

[00:31:30] What we're helping train you is to be able to identify when someone on your

[00:31:33] team or your leader here is in a crisis situation and really needs some additional

[00:31:37] support and then what do you do to provide that support?

[00:31:40] So that's one thing that we implemented in 2022.

[00:31:44] We launched Headspace, which of course is a meditation tool and access to therapy.

[00:31:49] We've launched that across the country.

[00:31:51] We just started working with Drive Global, which is Ariana Huffington's

[00:31:55] company, which is an amazing tool again, providing a variety of support

[00:31:59] to employees to support a variety of mental health and well-being topics.

[00:32:04] We also have launched, I work very closely with our head of health and benefits,

[00:32:08] of course, and we have a number of programs around financial well-being,

[00:32:13] additional legal support that we can offer to employees.

[00:32:16] Very low cost, providing legal support on a number of topics.

[00:32:21] It could be estate planning, adoption,

[00:32:24] purchasing a home for, again, really minimal cost to these employees.

[00:32:29] And we have a number of other programs that we want to offer to employees to,

[00:32:35] first of all, ensure that they know that this is a topic that we care about,

[00:32:39] that we want to make sure that we can support them in their work environment

[00:32:44] and even themselves and their families outside.

[00:32:46] We also have some amazing travel benefits that we've offered to all

[00:32:49] of our employees because we have corporate discounts in hotels and flights.

[00:32:54] And we've extended those corporate discounts to all of our employees and their

[00:32:57] families so that even when you're under personal time,

[00:33:00] you have some additional benefits offered by the group.

[00:33:03] And we, of course, encourage that personal time off.

[00:33:06] So I think that like a lot of companies,

[00:33:08] we're really trying to support our employees in as much of a 360 way as we can.

[00:33:15] And I think especially in organizations like ours that are very high performance,

[00:33:20] one of our values again is around excellence, having a culture of excellence,

[00:33:25] very demanding, highly, we believe our brands, our customers deserve that,

[00:33:30] our employees. So there again, more reason why we need to make sure that we have

[00:33:34] tools that can support our employees.

[00:33:38] And we're always open to bringing in additional tools based on the feedback

[00:33:43] that we hear from our employees.

[00:33:44] If we think it also corresponds to the value and

[00:33:47] the permission of really providing the best work environment that we possibly can

[00:33:54] for our employees.

[00:33:55] Wow, that's quite a portfolio of resources and tools that clearly

[00:34:01] make a commitment to that.

[00:34:03] I just want to touch very quickly.

[00:34:05] We were talking about like building the business case for something.

[00:34:10] I might be projecting here for a second so you can

[00:34:13] you can not go there with me.

[00:34:16] But the notion of financial acumen,

[00:34:20] in particular within the HR function before we press record,

[00:34:23] you were talking to your you're out with a bunch of CROs from really big companies and stuff.

[00:34:29] My observation is that

[00:34:32] kind of HR practitioners, not executives,

[00:34:35] but more deeper in the organization, often lack some financial acumen.

[00:34:42] Like what's actually on an income statement?

[00:34:44] What's actually on a balance sheet?

[00:34:46] How does the CFO see the business?

[00:34:49] So when you're trying to make the case for wellness programs,

[00:34:52] learning and development kinds of things,

[00:34:55] how have you personally kind of developed your own financial acumen

[00:35:00] and what advice would you give to an HR professional who might be listening today?

[00:35:06] I think that for me, I was probably a little bit fortunate again

[00:35:11] because I don't have a traditional HR background.

[00:35:14] And when you're a headhunter,

[00:35:16] you're it's an interesting role because it's a business role.

[00:35:19] You're responsible for generating revenue for your firm.

[00:35:22] You're doing that by building strong relationships,

[00:35:25] your ability to assess talent, to find the right fit.

[00:35:27] But one of the ways that you're able to

[00:35:34] basically win the search is because your ability to not only know the market

[00:35:39] and the talent, to really understand what the business challenges are that you're

[00:35:42] trying to solve for your client.

[00:35:43] So you spend a lot of time with HR, with the CEO, with sometimes the board

[00:35:48] talking about the business and the challenge.

[00:35:50] And I think that's where I was very immersed in the financial side,

[00:35:54] looking at the P&L, looking at all of the annual releases,

[00:35:59] listening to the earnings calls.

[00:36:01] That's where I probably was able to become more exposed

[00:36:05] to the financial side of the business so that I would be capable of having those

[00:36:09] conversations with my clients and really understanding and also being able

[00:36:13] to have those conversations, frankly, with candidates about the business.

[00:36:16] So I think that was sort of a little bit that certainly helped me.

[00:36:21] You know, we work very closely with the finance.

[00:36:24] Obviously, I work closely with our CFO.

[00:36:26] We work closely with the finance of all of our different brands.

[00:36:30] And so LBMH is a unique organization because on the one hand,

[00:36:34] we're extremely creative, all about innovation.

[00:36:37] But on the other hand, if you look at the background of a lot of our executives

[00:36:41] and especially in Paris, including our CEO, they come from an engineering

[00:36:45] background, very analytical, very data driven, very financially oriented.

[00:36:50] It's very, very rigorous in terms of data analytics and also creativity.

[00:36:55] In a way, we have many truly left brain, right brain type of people.

[00:37:00] So I think that it's sort of the expectation is that you're able to

[00:37:05] flex between both of those things.

[00:37:07] On HR, I agree with you, especially in our organization that's

[00:37:10] really talent focused.

[00:37:12] And again, it's more about knowing the talent, meeting the talent,

[00:37:15] spending time with the talent, being super connected,

[00:37:18] not just about sitting behind and looking at everything on paper

[00:37:23] and doing all of the sort of analysis.

[00:37:28] That said, we look at tons of KPIs that we monitor and track vis-a-vis

[00:37:33] what's happening within our talent in the US.

[00:37:36] So I would say from an analytical standpoint,

[00:37:38] we probably have HR that are fairly strong analytically because of the tools

[00:37:43] and the expectation.

[00:37:44] If you talk specifically about financial

[00:37:46] acumen, that's probably something that is an opportunity for us to further develop,

[00:37:52] especially when you go down in the organization.

[00:37:54] Because I don't even know now that you mentioned that I'm not sure how much

[00:37:58] visibility and access our early career professionals or sort of our mid

[00:38:03] managers would have to the finance teams, for example, or how they're working

[00:38:08] with the finance team to help support their business or their functions.

[00:38:12] But I do think that that's an important aspect for HR.

[00:38:17] Because the more that you can be conversant in all sort of all aspects of the business,

[00:38:22] the more legitimacy and credibility that you're going to have in terms of doing

[00:38:25] your role.

[00:38:26] Exactly.

[00:38:27] So you mentioned a couple of words and maybe we can bring something together here,

[00:38:31] which is talent and creativity.

[00:38:33] And I discovered you, I think it was Fortune, an interview that you gave with

[00:38:37] them on a talent development program that you guys are doing.

[00:38:43] I was just like, I have to talk to this slightly.

[00:38:45] This is so cool.

[00:38:46] So the Metia dexelons.

[00:38:48] Do you mind kind of describing what that program is, how it came to be?

[00:38:53] And then maybe some some lessons that appear listening to this might be

[00:39:00] able to transfer and apply to his or her business.

[00:39:04] Well, first of all, thank you for reading the article and thank you for

[00:39:08] acknowledging that I mean, it's something that we're extremely proud of.

[00:39:12] The program was launched.

[00:39:14] It's the Metia dexelons.

[00:39:15] We refer to it internally as the Emmy program and not just because all of us

[00:39:20] don't have the best French accent, but obviously easy to talk about the Emmy.

[00:39:24] And it was first launched in 2004 in France.

[00:39:27] Today we have about 2700 apprentices who have gone through this program or

[00:39:31] currently in the program around the world.

[00:39:33] And we launched the first portion of this in North America with Tiffany

[00:39:37] in 2020 and the idea behind it is again,

[00:39:42] if you look at our businesses, many of the products,

[00:39:46] the design, the creation, the manufacturer of products are done literally by people

[00:39:53] that are trained in certain crafts and Metia as we've heard of them.

[00:39:58] And this is the lifeblood of our business.

[00:40:01] Of course, there's technology in certain cases, but there are there are

[00:40:04] many roles where technology, we don't think technology will ever be able

[00:40:08] to do the role, the role, the way a human being does.

[00:40:11] The challenge with some of these roles is that, number one,

[00:40:14] people aren't aware, increasingly, they're not aware that these positions exist.

[00:40:19] And even if they are aware, it's not really clear how you would get a job

[00:40:22] as a leather maker or potentially a watchmaker or a jewelry maker or a nose

[00:40:28] in the perfume industry.

[00:40:30] So a lot of people, even if they have an interest, there's no real.

[00:40:35] You know, schools aren't necessarily preparing you for a career path in that.

[00:40:38] So we decided to build this program working with different schools that have

[00:40:43] an expertise in these different Metias around the world and working with the local

[00:40:48] governments and states to basically create these apprenticeship programs

[00:40:52] that would allow us to identify people that have the interests,

[00:40:55] that have the capability, that have maybe some similar type of experience

[00:40:59] that would lend itself well to that profession and then create a training

[00:41:03] program that puts them through the program, gives them the skills and hopefully a job.

[00:41:09] If they if they want the job at the end,

[00:41:11] if they want the job with us or even with another organization, because these are

[00:41:16] roles that of course we want to need, but as an industry as a whole,

[00:41:21] we want to need them.

[00:41:22] So it's been a really extraordinary program.

[00:41:26] You know, we always have

[00:41:29] it's amazing to see the number of applicants that we have for all of these

[00:41:34] different programs. Again, we have two going on now in the United States.

[00:41:38] One with Tiffany, we have two different cohorts and then we had one with Ted

[00:41:42] Fuller, which started earlier this year for watchmaking, which is another,

[00:41:47] believe it or not, a really a dying profession in art.

[00:41:51] And, you know, we have a number of new programs and initiatives that we're

[00:41:55] planning to launch in North America.

[00:41:57] So we're really excited just to end on your question regarding the learnings.

[00:42:03] Is it specific to the program or more broadly?

[00:42:06] Yeah, because I think that, you know,

[00:42:09] we talk a lot about skills based diversifying a talent pool, taking people from,

[00:42:14] you know, it's not just about your pedigree of like where did you go to school

[00:42:17] and how long you've been doing this, right?

[00:42:20] And you guys are very

[00:42:23] singular in, as you said, you know, a lot of this is handmade and always will be.

[00:42:28] That's just the nature of it, right?

[00:42:29] These are crafts.

[00:42:32] But but I think that that, you know,

[00:42:36] I think there's something like 700,000 cybersecurity jobs open right now.

[00:42:40] There's just not enough talent to fill these roles and or AI or data science.

[00:42:46] I mean, there's like lots of stuff.

[00:42:48] And I like how you said,

[00:42:50] you know, you've partnered with schools, you've partnered with local governments,

[00:42:54] right? So how can we kind of get existing resources and channel them towards what

[00:42:59] our needs are? And it seems to me that there would be transferability in that

[00:43:04] mindset. Yes.

[00:43:06] Other functions, other industries.

[00:43:09] I agree. I agree.

[00:43:10] And again, I think what is our learning is that,

[00:43:14] you know, you have to be we go into an open mind,

[00:43:17] the background of the participants of the apprentices, they're extremely diverse

[00:43:23] in terms of their experience versus virtually none of them have any experience

[00:43:28] in what we are, what we're training them in today.

[00:43:31] But there are some similarities, for example,

[00:43:34] one of the apprentices for the Tag Heuer program was a mechanic.

[00:43:38] And he's very funny because he said, you know, one of the things is he

[00:43:41] was tired of getting his hands dirty and he wants to work with his hands

[00:43:43] and use his hands. He was tired, you know, I wanted to I'm tired of getting them

[00:43:47] dirty. I think for us, the learning is, yes, it's important to work with the schools.

[00:43:51] It lends an additional level of credibility.

[00:43:54] We know we want things to be certified programs.

[00:43:57] We want these to be recognized by different constituents.

[00:44:00] So we really invest.

[00:44:02] I think that's the other learning.

[00:44:03] You really have to invest.

[00:44:05] They're not they're not inexpensive to run even in the short term.

[00:44:08] But for the long term, we really believe they pay off.

[00:44:11] I think being creative in terms of 700,000 cybersecurity positions,

[00:44:16] I'm sure there are people that would love to get in that profession.

[00:44:19] We have to think more broadly about what type of characteristics or again,

[00:44:24] skills should that or personality traits should that person

[00:44:29] have in order to be successful in that role.

[00:44:32] But really it's how do we provide the right level of training and discipline

[00:44:37] and mentorship. So the commitment on our side is very, very serious.

[00:44:41] I mean, it's a small cohort because it is costly because we want to make sure

[00:44:46] that they're successful.

[00:44:47] We want them to go through the program.

[00:44:50] And so I mean, I think you have to be all in.

[00:44:53] I think what I what I really appreciate about LVMH and whenever we do anything

[00:44:59] like the program or other initiatives that we've launched,

[00:45:02] we always incorporate the values of the group into the creation and execution of that.

[00:45:08] So we know we built this program using again, creativity, innovation.

[00:45:14] We set apart excellence in how we develop these talents, how we support them.

[00:45:20] It's very entrepreneurial.

[00:45:21] Again, people coming from all different backgrounds.

[00:45:23] It's a great development tool also for our internal people to mentor and to pass

[00:45:29] their they're so proud to be able to pass their skills on to another generation.

[00:45:34] And fundamentally, we're putting people at the front end because our business

[00:45:40] isn't going to exist if we do not have people that are able to develop these

[00:45:46] products, develop these experiences, all of our jobs are successful and all

[00:45:52] of our companies are successful because of people and their work.

[00:45:56] So, yeah, we think it's really something you have to prioritize and invest in.

[00:46:02] Yeah. And so I appreciate what you're saying, too, that that, yes,

[00:46:07] you're investing heavily in the schools and the programs and all that stuff.

[00:46:11] But the onboarding and the integrating of people into the organization.

[00:46:15] So it's great that we planted the seeds.

[00:46:18] Now how do we nurture the seeds?

[00:46:20] Exactly success.

[00:46:21] And then something else you just said that really resonates with me is this

[00:46:25] intergenerational dynamic and that mentorship is a two way street.

[00:46:32] I mean, yes, there's pain, kind of homage and respect for the artisan that is

[00:46:36] an expert in his or her craft.

[00:46:39] And so thank you.

[00:46:40] But there's also innovation and technology and other just life experiences

[00:46:47] that a younger generation brings to the party.

[00:46:51] I think about like, Findi by Rihanna,

[00:46:53] like I mean, she's coming from a completely different place,

[00:46:56] you know, artistically, right?

[00:46:59] That resonates with the really significant part of the of the culture that you guys

[00:47:03] would like to be appealing to.

[00:47:05] So I think I think that the point that you made that really resonates so is

[00:47:10] it's not enough to have programs.

[00:47:12] It's not enough to just hire them into the organization.

[00:47:14] It's how do we really integrate them?

[00:47:16] Exactly and support them through the entire journey.

[00:47:19] Yeah, exactly.

[00:47:20] So let's start to put a little bit of a bow on this.

[00:47:25] As you kind of think about you mentioned kind of

[00:47:30] covid and the pandemic is a touchstone, right?

[00:47:33] That you etched permanently on us.

[00:47:37] As you think about maybe the next five years,

[00:47:40] how is HR evolving and how are you kind of personally thinking about what do

[00:47:47] I need to be kind of building and upskilling yourself, if you will?

[00:47:51] And then more broadly, how does that sort of

[00:47:53] work its way across the organization?

[00:47:57] I mean, I definitely think that

[00:48:00] engaged employee engagement is one of the key topics for employers.

[00:48:05] And certainly those of us, not just an HR topic, by the way,

[00:48:07] but it's one of the key aspects that we're working on.

[00:48:11] We know that the moment of covid was also a reflection time for people

[00:48:16] to really sort of step back.

[00:48:18] And I heard it on one of your podcasts,

[00:48:20] somebody was saying that before covid, the frame was work and after covid,

[00:48:25] sort of the frame became about life.

[00:48:28] And I think there's some truth to that, right?

[00:48:31] And people began to reflect on, OK, wait, am I really enjoying the way I'm

[00:48:34] living my life and working and am I happy?

[00:48:37] And now I've seen that I can do things in a different way and still be

[00:48:41] very successful, productive.

[00:48:43] So it made people sort of reflect and question things.

[00:48:45] And when they started coming back to the office and things began to get

[00:48:50] sort of normal again, we've seen, we hear that employees have very different

[00:48:54] expectations in terms of what they're looking for from an employer.

[00:48:57] And I don't think that that is going to revert back to the pre covid way.

[00:49:02] So as an organization, we have to continue to be the same way we are

[00:49:06] thinking about our brands.

[00:49:07] It's the same thing.

[00:49:09] How do we anticipate what employees need?

[00:49:12] How can we make sure that we're supporting employees?

[00:49:15] So that they're highly engaged, passionate, curious and want to continue

[00:49:20] to come in and deliver their very best for us for now and the future.

[00:49:26] So employee engagement remains a really critical topic.

[00:49:29] I think ways of working is also changing dramatically.

[00:49:33] It's going to continue to evolve the integration of more and more technology.

[00:49:38] At what point is technology additive?

[00:49:41] At what point does it sort of become?

[00:49:44] Does it diminish aspects of the culture of creativity?

[00:49:47] How do you think about what is the work?

[00:49:50] Is it is it totally hybrid?

[00:49:52] Is it remote? Is it depend on the function?

[00:49:54] So I think we really have to figure out how what do we want to create as a culture,

[00:49:59] as a work environment and also hearing from the employees.

[00:50:03] So for me, we talk a lot about it's being

[00:50:06] a talent-centric organization and that's something important to us.

[00:50:09] But I think it's really about a relationship.

[00:50:12] OK, this is an important relationship between the employer and the employee.

[00:50:15] And how do we make sure that we're maximizing that for both parties so

[00:50:19] that everyone can thrive and be successful and feel that they're doing

[00:50:25] purposeful work together, let's say, and also driving the business?

[00:50:29] So I think those are things that I'm really focused on in terms of how can

[00:50:34] I sort of get ahead and make sure that we're not reacting to what's happening.

[00:50:40] But yet we're kind of co-creating with our employees the future of what we want to be.

[00:50:45] That's that's my hope that we can do that.

[00:50:48] There'll be no.

[00:50:48] I think that I love that.

[00:50:50] And it certainly is in keeping with, as you said, sort of the values

[00:50:53] of the organization of I love that co-creating.

[00:50:58] How do we co-create and not just unilaterally crammed down?

[00:51:02] This is what it's going to be.

[00:51:04] On to one of my all time favorite questions that I'd love to ask.

[00:51:07] If you could give advice to 25 year old Gina,

[00:51:11] what would it be with the benefit of hindsight?

[00:51:15] I think, again,

[00:51:18] I guess I was thinking about this last night, maybe this is a strange answer.

[00:51:23] I think in our career, you know, especially early in your career,

[00:51:27] you hope that you're getting feedback, right?

[00:51:29] Feedback, that's positive feedback, that's constructive feedback.

[00:51:32] Sometimes the feedback is not always presented in the right way.

[00:51:37] I can definitely experience that.

[00:51:41] I think that even feedback, unless it's, you know, mean or not presented,

[00:51:47] I mean, your very personal attack,

[00:51:50] it's such a gift.

[00:51:51] And even if I think about some of the times when I received very harsh

[00:51:55] feedback,

[00:51:57] even some of those moments, the feedback was probably accurate.

[00:52:01] It was helpful.

[00:52:03] And

[00:52:05] for me, I was always like trying to, I wanted to improve.

[00:52:10] I wanted to do better.

[00:52:11] So even allowing ourselves to or even allowing myself back then to go through

[00:52:18] those difficult times and to really allow myself to even learn,

[00:52:23] even when it feels unfair sometimes or it feels difficult to allow myself

[00:52:29] to push through that moment and see what can I learn?

[00:52:32] What can I take out of that?

[00:52:33] That's going to make me be better.

[00:52:35] And I think earlier in our career, it's really it's very it's hard to do that.

[00:52:40] You know, you're building your confidence or not totally secure.

[00:52:44] But I think it's I think it's and we wish that everybody knew how to deliver

[00:52:47] feedback in the right way, but they don't.

[00:52:50] But I still look at some of those some of those hardest conversations.

[00:52:53] I still reflect back on them and grateful that people shared those

[00:52:57] those that feedback with me, even if it was not so pleasant maybe to go through.

[00:53:03] I don't know if that makes sense, what I'm trying to say.

[00:53:06] But just being

[00:53:08] no, it does because as a former boss of mine and great friend, feedback is a gift.

[00:53:16] Now, to your point, there are ways to deliver feedback that allow it to be

[00:53:21] received, maybe a little bit better and not hurt somebody along the way.

[00:53:26] But, you know, as somebody who's personally kind of defensive,

[00:53:31] like feedback is hard.

[00:53:33] Right. And you talked about humility earlier.

[00:53:36] I mean, right? That really is the canvas for feedback,

[00:53:38] because I have to have enough humility to accept it.

[00:53:42] You know, and not all feedback has equal weight.

[00:53:46] Right.

[00:53:47] But at the same time, you're being humble enough to say,

[00:53:51] you know, she had a good point that doesn't feel very good in the moment.

[00:53:54] Yeah.

[00:53:55] But I'm going to be better for it.

[00:53:57] Exactly. Or what can I, you know, what can I learn from that?

[00:54:00] OK, that wasn't exactly the best experience.

[00:54:03] But what can I learn from that?

[00:54:04] What can I take from that that's going to help me improve and be better and stronger?

[00:54:10] And, you know, I think that I think if I had had a little bit more

[00:54:15] confidence or belief in myself, maybe some of those moments wouldn't have been

[00:54:20] as hard. You know, I definitely had some moments where I was like calling

[00:54:23] my mom crying, you know, like all the but but on the other hand,

[00:54:27] I tried and maybe I could have done even more to still say what can I learn from

[00:54:32] that experience to just it's not about always improving for.

[00:54:37] I think sometimes people focus on oh, that's going to be good for the company.

[00:54:40] But feedback is also for us individually.

[00:54:44] It's like at the end of the day,

[00:54:45] I want to be the best person that I can be so that I feel proud about

[00:54:48] what I've achieved, what I've accomplished for me.

[00:54:51] But I've that makes me feel strong and powered as a person,

[00:54:56] regardless of the image, right?

[00:54:58] I feel I want to be proud of that.

[00:55:00] And I think that's really important.

[00:55:01] All of this you're doing for you at the end of the day, not necessarily for

[00:55:06] your company, for your boss.

[00:55:07] Ultimately, it comes down to doing it for yourself.

[00:55:12] It's you know, as I reflected on some of the qualities that you identified

[00:55:16] earlier in our conversation around curiosity, humility and agility.

[00:55:21] I'm curious, I want to continue to learn, right?

[00:55:26] Humble enough to accept the feedback, agile enough to do something with it.

[00:55:31] Yes. Right.

[00:55:32] So I think that kind of puts up all in a nice little package.

[00:55:36] Maybe a little light blue box about that.

[00:55:38] Right. Yeah, exactly.

[00:55:40] Is there anything that we didn't talk about as we kind of bring this to a close

[00:55:44] that just any final thought or just anything that you wanted to make sure that

[00:55:48] that we discussed or you shared?

[00:55:51] I mean, I guess I would just say that I think, you know,

[00:55:56] that the world is as we mentioned, we don't have to go into it.

[00:56:00] Sort of a it's a challenging moment.

[00:56:02] I think it's also a moment for us to all step up and

[00:56:07] think about not only what we're experiencing, but, you know,

[00:56:12] what other people in our orbit are experiencing.

[00:56:16] You know, I think maybe because I work in HR, I can never go anywhere without thinking

[00:56:20] about, oh, I wonder how that person feels about their job, like a monitor,

[00:56:26] observing the interaction with customers or employees.

[00:56:29] And I think sometimes I just feel like we, especially lately,

[00:56:35] we don't sometimes don't even have enough compassion about thinking about

[00:56:38] the way that that person is like showing up for their work.

[00:56:42] I mean, I guess I just feel like we have to we have to start to be the ones,

[00:56:48] you know, all of us as human beings that try to bring a little bit more humanity

[00:56:54] and kindness into our everyday interactions because I think everybody is really

[00:57:00] tired, burnt out, all the things that we've said this is applying everywhere.

[00:57:04] And so how can, you know, how can each of us try to bring a little bit of improvement

[00:57:09] to that in the interactions that we have with our employees, with our customers,

[00:57:14] with people that we meet on the street and subway at the airport?

[00:57:18] I think that's that's what we're trying to do as an organization with our

[00:57:22] people and customers.

[00:57:23] And so maybe that's how I would I would leave.

[00:57:26] I think we all can really play an important role in

[00:57:31] lifting the mood, so to speak.

[00:57:33] But Gene, LVMH is very lucky to have you there.

[00:57:37] And it's clear to me that these are intrinsic things with you.

[00:57:43] And this is who you are as a human.

[00:57:45] And you've got a lot of influence, which is awesome to be a force for good.

[00:57:50] So I just appreciate you taking some time today.

[00:57:53] It's so nice kind of unpacking your story a little bit and some of your learning.

[00:57:57] So it's been great to have you.

[00:57:59] Thank you. Thank you.

[00:58:00] It was really a pleasure for me.

[00:58:01] I enjoyed meeting you, Bob, and and love listening to your podcast.

[00:58:05] And I just feel so honored to be on one of your projects.

[00:58:08] So thank you for inviting me.

[00:58:10] Well, thank you everybody with listeners and viewers.

[00:58:13] Thank you so much for taking a few minutes out of your day.

[00:58:15] We hope that you found this fun and interesting.

[00:58:18] I know I did and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

[00:58:21] So thanks, everyone, and we'll see you next time.

[00:58:24] So if you'll hang on for just a second.